Am I being rude?

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So I'm partnered up with a female medical student who doesn't know the difference between a touchdown and a slam dunk. The problem is that when our attending is not discussing the various cases, he and I talk exclusively about football.

Today, my partner pulled me aside and REQUESTED that I stopped talking about sports with the attending because she felt left out of the conversation! She said it was rude and she felt that it might effect her grade on evaluations if she couldn't contribute to a meaningful conversation outside of medicine. She kept on talking about how sports were boring and irrelevant to today's society and that more focus should be spent on our clinical education....blah blah blah. Something tells me, if our attending was a chick she would yap about how great last night's episode of Glee was or something.

Okay, I know that Teebow starting for the Bronchos isn't like important for the country, or how D rose new shoe commercial is flat out awesome...but it is what guys talk about. sorry if my attending agrees.

 

[fiznat]

Requested or demanded? I feel like if she was nice about it, and I liked her, I would consider helping her out. If she is a B in any way, shape, or form, then no. Like you said-- this could have easily swung in her favor also, and you're under no obligation to tailor your conversation to her needs.

 

[2012mdc]

Just be yourself and continue the good rapport with the attending. Just tell her to bring up something that she thinks the attending would be interested in other than sports.

If she was so concerned about not getting enough clinical education then she would go read up on topics and journal articles and ask informed questions about them and prompt a discussion.

She basically told you "you and the attending are getting along too well, no fair!"

 

[FutureInternist]

Tell her to google that $%&# !! 🙂

 

[Isoprop]

I'm a guy. I'm not into sports. I've learned to deal with it. I mean you can try to be more 'inclusive' in your conversations if it's the three of you because it's a little awkward when someone has nothing to contribute to a conversation. But in the end, I think it's her damn problem that you and the attending are getting along so well.

I would approach her and say, "I am sorry that you feel left out or excluded in our conversations. I will try to let you get along with the attending too, but I can't help it if the attending brings up sports and I have something to say."

 

[paul411]

If she is a B in any way, shape, or form, then no.

Minimum acceptable cup size: C

😛

 

[phltz]

So I'm partnered up with a female medical student who doesn't know the difference between a touchdown and a slam dunk. The problem is that when our attending is not discussing the various cases, he and I talk exclusively about football.

Today, my partner pulled me aside and REQUESTED that I stopped talking about sports with the attending because she felt left out of the conversation! She said it was rude and she felt that it might effect her grade on evaluations if she couldn't contribute to a meaningful conversation outside of medicine. She kept on talking about how sports were boring and irrelevant to today's society and that more focus should be spent on our clinical education....blah blah blah. Something tells me, if our attending was a chick she would yap about how great last night's episode of Glee was or something.

Okay, I know that Teebow starting for the Bronchos isn't like important for the country, or how D rose new shoe commercial is flat out awesome...but it is what guys talk about. sorry if my attending agrees.

Yeah, I'd say you're being kind of rude. You're within your rights to be rude, and if you want to stick to your guns, no one can force you to be polite. But it is, in fact, rude to consistently have conversations that are going to exclude one of the participants. Cut her some slack, try to steer to conversation in a different direction once in a while.

 

[CatFactorial]

How asinine. I'd ignore the request.

 

[p1acebo]

No. Your not being rude, she is being annoying. Ignore her.

 

[crprep23]

Yeah, I'd say you're being kind of rude. You're within your rights to be rude, and if you want to stick to your guns, no one can force you to be polite. But it is, in fact, rude to consistently have conversations that are going to exclude one of the participants. Cut her some slack, try to steer to conversation in a different direction once in a while.

Apparently she's on SDN

 

[Valadi]

I've been on rotations where girls talked with the attendings about girl-things. Never found it a problem to be able to interject with, "So what is shellac'ing your nails, anyway?"* and making myself included.

You'll probably win points with both people, though, if next time the attending brings up sports you cue her in with, "So, med student, did you play any sports growing up?" or something similar..

*Actual conversation..

