Am I being too ambitious on my timeline?

[kestrel]

Hi all-
I'm new to SDN networks and happy to join the community of non-traditional applicants! I came up with a plan, and am hoping to get some honest feedback.

I graduated from UG in 2003 in Aero Engineering, and am now about to finish my Ph.D in Mech Engineering (next month hopefully, latest March). Took an EMT course on whim about 5 years ago, and ended up loving it. Since then, I've been an instructor for that EMT program, as well as a volunteer EMT (so about 4 years now), and as I did that, I realized I actually like medicine, and I just felt there were so many more opportunities to do things I would love than in my PhD topic of combustion science.

My goal is to apply for entry in 2012, so the question is, is my plan too ambitious?

I think the primary things that stand in my way are the MCATs and the pre-reqs. The pre-reqs I think I need are 2 sems of chem, 2 sems of o-chem, 2 sems of bio, 1 sem of biochem, and the associated labs.

Timeline-wise, I plan to start taking classes at San Jose State on an open enrollment basis starting this coming semester, taking 2 classes and a lab every semester. I would take the chem, o-chem, and bio classes first, and leave the biochem for last since not all schools require it. I am able to devote myself to classes full time if I must after defending, though I am hopeful I'll be able to do some research on a part-time basis.

As far as the MCAT, I was planning on enrolling in one of those Princeton Review classes in February and shoot to take the test in June. In the meantime, I would begin my applications in May.

Some ancillary questions:
- Is there a significant disadvantage to taking the pre-req's while applying (assuming a reasonable MCAT score)? My UG GPA is 3.95, Master's GPA is 4.0, and in Ph.D classes I much got A's except for the one B- in graduate level physical chemistry, so IMHO I have a pretty good record with science coursework, but I have no past bio coursework.

- I minored in physics and math in UG, so I hoped that would take care of those requirements. However, for math, I took the second year calculus courses (multivariable calculus and diff-eq) and AP'd out of the first year stuff. Similarly, in physics I took the 1st semester (mechanics), AP'd out of 2nd semester (E&M), and took the third semester (light and optics) with lab. Are there issues for taking out of sequence courses?

Sorry for the long post, I'm a bit anxious about the whole process. Thanks in advance for your advice!

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[NuttyEngDude]

seems just fine to me. just get the volunteering and shadowing in. i'm jealous of the gpa

edit: wait you mean you will be submitting your applications in 2012 right? not planning to start med school in 2012..

 

[Scottish Chap]

\

Some ancillary questions:
- Is there a significant disadvantage to taking the pre-req's while applying (assuming a reasonable MCAT score)? My UG GPA is 3.95, Master's GPA is 4.0, and in Ph.D classes I much got A's except for the one B- in graduate level physical chemistry, so IMHO I have a pretty good record with science coursework, but I have no past bio coursework.

- I minored in physics and math in UG, so I hoped that would take care of those requirements. However, for math, I took the second year calculus courses (multivariable calculus and diff-eq) and AP'd out of the first year stuff. Similarly, in physics I took the 1st semester (mechanics), AP'd out of 2nd semester (E&M), and took the third semester (light and optics) with lab. Are there issues for taking out of sequence courses?

Sorry for the long post, I'm a bit anxious about the whole process. Thanks in advance for your advice!

Welcome.

Do not take the MCAT until all the pre-req's are done. This is a massive disadvantage. I took the MCAT without physics I or II so I know. Schools only want the grades before matriculation into medical school, so it does not matter to them. Medical schools don't care so much about aptitude for life sciences as they do for smart people. Your grades show you are a very smart person. Chemistry is arguably the most important subject, however.

Your math sequence and AP physics grades should be fine. Most medical schools don't care about calculus either. With your background, I think it's clear you can handle numerical data!

You don't need biochemistry (a small number of medical schools do ask for it so check MSAR if you are dying to attend one of those). College biochemistry is not helpful for medical school either.

You have a great UG GPA. I predict you'll gain admission. The graduate GPAs won't matter to medical schools other than telling them you 'bloomed where you were planted'. A much more compelling issue will be explaining your jump from PhD to MD (especially a PhD program that arguably has little to do with medicine). This is an issue I faced, as did other PhD-to-MD applicants here. Have a good answer and a strong essay.

