Am I selling myself short? Frustrated...need help!

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dylantanis

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Here's my story. It began a few months ago and it still continues. I've received some very informative PMs from older members and I really appreciate it. I wanted to share a bit more about myself and give a more in depth look. If you think some things are extraneous, my apologies...I'm trying to give a complete picture of myself beyond basic GPA/mcat scores.

Stats:
B.A. Mathematics:3.7 cumul, 4.0 math dept.
M.S. Mathematics: 4.0
I did a post bacc since my grades are really old.
Postbacc: 4.0, my committee letter states that I was the top student in that class
I entered the postbacc on the promise of a linkage program with Drexel, UMDNJ-Robert Woods, PCOM, UMDNJ-SOM

No one from my class got into med school from the linkage. Basically a false promise by the postbacc admissions director. Since then they have 'altered' the promise.

Age: 34, turning 35

MCATs:
Good news: 32
Bad news: 14P, 12V, 6B. I know my bio is low, but I didn't have much time to prepare due to my hectic schedule. If I re-take I think I can boost the bio up to a 8 or 9. I essentially brushed up on physics/gen chm & did no prep for bio. Just took a couple of practice exams and then went into the exam.

Research: NONE

Clinical experience: NONE

Volunteer: Tutored at a transitional home for abused women/children. I've had to stop doing this since I've moved further away from the home to get much cheaper housing.

Work: Teach at a prep school geared to 'at risk' students (i.e. 1st generation, etc) Since being there there math scores on SATs have dramatically increased.

Family bkgrd:
Father: MD/Ph.D. Yale --->faculty at a US med school --->short stint as surgeon general of Korea ---> started bio tech co --->director of nat'l cancer institute, Korea. When he was a poor, starving grad student with 3 kids, he discovered a surface protein that has ramifications to T-cells...his research involving that got subsequently sold to Bristol Meyers Squibb....a cancer drug is in the works involving that. BMS is in clinical trials in the US & my father's company is handling the trials outside of the US. A large portion of royalties go to the US med school that he used to be at.

Middle bro: law student
Youngest bro: US med student

Finances: I've used up a large portion of my Staffords. My credit was hit last year from the market downturn & forced to leave my corporate job. My debt became huge after no job. I was unemployed for a long time. I'm not eligible for grad plus.

I applied very late to US D.O. schools & 4 caribbean schools. A mad rush at the beginning of the year to get applications in.

After more thought, I concluded I definitely do not want to be a D.O. (wished I thought of this before spending on AACOMAS fees...) I applied VERY late. I made the Feb. 1 deadline. I was accepted to 3 out of the 14 I applied to.

I've been accepted to SGU for the fall, Saba/AUC/Ross for May.

SGU: Too expensive for me. $20K/semester for just tuition. I think you'd need about $30K/semester for everything. Staffords only give $20,500 per year. Also, I don't have enough in my Stafford aggregrate limit to go all 4 yrs of SGU

AUC: Cheaper in tuition, but its as expensive to live there as here (NYC) Their student budget is also approx. $30K/semester. Don't have enough in Stafford aggregrate limit.

Ross: Essentially same situation in terms of money.

Saba: Pay out of pocket for 2 semesters (supportive friends/family who are willing to put up for me to realize this goal) & then do Davenport online MBA program to fund the rest of my education.
It'll be a miserable existence since I won't have that much extra money. So it looks like a lot of rice & ramen.
Costs: $8500 for tuition $2200 for dorms 1st semester, second semester plan on getting a cheap apt ($300/mth), so $10.7K 1st semester, $9,700 for second semester and on....

My other option: Re-take mcats this summer & grab a couple more points in bio. Apply to US med schools. Take a year and repair the financial issues that I'm dealing with at the moment. (Not sure what that would entail)

My fears: Even with an improved bio section I don't get accepted. By then I'll be 35 turning 36.
Will I do more research/volunteer/clinical? Absolutely NOT. I don't have time for it. I'm just going to try to survive and repair whatever I need to.
Will I have a reliable co-signor for GradPlus? I don't think so.

Other fears: If I go to caribb I'm screwed when it comes to residency. Everyone knows how competitive it was this year and how much more it will be in the years to come.
Am I going for a competitive residency? Not sure yet.

