Am I better fit for DO or MD?

[ThatcherChaudhry]

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Hi!

I'm applying this June, and don't know if I should apply to DO Schools. At this point, I don't know if I have a shot at MD Schools. I'd like to go to an MD school only because I want to become a doctor in a relatively competitive speciality - Gastroenterology. I shadowed 2, and I love it, there's nothing I don't like about the field.

My cGPA is 3.65, sGPA is 3.42, MCAT 35 (Took it 3x, first two were low 20's).

My EC's/Research/Clinical & Non-Clinical volunteering are all strong, and I'd say I do have a lot of research experience. I also work as a Middle School teacher, so I guess I have life experience as well.


As far as what I prefer...I don't care what's at the end of my name so as long as no doors are closed for me. I want to enter Gastro!! Personally, I live in Maine, and UNECOM is a great school, and close to my current home. But geographical distance is not something I highly prize, I'm willing to travel anywhere in the US to chase my dreams.

Any/all advice greatly appreciated.

 

[JPA178]

Apply early and you definitely have a shot at MD. If I were you I'd apply to a fair number of both MD and DO schools. As far as going into GI, you'll still be competitive whether you're MD or DO.

 

[Mad Jack]

Go MD if at all possible. It opens up more doors than you know.

 

[Goro]

Concur.

Apply early and you definitely have a shot at MD. If I were you I'd apply to a fair number of both MD and DO. As far as going into GI, you'll still be competitive whether you're MD or DO.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Thanks! I'd thought that Gastro was really competitive though. Also, I just looked up the top 20 IM programs, and none of them seemed to have any DO representation...

Is this a cause for concern? I heard Gastro sources from top IM programs so that's why I ask.

 

[JPA178]

Thanks! I'd thought that Gastro was really competitive though. Also, I just looked up the top 20 IM programs, and none of them seemed to have any DO representation...

Is this a cause for concern? I heard Gastro sources from top IM programs so that's why I ask.

Focus on getting into medical school first before worrying about getting into residency and fellowship. Like I said, you have a very good shot at MD. Regardless, there are plenty of DOs who make it into respectable IM residencies.

 

[pageantry]

Not to derail, but what did you do differently to skyrocket your MCAT score like that? Impressive.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Not to derail, but what did you do differently to skyrocket your MCAT score like that? Impressive.

I was a total idiot. I have a WAMC thread that goes into further details, but it was a bad breakup, I got two 25's because I didn't study at all. Waited a year, figured out I was an idiot, and studied hard.

I used SN2ed for studying. Followed it to a tee, and added in Gold Standard Exams + Coursesaver Videos (Chad's).

 

[jqueb29]

GPA is more in line with DO schools, while MCAT is more in line with MD schools. Apply broadly to both, and attend the best school that accepts you.

 

[pageantry]

Damn, just read your post. That's a great story, even if it's probably not what adcoms want to hear. Good luck to you!

 

[Omppu27]

I was a total idiot. I have a WAMC thread that goes into further details, but it was a bad breakup, I got two 25's because I didn't study at all. Waited a year, figured out I was an idiot, and studied hard.

I used SN2ed for studying. Followed it to a tee, and added in Gold Standard Exams + Coursesaver Videos (Chad's).

Chad saved my life as well!

 

[beachside]

Hi!

I'm applying this June, and don't know if I should apply to DO Schools. At this point, I don't know if I have a shot at MD Schools. I'd like to go to an MD school only because I want to become a doctor in a relatively competitive speciality - Gastroenterology. I shadowed 2, and I love it, there's nothing I don't like about the field.

My cGPA is 3.65, sGPA is 3.42, MCAT 35 (Took it 3x, first two were low 20's).

My EC's/Research/Clinical & Non-Clinical volunteering are all strong, and I'd say I do have a lot of research experience. I also work as a Middle School teacher, so I guess I have life experience as well.