Good luck!
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Resident, last year.

 

[Eik Ooc]

The pre-reqs I think I need are 2 sems of chem, 2 sems of o-chem, 2 sems of bio, 1 sem of biochem, and the associated labs.

Timeline-wise, I plan to start taking classes at San Jose State on an open enrollment basis starting this coming semester, taking 2 classes and a lab every semester. I would take the chem, o-chem, and bio classes first, and leave the biochem for last since not all schools require it. I am able to devote myself to classes full time if I must after defending, though I am hopeful I'll be able to do some research on a part-time basis.

As far as the MCAT, I was planning on enrolling in one of those Princeton Review classes in February and shoot to take the test in June. In the meantime, I would begin my applications in May.

Woah...

You're planning to take the MCAT before taking Bio 2, Chem 2, or any OChem. You have no prior academic exposure to biology, chemistry, or organic chemistry. You're going to master 2 semesters of biology, 2 semesters of chemistry and 2 semesters of organic chemistry in just three months?

That's intense. Well...if your practice exams are poor you can always reschedule your MCAT exam date.

 

[kestrel]

seems just fine to me. just get the volunteering and shadowing in. i'm jealous of the gpa

edit: wait you mean you will be submitting your applications in 2012 right? not planning to start med school in 2012..

No, hoping to start in 2012. Hence the anxiety about being ambitious

Does being a volunteer EMT not count as volunteering?

Welcome.

Do not take the MCAT until all the pre-req's are done. This is a massive disadvantage. I took the MCAT without physics I or II so I know. Schools only want the grades before matriculation into medical school, so it does not matter to them. Medical schools don't care so much about aptitude for life sciences as they do for smart people. Your grades show you are a very smart person. Chemistry is arguably the most important subject, however.

Your math sequence and AP physics grades should be fine. Most medical schools don't care about calculus either. With your background, I think it's clear you can handle numerical data!

You don't need biochemistry (a small number of medical schools do ask for it so check MSAR if you are dying to attend one of those). College biochemistry is not helpful for medical school either.

You have a great UG GPA. I predict you'll gain admission. The graduate GPAs won't matter to medical schools other than telling them you 'bloomed where you were planted'. A much more compelling issue will be explaining your jump from PhD to MD (especially a PhD program that arguably has little to do with medicine). This is an issue I faced, as did other PhD-to-MD applicants here. Have a good answer and a strong essay.

Good luck!
-------
Resident, last year.

Thanks!

Woah...

You're planning to take the MCAT before taking Bio 2, Chem 2, or any OChem. You have no prior academic exposure to biology, chemistry, or organic chemistry. You're going to master 2 semesters of biology, 2 semesters of chemistry and 2 semesters of organic chemistry in just three months?

That's intense. Well...if your practice exams are poor you can always reschedule your MCAT exam date.

The MCAT is definitely one of the bigger question marks.

I do have some experience, just more of a mishmash of coursework than the actual undergrad classes. I took AP Bio and Chem in high school (admittedly a long time ago), so that's why I skipped them in UG. Also, because my masters and PhD were in combustion, I definitely took a lot of courses in flame chemistry, thermo, chemical kinetics, and the grad level o-chem. I pass/failed a human physiology course and audited the first half of the 1st term of bio core at my PhD school.

That was pretty much the contingency plan...take the review course and see how I do, and if it's not promising, postpone either the MCAT test or my application. I guess the main motivating factor for applying this coming cycle is because I'm getting old!

 

[Eik Ooc]

Have you flipped through an actual full length MCAT yet? The official AAMC exams are here: https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/preparing/85158/orderingpracticetests_mcat.html

Reading through exam 3 may help you assess the amount of knowledge you'd need to accrue.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

yeah it counts as volunteer experience, sorry i read your post really fast. I think the other thing I see people suggest is shadow experience which you can do in the meantime.

as far as the mcat, it seems you could do it. i'm getting old myself so i understand where you're coming from. As others have suggested, i'd take a practice test and gauge it from there. it does seem risky at first but not as risky with all the followup classes you've had.