 

[AlexMorph]

Yeah, I'd say you're being kind of rude. You're within your rights to be rude, and if you want to stick to your guns, no one can force you to be polite. But it is, in fact, rude to consistently have conversations that are going to exclude one of the participants. Cut her some slack, try to steer to conversation in a different direction once in a while.

Uh, no. It's not the OP's problem that this other student can't contribute to a conversation he is having with the attending. OP, talk about whatever the heck you want. If this other student is so concerned about her grade, let her do something about it.

Unless a person is totally socially inept, they should be able to come up with something to talk to an attending about that is not medicine.

 

[Mizoodles]

I'm a guy. I'm not into sports."

Lolz.

 

[ScubaStarved]

x

 

[AlexMorph]

Attending brings up topic: run with it provided it doesn't prolong your residents' day.

You find yourself repeatedly steering topic to football during work time: consider the timing and place. I hope you laughed in your colleague's face when she brought up the grading implications, but it's at least a little inappropriate for a guest on a team to set the topic of conversation if not all members can participate. That said, when you're the attending, feel free to talk about sports 24/7. Heck, at the attending level, my experience has been that they have few boundaries on topics they can discuss with trainees: colonoscopies, divorce settlement(s), antiquated views on women in the workplace, and so on are all fair game.

I had a similar experience: OB attending and I would discuss 'good' television during downtime on the L&D floor. Second time it happened, I was on the receiving end of evil eyes from the more "special" residents (2/3 of the room) who were more of the Say Yes to the Dress and Kardashian persuasion. Since he initiated the convos and the residents were sub-par humans with no interest in teaching, I continued to run with it despite knowing it would cost me. Got specifically docked for this in my evals from one resident despite the conversations having no impact on patient care and not distracting from useful/educational discussion. Probably did not help that the attending was male, young-ish, objectively good looking, and the residents fawned over him at all times. Still, was worth it for the chance to return their passive-aggression and for the looks on their faces. Would repeat.

People who watch the Kardashians need to be slapped.

 

[2012mdc]

Lolz.

I did the same thing and this 😕

 

[searun]

People who watch the Kardashians need to be slapped.

Agreed. People who are famous for being famous and who are devoid of any talent are annoying but less annoying than the people who find them fascinating. This goes for Paris Hilton fans too. I hate celebrity culture.

 

[DrMidlife]

Today, my partner pulled me aside and REQUESTED that I stopped talking about sports with the attending because she felt left out of the conversation! She said it was rude and she felt that it might effect her grade on evaluations if she couldn't contribute to a meaningful conversation outside of medicine.

This person is trying to get you to take responsibility for her lack of social graces. Also a total lack of imagination.

I can think of at least 100 ways to participate in, contribute to, or divert a conversation, without being an annoying mosquito of a suckup. She needs to figure out that such is possible, and start learning.

Best of luck to you.

 

[bioteach]

She should get over it. I did a sports medicine rotation where every doc is a jock or ex-jock and I know NOTHING about sports. Literally the only conversations between the residents and attendings were about a sport of some type. High school, college, professional, didn't matter. Sure, contributing to conversations was difficult...but I also know how to ask questions and initiate conversations myself. You (and she) are not going to have a rapport with every attending you encounter. I'd say you should take advantage of this one...she can worry about finding one she gets along with better during a future rotation.

 

[sirenomelia]

Just because she complained you should feed her some ridiculous non-sense/ black pearls to her to "help" her inclusion into the conversation- like "isn't Lebron having a great season" or "have you ever seen a team turn it around and come on strong at the end like the Red Sox." The look on the attendings face would be priceless.

 

[fiznat]

"have you ever seen a team turn it around and come on strong at the end like the Red Sox."

lol that was hurtful....

 

[paintballdoc]

Ouch, Sirenomelia. That would be COLD. Funny as hell, but cold.

She needs to grow-up. You cannot dictate what other people talk about as long as it is not offensive. Discussing her bra size, etc is a no-no. On the other hand, sports allows a bridge to be crossed. Run with it.

