Am I setting myself up for a major problem?

[Psycho Doctor]

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All summer I was taking something to sleep....long story but despite mostly a good summer due to psychological stuff I really can't sleep. Now once I'm back in school and getting less sleep the sleeping aids make me drowsy in the morning so I need stimulants to get me up in the morning and then i just take massive doses of caffeine or enrgy drinks to keep going and then more sleeping aids to get me to sleep. Am I getting myself into a cycle that will be impossible to break? Don't tell me to give up the sleeping aids; because i can't or i don't want to deal with the crap I'd have to.

 

[Nerdoscience]

Sounds like you already know the answer, but don't like it. Whoever is prescribing you that stuff should do a thorough evaluation of your situation, and come up with a non-pharmacological solution. This may involve improving sleep hygiene, seeing a sleep specialist, or seeing a psychiatrist or therapist.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Sounds like you already know the answer, but don't like it. Whoever is prescribing you that stuff should do a thorough evaluation of your situation, and come up with a non-pharmacological solution. This may involve improving sleep hygiene, seeing a sleep specialist, or seeing a psychiatrist or therapist.

no one is prescribing it to me; i'm taking over the counter stuff; it's nothing too strong; i've taken a lot worse; so maybe it's not so bad after all?😕

 

[Amxcvbcv]

Think of it like alcohol.

If you think you should be cutting back, you probably should. :-/

I agree, see a sleep specialist, or someone that can help you with some cognitive behavior therapy. Unless you've got some kind of underlying pathology, I really don't think there's a better way to deal with insomnia.

But what do I know? 😉

 

[lord_jeebus]

Your problem could be as simple as delayed sleep phase syndrome, which is rather easily treated with a light box.

And no matter what's causing your insomnia, OTC products are probably not your best option.

So try seeing a doctor 🙂

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Think of it like alcohol.

If you think you should be cutting back, you probably should. :-/

I agree, see a sleep specialist, or someone that can help you with some cognitive behavior therapy. Unless you've got some kind of underlying pathology, I really don't think there's a better way to deal with insomnia.

But what do I know? 😉

nah, no underlying pathology, just so deep -seeded psychological issues. (and yes, i've already dealt with it; sorta)

 

[Amxcvbcv]

nah, no underlying pathology, just so deep -seeded psychological issues. (and yes, i've already dealt with it; sorta)

Psychological issues are still pathologies, particularly if you've "dealt with it; sorta".

As the original respondent said, you sound like you already know the answer. What do you want from us? Validation? 😉

I'd also like to point you to your own signature for guidance. You might try 1 Peter 5:7 for starters.

 

[MattD]

Although this site isn't meant for medical advice, some more info about what's going on may garner more useful info. That said, it's well documented that a depressant/stimulant cycle is bad for you, and it would probably be a good idea to see a doc about figuring out the best way to get you the proper amount of sleep.

While medical advice is prohibited, I can share my own story. I have an automomic issue which causes anxiety/panic attacks, and things of that nature. Understandably, this can cause some difficulty sleeping due to anxiety. Beta blockers helped with my physical symptoms, but the anxiety was still there. Benzodiazepenes were prescribed, low dose, and it's worked wonders for me. Obviously this is only a solution for my own problem, but is just an example of how a doc can find a way to get things regulated so your body can do what it's supposed to do without interference. If your already willing to take drugs to deal with the problem, go see a doc and make sure you're taking the best drugs for the problem.