As far as what I prefer...I don't care what's at the end of my name so as long as no doors are closed for me. I want to enter Gastro!! Personally, I live in Maine, and UNECOM is a great school, and close to my current home. But geographical distance is not something I highly prize, I'm willing to travel anywhere in the US to chase my dreams.

Any/all advice greatly appreciated.

MD.

Edit: I just read your post about having two 25's on your record. I would apply to both MD and DO if I were you. The lower scores will weigh down your 25 a bit.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks! I'd thought that Gastro was really competitive though. Also, I just looked up the top 20 IM programs, and none of them seemed to have any DO representation...

Is this a cause for concern? I heard Gastro sources from top IM programs so that's why I ask.

Yes, it's a cause for concern. You can go into gastro from any university program, but it's a far more likely transition if you went to a high versus a mid or low tier one.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

MD.

Edit: I just read your post about having two 25's on your record. I would apply to both MD and DO if I were you. The lower scores will weigh down your 25 a bit.

Do you think most schools average?

 

[beachside]

Do you think most schools average?

It's hard to say. Some schools do. Some ADCOMs within schools do. Some schools just take your highest. Other schools may mentally give your higher score more weight, but not quite consider it the same as someone who got a 35 on the first shot.

I still think you've got a great shot at MD. Just don't apply to too competitive of places, and apply to like 20+. I'd throw in a few DO apps just to hedge your bets.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Feelgood Inc]

You easily have a shot at MD. I don't get why SDN is always so gloom and doom.

because it's SDN.

 

[ZX10R]

Lets be real here; worrying about Top 20 IM programs right now is insane. That's 4+ years away and realistically you'll change your mind like most Med students. Anyways, you're easily an MD candidate. Write a good PS/secondaries and have good LORs. Some schools look at your Class Rank given to you by a pre-med committee (if you have one) but killer ECs will eliminate that need. Don't be worried; if you don't get in you applied unwisely, interviewed poorly, or did not give us all the details. Good luck.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Lets be real here; worrying about Top 20 IM programs right now is insane. That's 4+ years away and realistically you'll change your mind like most Med students. Anyways, you're easily an MD candidate. Write a good PS/secondaries and have good LORs. Some schools look at your Class Rank given to you by a pre-med committee (if you have one) but killer ECs will eliminate that need. Don't be worried; if you don't get in you applied unwisely, interviewed poorly, or did not give us all the details. Good luck.

Haha I know, and I was debating on whether to post this because I didn't want to come off a certain way. I've always just been the type who plans 3, 4, 5, 10 years in advance. And, seeing as I've shadowed Gastro, and wanted to be a doctor because of Gastro, I'd like to assume that one day I'll be a GI Doc. And I know my mind might totally change.

Thanks so much for the advice though! I'm going to try to write some great essays.

 

[Lifebloom]

Based on what I've read, a lot of DO's are denied opportunities in terms of residencies and fellowships...which I still don't quite understand.

It's unfair, and it will just make your life harder down the road.

 

[Lucca]

Probably good for MD if you use the MSAR wisely and have a good explanation for the two 25s somewhere on your app.

 

[username456789]

Thanks! I'd thought that Gastro was really competitive though. Also, I just looked up the top 20 IM programs, and none of them seemed to have any DO representation...

Is this a cause for concern? I heard Gastro sources from top IM programs so that's why I ask.

Yes, it is. And even if you change your mind (which you likely will) when it comes to deciding in a specialty, going MD will have kept many doors open for you than if you had gone DO. That's just how it is.

 

[AspiringERMD]

You'll have to do some research, but a few MD programs focus only on your most recent MCAT, your highest MCAT, or take the highest score per subsection. Apply to all of those that don't do a straight average.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

You'll have to do some research, but a few MD programs focus only on your most recent MCAT, your highest MCAT, or take the highest score per subsection. Apply to all of those that don't do a straight average.

This is just a post for people who might be in my position in the future. But, only 3 Medical Schools say they average the scores. So, I'm applying to the rest and assuming they don't but again, I can never be sure that they won't average based on whoever is looking at my application.

