- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
Last edited:
Am I competitive/should I retake MCAT with these stats?
- Thread starter centillion
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2014
- Messages
- 140
- Reaction score
- 283
Well, how much did you study for the 33 score? Was there something going on at that time that kept you from doing as well as you think you could have? How were you scoring on the practice tests before taking the real one? If you were scoring ~33 on the practice exams, you need to consider if you will even be able to make some changes to bump your score up by about 4 points or so. Also, are you planning on retaking with the new MCAT, or do you have a last-minute seat held in January (if so, not much time to study left..)
Just some questions that might help people give you better advice, once you provide the answers.
Just some questions that might help people give you better advice, once you provide the answers.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2010
- Messages
- 442
- Reaction score
- 140
Nothing guarantees you an acceptance to any specific school. Of course a higher score would make you more competitive, whether or not you will score significantly better than your 33 is on you.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
gg
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2013
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 13
Quick question: Wouldn't those top schools look down on MCAT retakes? I thought, according to what most ppl here on SDN say, that retakes are considered a big red flag. Even if you improved your MCAT from a 33 to a 36-37, would they still consider you among all the other applicants that managed to get a 36 on their first try?
I ask because I may have to retake the new MCAT myself, but am also very interested in attending a top school! SDN has kind of lowered my ambitions…and after I heard about the retake thing, I feel like I have no hope. Honestly, I'm not sure what's true anymore...
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2014
- Messages
- 647
- Reaction score
- 733
I'm gonna say no retake. This is a big gamble and you scoring the same or worse will just make your otherwise great app to get sunk.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 8,599
- Reaction score
- 19,864
This is a very sticky situation to be in. If I were you I would probably retake but the common wisdom in sdn is not to retake a good score. I believe @LizzyM is an adcom at a very competitive school so she might be able to weigh in. It's a risky retake for sure. The improvement needs to be rather large to justify it. 4 points.
It's better if you take the MCAT once and it varies based on whoever looks at your application and the school's policy, but I feel that if the reviewer likes your application enough, they will give you an interview. If it helps, I know someone who retook the MCAT and got an II at a top 5 school.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 356
- Reaction score
- 246
Retaking that 33 is a hugee no-no.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 618
- Reaction score
- 829
One thing I learned about the MCAT like with medical admissions process is that it makes no sense. First time I took the MCAT I thought I bombed the BS section because I did not feel prepared but I received a score of 14! Second time I took it I thought the BS was harder but I felt more confident than I did last time and I believed I would pull off a 13 or higher. But I received a 12 on BS. Still good scores but how one feels about this test should not be taken seriously. Especially since I had the chance to study more for BS the second time around but scored lower. Nothing is really guaranteed with this test because the topic list is so broad that you can get stuck with a test of your weaknesses. Luck and chance definitely play a role in this. If you retake and do not dramatically improve then it looks worse than a 33. Also, not to be rude, but I highly doubt you will score in the 96-98 percentile that's what a 36-37 is with the new MCAT. If you were not able to reach that percentile with the old MCAT then it's going to be more difficult with the new MCAT because now you have biochem, behavioral science, and more verbal to worry about.
Edit: I would not mess with the new MCAT... I have an II from one of the top schools in NYC that you mentioned and my MCAT is lower than yours plus you seem to have "better" ECs. The time you spend studying for the new MCAT can be better put to construct a kickass application. An application that is so well written that adcoms will send you that II. Apply Day 1 and pre-write secondaries. As long as you have a compelling story and your secondaries match with the school's mission then the odds will be in your favor.
Edit: I would not mess with the new MCAT... I have an II from one of the top schools in NYC that you mentioned and my MCAT is lower than yours plus you seem to have "better" ECs. The time you spend studying for the new MCAT can be better put to construct a kickass application. An application that is so well written that adcoms will send you that II. Apply Day 1 and pre-write secondaries. As long as you have a compelling story and your secondaries match with the school's mission then the odds will be in your favor.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
yuu
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2012
- Messages
- 9,248
- Reaction score
- 8,724
Yeah, if you're still a junior you may find yourself retaking just because of the shortened lifespan of the old MCAT once the new one shows up.
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/398586/data/mcatexampolicy.pdf
At any rate, you could use it as your excuse if anyone asks..."I retook my good score because several schools required the new MCAT." Just make sure you can add "fortunately, the additional time allowed me to improve my score!" rather than "unfortunately, between all of the new material, the new format, and the lack of practice materials, I was unable to duplicate my prior performance."
I would still recommend keeping your MCAT and avoiding schools where it expires, rather than trying to retake...odds are you won't improve, and the time investment of studying for the new one makes it completely not worth it, in my book, for the limited gain you will see. But if you decide to go the crazy wasted-effort route, at least it probably won't actively hurt you during this transitional period (as it well may have if you had tried retaking a 33 without the cloud cover of the transition.)