If you want to be nice, let her know when a game is on, such as the World Series game. Tell her to pay attention to one good play and come ready to talk about it. Then she would feel included.

Hell, I have to admit. I rarely know what the hell people are talking about when it comes to sports. I have never enjoyed watching people play but myself, I am very good at basketball and sports in general. So people talk to me about them so I know I have to watch a few plays to not look like an idiot. I have learned to adapt.

 

[DrYoda]

You're fine. Your classmate on the other hand is being a weirdo.

 

[Guillemot]

In response to the OP: Its fine to talk about sports, but try to be polite and include her in the convo if possible. You wont always be able to include her though. O well.

 

[b-real]

So I'm partnered up with a female medical student who doesn't know the difference between a touchdown and a slam dunk. The problem is that when our attending is not discussing the various cases, he and I talk exclusively about football.

Today, my partner pulled me aside and REQUESTED that I stopped talking about sports with the attending because she felt left out of the conversation! She said it was rude and she felt that it might effect her grade on evaluations if she couldn't contribute to a meaningful conversation outside of medicine. She kept on talking about how sports were boring and irrelevant to today's society and that more focus should be spent on our clinical education....blah blah blah. Something tells me, if our attending was a chick she would yap about how great last night's episode of Glee was or something.

Okay, I know that Teebow starting for the Bronchos isn't like important for the country, or how D rose new shoe commercial is flat out awesome...but it is what guys talk about. sorry if my attending agrees.

This is reason enough to ignore her judgmental, pretentious a**. She's threatened and wants a more level playing field because you have the advantage. The real world (and even the fake world inside of a hospital) doesn't work that way.

 

[officedepot]

I'm a guy and watch sports. However I think it is a little rude to consistently not involve someone in a convo. When it happens to me about whatever I think it's rude so I try very hard to be considerate of others.

This med student will be your future colleague so don't forget that.

But yeah dude you're being lame no matter how hot the girl is or how neurotic she is about being left out. It's not your fault if the attending brings it up but really try to incorporate everyone in the convo.


this story also highlights why evals for grades suck. People get so obsessed with them you can't have a good time ever or just try to learn something even from a field you dislike.

 

[tiedyeddog]

3rd year does bring out the worst in people....

 

[Dr Love]

She explicitly brought this up. Whether or not she is right, if you continue the same as before she will hold a grudge against you and that will be a problem down the road.

I do think it is a bit rude to have a conversation about something in a group of three when one member has nothing at all to contribute. If it was two girls talking about how hot McDreamy is you would think it was weird, right?

 

[LoveandHate]

No you're not being rude. This is absolutely ridiculous that she has brought this up.

 

[2012mdc]

She explicitly brought this up. Whether or not she is right, if you continue the same as before she will hold a grudge against you and that will be a problem down the road.

I do think it is a bit rude to have a conversation about something in a group of three when one member has nothing at all to contribute. If it was two girls talking about how hot McDreamy is you would think it was weird, right?

No, I would chalk it up to normal female behavior.

I wouldn't be able to carry an entire convo about Grey's Anatomy but I would be able to interject at times. IMO one should be aware of anything that's very popular and be able to at least say something about it. I don't watch stuff like Real Housewives but I at least know enough not to stay silent.

Fact is the girl is upset they are talking about a subject she doesn't like and instead of proactively bringing up other subjects, she is pouting and complaining to a fellow student.

 

[MediCynical]

Lolz.

I did the same thing and this 😕

lol, OK. I'm also a guy not into sports, although I do lift and dress very much like an athlete which often gets me into trouble when people talk about the latest crap on ESPN. I think sports are a complete and utter waste of time and money, but they seem to keep the masses happy/distracted so who am I to complain. Herp derp let's pay some guy $30 million dollars to run around with a ball in front of 50,000 people. Yes I know that it takes lots of dedication, skill, & practice, but the reality of it is ludicrous.

