Am I the most bizarre?

[behealthy]

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I'm not even sure how to begin, so I'll just describe myself:

I'm in my 5th year of college ( at UCI), switched from aerospace engineering-->public health science. Overall gpa is 2.9 ( was 2.5 when I switched, at the beginning of my 4th year), nearly all composed of science classes. I'm a passionate learner, but not a strong student, although every quarter since my switch, my gpa has climbed. I've got a lot of extra crics, 100's of hours of research (in engineering, public health, and bio, none being anywhere close to run of the mill research either), worked appx 400 hours in a hospital, ran a couple clubs on campus, and ran my own business. Certainly not super ridiculous, but my resume is strong. I applied to MPH programs this year, but I'm not sure if I'll gain entry, or if it's the proper course for me. I want to be a physician, and I'm willing to do anything necessary, but need some guidance. I know that line "I'll do anything.." is quite commonly said, but I'm a strong person, who is quite stubborn, especially about his passions.

I've been working to improve my gpa, but given my serious amount of units, it is very, very difficult, and slow, but it is happening ( appx 3.4 last 90 units). A postbac sounds reasonable to make sure the pre-reqs are all A's, but I have nearly all my pre-reqs done, so I'm not sure if that would make a difference. A SMP is a possibility, but seems to be only a last ditch effort. I'd get an MPH if I got in, as I'm passionate about public health, but I don't believe that will cover my undergrad grades ( which haunt me). I'm very interested in kinesiology, so an MS in kin would also be quite enjoyable.

Any advice? At this stage, I'll be frank, the stress of undergrad life, changing majors, and being haunted by my poor gpa ( despite many quarters of success) has pushed my stress level reasonably high. I'm inclined to finish this spring, and spend some time doing research and volunteering for the next 6 months, apply to spring programs ( and some fall, for '10) of MPH and MS programs, and then, depending on life circumstances, take bacc classes after that. I'm not sure even how post-bacc classes cover original classes ( especially if taken at different universities).

Thanks for all your help.

 

[atomi]

-

 

[murfettie]

nop

I'm not even sure how to begin, so I'll just describe myself:

I'm in my 5th year of college ( at UCI), switched from aerospace engineering-->public health science. Overall gpa is 2.9 ( was 2.5 when I switched, at the beginning of my 4th year), nearly all composed of science classes. I'm a passionate learner, but not a strong student, although every quarter since my switch, my gpa has climbed. I've got a lot of extra crics, 100's of hours of research (in engineering, public health, and bio, none being anywhere close to run of the mill research either), worked appx 400 hours in a hospital, ran a couple clubs on campus, and ran my own business. Certainly not super ridiculous, but my resume is strong. I applied to MPH programs this year, but I'm not sure if I'll gain entry, or if it's the proper course for me. I want to be a physician, and I'm willing to do anything necessary, but need some guidance. I know that line "I'll do anything.." is quite commonly said, but I'm a strong person, who is quite stubborn, especially about his passions.

I've been working to improve my gpa, but given my serious amount of units, it is very, very difficult, and slow, but it is happening ( appx 3.4 last 90 units). A postbac sounds reasonable to make sure the pre-reqs are all A's, but I have nearly all my pre-reqs done, so I'm not sure if that would make a difference. A SMP is a possibility, but seems to be only a last ditch effort. I'd get an MPH if I got in, as I'm passionate about public health, but I don't believe that will cover my undergrad grades ( which haunt me). I'm very interested in kinesiology, so an MS in kin would also be quite enjoyable.

Any advice? At this stage, I'll be frank, the stress of undergrad life, changing majors, and being haunted by my poor gpa ( despite many quarters of success) has pushed my stress level reasonably high. I'm inclined to finish this spring, and spend some time doing research and volunteering for the next 6 months, apply to spring programs ( and some fall, for '10) of MPH and MS programs, and then, depending on life circumstances, take bacc classes after that. I'm not sure even how post-bacc classes cover original classes ( especially if taken at different universities).

Thanks for all your help.

