Am I underpaid ?

[DayDoc]

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I make 450k base seeing around 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and do injections 1-2 days a week. I do about 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. Most injections are TFESI, FACETS, RFA Bonus is 40% above my salary.

I'm in the Midwest in PP. bonus is based on revenue generated. Expected to generate 1.2-1.3mm revenue this year.

 

[SSdoc33]

I make 450k base seeing around 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and do injections 1-2 days a week. I do about 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. Most injections are TFESI, FACETS, RFA Bonus is 40% above my salary.

on the coasts, you are not underpaid. in BFE, you are.

everyone else who responds to this thread will say you are underpaid

basically, if you feel you are being underpaid, then you probably are. YMMV

 

[GoBeers]

Location?
Private clinic vs hopd?
Insurance contracts?

We are probably all under paid if not owner

 

[so55b]

I make 450k base seeing around 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and do injections 1-2 days a week. I do about 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. Most injections are TFESI, FACETS, RFA Bonus is 40% above my salary.

What's your total income after all? 450k is only your base. It sounds like more than 12000 RVU/year and it would be close to 1M in a hospital setting where I work.

 

[BobBarker]

You are being very well fed procedures.

 

[Agast]

It’s hard to assess without telling us how much you actually made in bonus. If you just started and there’s no bonus that’s kicked in you are still running at a loss/even from the beginning of the year. IE you can’t look at the work you did last week and assume it makes up for your first month.

 

[DOctorJay]

so total is about 630K and generating 1.2-1.3M so you're getting close to 50% of your revenue. is this correct?

 

[Centurion38]

This sounds like an Ortho practice that sends patients on a conveyor belt. Is that accurate?

If so, you might consider yourself underpaid but understand that you are infinitely replaceable and so they may not share your concern.

 

[PAINISGOOD]

underpaid by 35%

 

[MitchLevi]

No one can say whether or not you're underpaid bc we don't know your overhead or bonuses.

 

[TeslaCoil]

In the words of Einstein... its all relative. If you're an employee though, chances are you're probably slightly underpaid.

 

[DayDoc]

underpaid by 35%my

Location?
Private clinic vs hopd?
Insurance contracts?

We are probably all under paid if not owner

Midwest and PP. Mostly medicare/caid 75% and 25 commercial

 

[DayDoc]

so total is about 630K and generating 1.2-1.3M so you're getting close to 50% of your revenue. is this correct?

My calculation is about 800k total compensation

 

[DayDoc]

underpaid by 35%how much do you think I would be making in PP vs hospital ?

 

[TeslaCoil]

Doing the same work as a partner you would probably be making $150-200k ish more...

 

[GoBeers]

My calculation is about 800k total compensation

if you're making 800k total compensation then i think you're doing just fine man. especially if they are feeding you procedures like that.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Ok please expand on how your salary is 450k but your total compensation is 800k... how are you getting the other 350k?

 

[MitchLevi]

You're not underpaid.

 

[Iamnew2]

I make 450k base seeing around 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and do injections 1-2 days a week. I do about 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. Most injections are TFESI, FACETS, RFA Bonus is 40% above my salary.

I'm in the Midwest in PP. bonus is based on revenue generated. Expected to generate 1.2-1.3mm revenue this year.

depends where you are and how much your bonus is. In Chicago, you are likely getting a great deal. In Iowa - prob underpaid. So it's hard to comment without specifics. I have recently been receiving a lot of jobs that pay in the 300k range with no bonus/no partner options - straight employee. So don't think that you are underpaid. It'salso hard to understand what you mean by total comp is 800k - do you mean with insurance, 401k, etc? Or do you mean salary and bonus? it's all relative

 

[RoloTomassi]

I make 450k base seeing around 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and do injections 1-2 days a week. I do about 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. Most injections are TFESI, FACETS, RFA Bonus is 40% above my salary.

I'm in the Midwest in PP. bonus is based on revenue generated. Expected to generate 1.2-1.3mm revenue this year.

Are you doing procedures in ASC and the 1.2-1.3M is in pro fees?

 

[swamprat]

I posted something similar to this a few months back - I think it comes down to this. Do you have patience and stamina to take a huge paycut for possibly a couple years to hustle and work your way up to getting to the volume you are at now? And if so - it won't be for much more money than you currently are making as you will solely be responsible for overhead and collections. However when you start to add on and take the share of productivity from docs you hire that is where you become a full baller and buy a yacht. I am still on the fence - make prob as much as you but more toward my bonus than base salary. Coastal area.