Can I ask my parents for help? Nope. I'm too old to crawl back to them and frankly I would never ask my parents for any help. My father has accomplished a lot in his lifetime. Born in a small Korean village...moved to Seoul at the age of 14, top of his class in high school (survived by tutoring rich kids), Seoul Nat'l Uni for college/med school, top of class, moved to the US, had 3 boys while doing his Ph.D., blah blah blah...

Are they supportive of the Caribbean? Nope. Incredibly embarassed in fact. Considering that my youngest bro was never academically gifted and got into a top ranked US med school with a 31mcat & 3.6 gpa....they sort of don't understand how I can't go to a US school.

Actually, after I got accepted to the 4 caribb schools...I asked my father to ask around (he still has research facilities at Tulane & LSU med) his colleagues and see if they've ever heard of SGU/Ross/Saba/AUC and get their take on the offshore route, and he FLATLY said no. He will not be involved in the process at all. I don't think he wanted to admit that
his oldest son is going to the caribbean.
Didn't even congratulate me on any of the acceptances (US DO, caribb)

Its been a frustrating year. Should it be this hard to go to med school? Maybe its too late for me?

Some other fears: Say I get accepted to fall 2010 in the US. Are there any schools whose tuition is cheap enough that it can be taken care of without relying on any credit based loans, like GradPlus?

Should I wait out a year. I'd be teaching during that time and could probably save half a year's salary. I could also get a handle on my credit issues. Not sure however it would be repaired enough to get private loans.

Bottom line is I have a chance to go right now in May to Saba.

In conclusion:
1. may/may not get into US med. I've had friends with similar stats that did not get accepted. Actually my friend got a 36 and she tried for 3 yrs. Didn't get accepted so went to SGU and now is chief resident at Columbia.

2. even if get accepted, can I afford it?

3. should I just make the most out of the opportunities given to me? Go to Saba in May or am I forcing the issue?

4. Timeline for Saba: Start in May '09, finish basic sciences Dec. '10. Take a STEP 1 review retreat from Jan - end of Feb., Take STEP 1 in March. Get scores in April. Begin clinicals in May '11. Taking some breaks + STEP 2, be scheduled to finish by Dec. '12. Try to pre-match in 2012, if not enter match, graduate 2013.

Also, after taking STEP 1, if scores are stellar, try to transfer to a US school for 3rd & 4th year.

Sorry for the long post...And thank you in advance for any advice.

Members don't see this ad.
 
If you don't mind saying,

what US MD schools have you applied to and been turned down??
 
Here's my story. It began a few months ago and it still continues. I've received some very informative PMs from older members and I really appreciate it. I wanted to share a bit more about myself and give a more in depth look. If you think some things are extraneous, my apologies...I'm trying to give a complete picture of myself beyond basic GPA/mcat scores.

Stats:
B.A. Mathematics:3.7 cumul, 4.0 math dept.
M.S. Mathematics: 4.0
I did a post bacc since my grades are really old.
Postbacc: 4.0, my committee letter states that I was the top student in that class
I entered the postbacc on the promise of a linkage program with Drexel, UMDNJ-Robert Woods, PCOM, UMDNJ-SOM

No one from my class got into med school from the linkage. Basically a false promise by the postbacc admissions director. Since then they have 'altered' the promise.

Age: 34, turning 35

MCATs:
Good news: 32
Bad news: 14P, 12V, 6B. I know my bio is low, but I didn't have much time to prepare due to my hectic schedule. If I re-take I think I can boost the bio up to a 8 or 9. I essentially brushed up on physics/gen chm & did no prep for bio. Just took a couple of practice exams and then went into the exam.

Research: NONE

Clinical experience: NONE

Volunteer: Tutored at a transitional home for abused women/children. I've had to stop doing this since I've moved further away from the home to get much cheaper housing.

Work: Teach at a prep school geared to 'at risk' students (i.e. 1st generation, etc) Since being there there math scores on SATs have dramatically increased.

Family bkgrd:
Father: MD/Ph.D. Yale --->faculty at a US med school --->short stint as surgeon general of Korea ---> started bio tech co --->director of nat'l cancer institute, Korea. When he was a poor, starving grad student with 3 kids, he discovered a surface protein that has ramifications to T-cells...his research involving that got subsequently sold to Bristol Meyers Squibb....a cancer drug is in the works involving that. BMS is in clinical trials in the US & my father's company is handling the trials outside of the US. A large portion of royalties go to the US med school that he used to be at.