 

[fun8stuff]

All summer I was taking something to sleep....long story but despite mostly a good summer due to psychological stuff I really can't sleep. Now once I'm back in school and getting less sleep the sleeping aids make me drowsy in the morning so I need stimulants to get me up in the morning and then i just take massive doses of caffeine or enrgy drinks to keep going and then more sleeping aids to get me to sleep. Am I getting myself into a cycle that will be impossible to break? Don't tell me to give up the sleeping aids; because i can't or i don't want to deal with the crap I'd have to.

it is not natural and not healthy to put that kind of stuff into your body on a long term basis. you need to start thinking about what would make you quit... heart problems? decreased test performance? do you want any of these things?

don't have caffeine 8 hrs before bed. aerobic exercise at least 1 hr a day. you have to at least agree to cut down on the pills (i.e. start out by not taking them on weekends). see a counselor if you are having emotional issues.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

no one is prescribing it to me; i'm taking over the counter stuff; it's nothing too strong; i've taken a lot worse; so maybe it's not so bad after all?😕

That's your problem. The OTC stuff is notorious for not being very good... i.e. with the morning after / drowsiness / quality of sleep. Get some Ambien or Sonata or Lunesta.

 

[Law2Doc]

All summer I was taking something to sleep....long story but despite mostly a good summer due to psychological stuff I really can't sleep. Now once I'm back in school and getting less sleep the sleeping aids make me drowsy in the morning so I need stimulants to get me up in the morning and then i just take massive doses of caffeine or enrgy drinks to keep going and then more sleeping aids to get me to sleep. Am I getting myself into a cycle that will be impossible to break? Don't tell me to give up the sleeping aids; because i can't or i don't want to deal with the crap I'd have to.

Um yes -- longterm alternation of OTC sleeping aids at night and high doses of caffeine during the day can be damaging.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Psychological issues are still pathologies, particularly if you've "dealt with it; sorta".

As the original respondent said, you sound like you already know the answer. What do you want from us? Validation? 😉

I'd also like to point you to your own signature for guidance. You might try 1 Peter 5:7 for starters.

Yea, ok I probably do want validation 😀 you want to give it to me and make me feel better?

"Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." again I probably need reinforcement; " yes, yes I know; 'm weak, i know.😳

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Although this site isn't meant for medical advice, some more info about what's going on may garner more useful info. That said, it's well documented that a depressant/stimulant cycle is bad for you, and it would probably be a good idea to see a doc about figuring out the best way to get you the proper amount of sleep.

While medical advice is prohibited, I can share my own story. I have an automomic issue which causes anxiety/panic attacks, and things of that nature. Understandably, this can cause some difficulty sleeping due to anxiety. Beta blockers helped with my physical symptoms, but the anxiety was still there. Benzodiazepenes were prescribed, low dose, and it's worked wonders for me. Obviously this is only a solution for my own problem, but is just an example of how a doc can find a way to get things regulated so your body can do what it's supposed to do without interference. If your already willing to take drugs to deal with the problem, go see a doc and make sure you're taking the best drugs for the problem.

thanks, I apppreciate your advice. My situation seems sorta similar since I do deal with panic attacks and post stress anxiety syndome which pops up unexpectedly.
I wish I had a doctor near my med school; my closest MD is in Ithaca, NY. Maybe he can prescribe over the phone.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

That's your problem. The OTC stuff is notorious for not being very good... i.e. with the morning after / drowsiness / quality of sleep. Get some Ambien or Sonata or Lunesta.

that stuff always caused drowsiness for me; maybe i was taking it too late in the evening.

 

[Elysium]

It sounds like you probably have generalized anxiety disorder - which can cause insomnia (frequently anxiety is worse at night) - and that needs to be addressed, either with cognitive behavior therapy, meds, or both. You should make an appt. with your health services department to talk to someone about starting on some meds (possibly an SSRI) for anxiety. Benzos and hypnotics (ambien) are a tricky business as they can quickly become fairly addictive. There's a new sleep aid on the market called Rozerem (do a google search) tha's been approved for long term tx of insomnia. It's not a schedule (controlled) drug and works on the melatonin receptor site. Might be a good one to try if you have insurance that will cover it.
Also, make an appt. with student counseling services to talk to a psychologist. Most schools have these services set up for students for free and talking to someone is crucial to get to the heart of it and developing strategies to better deal with your anxiety on a more permanent basis.
Don't try to deal with all this on your own - use the resources available to you.

