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Yes.Title.
Am I crazy for passing up a full ride to state med school for a more prestigious med school?
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Would be interested to hear how many of the docs posting are speaking from experience/personal regret. Anybody in this thread a "top 5" graduate that feels it wasnt money well spent? If so, was it because you decided against research?
I will tell any HS student to take a full ride at a good State school over Ivy any Day. To me this is a no brainer. Probability will tell you that the same person would not be at a big disadvantage coming from a good state vs ivy league.
The issue is also that premeds are taught to despise the mention of money in the med school application process because "it's not altruistic" but ultimately it does boil down to that. And while money doesn't/can't buy happiness it does buy peace of mind and security, especially when you have a family to look after. Premeds should understand the debt burden is theirs alone and no one is going to pay it off for you (yes I know about the public service loan forgiveness stuff - but that's a different story and thread). You really have to look at this carefully and definitely take it into account during the early stages because it can snow ball out of control.
What people forget is that top schools have deep pockets which translates to incredible financial aid. Almost no one out there is paying sticker price for an undergraduate degree from a prestigious university; if they are, they can definitely afford it.
Depending on the field you want to go into, your school's name can make all the difference on getting that first job.
When it comes to medical school, I think your point stands, though. I have 0 data to base this on, but I think the "name" advantage is much more important for undergrad than med school.
Top 50 is not enough resolution. Im assuming your school is around rank 50 to 40. If so i dont think its worth itSide question, even without a scholarship is the reduced cost of a state school always the way to go? Even if the OOS state seemed a lot better?
For me it’s comparing a 6 year old state school to a well known top 50
I agree it definitely depends a little on the schools, but in general yes - take the free ride. If your state school is not at all well respected/has many probs/you think you would be so much more happy at the prestigious school for legit reason then that's one thing. But picking a school ranked 10/20 over a school ranked 40/50/60 doesn't seem necessary
Thanks for sharing your story. This is exactly what I meant when I said if you would be much happier at the private school and the public school really lacks opportunities then you should choose private if you want. This is not the case for all state vs private school comparisons ofc so everyone should look hard at their individual situations such as Boola Boy didtl;dr What are your goals? Go to the school that will help you get there. The beauty of choice is that you can use your own values, your own internal compass to guide you.
This applies to me.
The ranking is Top 10, private vs. Top 100 (yes, that is 100) flagship state school. Scholarship at both schools, but COL makes the difference such that the state school will be much cheaper overall. ~50k/yr vs ~20k/yr are some rough estimates.
However, state school is in a place that I do not find interesting, whereas private school is in a much more interesting location, potentially in the state/region of the country where I want to settle down. In terms of my career interests, I want to match in the state where the private school is located. If not there, I want to match in the surrounding states. So the private option looks better.
For the state school, in order to pursue research in my desired specialty, I would have to go to a different regional campus during the summer. I don't know the field well enough to know whether there are notable names at the home institution of the state school, but if I wanted to get into my desired residency in my desired location, I would definitely have to do aways ($$$). Private option still looks better.
In terms of what career I want...I thought at first private practice because like everyone on this board seems to think, more money = better life, no questions asked. However, after having discussions with multiple physicians whom I look up to, it seems that my values and interests (hint: work life balance, time away from work, vacation time) are more aligned with an academic career. The private school I got into would undoubtedly help me attain the academic career that I seek.
To summarize, private school has a better location, better network, better research opportunities, and a better curriculum (lots of free time to explore other interests), whereas my state school is cheaper.
So for me, personally, private > state school. But that's just me.
Hopefully my personal story will help you make your own decision. Or at least give you the confidence to make a decision that maybe other people might not agree with.
The way I see it, you can always make more money, but you can never get your time back. Yes, I will have to pay back the loans. Perhaps that is the price that I choose to pay for my own personal journey.
Ultimately it's a very personal decision. The hard part is deciding for yourself.
Oh yeah, one more thing. From a temperamental standpoint, I am more comfortable with risk than most. So I'm totally fine with investing over the long term and expecting the return on my investments to outperform the interest on my loans. I'm not saying that I'm not going to pay down my loans at all, but that my general approach to personal finance is not quite as conservative as what you'll find on internet forums.
tl;dr What are your goals? Go to the school that will help you get there. The beauty of choice is that you can use your own values, your own internal compass to guide you.