Middle bro: law student
Youngest bro: US med student

Finances: I've used up a large portion of my Staffords. My credit was hit last year from the market downturn & forced to leave my corporate job. My debt became huge after no job. I was unemployed for a long time. I'm not eligible for grad plus.

I applied very late to US D.O. schools & 4 caribbean schools. A mad rush at the beginning of the year to get applications in.

After more thought, I concluded I definitely do not want to be a D.O. (wished I thought of this before spending on AACOMAS fees...) I applied VERY late. I made the Feb. 1 deadline. I was accepted to 3 out of the 14 I applied to.

I've been accepted to SGU for the fall, Saba/AUC/Ross for May.

SGU: Too expensive for me. $20K/semester for just tuition. I think you'd need about $30K/semester for everything. Staffords only give $20,500 per year. Also, I don't have enough in my Stafford aggregrate limit to go all 4 yrs of SGU

AUC: Cheaper in tuition, but its as expensive to live there as here (NYC) Their student budget is also approx. $30K/semester. Don't have enough in Stafford aggregrate limit.

Ross: Essentially same situation in terms of money.

Saba: Pay out of pocket for 2 semesters (supportive friends/family who are willing to put up for me to realize this goal) & then do Davenport online MBA program to fund the rest of my education.
It'll be a miserable existence since I won't have that much extra money. So it looks like a lot of rice & ramen.
Costs: $8500 for tuition $2200 for dorms 1st semester, second semester plan on getting a cheap apt ($300/mth), so $10.7K 1st semester, $9,700 for second semester and on....

My other option: Re-take mcats this summer & grab a couple more points in bio. Apply to US med schools. Take a year and repair the financial issues that I'm dealing with at the moment. (Not sure what that would entail)

My fears: Even with an improved bio section I don't get accepted. By then I'll be 35 turning 36.
Will I do more research/volunteer/clinical? Absolutely NOT. I don't have time for it. I'm just going to try to survive and repair whatever I need to.
Will I have a reliable co-signor for GradPlus? I don't think so.

Other fears: If I go to caribb I'm screwed when it comes to residency. Everyone knows how competitive it was this year and how much more it will be in the years to come.
Am I going for a competitive residency? Not sure yet.

Can I ask my parents for help? Nope. I'm too old to crawl back to them and frankly I would never ask my parents for any help. My father has accomplished a lot in his lifetime. Born in a small Korean village...moved to Seoul at the age of 14, top of his class in high school (survived by tutoring rich kids), Seoul Nat'l Uni for college/med school, top of class, moved to the US, had 3 boys while doing his Ph.D., blah blah blah...

Are they supportive of the Caribbean? Nope. Incredibly embarassed in fact. Considering that my youngest bro was never academically gifted and got into a top ranked US med school with a 31mcat & 3.6 gpa....they sort of don't understand how I can't go to a US school.

Actually, after I got accepted to the 4 caribb schools...I asked my father to ask around (he still has research facilities at Tulane & LSU med) his colleagues and see if they've ever heard of SGU/Ross/Saba/AUC and get their take on the offshore route, and he FLATLY said no. He will not be involved in the process at all. I don't think he wanted to admit that
his oldest son is going to the caribbean.
Didn't even congratulate me on any of the acceptances (US DO, caribb)

Its been a frustrating year. Should it be this hard to go to med school? Maybe its too late for me?

Some other fears: Say I get accepted to fall 2010 in the US. Are there any schools whose tuition is cheap enough that it can be taken care of without relying on any credit based loans, like GradPlus?

Should I wait out a year. I'd be teaching during that time and could probably save half a year's salary. I could also get a handle on my credit issues. Not sure however it would be repaired enough to get private loans.

Bottom line is I have a chance to go right now in May to Saba.

In conclusion:
1. may/may not get into US med. I've had friends with similar stats that did not get accepted. Actually my friend got a 36 and she tried for 3 yrs. Didn't get accepted so went to SGU and now is chief resident at Columbia.