 

[MattD]

It sounds like you probably have generalized anxiety disorder - which can cause insomnia (frequently anxiety is worse at night) - and that needs to be addressed, either with cognitive behavior therapy, meds, or both. You should make an appt. with your health services department to talk to someone about starting on some meds (possibly an SSRI) for anxiety. Benzos and hypnotics (ambien) are a tricky business as they can quickly become fairly addictive. There's a new sleep aid on the market called Rozerem (do a google search) tha's been approved for long term tx of insomnia. It's not a schedule (controlled) drug and works on the melatonin receptor site. Might be a good one to try if you have insurance that will cover it.
Also, make an appt. with student counseling services to talk to a psychologist. Most schools have these services set up for students for free and talking to someone is crucial to get to the heart of it and developing strategies to better deal with your anxiety on a more permanent basis.
Don't try to deal with all this on your own - use the resources available to you.

So what's your opinion on benzos vs. SSRI's for long term treatments? From what I understand, SSRI's tend to have more severe side effects, as well as pretty serious withdrawal issues if you don't taper off of them right (as in, don't leave your meds behind on vacation...), whereas benzos are a little more addictive, but if you're going on long term therapy anyway, does that really matter all that much? I know that numerous issues are treated with both, seems to be dependant on physician preference, I'm just wondering your opinion on it.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

So what's your opinion on benzos vs. SSRI's for long term treatments? From what I understand, SSRI's tend to have more severe side effects, as well as pretty serious withdrawal issues if you don't taper off of them right (as in, don't leave your meds behind on vacation...), whereas benzos are a little more addictive, but if you're going on long term therapy anyway, does that really matter all that much? I know that numerous issues are treated with both, seems to be dependant on physician preference, I'm just wondering your opinion on it.

Is it even cool anymore to give a benzodiazepine for long term use? (except for clonazepam for anxiety, dystonia/tremors/etc.)

 

[MattD]

Is it even cool anymore to give a benzodiazepine for long term use? (except for clonazepam for anxiety, dystonia/tremors/etc.)

yeah mine's clonazepam, I don't know about any others. I may ask a pharm buddy of mine about that tomorrow.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

yeah mine's clonazepam, I don't know about any others. I may ask a pharm buddy of mine about that tomorrow.

so you agree there are safe meds you can take.👍 thanks

 

[MattD]

so you agree there are safe meds you can take.👍 thanks

Well, yeah, but I want to reiterate the point I was actually trying to make, which was to talk to a doc and find out what the RIGHT safe meds are for your situation. I also would like to make it clear that I was NOT recommending you go out and score some benzos on the black market 🙂

 

[Rugby MD]

the homeless guy who lives in the alley next to my building does a combination of crack in the am, for that ready to face the day feeling, then beer or hard liquor from about noon till he passes out.
if the OTCs stop working for you, maybe his method would be better.👎 👎 👎

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Well, yeah, but I want to reiterate the point I was actually trying to make, which was to talk to a doc and find out what the RIGHT safe meds are for your situation. I also would like to make it clear that I was NOT recommending you go out and score some benzos on the black market 🙂

Oh, I was hoping I could take advice from this forum of such talented and informative almost-doctors rather than seeing another real doctor. 😉

 

[Psycho Doctor]

the homeless guy who lives in the alley next to my building does a combination of crack in the am, for that ready to face the day feeling, then beer or hard liquor from about noon till he passes out.
if the OTCs stop working for you, maybe his method would be better.👎 👎 👎

could you find out his exact formula for me?😛

 

[beary]

So what's your opinion on benzos vs. SSRI's for long term treatments? From what I understand, SSRI's tend to have more severe side effects, as well as pretty serious withdrawal issues if you don't taper off of them right (as in, don't leave your meds behind on vacation...), whereas benzos are a little more addictive, but if you're going on long term therapy anyway, does that really matter all that much? I know that numerous issues are treated with both, seems to be dependant on physician preference, I'm just wondering your opinion on it.