 

[behealthy]

I'm not sure how it's possible to get to a 3.3 level, take another 2 years of college classes? Get a second bachelors? I don't get how post-baccs work into my actual bacc grades, are they just included as if I did them during my bachelors?

 

[ILikeFood]

I'm not sure how it's possible to get to a 3.3 level, take another 2 years of college classes? Get a second bachelors? I don't get how post-baccs work into my actual bacc grades, are they just included as if I did them during my bachelors?

It's possible with DO schools. Retake classes with your lowest grades. DO's do grade replacement, so if you do well your cumulative should climb rapidly.

And yes, postbacc will be lumped into your undergrad gpa.

 

[Deepa100]

No, ILF is 😀

 

[Code Brown]

I'm not sure how it's possible to get to a 3.3 level, take another 2 years of college classes? Get a second bachelors? I don't get how post-baccs work into my actual bacc grades, are they just included as if I did them during my bachelors?

In all honesty, you will not be getting into a US MD program with those numbers, unless you somehow miraculously score >38 on the MCAT and you have a really good story as to why your grades were that low. Looking at our program (MCW), I don't think we interviewed more than a handful of people with GPA's of less than 3.6. I myself interviewed about a dozen people, and I think the lowest was a 3.63.

That said, as long as you can get your GPA above a 3.0, you should be able to qualify for one of the caribbean programs. I say go until you climb above the 3.0 mark and spend the rest of the time working on the MCAT. I know people who took the Ross route and were around the 3.05-3.10 mark.

Not sure what the DO program cutoffs are like this year.

 

[behealthy]

Just as a hypothetical, would a US MD school be possible with a 3.1 undergrad, an MS, and an MPH? I understand that graduate degrees are separate from undergrad, but they must have some value. A good MCAT is a must, as expected.

 

[DrMidlife]

Just as a hypothetical, would a US MD school be possible with a 3.1 undergrad, an MS, and an MPH? I understand that graduate degrees are separate from undergrad, but they must have some value. A good MCAT is a must, as expected.

Rhett

The facts:
- you're competing against vast hordes of fresh undergrads who have never made any mistakes, have high GPAs, high MCATs, and tons of experience.
- 60% of med school applicants (MD and DO) are rejected every year. Don't make the mistake of thinking that those 60% are losers.
- A graduate GPA (except for SMP), is oranges. An undergrad GPA is apples. Admissions committees won't compare your shiny oranges to all the shiny apples. They want to see your apples.

Things I would do to get into a US MD school prior to considering a traditional masters or MPH:
- take more undergrad coursework until GPA is over 3.4 (fyi, in CA/NY/etc, 3.4 isn't high enough for a public school)
- after fixing undergrad GPA, do very well in an SMP (see the postbac forum for info)
- do the Peace Corps
- do publishable lab work
- otherwise make yourself stand out from the crowd and make adcoms want to fight for you

My $.02. Best of luck to you.

 

[gonj]

Am I missing something? The big obstacle here is the undergrad GPA. Wouldn't straight As in a post-bacc or a 2nd bachelor's do the trick?

 

[DrMidlife]

Am I missing something? The big obstacle here is the undergrad GPA. Wouldn't straight As in a post-bacc or a 2nd bachelor's do the trick?

A 2.9 after 5 years of undergrad means that the OP needs a minimum of 3 more years, at a 4.0, to get a cumulative undergrad GPA of 3.3. Which will help, but isn't enough to "do the trick" of securing admission at a US MD school, in reality. Nor do people suddenly pull out a 4.0.

Which is why I suggest a list of things to do that includes additional years of undergrad work.

 

[behealthy]

I don't believe that any percentage of people who are applying to med school don't deserve it, or do not have the qualifications. I do believe that I have the right qualities to make an excellent physician, I just need more opportunities to show it! It seems not worth taking too much more coursework ( in my current program) given the difficulty in raising my gpa. A post-bacc ( to act a slight life-change) or even a second bachelors both seem reasonable. It doesn't seem worth it to spend another 3 years as an undergrad, with 1 major.

I've been looking into the peace corp, and americorp, and those are both interesting, and a possibility, but I'd like to fix ( or partially fix) my gpa before doing those. I don't want to spend 2 years in a program, and realize I've both lost knowledge and study skills I had, and still have to remedy my gpa.