This applies to me.
The ranking is Top 10, private vs. Top 100 (yes, that is 100) flagship state school. Scholarship at both schools, but COL makes the difference such that the state school will be much cheaper overall. ~50k/yr vs ~20k/yr are some rough estimates.
However, state school is in a place that I do not find interesting, whereas private school is in a much more interesting location, potentially in the state/region of the country where I want to settle down. In terms of my career interests, I want to match in the state where the private school is located. If not there, I want to match in the surrounding states. So the private option looks better.
For the state school, in order to pursue research in my desired specialty, I would have to go to a different regional campus during the summer. I don't know the field well enough to know whether there are notable names at the home institution of the state school, but if I wanted to get into my desired residency in my desired location, I would definitely have to do aways ($$$). Private option still looks better.
In terms of what career I want...I thought at first private practice because like everyone on this board seems to think, more money = better life, no questions asked. However, after having discussions with multiple physicians whom I look up to, it seems that my values and interests (hint: work life balance, time away from work, vacation time) are more aligned with an academic career. The private school I got into would undoubtedly help me attain the academic career that I seek.
To summarize, private school has a better location, better network, better research opportunities, and a better curriculum (lots of free time to explore other interests), whereas my state school is cheaper.
So for me, personally, private > state school. But that's just me.
Hopefully my personal story will help you make your own decision. Or at least give you the confidence to make a decision that maybe other people might not agree with.
The way I see it, you can always make more money, but you can never get your time back. Yes, I will have to pay back the loans. Perhaps that is the price that I choose to pay for my own personal journey.
Ultimately it's a very personal decision. The hard part is deciding for yourself.
Oh yeah, one more thing. From a temperamental standpoint, I am more comfortable with risk than most. So I'm totally fine with investing over the long term and expecting the return on my investments to outperform the interest on my loans. I'm not saying that I'm not going to pay down my loans at all, but that my general approach to personal finance is not quite as conservative as what you'll find on internet forums.
I feel like this post has a lot of opinions that aren't clearly marked as opinions. For example, 'school matters when it comes to residency' (even though many many people say it doesn't and that PD's don't judge people for choosing their state school for financial reasons or they say 'as long as the school is decently well respected it'), 'rank lists don't lie' (so much is the priorities of the students...), 'some have progressive stances on depression' (what? and other schools outside the T10 don't?). Many schools don't rank students - that is not a T10 thing. Your situation is one thing but maybe OP does know what consulting is - maybe OP wants to do primary care and doesn't care about consulting. It's an interesting note that you feel like gaining that social knowledge has helped you coming from a first-gen background, but I think OP should evaluate that their situation could very likely be much different from yours and they might not need to gain all that social knowledge about Goldman that you felt you did.Hey, I would take the top 10 school. The top 10 schools will open up doors that you might not even know exist. When it comes to applying to residency, interviewing for residency, doing a dual degree, consulting, McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Rhodes Scholarship. When I started medical school, I had no idea what all of those things even were. I am a first gen kid. Never even heard of consulting. Never heard of the Rhodes. 5 years later, I have a dual degree, made serious connections, took law school classes and business classes at top law and business schools and built capital in the "elite" world. I had a tough ride too, and tbh the top schools support you more. Some don't have clinical grades etc. Some have progressive stances on depression, raising a child etc. If it wasn't for these things probably I would not have made it. Many of my friends would not have made it. Not being ranked helps etc. I think its even more important if you are poor, you are coming from rural Appalachia or the inner city. The social/professional capital from a top school needs to be weighed with the financial.
People will tell you it doesnt matter but the rank lists dont lie. School matters when it comes to residency. And we are not any smarter than anyone. Its not fair but its the truth. If you have a failure on a USMLE etc. it helps if you school produced loads of all program directors in the field and your Dean can work phones for you before the process, or get you an away rotation on the power of your schools name.
Now, if its UNC vs. Harvard and UNC is free. Dude, go to UNC!!!! UNC, UCs, UMich are solid. If its SUNY Upstate, def take the top 10/top 25 whatever.