My impression of this is that SSRIs are for long-term, everyday use. Benzos should preferably not be used everyday for the long term. Benzos are very addictive and you get tolerant to them, meaning that you need more and more for the same anxiety relief. Benzo and alcohol withdrawal are the 2 withdrawals that can be fatal. If you forget your SSRIs on vacation, you might feel sick for a few days, but are not gonna die from it.

So I think generally folks like to use SSRIs every day for the long term and benzos as needed for exacerbations.

 

[beary]

All summer I was taking something to sleep....long story but despite mostly a good summer due to psychological stuff I really can't sleep. Now once I'm back in school and getting less sleep the sleeping aids make me drowsy in the morning so I need stimulants to get me up in the morning and then i just take massive doses of caffeine or enrgy drinks to keep going and then more sleeping aids to get me to sleep. Am I getting myself into a cycle that will be impossible to break? Don't tell me to give up the sleeping aids; because i can't or i don't want to deal with the crap I'd have to.

Hi psycho doc, I am in a similar situation as you. I agree with what folks said above that OTC stuff isn't the best. Benadryl has a really long half life and will cause morning drowsiness. Ambien, Lunesta, Sonata, etc. are targeted to the sleep center (instead of just being anti-histamines which cause drowsiness as a side effect) and have a much shorter half life which will cause less daytime grogginess. Yeah, you would have to see an MD to get a script, but I think ambien is pretty much handed out like candy, at least for the short term. Perhaps if you took something with a shorter half life (like not Ambien CR, but the original Ambien) you would be less groggy and then needing less stimulants in the morning which would help get you out of this cycle.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Oh, I was hoping I could take advice from this forum of such talented and informative almost-doctors rather than seeing another real doctor. 😉

Psycho Doctor,

Have you ever tried EEG Biofeedback? It really helps people with sleep disorders. You feel relaxed and able to sleep better.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Psycho Doctor,

Have you ever tried EEG Biofeedback? It really helps people with sleep disorders. You feel relaxed and able to sleep better.

uh no, please tell me more 😀

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Hi psycho doc, I am in a similar situation as you. I agree with what folks said above that OTC stuff isn't the best. Benadryl has a really long half life and will cause morning drowsiness. Ambien, Lunesta, Sonata, etc. are targeted to the sleep center (instead of just being anti-histamines which cause drowsiness as a side effect) and have a much shorter half life which will cause less daytime grogginess. Yeah, you would have to see an MD to get a script, but I think ambien is pretty much handed out like candy, at least for the short term. Perhaps if you took something with a shorter half life (like not Ambien CR, but the original Ambien) you would be less groggy and then needing less stimulants in the morning which would help get you out of this cycle.

i've neve rhad problems with benadryl if i only take one tablet...maybe i should try more since I'm too addicted and one probably does nothing. some of the others cause morning drowsiness for me. the othe rnight I took tylenol PM and my borther came into my room and i couldn't even talk to him; i was so out of it...i think it was early and it had just taken effect. my problem since getting back to med school is tha tthere aren;t enough hours to sleep...unlike during the summer "vacation".

 

[Elysium]

i've neve rhad problems with benadryl if i only take one tablet...maybe i should try more since I'm too addicted and one probably does nothing. some of the others cause morning drowsiness for me. the othe rnight I took tylenol PM and my borther came into my room and i couldn't even talk to him; i was so out of it...i think it was early and it had just taken effect. my problem since getting back to med school is tha tthere aren;t enough hours to sleep...unlike during the summer "vacation".

Dude, just go to health services. Go talk to them about your anxiety disorder and stop taking that OTC crap. It's terrible and it's just going to make you feel worse. Your problem doesn't sound like insomnia so much as anxiety. Get it dealt with before it further spirals out of control. Reread what you wrote in that post above - what would you tell someone who had written that? Whouldn't you see that as someone who needed to talk to someone?