I've called up about 50 schools and they all say they look at the most recent score. We'll see how truthful that is during application season I suppose!

Thanks for all the advice guys. At this point, I think I am applying straight MD with 2 DO programs I really like, one of them being UNECOM.

 

[AspiringERMD]

This is just a post for people who might be in my position in the future. But, only 3 Medical Schools say they average the scores. So, I'm applying to the rest and assuming they don't but again, I can never be sure that they won't average based on whoever is looking at my application.

I've called up about 50 schools and they all say they look at the most recent score. We'll see how truthful that is during application season I suppose!

Thanks for all the advice guys. At this point, I think I am applying straight MD with 2 DO programs I really like, one of them being UNECOM.

Hmmmmm... I was under the impression that the majority of schools average... interesting

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Hmmmmm... I was under the impression that the majority of schools average... interesting

Yeah there's a list rolling around SDN that was kind of old (compiled 3 years ago), and only 3 Medical Schools publicly say they average. I called up the ~50 schools I was interested in this last week, and while those 3 schools told me over the phone that they do average, the other 47 all said a mixture of most recent or best score. Some even said they super score like GWU (Take highest from each sub score from multiple tests). So who knows? If I get my foot in the door with 1 school, it'll be a success for me.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Probably good for MD if you use the MSAR wisely and have a good explanation for the two 25s somewhere on your app.

Really? I was advised not to mention the first two MCATs anywhere on my app. I'm definitely not going to write about it in my PS....wouldn't that be a foolish move?

 

[Omppu27]

Really? I was advised not to mention the first two MCATs anywhere on my app. I'm definitely not going to write about it in my PS....wouldn't that be a foolish move?

I think your personal statement can be a good place to address any major flaws in your app (eg. Low gpa due to poor start of college, poor MCAT score(s), trouble with law, etc.).

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

I think your personal statement can be a good place to address any major flaws in your app (eg. Low gpa due to poor start of college, poor MCAT score(s), trouble with law, etc.).

I don't know if that's sound advice tbh. I think it'd detract from your application. I was told by an adcom at my state school that students who write about deficiencies in their app (that might've otherwise been overlooked) tank their own chances at the school.

But everyone has their own opinion, and if that is what you did, seems to have worked as you are accepted now (congrats). I do not think I will mention my gpa, MCAT, or academic difficulty during Junior year in my PS.

 

[Omppu27]

I don't know if that's sound advice tbh. I think it'd detract from your application. I was told by an adcom at my state school that students who write about deficiencies in their app (that might've otherwise been overlooked) tank their own chances at the school.

But everyone has their own opinion, and if that is what you did, seems to have worked as you are accepted now (congrats). I do not think I will mention my gpa, MCAT, or academic difficulty during Junior year in my PS.

I can assure you that two 25s on your MCAT will not be overlooked. Considering you did so well on your third attempt, how much a school cares about the 25 might differ, but all schools are gonna see it. The fact that you took that test TWICE when you clearly weren't ready could even be a sign of immature judgement and decision making. It might be important to address these things and explain yourself. I'm not saying it should be the focal point of your essay, but I don't think a couple sentences would be a bad idea. Also, for what it's worth, I didn't do this on my essay, but I've heard this advice given from multiple people on these forums.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

I can assure you that two 25s on your MCAT will not be overlooked. Considering you did so well on your third attempt, how much a school cares about the 25 might differ, but all schools are gonna see it. The fact that you took that test TWICE when you clearly weren't ready could even be a sign of immature judgement and decision making. It might be important to address these things and explain yourself. I'm not saying it should be the focal point of your essay, but I don't think a couple sentences would be a bad idea. Also, for what it's worth, I didn't do this on my essay, but I've heard this advice given from multiple people on these forums.

Sure, I agree. But me talking about being depressed over a break up, and explaining an entire year's worth of academic slump isn't going to get me any brownie points. For what it's worth, Goro and Gyngyn advised that I not mention it. And, I'd continue to advise people not to mention it. It'll just turn into a pity party essay. I mean, it's different for everyone. If I had a 2.7 and did an SMP and took 3 years to work on my app, of course I'd mention it. But I didn't do that...so I don't think it'd be a smart move for me to mention it.