 

[Iamnew2]

I posted something similar to this a few months back - I think it comes down to this. Do you have patience and stamina to take a huge paycut for possibly a couple years to hustle and work your way up to getting to the volume you are at now? And if so - it won't be for much more money than you currently are making as you will solely be responsible for overhead and collections. However when you start to add on and take the share of productivity from docs you hire that is where you become a full baller and buy a yacht. I am still on the fence - make prob as much as you but more toward my bonus than base salary. Coastal area.

How many pain docs own yachts? Prob not that many

 

[swamprat]

How many pain docs own yachts? Prob not that many

Yes I knwo im being facetious but point is economy of scale - 600+ is great but if your making that, they are making more just off you - get 3-4 docs under you and you are looking at multimilion dollar collections a year of which if you are the practice owner solely is yours.

 

[GoBeers]

I posted something similar to this a few months back - I think it comes down to this. Do you have patience and stamina to take a huge paycut for possibly a couple years to hustle and work your way up to getting to the volume you are at now? And if so - it won't be for much more money than you currently are making as you will solely be responsible for overhead and collections. However when you start to add on and take the share of productivity from docs you hire that is where you become a full baller and buy a yacht. I am still on the fence - make prob as much as you but more toward my bonus than base salary. Coastal area.

~$450k in coastal area. that's as good as it gets for non-owner, no?

 

[swamprat]

~$450k in coastal area. that's as good as it gets for non-owner, no?

I'm above 600K with bonus - this does not include the moonlighting I do - Im in my early/mid thirties I'm trying to hustle right now 😆

 

[Iamnew2]

I'm above 600K with bonus - this does not include the moonlighting I do - Im in my early/mid thirties I'm trying to hustle right now 😆

out of curiosity how do you do moonlighting if you work full time - like on weekends or what?

 

[DayDoc]

Ok please expand on how your salary is 450k but your total compensation is 800k... how are you getting the other 350k?

Production bonus

 

[DayDoc]

Are you doing procedures in ASC and the 1.2-1.3M is in pro fees?

Yes, pro fees

 

[DayDoc]

depends where you are and how much your bonus is. In Chicago, you are likely getting a great deal. In Iowa - prob underpaid. So it's hard to comment without specifics. I have recently been receiving a lot of jobs that pay in the 300k range with no bonus/no partner options - straight employee. So don't think that you are underpaid. It'salso hard to understand what you mean by total comp is 800k - do you mean with insurance, 401k, etc? Or do you mean salary and bonus? it's all relative

Salary and bonus only.

 

[PainDoc2025]

I'm above 600K with bonus - this does not include the moonlighting I do - Im in my early/mid thirties I'm trying to hustle right now 😆

Very curious -- can you explain more about moonlighting as a Pain attending? What are some moonlighting options for pain docs - locums? SNF jobs? urgent care shifts? or what exactly does it consist of?

 

[RoloTomassi]

Yes, pro fees

Thanks, sounds on par with numbers I quoted on another thread:

3 clinic days, 30 pt/day, 90/wk:
90 x 150/(99204/99214) = $13,500/wk

2 procedure days, 25 procedures/day, 50/wk:
50 x 150/procedure (averaging a 1 level with 2 level/bilateral) = $7,500/wk

$21,000/wk x 48 wks = 1M

This is with Medicare. Throw in better payers, RFA/SCS/etc, and you can cut the above volume down and still make 1M pro fees.

Keeping 800k/1.2M is not bad for employed, but again shows why equity is important. As an owner, you'd probably keep more than 800k of your pro fees after overhead, plus ASC facility fees (yours and all employee generated), plus a little off the top of employee pro fees, DME, imaging.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Salary and bonus only.

Then no. You are not underpaid. And this makes your OP a little pathetic. 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

[Ligament]

You make a lot.

 

[Iamnew2]

Yes I knwo im being facetious but point is economy of scale - 600+ is great but if your making that, they are making more just off you - get 3-4 docs under you and you are looking at multimilion dollar collections a year of which if you are the practice owner solely is yours.

Production bonus

then if that is the case, how do you figure you are underpaid? if you are making in the 800k range, you are probably making more than the avg pain physician. If anything you are above average, so not sure why you would make the post that you made. Seems a little trollish in my opinion

 

[jsaul]

800k? You think you are underpaid? You really think that? Or , as they used to say back in the day, yoy just chillin

 

[Iamnew2]

800k? You think you are underpaid? You really think that? Or , as they used to say back in the day, just chillin

seems OP is trolling.