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
Your score was in line with your practice tests.
It sucks but that's how it goes sometimes. You need to get atleast a 36 for it to be worth it.
It sucks but that's how it goes sometimes. You need to get atleast a 36 for it to be worth it.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
h
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2011
- Messages
- 1,870
- Reaction score
- 1,406
Don't retake, getting a 3.7 from MIT gives your numbers enough pizazz. 33 is a good score and you're not a lock at the big schools with a 37 anyway.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,781
- Reaction score
- 2,203
Do not retake a 33. Nothing good can come of this unless you drop like a 40, which would be enough for people to say "Oh, okay." The risk is way higher, as is the investment. Even a 36 is only 3 points more, it won't look great. Your stats, the 33, and good ECs will be enough. Obviously you can't guarantee an acceptance anywhere, but I think you're in good shape.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
Okay now I'm really conflicted......
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2013
- Messages
- 586
- Reaction score
- 643
So my initial thought for you was go ahead and retake it if you want. But honestly, if you really want to get into a top school, what you need is not a better MCAT, but rather something that makes you stand out.
How many hours will you spend studying for the new mcat? 300? 500? How else could you spend that time? What if you used that extra time to start/organize a volunteer group for something you are passionate about? Now THAT would set you apart from someone that just got a 37 on their MCAT.
So my point is, a 33 is a good enough score for top schools. Now you need to spend the rest of your limited amount of time figuring out how to stand out. And getting a 37 on your MCAT is not standing out at Columbia.
Sent from my iPhone
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
- Messages
- 1,981
- Reaction score
- 3,363
Depending on how you feel really. I did not think twice about retaking a 33 because the material felt very accessible to me and I just didn't study enough the first time and I got what I needed in the end with a 5+ points increase. 33 is a good score, but it's nice to get a score that's good enough for any school. One less thing to worry about.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,902
- Reaction score
- 1,538
If you want to aim for Manhattan or Cali schools, 33 is not competitive. If your averages were higher on practice tests, and you really want to aim for that caliber of school, you need a higher MCAT. A 33 is close to 10th percentile for them.
Even if schools "look down" on retaking solid scores, they "look down" on lower than average scores more. If you feel confident you can raise it to 36+ (or whatever equivalent), then go ahead.
Not really. Getting a 37 AND having excellent extracurriculars is standing out at Columbia. OP already seems to have some great ECs, the MCAT is the weakest part of his application.
This reasoning is sort of messed up. If the applicant doesn't retake, top schools likely won't invite him for interview. If he does retake, it apparently looks bad.
If he retakes a 33 and gets higher, but applies to schools with ~33 as median, then it may look bad. If he retakes it, gets higher, and applies to schools who have ~36 medians, why would it ever look bad? The person accomplished something those schools value greatly.
Even if schools "look down" on retaking solid scores, they "look down" on lower than average scores more. If you feel confident you can raise it to 36+ (or whatever equivalent), then go ahead.
Not really. Getting a 37 AND having excellent extracurriculars is standing out at Columbia. OP already seems to have some great ECs, the MCAT is the weakest part of his application.
This reasoning is sort of messed up. If the applicant doesn't retake, top schools likely won't invite him for interview. If he does retake, it apparently looks bad.
If he retakes a 33 and gets higher, but applies to schools with ~33 as median, then it may look bad. If he retakes it, gets higher, and applies to schools who have ~36 medians, why would it ever look bad? The person accomplished something those schools value greatly.
Last edited:
You're wrong. The average at the very top schools is like 36. That means half the kids at those schools are scoring below that. If you think there aren't 33's in the mix, you're just not paying attention to statistics.
Even if the OP got a 37, which is truly impressive score and in no way a guarantee, I bet many adcoms would still wonder why he/she retook a 33. I'm trying to think of ways in which this would be worth it, and honestly I can't. The OP should be proud of a very good score and run with it. Of course they there is no guarantee at all that they will get into the school of their choice, but there was never that guarantee.
If going to one of these schools is ESSENTIAL, then the OP would be much better served taking time off and doing something really substantive after undergrad. Retaking a 33 though, is not that.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
O______________O
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,902
- Reaction score
- 1,538
Yes 33 is an excellent score, and more than enough to get into medical school. I am speaking towards OPs specific goals though; obviously he isn't aiming for "any" medical school - whether that's good or bad isn't really the point of the thread. Of course 33s are in the mix, never denied that, but they aren't really competitive.
