Am I on track to be a T20 candidate?

[JakAttk]

Hi all, I'm looking to apply next cycle, and my confidence wavers between feeling like a top school candidate and being doubtful that I'll get in anywhere, so I'm looking for some level-headed opinions on how I'm doing. Here's what I expect my app to look like when I apply assuming I keep doing what I'm doing.

Stats:
Top public university
Biochem B.S.
~3.94 sGPA and cGPA
527 MCAT

Experiences:
1500 hours of research, 50/50 chance of a publication (probably 2nd or 3rd author) by the time I apply
800-1000 hours of clinical experience, mostly working as a CNA with a bit of clinical volunteering
20 hours of shadowing ~4 physicians
150 hours of non-clinical volunteering, including twice weekly tutoring with underprivileged students my senior year and some work with animals

Writing:
No super unique story, but I think I'm a solid writer and will be able to explain my passion for medicine.
LoR from PI should be strong, the rest will probably be average

Other:
Hobbies include language learning, cooking

So my main question is, on this track what tier of schools should I focus the bulk of my list on? Also, what can I do in the next 8 months to strengthen my application? I know that non-clinical volunteering is probably my weakest point right now, but I'm struggling to find time for more than 2-3 hours per week at the moment.

Thanks for any advice and for the sanity check!

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[IlDestriero]

Your non clinical volunteering isn’t stellar. Don’t make the mistake of applying too top heavy. Every T20 applicant is checking all the boxes and bringing high scores.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I’d shadow a little more and volunteer more. Those numbers are low. But otherwise you’re looking solid.

You’re capable of applying to T20s, but there’s never a guarantee. I had a more competitive app than you (no offense intended, you’re doing awesome) and I didn’t get in anywhere fancy. I only applied to like NYU and Vandy and WashU though, I skipped Harvard/hopkins/etc.

My point is you never know. Apply to your in state MD and even a reputable DO school or two. People would tell me I’m crazy for suggesting that but I just think crazy stuff happens sometimes and you might as well hedge your bets with an extra $100 (yes, I know it’s a lot of money)

If you apply broadly though I can say with confidence you’ll get into at least a single med school. Even if it’s the safety school on your list. Unless you’re a serial felon or something.

 

[JakAttk]

I’d shadow a little more and volunteer more. Those numbers are low. But otherwise you’re looking solid.

You’re capable of applying to T20s, but there’s never a guarantee. I had a more competitive app than you (no offense intended, you’re doing awesome) and I didn’t get in anywhere fancy. I only applied to like NYU and Vandy and WashU though, I skipped Harvard/hopkins/etc.

My point is you never know. Apply to your in state MD and even a reputable DO school or two. People would tell me I’m crazy for suggesting that but I just think crazy stuff happens sometimes and you might as well hedge your bets with an extra $100 (yes, I know it’s a lot of money)

If you apply broadly though I can say with confidence you’ll get into at least a single med school. Even if it’s the safety school on your list. Unless you’re a serial felon or something.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), my in-state MD's are either very competitive or focused on primary care, so it's difficult to lean on that. I'd rather avoid DO if possible, but I do appreciate the advice!

 

[Goro]

Unfortunately (or fortunately), my in-state MD's are either very competitive or focused on primary care, so it's difficult to lean on that. I'd rather avoid DO if possible, but I do appreciate the advice!

Save DO for next year's cycle if you get shut out of this one.

I agree that more service to others less fortunate than your self will make your app really competitive.

Also keep in mind that there are at least 30 Scholls in the "T20".

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Presuming this is not a formal WAMC check-up since we don't know your state of residence or if you're an international student. You aren't applying until next cycle, so that means you have time to read SDN articles. For example:

Training for the Marathon: SDN Resources to Submit Your Best Application - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Finding Your Purpose as a Health Professional - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Mission Fit: Key to Your Success - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Write Your Secondary Essays First - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Finding Your Greatest Common Factors with Successful Students - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

A Strategic Guide to Letters of Recommendation - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

How to Assess Your Pre-Professional Competencies - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

If you are shooting for top tier brand medical schools, you're going to need at least 250 hours of service orientation activities when you submit your application (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, transportation services, housing rehabilitation). The applicant pool you want to swim in likely has at least a median of 500 hours or may have taken a gap year doing service before applying. Your tutoring doesn't break through as being unique since practically every premed applicants in your desired pool will likely have some teaching/tutoring/mentoring experience.

The only thing that speaks "teamwork" to me is your CRNA work in this profile. You need more non-academic activities that affirm your interpersonal skills. Your admission of only getting one strong LOR (from your research PI) despite having a 3.9+ GPA/likely (magna or summa cum laude) at your school concerns me. There aren't that many biochem majors at your school, is there?