Also, i could have sworn i read that AP scores were accepted for pre-reqs. found this in google:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-393443.html

so you might only need to take the o-chem's depending on your target school.

 

[dbeast]

Taking ochem and gen chem at the same time sounds pretty difficult...

If you have to make the choice between waiting a year and having crappy grades for this year, definitely slow down. I gaurantee you'll do more harm than good unless you feel insanely confident in your chemistry skills. But either way, you'll be applying late since you'll have to finish Chem, Bio, Ochem 2 in the summer sesh followed by a late MCAT.

On the bright side, as an engineer you'll ace the physics section of the MCAT.

 

[kestrel]

Have you flipped through an actual full length MCAT yet? The official AAMC exams are here: https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/preparing/85158/orderingpracticetests_mcat.html

Reading through exam 3 may help you assess the amount of knowledge you'd need to accrue.

Thanks for the link to the exam. I sat down and went through the bio and physical science sections today on the computer. It went all right, actually, so we'll see I guess.

yeah it counts as volunteer experience, sorry i read your post really fast. I think the other thing I see people suggest is shadow experience which you can do in the meantime.

as far as the mcat, it seems you could do it. i'm getting old myself so i understand where you're coming from. As others have suggested, i'd take a practice test and gauge it from there. it does seem risky at first but not as risky with all the followup classes you've had.

Also, i could have sworn i read that AP scores were accepted for pre-reqs. found this in google:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-393443.html

so you might only need to take the o-chem's depending on your target school.

Thanks for the link. Given that the AP situation is pretty school-to-school dependent, I was going to just do the pre-reqs so I would have more options.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Thanks for the link to the exam. I sat down and went through the bio and physical science sections today on the computer. It went all right, actually, so we'll see I guess.


Thanks for the link. Given that the AP situation is pretty school-to-school dependent, I was going to just do the pre-reqs so I would have more options.

You are making a common mistake that many good students, including myself, make. You are underestimating the MCAT. What you don't realize is that medical school applicants aren't like average students. They are, mostly, just like you - incredible students. The MCAT is intended to separate the sheep from the goats among these students. While it is possible for a good student and test-taker to figure out the questions on the MCAT given sufficient time, you have to realize that on the real MCAT, you DON'T HAVE time. You are answering 1 question a minute - for over 3 hours.

I tried to take the MCAT just before taking OChem I and soon after finishing Chem II.

Now, if you have a PhD in Mech Eng, then you are probably better off in Chemistry than your posts suggests. Surely you can't graduate mech engineering without taking Chem I and II. It's the Biological sciences where you are going to hurt. Even if you take Introductory Biology and OChem I this semester, your Biology is way behind the MicroBiology majors out there.

Ask yourself a question. Why are you in such an all-fired hurry. Even if you successfully got above an 8 on the MCAT BS? Why not wait 1 more year and 3 to 4 points higher on that section.

Also, while 1 year of Biology is all that is "required" by most schools, the fact is that they have an unstated requirement of a few high level biology courses like Genetics, Cell Bio, etc. These are listed as "highly suggested" but I would say that their successful applicants are 99% likely to have these courses.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Also, while 1 year of Biology is all that is "required" by most schools, the fact is that they have an unstated requirement of a few high level biology courses like Genetics, Cell Bio, etc. These are listed as "highly suggested" but I would say that their successful applicants are 99% likely to have these courses.

This is actually not true. Outside of the prerequisite courses, medical schools simply don't care what else you take - as long as you do well in the courses. Genetics, cell biology etc. are neither necessary not sufficient for a successful application, and many people have never studied them before medical school.

 

[EdLongshanks]

This is actually not true. Outside of the prerequisite courses, medical schools simply don't care what else you take - as long as you do well in the courses. Genetics, cell biology etc. are neither necessary not sufficient for a successful application, and many people have never studied them before medical school.