Hey, I would take the top 10 school. The top 10 schools will open up doors that you might not even know exist. When it comes to applying to residency, interviewing for residency, doing a dual degree, consulting, McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Rhodes Scholarship. When I started medical school, I had no idea what all of those things even were. I am a first gen kid. Never even heard of consulting. Never heard of the Rhodes. 5 years later, I have a dual degree, made serious connections, took law school classes and business classes at top law and business schools and built capital in the "elite" world. I had a tough ride too, and tbh the top schools support you more. Some don't have clinical grades etc. Some have progressive stances on depression, raising a child etc. If it wasn't for these things probably I would not have made it. Many of my friends would not have made it. Not being ranked helps etc. I think its even more important if you are poor, you are coming from rural Appalachia or the inner city. The social/professional capital from a top school needs to be weighed with the financial.
People will tell you it doesnt matter but the rank lists dont lie. School matters when it comes to residency. And we are not any smarter than anyone. Its not fair but its the truth. If you have a failure on a USMLE etc. it helps if you school produced loads of all program directors in the field and your Dean can work phones for you before the process, or get you an away rotation on the power of your schools name.
Now, if its UNC vs. Harvard and UNC is free. Dude, go to UNC!!!! UNC, UCs, UMich are solid. If its SUNY Upstate, def take the top 10/top 25 whatever.
Agreed. Hopefully OP can take your positive experience at a top school and the benefits you feel you have gotten into account as well as the financial aspects that many current attendings have mentioned with their experiences. Of course, OP it really depends so much on the schools in question and how much you like each one, etc, but all the best in your decision making process!Great response. Thank you. I will say in reply that your school's reputation does play a role in residency admissions.
https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf
You can take a look here at data from the NRMP. Yes, it is not the most important thing and you can do academic medicine at a top 10 school even with a DO or a Carribean MD. The best residents I've met are actually from DO and Carribean schools full stop because they had to be that much better than the rest.... but it matters.
To the comments I made about depression, ranking etc. it has been my experience that schools with stronger reputations tend to have more flexibility with their curriculums HMS/Stanford with P/F clinical year, not having AOA. This is not limited to top 10 schools, but I think an unranked school would be more likely to have AOA, ranking, H/HP/P grading. This is all my opinion though. I agree.
In summary, I think a top 10 school gives you opportunities in research, policy etc. that other schools may not have or may not be able to provide the funding or research. As you say, it is up to the individual to make the decision of what is best for them.
tl;dr What are your goals? Go to the school that will help you get there. The beauty of choice is that you can use your own values, your own internal compass to guide you.
This applies to me.
The ranking is Top 10, private vs. Top 100 (yes, that is 100) flagship state school. Scholarship at both schools, but COL makes the difference such that the state school will be much cheaper overall. ~50k/yr vs ~20k/yr are some rough estimates.
However, state school is in a place that I do not find interesting, whereas private school is in a much more interesting location, potentially in the state/region of the country where I want to settle down. In terms of my career interests, I want to match in the state where the private school is located. If not there, I want to match in the surrounding states. So the private option looks better.
For the state school, in order to pursue research in my desired specialty, I would have to go to a different regional campus during the summer. I don't know the field well enough to know whether there are notable names at the home institution of the state school, but if I wanted to get into my desired residency in my desired location, I would definitely have to do aways ($$$). Private option still looks better.
In terms of what career I want...I thought at first private practice because like everyone on this board seems to think, more money = better life, no questions asked. However, after having discussions with multiple physicians whom I look up to, it seems that my values and interests (hint: work life balance, time away from work, vacation time) are more aligned with an academic career. The private school I got into would undoubtedly help me attain the academic career that I seek.
To summarize, private school has a better location, better network, better research opportunities, and a better curriculum (lots of free time to explore other interests), whereas my state school is cheaper.
So for me, personally, private > state school. But that's just me.
Hopefully my personal story will help you make your own decision. Or at least give you the confidence to make a decision that maybe other people might not agree with.
The way I see it, you can always make more money, but you can never get your time back. Yes, I will have to pay back the loans. Perhaps that is the price that I choose to pay for my own personal journey.
Ultimately it's a very personal decision. The hard part is deciding for yourself.
Oh yeah, one more thing. From a temperamental standpoint, I am more comfortable with risk than most. So I'm totally fine with investing over the long term and expecting the return on my investments to outperform the interest on my loans. I'm not saying that I'm not going to pay down my loans at all, but that my general approach to personal finance is not quite as conservative as what you'll find on internet forums.