2. even if get accepted, can I afford it?

3. should I just make the most out of the opportunities given to me? Go to Saba in May or am I forcing the issue?

4. Timeline for Saba: Start in May '09, finish basic sciences Dec. '10. Take a STEP 1 review retreat from Jan - end of Feb., Take STEP 1 in March. Get scores in April. Begin clinicals in May '11. Taking some breaks + STEP 2, be scheduled to finish by Dec. '12. Try to pre-match in 2012, if not enter match, graduate 2013.

Also, after taking STEP 1, if scores are stellar, try to transfer to a US school for 3rd & 4th year.

Sorry for the long post...And thank you in advance for any advice.

Seems odd that you haven't gotten in anywhere with your stats. Did you apply to top tier schools? Apply too late?

If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely go DO. It is too risky to go Caribbean right now! As you saw how competitive this year's match was, it will only get worse. I think DO is a much safer bet than Carib MD.

If your brother got in with 31MCAT and 3.6 GPA, i'm surprised you haven't been able to get in anywhere.

Also what have you done during these years after school?

I would say either go DO now, potentially delay your start date to next year, and apply again to MD schools maybe less prestigious ones. I don't really see how you would not be able to get into one. I don't know if age could be a problem, but stats wise, you seem fine.

For sure, I would not go Carib like I said. Very very $$$, and it's a huge gamble.

Best of luck!
 
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why medicine?
 
Okay my formal 2 cents:

Bottom line is that you should get into some allopathic medical school in the US somewhere with those stats. Your GPA and overall MCAT score looks great, but I can see where the 6b could be a problem. Because of that, you may need to apply to the less competitive schools.

Above all, try the US MD schools first.

The DO vs MD vs carib MD is a tricky thing. If you ever plan to go back home to Korea, then you need to investigate if DOs are recognized there. If you plan to stay in the US, even though I know you don't want a DO, go the DO route before the Carib schools. If you are not a US citizen (I'm just taking into acount the info on your father), go the DO route. As a Carib grad, your age and citizenship status will count against you in the Match.

All of that being said, I am very interested to know why you want such a drastic career change. You obviously have been very dedicated to the field of mathematics for some time. Any degree in math is extremely tough to get, especially to the level that you have. And working with children in need? That is fantastic! :bow:

In the end, if your dream is to be a doctor, well, do anything it takes to get you there. Regardless of what other may say.
 
Okay my formal 2 cents:

Bottom line is that you should get into some allopathic medical school in the US somewhere with those stats. Your GPA and overall MCAT score looks great, but I can see where the 6b could be a problem. Because of that, you may need to apply to the less competitive schools.

Above all, try the US MD schools first.

The DO vs MD vs carib MD is a tricky thing. If you ever plan to go back home to Korea, then you need to investigate if DOs are recognized there. If you plan to stay in the US, even though I know you don't want a DO, go the DO route before the Carib schools. If you are not a US citizen (I'm just taking into acount the info on your father), go the DO route. As a Carib grad, your age and citizenship status will count against you in the Match.

All of that being said, I am very interested to know why you want such a drastic career change. You obviously have been very dedicated to the field of mathematics for some time. Any degree in math is extremely tough to get, especially to the level that you have. And working with children in need? That is fantastic! :bow:

In the end, if your dream is to be a doctor, well, do anything it takes to get you there. Regardless of what other may say.

I was born in Korea...but moved here very young. My parents and I became citizens in 1984. My brothers of course being born here are automatic citizens. My parents lived here a very long time...my father was a faculty member at a US med school for many years before taken on other interests back in Korea. He still has research facilities at Tulane & LSU med.

So citizenship isn't an issue...my elderly statesman status however may be an issue :D

I've had a couple of careers....I've been a consultant/trader/student/finance/laid off/teacher/now back to student....
I've blown opportunities to go into medicine. When I graduated from high school I was accepted into Wash. U @ St. Louis's 6 yr eng/md program...
At that time I had no interest in becoming a physician...probably because it was shoved down my throat since I was 4.

I am now at the ripe age of 34, ready to be a physician....I know...took a long-ass time...:p

<sigh> Some deep meditation is required I think....
 
Did you apply to LSUHSC-NO?
 