I have been reading the admissions requirements and attending interviews this year, and I know what I am talking about here. ScottishChap attended medical school several years ago and I bow to his knowledge of medicine and what it takes to make it through medical school, but I know what today's admissions committees are telling applicants. Both of my state schools require at least 1 higher level biology course and highly suggest 3 to 5. Every other school that I have interviewed at, talked about the higher level biology courses and said that they were "highly suggested." and, in fact, some of them explicitly stated that it was an unwritten requirement.

Before you make a decision to apply without planning to take higher level courses, call a few admissions departments and verify what I just said.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I have been reading the admissions requirements and attending interviews this year, and I know what I am talking about here. ScottishChap attended medical school several years ago and I bow to his knowledge of medicine and what it takes to make it through medical school, but I know what today's admissions committees are telling applicants. Both of my state schools require at least 1 higher level biology course and highly suggest 3 to 5. Every other school that I have interviewed at, talked about the higher level biology courses and said that they were "highly suggested." and, in fact, some of them explicitly stated that it was an unwritten requirement.

Before you make a decision to apply without planning to take higher level courses, call a few admissions departments and verify what I just said.

I'll use one of your favorite phrases, EdLongShanks: "you don't understand".

Please do not mislead Kestrel. 99% of successful medical school applicants (what you in fact stated) do not have cell biology, biochemistry, or genetics before starting. Those are courses that are simply not required, they will not increase your chance of admission, and they will not help you a great deal once you are admitted. Some odd schools (like Harvard HST which requires calculus and Hopkins which requires calculus/stats) do have an additional prerequisite course outside of the usual sequence but they are outliers.

If you were told otherwise in your fine state, you were mislead or you have asked a school that is an outlandish outlier, but it's your money and time to burn. I interviewed applicants to medical school until not too long ago so feel free to consider me informed, OP (I could care less what you think, EdLongShanks).

I'll say it again: medical schools simply do not care what courses you take outside of the prerequisite courses. Studies have shown that humanities majors, for example, do better on the MCAT and in securing a seat in medical school and most of those applicants have taken the bare minimum science courses. Just know that you are responsible for doing well in whatever you decide to take. There is no reason to delay applying to medical school once you have the prerequisites and MCAT behind you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Welcome to SDN.

Like Scottish Chap, I am a PhD-to-MD. I also have taught MCAT classes for Kaplan off and on for the past 15 years, and this is my fourth year as a student adcom at my med school. Based on all of that experience (as well as having gone through the entire process myself--I'm now applying for residency), I completely agree with Scottish Chap's advice. Yes, your timeline is too ambitious. Do *not* take the MCAT before taking the prereqs. You're already in a much better starting position than the vast majority of premeds posting on this forum in terms of your GPA and EMT background. Do not weaken your position by trying to rush through things. It's always better to do things right the first time and not have to do some hefty repair work because now you have a hole in your record like a C in one of the prereq courses or a low MCAT score.

For a more realistic timeline, plan on taking the courses you need this academic year, taking the MCAT in spring or early summer of 2012, and applying in summer 2012 to begin in summer 2013. That will also give you time to craft a good personal statement, get the letters of recommendation you need, and maybe fit in some shadowing. (EMTs do not work directly with physicians, so it's still a good idea to get some face time with a doc.)

As for additional courses, this is highly school-dependent. You should look up the requirements for every school where you might consider applying, and make sure you can meet those requirements. Besides the prereqs, some schools require specific other courses such as English, social sciences, biochem, genetics, calculus, etc. Like Scottish Chap said, most schools won't require upper level bio classes (though they do often recommend that you take some, as Ed pointed out.) Even if you want to apply to a school that has additional requirements, you will need to fulfill those requirements before *matriculation*, not before applying. So it's fine to take biochem or any other required extra course next year while you apply rather than this year.

Finally, I also mod the Physician Scientists forum along with this one, and I put together a sticky post in there with links to useful threads for PhD-to-MD applicants. Scroll down the forum page and check out the FAQs sticky, post #6.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

P.S. Even in 2004, when I took the MCAT, AAMC #3 was far easier than the real MCAT. With the advent of the new computer format and shorter MCAT length, the passages and questions on the test have gotten harder, not easier.