My best bet for the short term appears to immediately redo the classes I did extremely poorly in, however quite a few of those are very difficult math classes ( differential equations) that I'm not sure I'm capable of performing well in.

 

[glamqueen]

I spent 2.5 years earning a second Bachelor's. Granted, I started with a 3.6 and am ending with a 3.6. I neither raised nor lowered my overall average, because some of the pre-reqs and my coursework for my second science bachelor's were very difficult. I am accepted to an MD school for the fall. I would definitely not just assume you can earn all A's. That seems to be quite common around here. I worked my tail off, and I still got a few B's. It is what it is, but I would plan on putting the years and the work into it. I know I did, and I don't regret a thing.

Good luck.

 

[DrMidlife]

My best bet for the short term appears to immediately redo the classes I did extremely poorly in, however quite a few of those are very difficult math classes ( differential equations) that I'm not sure I'm capable of performing well in.

Retaking coursework is extremely beneficial if you're applying to DO schools, because DO schools only count the most recent grade on a retake.

For MD schools, which count all grades, you can do just as well by taking other classes. An A in immunology (or whatnot) against a D in diffy q's is going to do more for you on a med school app than a D followed by an A (more likely a B) in diffy q's. The first says that you can handle upper div science (whoo hoo!) and math's not your strong suit (so what). The second says that you need two chances when the subject is hard (draws attention to your shortcomings for no good reason).

If you didn't like differential annihilation the first time, I can guarantee you won't like it the second. Immuno, on the other hand, at least is extremely interesting while it whups your fanny.

Best of luck to you.

 

[behealthy]

I can actually retake classes at my school ( up to 4) and have the prior attempt not count on my gpa, hence my desire to retake a few classes. Getting rid of a few d's, and getting b's ( or a's) would help quite a lot.

I guess my true fear is that I'll never be able to get to the point that I can be judged on character, and achievements, and that my undergrad gpa will always be the thorn in my side. It seems like the reality is that it will be, but I can hope to hell, cross my fingers, and believe that I can make it sting only slightly, and mask the poor undergrad performance with amazing other experiences.

 

[glamqueen]

Sorry to be a downer, but it doesn't matter what your school does - what matters is what AMCAS does. AMCAS will count every single grade even if you take the class four times in a row, and your school only counted the last grade. Choose your retakes wisely.

 

[DrMidlife]

I can actually retake classes at my school ( up to 4) and have the prior attempt not count on my gpa, hence my desire to retake a few classes. Getting rid of a few d's, and getting b's ( or a's) would help quite a lot.

Sorry, but unless the old coursework is erased from your transcript, it's included in the med school application service calculation of your GPA. I'd be very surprised if an accredited US university can erase coursework - can you get access to a recently graduated person's transcript that has a retake? Your school isn't involved in the med school app process beyond submitting a transcript, and your school's GPA calc isn't used.

Also, at the risk of being a huge big fat discouraging pain in your fanny, you need to stop thinking it's okay to get B's. You might as well not take that class, because a B does nothing to fix your GPA (not even in the DO retake story).

BOLTY.

 

[behealthy]

That last piece of transcript knowledge is very new to me. I just looked at my own transcript ( a older, sealed copy I had), and saw that although they listed the 1st time I took a course, it wasn't used in calculating gpa (the redo was). Would a med school still use both to calculate gpa?

 

[DrMidlife]

Would a med school still use both to calculate gpa?

Med schools use application services, such as AMCAS, TMDSAS and AACOMAS, to compile and categorize your coursework, which they present to the med schools to which you apply. One of the reasons that applying takes so long is that you (the candidate) are required to list all of your courses, one by one, and then the app service verifies your claims against transcripts submitted directly from your school.

AMCAS and TMDSAS absolutely will use both the original and retaken grades in GPA calcs. AACOMAS will show both grades, but will only use the latest in GPA calcs.

 

[behealthy]

Good to know. I think I definitely need a month to relax. 5 years of undergrad ( did 4 summers too in a row of class), all while working has drained me.