 

[surelycalm]

You need more underserved volunteering. I'd recommend food pantry and perhaps working with Veterans. Try to get that total to at least 400 hours.
With a 527, you will stand out, less than 100 people will be applying with a 527/528. Just make sure you can tell a proper why medicine and proper narrative for your other activities.

I still wouldn't recommend only applying T20. It's still a crapshoot.

 

[AJS59]

The above users gave good advice. You are can shoot your shot at the T20s but honestly with the exception for stellar candidates (and when I mean stellar we're talking Rhodes scholars, olympic athletes, etc.) no one can or should apply with the expectation of getting into a T20. It becomes a lottery at that point. Would advise applying broadly to schools that fit your mission, in addition to your home state schools.

Regardless, you're still on track to apply next cycle. Frankly if you had applied this cycle I would say you'd have a fairly good chance at a lot of MD schools, and next year you'll have that solidified. Of course, that also comes with good writing, LORs, interviewing skills, early submission, etc.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hi all, I'm looking to apply next cycle, and my confidence wavers between feeling like a top school candidate and being doubtful that I'll get in anywhere, so I'm looking for some level-headed opinions on how I'm doing. Here's what I expect my app to look like when I apply assuming I keep doing what I'm doing.

Stats:
Top public university
Biochem B.S.
~3.94 sGPA and cGPA
527 MCAT

Experiences:
1500 hours of research, 50/50 chance of a publication (probably 2nd or 3rd author) by the time I apply
800-1000 hours of clinical experience, mostly working as a CNA with a bit of clinical volunteering
20 hours of shadowing ~4 physicians
150 hours of non-clinical volunteering, including twice weekly tutoring with underprivileged students my senior year and some work with animals

Writing:
No super unique story, but I think I'm a solid writer and will be able to explain my passion for medicine.
LoR from PI should be strong, the rest will probably be average

Other:
Hobbies include language learning, cooking

So my main question is, on this track what tier of schools should I focus the bulk of my list on? Also, what can I do in the next 8 months to strengthen my application? I know that non-clinical volunteering is probably my weakest point right now, but I'm struggling to find time for more than 2-3 hours per week at the moment.

Thanks for any advice and for the sanity check!

Your definitely on track to apply next cycle and applying to the top tier makes sense. However, don't apply exclusively in the top tier. That's gambling, and I'm not a gambler. As was recommended, apply to IS schools as well as to out of state programs that match your interests and have a high percentage of OOS students. You can google for that info.

To strengthen your application:
1. Increase your non-clinical volunteering commitments.
2. Journal about your clinical experiences, volunteering experiences and even your research. What did you learn? How did you feel? What were the results of your actions for others. How did you interact with others and perhaps even overcome interpersonal difficulties. You don't have to write about everything in your med school apps, but having a journal will be a great resource for you.
3. I'm not sure if you'll have such an opportunity before you apply, but if you could assume a leadership role, it would add to your app, unless you already have them and just didn't write about them.

 

[premed123321]

I applied this cycle with the similar hour counts (little less research, little more clinical experience and volunteering) and slightly lower stats. You can see how its going for me in my signature (I'll most likely get into medical school, but am certainly not in the double digit II camp).

 

[TheRealBibFortuna]

I applied this cycle with the similar hour counts (little less research, little more clinical experience and volunteering) and slightly lower stats. You can see how its going for me in my signature (I'll most likely get into medical school, but am certainly not in the double digit II camp).

Same boat app-wise, just with an inflated II count because of how many baseline/safeties I applied to. OP will probably get into a T20, but then again, people said the same thing to me, and I will be cutting it close.

 

[JakAttk]

Presuming this is not a formal WAMC check-up since we don't know your state of residence or if you're an international student. You aren't applying until next cycle, so that means you have time to read SDN articles. For example:

Training for the Marathon: SDN Resources to Submit Your Best Application - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Finding Your Purpose as a Health Professional - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Mission Fit: Key to Your Success - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Write Your Secondary Essays First - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Finding Your Greatest Common Factors with Successful Students - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

A Strategic Guide to Letters of Recommendation - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

How to Assess Your Pre-Professional Competencies - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

If you are shooting for top tier brand medical schools, you're going to need at least 250 hours of service orientation activities when you submit your application (food distribution, shelter volunteer, job/tax preparation, transportation services, housing rehabilitation). The applicant pool you want to swim in likely has at least a median of 500 hours or may have taken a gap year doing service before applying. Your tutoring doesn't break through as being unique since practically every premed applicants in your desired pool will likely have some teaching/tutoring/mentoring experience.

The only thing that speaks "teamwork" to me is your CRNA work in this profile. You need more non-academic activities that affirm your interpersonal skills. Your admission of only getting one strong LOR (from your research PI) despite having a 3.9+ GPA/likely (magna or summa cum laude) at your school concerns me. There aren't that many biochem majors at your school, is there?