MSAR 10-90% MCAT:
Cornell: 32-40
Columbia: 32-40
NYU: 32-39
Sinai: 33-40
Yes OP will need something substantive in his app to stand out at these schools; but something substantive coupled with an impressive MCAT is what will give him the best shot. His ECs are already great from what I see in the first post. Adcoms here have said themselves people in the lower end of the stats are unusual in many ways (URM, extraordinary life stories etc, some crazy activities), and that's not something OP can control easily. What he can do is couple his great activities with an up-to-par score, which will take a few more months of studying. Trying to "make up" for a 33 with an extraordinary activity can take years.
In his current situation it's not impossible, but it's also not ideal.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 4,963
- Reaction score
- 2,959
Those 33s are very likely to be urms. If op is a urm then I would agree with your advice. However I don't believe he is and his mcat will put him at the bottom 10th percentile at most of the schools he is aiming for. As the other poster said this is likely not competitive.
If op did go and score a 37 it would definitely be worth it. Why would a school that basically requires 35+ mcat scores question why someone retook a 33? That doesn't make any sense at all.
The real question is if it worth the risk and effort to get this 37+. I could go either way on that one
I agree with all of this, but I still disagree with retaking a 33. Perhaps an adcom can weigh in, but I just don't see it worth it unless the OP absolutely knocked it out of the park.
Regardless, I think the real moral of the story here is that Manhattan and Cali are two of the most exclusive areas in the country in terms of medical school admissions (And really life in general). You cannot guarantee admission in these places under almost any circumstances. OP from what I can see you've got enough to get into medical school now. Perhaps it wouldn't be exactly where you want, but do you really want to mess with your chances by retaking a 33? If you score lower or even similarly, I can't imagine it being productive for you. Is that really what you want right now?
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 618
- Reaction score
- 829
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
- Messages
- 1,981
- Reaction score
- 3,363
Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a lot easier to get into a NYC school than a Cali school. Especially as a resident in the respective states. The level of risk really depends on OP's ability. AAMC practice tests average is a good reflection. It also depends on why OP scored a 33 in the first place.
I mean, I guess? I will say that's pretty nit-picky though considering Manhattan has 4 schools in the "Top 20."
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2005
- Messages
- 28,705
- Reaction score
- 53,733
If the rest of your application is stellar and you think you otherwise have what it takes to get into a top tier school, you need to add at least 3 (or 6) points to your MCAT. (Six points for schools that will average your two scores.) If you think that you can accomplish that, go for it. Every year we interview at least one person who has done this and every year one adcom member says, "Who retakes a 33?" and I reply, "Someone who wants to go here." and we laugh because we know we would not have given the same applicant an interview with just the 33.
This is really interesting, thanks for the reply I myself was unaware. So the applicants that are on the lower side of that 36 average are those I'm assuming that have really incredible experiences otherwise? It didn't seem that a 33 was a huge distance from a 36, particularly with a history of having already scored a below a 36, but it seems like this really matters.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2005
- Messages
- 28,705
- Reaction score
- 53,733
Please keep in mind that the MCAT scores of accepted students are not normally distributed. The median score can be 36 but only 10% of the students below 34 (that's just 10-20 out of a 100-200 member class) and 5% at 34, 15% at 35, 25% at 36, 15% 37, 10% 38, 10% 39, 10% 40 or more. So although the median is 36, only 30% have an MCAT of < 36 and only 15% have an MCAT < 35. It is not correct to say that if the average is x then 50% have a score of < x.
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 356
- Reaction score
- 246
The problem I see with a retake OP is that you scored around your MCAT practice averages. You scored right where you should have. A 33 is a good score that will get you into a good school.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
Would lower ranked schools pass up applicants like this since they're essentially revealing that they don't want to go there at all? If someone scores a 36 outright, then that's one thing, but retaking a 33 means they're aiming for the top programs and delaying their app (at times) to do that.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
- Messages
- 1,981
- Reaction score
- 3,363
There is a risk. But a 36 wouldn't be high enough to cause that problem. 38+ maybe. It also depends on other factors. If the applicants' research experiences way outweigh his or her clinical ones, then it makes the mid tier think twice before extending an II. Just my opinion though. I've known people with 36 getting II at almost every school to which he applied--there were 30 schools encompassing all tiers of schools. I, on the other hand, with a LizzyM>76 and strong research, did not hear back from most mid tier and OOS schools for II.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 130
- Reaction score
- 48
Will talk to premed advisors after the holiday break... (they will probs tell me it's up to me in the end)... but I think I'll aim to retake!
Thanks for all the advice guys
Thanks for all the advice guys
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
Nah it's more that someone is retaking a score that's fine for most schools and trying to do better even though the first score isn't expired.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2014
- Messages
- 1,609
- Reaction score
- 1,749
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,902
- Reaction score
- 1,538
Do people on this board not know what a troll actually is? Most people throw the word around incorrectly...