 

[Ariodant]

Do not mention it in your essay. The essay is for convincing us to invest in your future, not for making excuses for your past. An applicant explaining that "I had a breakup and botched the MCAT" sounds no better than a physician saying "I had a divorce and botched your surgery". The fact is you made bad decisions and performed poorly on the test, twice. What led to it is irrelevant. What's relevant is remediation. You now have a 35, and if your GPA shows an upward trend, then many schools may be willing to believe that you have matured and will look past the first two MCAT scores.

 

[Omppu27]

Sure, I agree. But me talking about being depressed over a break up, and explaining an entire year's worth of academic slump isn't going to get me any brownie points. For what it's worth, Goro and Gyngyn advised that I not mention it. And, I'd continue to advise people not to mention it. It'll just turn into a pity party essay. I mean, it's different for everyone. If I had a 2.7 and did an SMP and took 3 years to work on my app, of course I'd mention it. But I didn't do that...so I don't think it'd be a smart move for me to mention it.

Arg, I apologize. In this case then it's probably not a good idea to mention it. I thought it was just due to not being prepared. But you might want to be prepared to explain if it comes up in an interview.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Do not mention it in your essay. The essay is for convincing us to invest in your future, not for making excuses for your past. An applicant explaining that "I had a breakup and botched the MCAT" sounds no better than a physician saying "I had a divorce and botched your surgery". The fact is you made bad decisions and performed poorly on the test, twice. What led to it is irrelevant. What's relevant is remediation. You now have a 35, and if your GPA shows an upward trend, then many schools may be willing to believe that you have matured and will look past the first two MCAT scores.

I have a question about this. Junior year, I took Anatomy and Organic Chemistry, got a B and C+ respectively in both semesters. That year, I had an average GPA hovering around 3.2-3.3.

Senior year, I've taken some science classes, and gotten a B+ and A in them. But, I took some "fluff" classes as well, like Wedding Planning and Online Math Reasoning, because I was studying for my MCAT. This semester, I'm doing my teaching internship, and taking a full education courseload. I expect my average GPA for this year to be around 3.7-3.8. So yes, it shows upward trend, but not upper-level Science classes.

Will Medical Schools go that in detail to see what courses I took and stuff?

 

[gyngyn]

I have a question about this. Junior year, I took Anatomy and Organic Chemistry, got a B and C+ respectively in both semesters. That year, I had an average GPA hovering around 3.2-3.3.

Senior year, I've taken some science classes, and gotten a B+ and A in them. But, I took some "fluff" classes as well, like Wedding Planning and Online Math Reasoning, because I was studying for my MCAT. This semester, I'm doing my teaching internship, and taking a full education courseload. I expect my average GPA for this year to be around 3.7-3.8. So yes, it shows upward trend, but not upper-level Science classes.

Will Medical Schools go that in detail to see what courses I took and stuff?

Wedding Planning!?
This would definitely draw fire in my committee.
The students would go wild.

 

[NonTradJp]

I would suggest applying broadly and early to both MD/DO which was already mentioned above. In addition, I would like to suggest calling the schools that looks most interesting to you to see what they look for. Schools have preferences and weight different things. If you find yourself interested in particular schools, when you apply I think your passion would show up better and let you stand out.

 

[Ariodant]

I have a question about this. Junior year, I took Anatomy and Organic Chemistry, got a B and C+ respectively in both semesters. That year, I had an average GPA hovering around 3.2-3.3.

Senior year, I've taken some science classes, and gotten a B+ and A in them. But, I took some "fluff" classes as well, like Wedding Planning and Online Math Reasoning, because I was studying for my MCAT. This semester, I'm doing my teaching internship, and taking a full education courseload. I expect my average GPA for this year to be around 3.7-3.8. So yes, it shows upward trend, but not upper-level Science classes.