The formula is
US MD > DO >> US FMG >= IMG​

Go DO over Carib. You'll be glad you did later on.
 
I was born in Korea...but moved here very young. My parents and I became citizens in 1984. My brothers of course being born here are automatic citizens. My parents lived here a very long time...my father was a faculty member at a US med school for many years before taken on other interests back in Korea. He still has research facilities at Tulane & LSU med.

So citizenship isn't an issue...my elderly statesman status however may be an issue :D

I've had a couple of careers....I've been a consultant/trader/student/finance/laid off/teacher/now back to student....
I've blown opportunities to go into medicine. When I graduated from high school I was accepted into Wash. U @ St. Louis's 6 yr eng/md program...
At that time I had no interest in becoming a physician...probably because it was shoved down my throat since I was 4.

I am now at the ripe age of 34, ready to be a physician....I know...took a long-ass time...:p

<sigh> Some deep meditation is required I think....

Are you sure you want to do medicine now because you truly love the career, or because your finance gig didn't work out and debt is mounting?
 
Are you sure you want to do medicine now because you truly love the career, or because your finance gig didn't work out and debt is mounting?

Yes I want to go into medicine because I will be making SO much for the next 8 yrs, from med school thru residency. :rolleyes:
 
Don't turn down becoming a DO or going to the Carib because of what your family thinks. Do what you need to do to become a physician. I think you have a decent shot at a US school if you retook the MCAT and just increased the bio section by 3 points or so...if you are a math guy and scored so high on verbal and physical sciences, you should be smart enough to do that. If you really want to be a physician you need to commit to doing that, plus you NEED clinical volunteer work. I know it must be hard working full time as a teacher, but you HAVE to do it. I don't see any US MD schools taking you without clinical experience. If you start right now, you could have several months under your belt by the time you apply.

If I were you, I would either just go to SABA (if the financials work out), or preferably I would apply x one to US schools...apply early, like this June. I still say you cannot do it without clinical experience, though. The adcom doesn't care about your dad's medical accomplishments...they want to know that YOU want to be a physician, and why.
 
Don't turn down becoming a DO or going to the Carib because of what your family thinks. Do what you need to do to become a physician. I think you have a decent shot at a US school if you retook the MCAT and just increased the bio section by 3 points or so...if you are a math guy and scored so high on verbal and physical sciences, you should be smart enough to do that. If you really want to be a physician you need to commit to doing that, plus you NEED clinical volunteer work. I know it must be hard working full time as a teacher, but you HAVE to do it. I don't see any US MD schools taking you without clinical experience. If you start right now, you could have several months under your belt by the time you apply.

If I were you, I would either just go to SABA (if the financials work out), or preferably I would apply x one to US schools...apply early, like this June. I still say you cannot do it without clinical experience, though. The adcom doesn't care about your dad's medical accomplishments...they want to know that YOU want to be a physician, and why.

Ok...so CLINICAL experience is a must.
Anything else I should do for the next year if time permits?
 
well, let's see, you never set foot in a hospital as a volunteer, you don't have any research, and your biological science score is so low that it's lower than the cut off of most schools.

So no, unless you can address those issues, you won't fix your problem.
 
Ok...so CLINICAL experience is a must.
Anything else I should do for the next year if time permits?

Start studying for the MCAT. Just in case. A bit of studying for someone like you, you could totally rock that test!

I know you don't want to wait another year, but it is only a year. In the end it could make a big difference in what school you go to.

I will stand by what I said before. Do what it takes to accomplish your dream.....
 
well, let's see, you never set foot in a hospital as a volunteer, you don't have any research, and your biological science score is so low that it's lower than the cut off of most schools.

So no, unless you can address those issues, you won't fix your problem.

Your comments are unnecesary. :mad:
 
I know the statements are true.

Just too harsh.

@tigerz, dragonfly: thanks for the advice.
So its the hospital setting that I really need?
I always thought volunteering some place was enough...not just at the hospital. I'm a bit unsure how I'd get involved in clinical research at this point. Shadowing a doctor and having patient interaction should be easy to manage.
 
You don't have to have done research.
You do need experience in a hospital and/or clinic, and as much as you can get in the next few months. They want to see that you have some clue about being a doctor...and you can't just say that your dad is one, so you already know what it's like...that won't fly even if there is some truth in it.

