ama/amsa

[rhiannon777]

I'm an MS1. The student organizations started recruiting today. Most of them were pretty straightforward specialty interested groups, but I'm a little confused when it comes to the AMA and the AMSA. Would you guys recommend joining either of them (or both)? I couldn't really tell from talking with the representatives today whether there are benefits to membership other than some free literature and resume building. Also, what's the difference between the two? Obviously, I know that one is for students only while the other can be career-long, but on the level of activities and benefits, how are they different? Thanks!

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[USCguy]

For us, AMA membership, and membership in our state medical assoc. was paid for by the state association. When you signed up with AMA, you received a free dissection kit. I think you also get JAMA, but we already get that through the library subscription service.

AMSA cost money to join (I forgot how much). I think they have more events on campus (like free lunch meetings).

 

[Ashers]

Do a forum search. This has been discussed multiple times.

Short of it. I joined both. Both gave me free books for joining (Netters and Stedmans). I was temporarily active in AMSA since my friend was the president M2 year. I really just wanted the free books.

 

[ZagDoc]

The New Physician subscription is a nice little plus also.

Now's the time to do it if you are... its easier to justify the $75 for AMSA in the beginning of the year when you're already emptying your pockets for everything else.

 

[Flaxmoore]

The New Physician subscription is a nice little plus also.

Now's the time to do it if you are... its easier to justify the $75 for AMSA in the beginning of the year when you're already emptying your pockets for everything else.

Is it worth it to join AMSA, though? They charge $75 to join, and give a Netter. I can get Netter for $70, so that's irrelevant. Does it mean anything later on, such as being a good thing to have come clinicals or match?

 

[Keg]

Is it worth it to join AMSA, though? They charge $75 to join, and give a Netter. I can get Netter for $70, so that's irrelevant. Does it mean anything later on, such as being a good thing to have come clinicals or match?

I've definitely seen more return from my AMA subscription than for my AMSA membership - if I could opt out of the next three years of AMSA and get my money back, I definitely would. The opportunities for AMSA aren't nearly as great as in the AMA, especially if you want to get involved in national politicking without such a liberal outlook. Plus, JAMA is cool 🙄.

 

[RockShox]

Is it worth it to join AMSA, though? They charge $75 to join, and give a Netter. I can get Netter for $70, so that's irrelevant. Does it mean anything later on, such as being a good thing to have come clinicals or match?

And in my year you only got the book if you signed up for their credit card not just if you joined. I thought that it was lame to be a credit ho for whatever kickback they were getting.

 

[Flaxmoore]

And in my year you only got the book if you signed up for their credit card not just if you joined. I thought that it was lame to be a credit ho for whatever kickback they were getting.

I saw that too. My credit's sterling (~780), but I don't want to get a really high-interest card for essentially no reason.

 

[notdeadyet]

And in my year you only got the book if you signed up for their credit card not just if you joined. I thought that it was lame to be a credit ho for whatever kickback they were getting.

Amen to that.

Also, make sure your school doesn't auto enroll you in the AMA. Many do.

 

[Keg]

I saw that too. My credit's sterling (~780), but I don't want to get a really high-interest card for essentially no reason.

Wait and look at the terms before you make that decision - AMSA's card, at least last year, was 7.8% fixed - you can't beat rates like that with many loans, much less a revolving account.

 

[Flaxmoore]

Wait and look at the terms before you make that decision - AMSA's card, at least last year, was 7.8% fixed - you can't beat rates like that with many loans, much less a revolving account.

But I don't charge anything as it is- going cash, debit card, or check. What can a card do for me?

 

[RockShox]

Wait and look at the terms before you make that decision - AMSA's card, at least last year, was 7.8% fixed - you can't beat rates like that with many loans, much less a revolving account.

Terms, shmerms... My point is that some groups give you a gift just for joining. They don't make you join and then make you get their branded credit card that they probably get a kickback for to get their free item ( I guess they gave up drug rep dinners and pens for Bank of America dinners and pens.) Additionally, there is something fishy about a group that constantly complains about students in debt and then hands out credit cards to the freshest med students out there....hmmm....

 

[Keg]

But I don't charge anything as it is- going cash, debit card, or check. What can a card do for me?

You should get in the habit of charging things and then paying the bill in full at the end of each month (so as to avoid finance charges) - mainly for two reasons. First of all, it's not hard to get a card with 1% cash back (sometimes up to 5%) - with the average cost of living at $14,000 per annum, getting $140 back in rebates sure sounds good to me. The other is to build some credit - someone with no revolving accounts or history of personal loans will have a hell of a time when it comes to buying a car or a home... unless you're paying cash for that, too.