 

[EnVinoVerdad]

My goal is to apply for entry in 2012, so the question is, is my plan too ambitious?

Yes! Why the rush?You must be young if you graduated in 03'.

What do you gain/loss by applying for 2013 entrance?

I was in your position two years ago and decided not to rush the process.
I got my first acceptance last week and have a total of 8 interview invites.

Ask your school if you can skip Bio I/II and go straight into Cell Bio. I did and things worked out perfect.

Below is my post-bacc. schedule . I was working as a full-time eng. I should have taken my MCAT in June and submitted my application (AMCAS) in July. Earlier the better. I'm a ChE (05') and will be 29 when I matriculate this fall.

Shadow/ Clinic Volunteer Spring 09'
Cell Bio Fall 09'
Genetics Spring 10'
MCAT July 10'
Submit AMCAS Sept 10'
Molecular / BioChem I Fall 10'

 

[kestrel]

You are making a common mistake that many good students, including myself, make. You are underestimating the MCAT. What you don't realize is that medical school applicants aren't like average students. They are, mostly, just like you - incredible students. The MCAT is intended to separate the sheep from the goats among these students. While it is possible for a good student and test-taker to figure out the questions on the MCAT given sufficient time, you have to realize that on the real MCAT, you DON'T HAVE time. You are answering 1 question a minute - for over 3 hours.

Fair enough. I definitely want to make sure that I'm taking in the proper perspective on this.

Welcome to SDN.

Thanks, and thanks for the advice!

P.S. Even in 2004, when I took the MCAT, AAMC #3 was far easier than the real MCAT. With the advent of the new computer format and shorter MCAT length, the passages and questions on the test have gotten harder, not easier.

Yeah, I was kind of worried that was the case. How much easier is it than a real MCAT exam? I just sat down last night, took it, and scored V: 12 P: 13 B: 9 (within the time limit). What would this translate to realistically? Also, which one of the practice exams would you say is most realistic?

Yes! Why the rush?You must be young if you graduated in 03'.

What do you gain/loss by applying for 2013 entrance?

I turned 30 this past year. In the famous words of my labmate (at least famous in my lab group) he declares that "on [his] 30th birthday, [he] started dying."

But in all seriousness, I think it's a combination of wanting to do it, along with seeing everyone around me who is my age having successful careers (including a couple of my doctor friends who are now finishing residency embarking on careers).

Another part of it is that the undergrad pre-med advisor at my PhD institution has given me the doom and gloom about being too old to apply and just not being competitive compared to younger students, and that has also subconsciously motivated me to apply quickly.

 

[LaurenMCAT]

I turned 30 this past year. In the famous words of my labmate (at least famous in my lab group) he declares that "on [his] 30th birthday, [he] started dying."

But in all seriousness, I think it's a combination of wanting to do it, along with seeing everyone around me who is my age having successful careers (including a couple of my doctor friends who are now finishing residency embarking on careers).

Another part of it is that the undergrad pre-med advisor at my PhD institution has given me the doom and gloom about being too old to apply and just not being competitive compared to younger students, and that has also subconsciously motivated me to apply quickly.

TELL ME YOU'RE KIDDING. You're clearly young enough to believe this garbage. GARBAGE.

You know how to get into medical school? Take your time to prepare the right way. Kick butt. Nail the MCAT. And do it all with your hard-earned maturity that very few 21 year-olds can claim to possess. Show the admissions committees that you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you want to do this for the rest of your life and you're willing to navigate the proper channels and run all the required gauntlets in order to do so. Jump through the pre-med hoops with agility and style.

Dude - you have the rest of your life in front of you. As do I - and I'll be just starting med school at the age of 31. You know what us "old folks" have that the young 'uns don't? Life experience: wisdom to not freak out when we have a big immuno test coming up and our toilet is overflowing and our dog is suddenly limping (for example) We CAN have a life while in med school because we've done it before.

I like to think of this: When you're doing what you love, time doesn't matter. When you're doing what you don't love, time is all you can think about. (I made it up.)