Make an appt. on Monday. I mean it. Don't make me turn into a bitch, now.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Dude, just go to health services. Go talk to them about your anxiety disorder and stop taking that OTC crap. It's terrible and it's just going to make you feel worse. Your problem doesn't sound like insomnia so much as anxiety. Get it dealt with before it further spirals out of control. Reread what you wrote in that post above - what would you tell someone who had written that? Whouldn't you see that as someone who needed to talk to someone?

Make an appt. on Monday. I mean it. Don't make me turn into a bitch, now.

👍

 

[21JumpStreet]

uh no, please tell me more 😀

Psych Doctor,

Check out this link. This is a good explanation of it. http://www.eegspectrum.com/IntroToNeuro/

If you happen to have an anxiety disorder, this tx also helps with that problem.

 

[MollyMalone]

i've neve rhad problems with benadryl if i only take one tablet...maybe i should try more since I'm too addicted and one probably does nothing. some of the others cause morning drowsiness for me. the othe rnight I took tylenol PM and my borther came into my room and i couldn't even talk to him; i was so out of it...i think it was early and it had just taken effect. my problem since getting back to med school is tha tthere aren;t enough hours to sleep...unlike during the summer "vacation".

Psycho, the active ingredient in Tylenol PM is diphenhydramine, which *is* Benadryl.

Not to be mean, but you deserve better help than you're giving yourself. 🙂 I second Elysium -- go to student health and let someone take care of you!

 

[SurgeryChef]

Dude, just go to health services. Go talk to them about your anxiety disorder and stop taking that OTC crap. It's terrible and it's just going to make you feel worse. Your problem doesn't sound like insomnia so much as anxiety. Get it dealt with before it further spirals out of control. Reread what you wrote in that post above - what would you tell someone who had written that? Whouldn't you see that as someone who needed to talk to someone?

Make an appt. on Monday. I mean it. Don't make me turn into a bitch, now.

You need detox. It's the only way to un-screw yourself up.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Dude, just go to health services. Go talk to them about your anxiety disorder and stop taking that OTC crap. It's terrible and it's just going to make you feel worse. Your problem doesn't sound like insomnia so much as anxiety. Get it dealt with before it further spirals out of control. Reread what you wrote in that post above - what would you tell someone who had written that? Whouldn't you see that as someone who needed to talk to someone?

Make an appt. on Monday. I mean it. Don't make me turn into a bitch, now.

yea yea i know you and everyone else is right; honestly i've been to enough doctors...psychiatrists, psychologists, grief counselors, therapists, you name it; i've been there. i really can't deal with going thru my story to another one; that's why i'm trying to deal with this on my own. that's why i came to all you fine people for help.😳 😍

 

[21JumpStreet]

Find a pcp in your area. Let you new doc know what you have taken for your insomia. If the new doc doesn't seem helpful, you can ask to be referred to a neurologist that specializes in sleep disorders. There are quite a few neurologists that do.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Psych Doctor,

Check out this link. This is a good explanation of it. http://www.eegspectrum.com/IntroToNeuro/

If you happen to have an anxiety disorder, this tx also helps with that problem.

thanks. have you ever tried this or know anyone who has?

 

[21JumpStreet]

thanks. have you ever tried this or know anyone who has?

Your welcome. I have tried this with a neuropsychologist. I was stressed out and it helped me to relax. I also slept much better and felt refreshed when I woke. I was also less tense and my concentration improved. You might want to call around and speak to some practioners that do this.

P.S. If you decide not to, you may want to try a neurologist that specializes in sleep disorders.

Definetely consult with a pcp right away. As you already know, it is so dangerous to be messing with med combos.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!

 

[Northerner]

To be honest, all this hopeful advice is fine and dandy, but I think it's pretty clear that God has abandoned you.

If I were you, I'd be focusing less on what to call your craziness and more on repenting for touching yourself at night.

 

[supernova33418]

try 10 mg propanolol it helps with the anxiety

 

[supernova33418]

at least in my case it did
but def consult a doctor

 

[Psycho Doctor]

at least in my case it did
but def consult a doctor

ugh i feel stupid but i'm unfamiliar with that medication; tell me more.