Not really. FFH is saying that schools that value higher MCATs (>35) won't look down on the retake for a higher score. Schools that have ~33 medians would, because in their eyes the applicant is trying to do better.
Even if a score is fine for "most schools", the schools that have high MCAT medians aren't going to look down on a retake for a higher score. Why would they? If the applicant didn't retake, they likely wouldn't give them an II.
Not really. FFH is saying that schools that value higher MCATs (>35) won't look down on the retake for a higher score. Schools that have ~33 medians would, because in their eyes the applicant is trying to do better.
Even if a score is fine for "most schools", the schools that have high MCAT medians aren't going to look down on a retake for a higher score. Why would they? If the applicant didn't retake, they likely wouldn't give them an II.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
That was my point...
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 1,902
- Reaction score
- 1,538
I suppose I'm misunderstanding, but I'm saying that schools with high MCATs aren't going to view an applicant negatively even if their score is "fine for most schools."
You started out with "Nah..." so I assumed you were disagreeing.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,228
- Reaction score
- 855
Man the MCAT is miserable.. I was scoring 36-38 on all the practice tests. I scored higher than a friend of mine on EVERY practice test. We took the exact same test on the same day and he walked out with a 38 and I with around what you got. I was pretty upset, I felt like the test was designed specifically to hit all my weaknesses. It is an unpredictable mindcramp of 3 hours and unless you can pretty much guarantee a 37+ I wouldn't even look at exam krackers every again. Basically if you score 36 or less it is a mistake. The practice tests were NOTHING like the real deal IMO so saying I averaged 37 on pract test meant nothing. Not to mention the 2015 exam will be hard to prep for IMO.
I ended up with a whole bunch of interviews and will be going to a solid MD school in the fall and so will you 🙂. If you are determined for the manhattan programs, I interviewed at Albert Einstein who has a pretty impressive match list where many students go into the schools you mentioned above. It's more about how well you do in med school than simply what school you attend. You can still end up in top program for residency, which is more important anyway!
Oh an also, never feel entitled or that you deserve or "earned" any spot or school due to any past experience/college/anything... it will just make you more frustrated.
I ended up with a whole bunch of interviews and will be going to a solid MD school in the fall and so will you 🙂. If you are determined for the manhattan programs, I interviewed at Albert Einstein who has a pretty impressive match list where many students go into the schools you mentioned above. It's more about how well you do in med school than simply what school you attend. You can still end up in top program for residency, which is more important anyway!
Oh an also, never feel entitled or that you deserve or "earned" any spot or school due to any past experience/college/anything... it will just make you more frustrated.
Do you mean inflated?
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
Haha, I started out with 'nah' like 'nah, thats not what i meant'.
I'll be more clear, I agree that post was poorly worded.
I think retaking a score like a 33 is unfortunately a 'must do' if you're interested in top programs, otherwise, as LizzyM said, they won't look at you. I think there's a difference between getting a 36 outright and retaking to get it. Why? Because top schools know you retook because you were aiming for them and lower ranked schools feel like you waited longer to apply because you wouldn't be content there. Getting a 36 outright means that you just did well and could still be interested in those programs. Retaking a solid score for certain programs implies that you were aiming higher. I doubt this is what it comes down to though.
Does that make a bit more sense?
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
- Messages
- 8,147
- Reaction score
- 7,732
AE is in the bronx, not manhattan.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 1,228
- Reaction score
- 855
I didn't say it was in manhattan..... I said they match into schools in manhattan. Did you read? Here's a direct quote so you can again... "If you are determined for the manhattan programs, I interviewed at Albert Einstein who has a pretty impressive match list where many students go into the schools you mentioned above." My point being landing a top residency is more important than attending a top school. OP's chances are tiny and he may have to go somewhere like Albert Einstein where he can still match into manhattan programs.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
- Messages
- 1,981
- Reaction score
- 3,363
@Lamel @ridethecliche
🙂
I did not address the "how the mid tier schools view the act of retaking a 33" issue in my post. I can see that being a issue. But then again, mid tier schools do interviews top students who obvious would have higher aims with the hope of catching some from time to time. I retook MCAT after my first score which was between 32-35. I did hear back from all the mid/low tier schools in my home state with II but one from which I withdrew. I went to one of them and got in.
🙂
I did not address the "how the mid tier schools view the act of retaking a 33" issue in my post. I can see that being a issue. But then again, mid tier schools do interviews top students who obvious would have higher aims with the hope of catching some from time to time. I retook MCAT after my first score which was between 32-35. I did hear back from all the mid/low tier schools in my home state with II but one from which I withdrew. I went to one of them and got in.