I did spend a summer volunteering at a free clinic in my hometown, which totaled about 100 hours (which I counted under clinical). Would you consider that a "service orientation activity" or are you talking more about non-clinical? Thanks!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I did spend a summer volunteering at a free clinic in my hometown, which totaled about 100 hours (which I counted under clinical). Would you consider that a "service orientation activity" or are you talking more about non-clinical? Thanks!

More nonclinical activity will help, but it depends on what you did in the clinic.

 

[JakAttk]

More nonclinical activity will help, but it depends on what you did in the clinic.

Mostly helping out at the front desk, checking people in, taking vitals, etc. but I plan on writing about the community aspect because that's what struck me the most. The patients knew the staff and would often come in for help with non-medical things, which was really cool to me.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Get another few hundred hours of service to those less fortunate than yourself. Sometimes, there is some wiggle room in classifying your activities as clinical vs. nonclinical. Don't be dishonest, but there's often room for interpretation. Finally: WashU and other high-stat-loving schools will love you. You've got a great chance at T20 interviews, although acceptance is a crapshoot. You'd be pack fodder, but towards the stronger end of pack fodder.


Why do you want to go to a top-20 school? Agree with Goro - you're more than fine to go MD-only and should get several interviews. Top 20s are definitely on the table, too, if you're lucky...

 

[KaiBuzz]

Look for non-clinical volunteer opportunities that also provide leadership paths like Boston Cares.

 

[JakAttk]

Get another few hundred hours of service to those less fortunate than yourself. Sometimes, there is some wiggle room in classifying your activities as clinical vs. nonclinical. Don't be dishonest, but there's often room for interpretation. Finally: WashU and other high-stat-loving schools will love you. You've got a great chance at T20 interviews, although acceptance is a crapshoot. You'd be pack fodder, but towards the stronger end of pack fodder.


Why do you want to go to a top-20 school? Agree with Goro - you're more than fine to go MD-only and should get several interviews. Top 20s are definitely on the table, too, if you're lucky...

I don't have my heart set on going to a T20. My goal was more to decide what range to focus my school list on, and to ensure I'll be a candidate somewhere! Obviously stuff like admit.org or any of the scoring things say I should apply mostly T20, so I wanted a bit of a sanity check.

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I don't have my heart set on going to a T20. My goal was more to decide what range to focus my school list on, and to ensure I'll be a candidate somewhere! Obviously stuff like admit.org or any of the scoring things say I should apply mostly T20, so I wanted a bit of a sanity check.

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice.

I mean. As you sit, you've barely checked the box for nonclinical service hours although some of the high-stat lovers like WashU might bite. If you were able to get an additional 300 nonclinical hours your list should look like this:

10-15 top 20s
5-8 midtiers
Your state schools

What are your language skills like? If you're fluent in Spanish or close to it, that might be a bit of a plus, especially at the UC schools.

I think I'm looking at pack fodder for top 20s, and towards the front half of the pack. Admission is a crapshoot but it is likely you'll get T20 interviews.

 

[JakAttk]

I mean. As you sit, you've barely checked the box for nonclinical service hours although some of the high-stat lovers like WashU might bite. If you were able to get an additional 300 nonclinical hours your list should look like this:

10-15 top 20s
5-8 midtiers
Your state schools

What are your language skills like? If you're fluent in Spanish or close to it, that might be a bit of a plus, especially at the UC schools.

I think I'm looking at pack fodder for top 20s, and towards the front half of the pack. Admission is a crapshoot but it is likely you'll get T20 interviews.

I'm conversational in Spanish, but would need to brush up for sure. I have no Hispanic heritage, it was just a COVID project of mine. 300 hours might be tough, but I'll get as many as I can.

I'll probably plan on doing equal numbers of top school and mid tiers, plus my state schools.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

It's less about number of hours (those mostly matter for showing devotion over a long period of time) and more that you need a narrative and activities that support that narrative/mission

Like some other people said about their cycles so far - you'd get many interviews probably (and likely at non narrative focused schools/stat lovers like WashU/NYU/etc), but converting those interviews is really difficult without a narrative/set plan and history of what type of physician you want to be.

If you look on admit.org like you referred to, a lot of t10-20 have pretty low post-interview conversion rates. WashU interviews 26% of applicants (which is a lot and likely the people they see as a stat/mission fit), but then only 29% of those interviewees get acceptances (out of a large pool of qualified intreviewees). That difference usually comes down to narrative / fit / "does this student know what they want to be and how our school can get them there".

Yeah - the OP will need probably 5 T20 interviews to get an acceptance. I think no more than half OP's list should be top 20s and they need a dozen midtiers and state schools. They don't need to go DO.