Back to the main point of the thread: The fact that two people share a common interest doesn't mean they're rude, but continuously leaving someone to be the conversational 3rd wheel is most definitely rude on both of their parts. If I were you, OP, I'd at least put some effort into extending conversations beyond your shared interest in sports. However, even though I'd be frustrated in the position of OP's classmate, I would do my best to engage the attending in another topic of conversation. This isn't OP's fault, but he does have some control over his classmate's ability to forge a relationship with the attending.

 

[CaptainSSO]

lol, OK. I'm also a guy not into sports, although I do lift and dress very much like an athlete which often gets me into trouble when people talk about the latest crap on ESPN. I think sports are a complete and utter waste of time and money, but they seem to keep the masses happy/distracted so who am I to complain. Herp derp let's pay some guy $30 million dollars to run around with a ball in front of 50,000 people. Yes I know that it takes lots of dedication, skill, & practice, but the reality of it is ludicrous.

.

Your logic is kind of dumb here. Using your same reasoning, I could say music, movies, tv shows, novels, etc.. are all utter wastes of time and money. Clearly they aren't. Recreation is what makes life worth living.

 

[phltz]

Your logic is kind of dumb here. Using your same reasoning, I could say music, movies, tv shows, novels, etc.. are all utter wastes of time and money. Clearly they aren't. Recreation is what makes life worth living.

There's a big difference between recreating, and watching someone else recreate. I think it'd be better if people spent less time watching sports on TV, and spent more time actually playing some sort of sport. Drama is meant to be watched - its whole existence presupposes and audience. Sports are meant to be played.

 

[Dral]

If she said it was rude then it sounds to me that it probably wasn't the most pleasant request.

Seriously!? She thinks it's going to affect her grade? It very well might, but TS. She can deal. It's not your responsibility to help her come up with things to talk about.

If she was sociable enough to get into medical school, then she should be able to strike up her own conversation...well, we all know that's not true based on knowing fellow classmates.

Anyway, what happens when the person interviewing her for residency brings up something she knows little about?

Keep talking sports. It's rude of her to make you change what you talk about because you'll probably enjoy your time on the rotation less.

 

[sunset823]

so as a girl who DOES like sports (I only keep up with college football, but I'm educated enough about other stuff that I can contribute to the convo, and hell, I got third place in my class's March Madness pool last year), and doesn't give a damn about ostensibly girly stuff (though my mom is girly, so I watch stuff like Project Runway and Kardashians when I'm at home and feel like killing brain cells), I'm on the OP's side here. First of all the girl is a gunner cuz she's so worried about her evals, which automatically turns me off. I'm in M3 now, and I work hard so that my attendings like me, but I don't sweat the small stuff. You're there to learn, not to kiss ass. I don't usually have an opportunity for small talk, but if something comes up I don't know about, I'll ask questions and get into the conversation. She just wants things her way, and that's selfish. If she really doesn't like the topic, it's up to her to change it.

So in summary, stay strong, OP.

 

[45408]

I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

[Postal]

She kept on talking about how sports were boring and irrelevant to today's society and that more focus should be spent on our clinical education....blah blah blah. Something tells me, if our attending was a chick she would yap about how great last night's episode of Glee was or something.

I think you're being a little rude. I think it's in bad taste to repeatedly talk about things that exclude a third party during long conversations in which the third party is kind of just stuck there listening to you two.
But that part that she said right there just makes her sound whiny. She shouldn't be asking you to stop talking about things you have in common with the attending. She should interject with another topic. That's what I would do anyway....

 

[nvnme]

There's a big difference between recreating, and watching someone else recreate. I think it'd be better if people spent less time watching sports on TV, and spent more time actually playing some sort of sport. Drama is meant to be watched - its whole existence presupposes and audience. Sports are meant to be played.

People watch sports for that exact reason. There's nothing wrong with watching sports for entertainment, and the notion that you should only play them is laughable to say the least. Athletics being played at the highest level possible is amazing to observe. I'm not sure of your age, but if you've ever seen Michael Jordan at his peak and you're uncertain as to how one could enjoy watching someone perform a profound mastery of their sport then I'm not sure of what to say.