In short:
- Ignore the BS about age
- FINISH your pre-reqs with that 4.0 brain you've got
- Beat the MCAT into submission, don't settle for some average score that doesn't reflect your talents
- Apply only when your application is undeniably awesome, but do so as early in an application cycle as possible
- Get some shadowing in in various arenas: clinic, OR, ER, etc.
- Don't look back and regret a thing!

Have fun!!!

 

[PostHaste]

I know everyone else is right, you (we) should take our time, but I'll admit to feeling the same way as you. I've been on track to do essentially what you're doing - try to take the MCAT without all the prereqs, am in the PR course now, still thinking about applying this summer.

I think it depends on what you're comfortable applying with. You've got the GPA. What MCAT score are you trying to hit? Can you do it? Do you have time to get shadowing experience, write & edit a good PS, and get great LORs in the next 6 months? Can you apply broadly enough to offset the potential 4 MCAT points you're losing by not finishing your prereqs*?

It all comes down to priorities. Is it so important to you to get on with things right now that you're willing to risk a failed cycle?

Finally, what's the harm in trying your current plan? Prepare now as though you'll apply this June - shadow, work on the PS, take the PR course, etc. If you get to the spring and realize you're not hitting your target on the MCAT practice tests, then you wait a year. But if you're hitting your numbers and are otherwise prepared, then go for it.

When Lauren says "Prepare the right way," I take that to mean prepare the right way for you. That might mean 6 months or 2 years, depending on what your needs and strengths are.

/end self-justification ramblings

*Pulling those numbers out of my arse based on something I read on here about 1 point per class improvement.

 

[QofQuimica]

I know everyone else is right, you (we) should take our time, but I'll admit to feeling the same way as you. I've been on track to do essentially what you're doing - try to take the MCAT without all the prereqs, am in the PR course now, still thinking about applying this summer.

So you know everyone else is right, and yet you're not only continuing on with doing something you know is a bad idea, but also encouraging others to do the same? The logic of this thought process completely escapes me.

It all comes down to priorities. Is it so important to you to get on with things right now that you're willing to risk a failed cycle?

Again, what I don't understand is why you would purposely set yourself up to have a *greater* risk of a failed cycle. It's certainly not out of ignorance; you've already acknowledged that this is exactly what you're doing!

Finally, what's the harm in trying your current plan?

As many of us have already explained, the harm is that you could dig yourself into such a hole that you may delay getting into medical school for several more years....or maybe ever. You feel left behind now? Go read the Reapplicants forum if you haven't ever done that. Talk to someone who has academic problems with their app and wasn't accepted anywhere, hasn't even gotten interviews at most places after applying to 30, 40 schools, has reapplied 3, 4 times.

When Lauren says "Prepare the right way," I take that to mean prepare the right way for you. That might mean 6 months or 2 years, depending on what your needs and strengths are.

No, she's saying that the OP should do things in the proper order and get all of his/her ducks lined up in a row before applying. That is the "right way," and that means *not* taking the MCAT before taking the prereqs.

***

I've said this many times, but some of you are new, so I'll say it again. There is a reason why the premed prep classes are called *prereqs* and not *postreqs*. The logic and implications are very simple. There is an order to this process, and you start by doing the first thing first. Then you do the second thing, followed by the third, and so on. So, if you want to go to medical school, the first thing on the academic path is to complete the four prereqs--all of which are tested on the MCAT. You then prepare for the MCAT as well as you can, so that you can get the best score of which you are humanly capable.

As a final thought: Medical schools are not sitting around waiting for you or me to darken their doorsteps. Even the least competitive state school in the geographically least desirable place in this country (however you define that) receives many more apps from qualified students than can possibly be admitted. So when it comes to medical schools, you may need and want them, but they don't need you. The question is whether they *want* you. Fortunately, each of you has it within your power to increase the odds of them wanting you by making your overall app as strong as possible, including your academic credentials. So do things the way you're supposed to do them, and don't let yourself get caught up in a self-imposed rat race. There is no better validation of your efforts than when you get that first med school acceptance.

 

[PostHaste]

So you know everyone else is right, and yet you're not only continuing on with doing something you know is a bad idea, but also encouraging others to do the same? The logic of this thought process completely escapes me.