Let me see - hey guys, I only make $10 million per month- am I underpaid? What do you think!

 

[DayDoc]

Then no. You are not underpaid. And this makes your OP a little pathetic.

800k? You think you are underpaid? You really think that? Or , as they used to say back in the day, just chillin

Honestly just want to know if I'm underpaid to decide if I should stay or move on solo.

 

[DayDoc]

then if that is the case, how do you figure you are underpaid? if you are making in the 800k range, you are probably making more than the avg pain physician. If anything you are above average, so not sure why you would make the post that you made. Seems a little trollish in my opinion.

My renewal is coming up so I just want to know if I should stay, negotiate for more if I'm underpaid for the amount of work I'm doing, or I should go solo and see if I can generate more doing what I'm already doing. Definitely a genuine question.

 

[RoloTomassi]

Y'all are harsh. Legit question to me. 800k seems good without context, but dude is working hard and generating a ton of revenue, especially 10 SCS/mo. 250+ procedures/mo is working hard.

The question is, how much are you fed vs how much can you bring in yourself?

 

[DayDoc]

Thanks, sounds on par with numbers I quoted on another thread:

Keeping 800k/1.2M is not bad for employed, but again shows why equity is important. As an owner, you'd probably keep more than 800k of your pro fees after overhead, plus ASC facility fees (yours and all employee generated), plus a little off the top of employee pro fees, DME, imaging.

Thanks.

 

[DayDoc]

Y'all are harsh. Legit question to me. 800k seems good without context, but dude is working hard and generating a ton of revenue, especially 10 SCS/mo. 250+ procedures/mo is working hard.

The question is, how much are you fed vs how much can you bring in yourself?

This is mostly fed to me. I agree it would be hard to go solo and be able to generate this volume.

 

[Ligament]

Guys; being the practice owner does not always mean more money, and in fact it is much more work in general. If you are making this type of money employed, you are lucky.

 

[Iamnew2]

This is mostly fed to me. I agree it would be hard to go solo and be able to generate this volume.

that is more than most pain docs make. and if you went solo the amount of overhead is significant not to mention that it would be hard to get that much volume. stick with the deal you have.

 

[DayDoc]

that is more than most pain docs make. and if you went solo the amount of overhead is significant not to mention that it would be hard to get that much volume. stick with the deal you have.

Thanks.

 

[GoBeers]

I see 27pts on average (about 20 -22 fu, 5-7 np) a day, 3.5-4 days a week and roughly 35-40 procedures (bread and butter, scs and kypho once in a blue moon) a week. I'm employed and my base is 350k or 40% total collections on the west coast single specialty private practice in office only.

I have a chill life but I'm probably underpaid. Also planning to negotiate up the next contract.

If I were you I'd never quit your job

 

[clubdeac]

800k is a nice salary however you're working your tail off if your seeing 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and also doing 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. With that volume I would say you are underpaid. You should be making over 1 million

 

[RoloTomassi]

How much bargaining power do you have, or can they just replace you with another needle jockey willing to take that pay? If you can, ask to buy ASC shares, if you think it's a well run one.

 

[DayDoc]

800k is a nice salary however you're working your tail off if your seeing 30 patients/day 3-4 days a week and also doing 60-70 injections a week and 2-3 stim trials a week. With that volume I would say you are underpaid. You should be making over 1 million

I know I make a good salary. I just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table. Yes.. I'm working my ass off . I'll see if I can negotiate for 1mm come renewal. Are you talking about the Midwest or coastals where people are making this much with my volume ? Thanks.

 

[clubdeac]

I know I make a good salary. I just want to make sure I'm not leaving any money on the table. Yes.. I'm working my ass off . I'll see if I can negotiate for 1mm come renewal. Are you talking about the Midwest or coastals where people are making this much with my volume ? Thanks.

I don't really know. I've heard pay sucks in cali and the northeast but honestly most things suck in those areas except for the weather in Cali. If you're in Cali making that much maybe that's the best you can hope for. Getting screwed may be worth the weather. If you're in the NE, good luck and god speed. Everyone up there's leaving and moving to my neck of the woods

 

[DayDoc]

How much bargaining power do you have, or can they just replace you with another needle jockey willing to take that pay? If you can, ask to buy ASC shares, if you think it's a well run one.

I have thought about it but have not brought it up because I don't want any attachment to allow for a quick departure If I don't get along with the owner.