Will Medical Schools go that in detail to see what courses I took and stuff?

In this case, you sGPA will not show much improvement, and schools will take note of that. Blatant filler classes like Wedding Planning won't sit well with schools either. You want them to believe that you are now mature and serious about medicine, but then proceed to cutting corners while remediating your GPA?

 

[senzen]

Wedding Planning!?
This would definitely draw fire in my committee.
The students would go wild.

In this case, you sGPA will not show much improvement, and schools will take note of that. Blatant filler classes like Wedding Planning won't sit well with schools either. You want them to believe that you are now mature and serious about medicine, but then proceed to cutting corners while remediating your GPA?

Is there an issue with taking a class like that? Like I will have a class like that because I need to take for an art elective I need to take for an art elective in order to graduate. I won't specify so I can maintain my anonymity but it's basically similar to courses like Graphic Design, Photography, Ceramics, etc. I will take about 2 of them. And there are these 3 credit (non-lab) science electives like Astronomy and some other related courses because I like them. I have about 3-4 of those. They are relatively easy courses. But I have about nearly 17-18 rigorous science classes evenly spread out throughout my last 2 years (Cell Bio, Biochem, Immunology, Genetics, etc.). My sGPA will be about a 3.5 but because I got a F and C from early pre-requisites.

I guess what I'm trying to ask will it be an issue if one takes these "fun" or "easy" courses if one still takes challenging courses? I take like 3-4 hard sciences classes every semester (well for my last 2 years of college)! But I try to balance those with some more "relaxing" courses that I'm required to take anyway (art is required, I just chose an easy and fun elective).

By the way, Wedding Planning sounds like a fun class haha.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

Wedding Planning!?
This would definitely draw fire in my committee.
The students would go wild.

Really? Dang, I still have time, maybe I should drop it and pick up another Math class.

And @Ariodant my BCMP increased from 3.30 to 3.42, possible 3.45 by the end of senior year. Those math classes count for sGPA right?

 

[Ariodant]

Is there an issue with taking a class like that? Like I will have a class like that because I need to take for an art elective I need to take for an art elective in order to graduate. I won't specify so I can maintain my anonymity but it's basically similar to courses like Graphic Design, Photography, Ceramics, etc. I will take about 2 of them. And there are these 3 credit (non-lab) science electives like Astronomy and some other related courses because I like them. I have about 3-4 of those. They are relatively easy courses. But I have about nearly 17-18 rigorous science classes evenly spread out throughout my last 2 years (Cell Bio, Biochem, Immunology, Genetics, etc.). My sGPA will be about a 3.5 but because I got a F and C from early pre-requisites.

I guess what I'm trying to ask will it be an issue if one takes these "fun" or "easy" courses if one still takes challenging courses? I take like 3-4 hard sciences classes every semester (well for my last 2 years of college)! But I try to balance those with some more "relaxing" courses that I'm required to take anyway (art is required, I just chose an easy and fun elective).

By the way, Wedding Planning sounds like a fun class haha.

Taking non-science classes is not the problem, not taking upper class science classes is. You are taking rigorous science classes so it will not be a problem for you. Ace them consistently, and schools will have no issue with your previous Fs and Cs.

 

[gyngyn]

By the way, Wedding Planning sounds like a fun class haha.

I'm sure it's no less rigorous than "Biology of Spring Wildflowers" but someone trying to make a case for their academic chops isn't going far with either choice. It sounds like something your Mom takes for adult summer school at a community college..

 

[PIacebo]

Looks like you can get in MD fine. Apply DO if you don't hear anything by December 15th.

 

[ThatcherChaudhry]

I'm sure it no less rigorous than "Biology of Spring Wildflowers" but someone trying to make a case for their academic chops isn't going far with either choice. It sounds like something your Mom takes for adult summer school at a community college..

I'm not going to lie, took it for an easy A hahaha. Also it's online. I should tell my mom about it now that you mention it, she'd get a hoot out of it!

 

[tiedyeddog]

Go for the MD. It keeps as many doors open as possible.