Again, what I don't understand is why you would purposely set yourself up to have a *greater* risk of a failed cycle. It's certainly not out of ignorance; you've already acknowledged that this is exactly what you're doing!

As many of us have already explained, the harm is that you could dig yourself into such a hole that you may delay getting into medical school for several more years....or maybe ever. You feel left behind now? Go read the Reapplicants forum if you haven't ever done that. Talk to someone who has academic problems with their app and wasn't accepted anywhere, hasn't even gotten interviews at most places after applying to 30, 40 schools, has reapplied 3, 4 times.

Q, I don't know if I'm not accurately presenting my thoughts or if I am and you still disagree with them. All I was trying to get at is that, yes, you want the best application possible, and yes, there is a smart, proven way to do that. However, as with all things in life, there are personal factors that come into play - differences in life situations, passion for Medicine Above All Else, risk tolerance, academic capability, etc.

To clarify, I don't condone applying with a sub-par application. If I get to March (my scheduled MCAT date) and am not making consistent 32+ on my practice exams, I plan to defer applying until 2012. When I said "what's the harm," I mean what's the harm in going balls-out until March and then pulling out if necessary? (I ask this in all seriousness; am I missing something with this plan?) I realize that if I apply this summer with a 32 then maybe next summer I could be applying with a 35, but for me (my situation, my goals, my risk tolerance) that seems like diminishing returns.

 

[PostHaste]

Heh, just stumbled on this post of mine from 2 weeks ago. Maybe I'm not so good at learning from past mistakes...

71 in Heat Transfer (400-level Mech Eng course). Apparently they were serious when they said it was strongly recommended to take Fluid Mechanics first. Know-it-all-20-year-old-self FAIL.

And FWIW, I do appreciate and take your (the collective "you") advice to heart. I have considerably toned down my plans in the past 6 months thanks to lurking here. Apparently I have a ways to go.

 

[Northwesterly]

Fair enough. I definitely want to make sure that I'm taking in the proper perspective on this.

Yeah, I was kind of worried that was the case. How much easier is it than a real MCAT exam? I just sat down last night, took it, and scored V: 12 P: 13 B: 9 (within the time limit). What would this translate to realistically? Also, which one of the practice exams would you say is most realistic?

Far be it from me to contradict Q, but while it would certainly be ill-advised to jump in feet first before you're prepared, I do think there's some room to nudge the envelope. (while reserving the right to wait a year) MCAT scores shouldn't be too much of a surprise--if you can reliably score 35-40 on the AAMC practice tests, there's no reason not to go for it. If you can't, on the other hand...

Chem II, Orgo II, and all of Bio (which it sounds like you will still need as of June 2011) is a lot to cover on your own. How hard depends on your professors, your schedule, and your study habits, (not to mention your natural abilities) but the practice scores should speak for themselves.

(A semi-hopeful anecdote: I took the MCAT last spring, before taking a summer Orgo sequence. I bought the textbook and reviewed it heavily, along with the Berkeley Review books. I got comfortable with the nomenclature and some very basic rules--Markovnikov and Zaitsev, basically. But I didn't have anywhere near the knowledge I did after 12 weeks of intensive classes--it probably cost me a point, maybe even 2, on the BS section. And this was just one course sequence--I'd finished bio and chem and physics already, which is probably 95% of what the MCAT covers.)

The AAMC 3 is a bit on the easy side, (8, 9, and 10 are probably best) but if you're taking it without preparation it might not be a bad predictor of what you can expect with a couple months' review and practice. If you're sure you can handle intro chem and orgo at the same time, *and* if you march through AAMCs 4-10 with scores in the high 30s, you have a shot. It's right on the bleeding edge, though, so be careful what you commit yourself to.

Don't get me wrong--what Q and others are suggesting is clearly the reasonable way to proceed. But it's not always easy to be reasonable--I'm just recommending you proceed very carefully, giving yourself lots of checkpoints and opportunities to pull back if things aren't going exactly according to plan.

(Update: It looks like PostHaste provided a more succint version of this whilst I was typing, so, yeah... what he/she said.)