Also, since your dad is a doc I feel compelled to add this - please don't go to med school only because of the bad economy, your family's expectations, or because you don't know what else to do with your life. If you do that, you'll just burn out. You need to either love medicine or at least like it a lot, b/c of the work hours and the years of commitment required to get to be an attending doc. Otherwise it becomes torture...
 
@tigerz, dragonfly: thanks for the advice.
So its the hospital setting that I really need?
I always thought volunteering some place was enough...not just at the hospital. I'm a bit unsure how I'd get involved in clinical research at this point. Shadowing a doctor and having patient interaction should be easy to manage.

I think with you cumulative GPA and high MCAT, you have a realistic shot at an American MD school so long as you're patient and take an extra year or two off to improve your application. For starters, your bio score is keeping you out of all the American medical schools. I think the lowest you can go on the bio section is an 8 if you want to make the cut-off at most schools. Personally, I think that if you scored a 10 on that section, you would already have an acceptance or two in hand, even if you don't have all the traditional volunteering/shadowing experience that most premeds seem to have.

The other thing, as the others posters mentioned, is that you don't have any clinical/research experience (90% of accepted medical school applicants have these types of experiences). That's a big red flag. In order to obtain clinical research, you don't have to work at a hospital. You can shadow a few doctors for a few months. You can volunteer at a hospital or a patient healthcare center. You can even work as an EMT or patient transporter - there's nothing wrong with those jobs, we all have to start somewhere.

For the research job, you can either work in a lab or volunteer at one in order to obtain the necessary experience. Don't think of it as a low-paying 9-5 job, when you're in a lab setting, you're really there to gain additional experience on how to use the lab equipment. These are important skills that you need to acquire in case you plan on doing research while in medical school or as a fellow when you're doing your residency.

As you've probably figured it out by now, follow the other posters advise. Spend some time going through the SDN forum. Gain a better understanding of the application process. I think you have the potential of getting into a really good (possibly top 10) US medical school. It's just that you made so many common mistakes in the application process (ex. applying with an unbalanced MCAT score, applying without any clinical experience, applying very late) and all of these things combined ended up sinking your application.
 
You should apply to Tel Aviv University's Sackler School of Medicine in Israel. They are still accepting applications for this year. It's an English program, class size is small (60-70) and the grads there match well in US programs as FMGs. It's MD and it's a heck lot cheaper than Caribbean schools and out-of-state DOs, and you are actually going to a reputable university.

You don't have to be Jewish. I'm East Asian like you and got accepted for 2013 class and I applied about a month ago.

It's tough to be a son of East Asian parents. And it doesn't matter if you are 5, 20, 30 or 50 years old. If I were you though, I would take one of the DO acceptances. It's the same thing, really. Life is too short for egos. At some point you just got to say, "f off" and do your own thing. Bill Gate's dad disapproved him dropping out too.
 
Israeli med school isn't too bad of an idea, especially if the OP doesn't want to wait.

After rereading the post, I think the OP could probably get into a solid US school if the OP does volunteer work and improved the MCAT biology score...with a higher bio score, even a 9 or so, the overall MCAT would be quite strong. The postbac GPA is also quite strong, and I think the OP could use the OP's job teaching at risk kids as a plus for the application. THe OP still needs volunteer work, though, and if he just starts now, it might not be enough for this application cycle...

The OP could go Caribbean, but it might be worth waiting an extra year (even two) to go in the US, even if it doesn't seem so right now. The OP has the academic ability to do med school level work. It is just the commitment and desire to do clinical medicine that he needs to show to the adcom...and fix the MCAT biology score, which he can definitely do if he just studies a little. I don't believe that someone who got that high on physics and verbal can't get a good biology score...just have to memorize some of the stuff, do practice questions, etc.

Personally, with my 20/20 hindsight, I think it might be worth it to just retake MCAT this summer, start hospital volunteering (like NOW...you can just do 4 hrs once a week or something on a weekend) and see if you can get admitted (either this year, or next cycle). Going to school in the US will make your life easier later (like when you try to get a residency).

You could still apply really early this year, like June, even if retaking the MCAT...they'll probably hold your application until they get the new score a few weeks later.
 
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