 

[isoquin]

I'm also not a sports fan, but that doesn't really change my patient interactions or presentations. It is always more desirable to engage in interesting conversation with your attendings, but inability to talk sports should not negatively affect her grade. I agree with others. Try to be inclusive, try to be helpful, but don't start acting shut-off to casual conversation as a result, because that would make you look weird.

 

[shadowfox87]

meh, you'll always run into people with different interests. If that happened to me, I'd find a way to intervene in the conversation even if I'm not familiar with the subject matter. If I can't intervene, then oh well, I don't want to pretend to be interested in the same thing just to suck up to the attending.

 

[Morsetlis]

People watch sports for that exact reason. There's nothing wrong with watching sports for entertainment, and the notion that you should only play them is laughable to say the least. Athletics being played at the highest level possible is amazing to observe. I'm not sure of your age, but if you've ever seen Michael Jordan at his peak and you're uncertain as to how one could enjoy watching someone perform a profound mastery of their sport then I'm not sure of what to say.

I could say the same thing about you being unable to appreciate World of Warcraft and StarCraft 2 tournaments.

On an evolutionary basis, being awesome at bball and being awesome at mashing buttons give you the same advantage at running away from / killing saber-toothed tigers: none.

It's an idiosyncracy that North Americans think the rest of the world shares. How many people in Vietnam do you think honestly cares about basketball or is even able to identify a single basketball star besides Michael Jordan? Just because most people around you appreciate something doesn't mean that the rest of the world (or even the rest of your own country, county, city, town, or hamlet) does.

Note: I play tennis and hockey, and I hate any sport involving a ball bigger than a grapefruit

 

[nvnme]

I could say the same thing about you being unable to appreciate World of Warcraft and StarCraft 2 tournaments.

On an evolutionary basis, being awesome at bball and being awesome at mashing buttons give you the same advantage at running away from / killing saber-toothed tigers: none.

It's an idiosyncracy that North Americans think the rest of the world shares. How many people in Vietnam do you think honestly cares about basketball or is even able to identify a single basketball star besides Michael Jordan? Just because most people around you appreciate something doesn't mean that the rest of the world (or even the rest of your own country, county, city, town, or hamlet) does.

Note: I play tennis and hockey, and I hate any sport involving a ball bigger than a grapefruit

My not being able to appreciate a World of Warcraft tournament would have little to do with me not understanding how one could actually enjoy observing it. As for the bold, considering they(Vietnam) have had their own national team, and routinely participated in FIBA and other international competitions, I'm fairly certain that there is more than a few individuals who are aware of North American athletes..basketball, or otherwise.

Given that athletics such as basketball may not be as big in Vietnam, I could easily throw out various of countries that are more receptive to North American athletes than we are. Athletics are, for the most part, appreciated worldwide, and with good reason. They're entertaining. Some disagree, and that doesn't make them wrong, but it's not something that can only be appreciated through the physical act of playing them.

 

[phltz]

Given that athletics such as basketball may not be as big in Vietnam, I could easily throw out various of countries that are more receptive to North American athletes than we are. Athletics are, for the most part, appreciated worldwide, and with good reason. They're entertaining. Some disagree, and that doesn't make them wrong, but it's not something that can only be appreciated through the physical act of playing them.

No one is saying athletics should only be played and never watched. But I think the ratio of how much Americans watch athletics vs. how much they actually ever play is tilted way high. It'd be greatly to our benefit to play a bit more and watch a bit less.

 

[eli20]

I think the bigger issue at hand is the ridiculous grading policies (or lack there of) in rotations.

Is it rude? Probably not in 21st century America. According to like the "rules of etiquette"? It probably is. You could be helpful if she was nice about it.

 

[nvnme]

No one is saying athletics should only be played and never watched. But I think the ratio of how much Americans watch athletics vs. how much they actually ever play is tilted way high. It'd be greatly to our benefit to play a bit more and watch a bit less.

Given the state of our nations health(or lack of), I agree.