 

[alfonzarel]

i joined AMSA.

something for your CV. opportunity to get involved if you want. free netters.

yes you have to sign up for a credit card. I have plenty of cards (that, like a previous poster discussed, i use often and then pay in full at the end of the month - which has played a role in my high credit score) so i cancelled it yesterday, the day I received it in the mail - it took 2.5 minutes with a simple phine call to BofA. they said "are you sure you want to cancel it?" I said "yes, thank you." they said "ok, done. thank you for calling BofA."

simple

 

[RockShox]

i joined AMSA.

something for your CV. opportunity to get involved if you want. free netters.

yes you have to sign up for a credit card. I have plenty of cards (that, like a previous poster discussed, i use often and then pay in full at the end of the month - which has played a role in my high credit score) so i cancelled it yesterday, the day I received it in the mail - it took 2.5 minutes with a simple phine call to BofA. they said "are you sure you want to cancel it?" I said "yes, thank you." they said "ok, done. thank you for calling BofA."

simple

In general don't do this once you get it. Your credit score is based a lot on debt to credit ratio. The more credit you have available with small amounts on cards the better. Also, it is based on the length you have your accounts if you have some accounts that were very short term it can take a hit on your average length and drop your score. These two could drop your score by up to 50 points each depending on the situation.

This is why it is a very bad idea to get in the habit of signing up to get some freebie then backing out.

 

[CindyLou]

I joined AMSA but didn't do the whole credit card thing just to get the Netters. Honestly, I have enough credit cards and I don't want to hurt my credit score.

AMSA seemed more like "worth it" for me, there are tons of leadership opportunites about both the national and local level.

 

[63768]

AMSA didn't seem worthwhile to me. i just joined AMA/TMA.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

AMSA is not only worthless, it's dangerous. It is a organization led by leftists and socialists and would like nothing more than all physicians being on a government salary of 60k a year working for however many hours the government tells them to work. Just check out their number one goal:

"To mobilize members in state and national coalitions to advocate for a health care reform process that involves sequential reform and a single-payer universal health care system."

I can't believe anyone would join an organization with such an unbalanced and extreme view of health care reform.

 

[happy snake]

9.99% is ok, but 15.99% is robbery. Call up CS at your current credit card, ask for a rate reduction, then ask for the supervisor (they can reduce it further. I worked for a CC CS, it's the routine game)...you'll end up with better terms than a new AMSA card. If you still want to pay 65 bucks and take the hit on your credit, then don't apply online or at the a recruitment drive. Instead, call FIA (the number's at the bottom of the application) and ask what they can do to get your business. The way these cards are designed, they can cut you deep deals (to beat your current cards) and still make a decent chunk of money from you.

I think, unless you're intent on being active in the AMSA, the deal with the Free Netter's Atlas is 👎. Here's the Netter's for 46 bucks.

Cheers!

 

[happy snake]

The AMA/ISMS/CMA (for chicago students) membership seems like a useful deal- a stehoscope, a reflex hammer, Stedman's for $128 for 4 years. None of the credit traps. I wish they could throw in JAMA for a discounted price.

 

[happy snake]

In general don't do this once you get it. Your credit score is based a lot on debt to credit ratio. The more credit you have available with small amounts on cards the better. Also, it is based on the length you have your accounts if you have some accounts that were very short term it can take a hit on your average length and drop your score. These two could drop your score by up to 50 points each depending on the situation.

This is why it is a very bad idea to get in the habit of signing up to get some freebie then backing out.

True. Sometimes more than 50 points. And it sticks for 5 years, just the time you are getting into residency and getting into the home loan market. And assuming for 4 years you have no income and increasing debt....

 

[Tired]

Stay concious of the fact that these are primarily political organizations whose clout is bolstered by the size of their membership.

For myself, I find much of the AMA political agenda diametrically opposed to my own views. I have never joined them because of it.

 

[RockShox]

Hey Tired I get what your are saying but i think calling them political bodies is a bit too simplistic. Well, at least the political body thing is definitely true for AMSA but not the AMA. True it has a political arm but it is much more than that. Every state medical society is associated with the AMA. And as every new resident this year is discovering as they fill out all the fun stuff for licensure the medical society has an intimite role in your life. Additionally, governing members of the NBME, AAMC, AMCAS, ACGME, Federation of Medical Societies, DHS, nursing boards, allied boards, are all associated with the AMA in some form or another. Even in my state the laws are written such that the governors appointments to medically related committees and oversight boards come from those recommended by the state society.

It is a huge error to teach new medical students that the AMA is just for lobbying. It was the organization that in the early 1800's pulled all of medicine together to rut out the quacks and thus created the profession of medicine in the US. It was the body that established almost all the priniciples that allopathic medicine is based on, the reason that medicine is evidence-based, the reason that not just anyone can be called a physician.

I am certainly not saying anything about the AMA's "views" but I think just pretending that if you don't join it's not a part of your everyday is a mistaken premise.

 

[Flaxmoore]

You should get in the habit of charging things and then paying the bill in full at the end of each month (so as to avoid finance charges) - mainly for two reasons. First of all, it's not hard to get a card with 1% cash back (sometimes up to 5%) - with the average cost of living at $14,000 per annum, getting $140 back in rebates sure sounds good to me. The other is to build some credit - someone with no revolving accounts or history of personal loans will have a hell of a time when it comes to buying a car or a home... unless you're paying cash for that, too.

I do have solid credit, though. I've one card that is actually used- paying off a semester of tuition from undergrad- and everything else is cash and check. That gives me one card with a balance, one with zero balance (emergencies) and a sweet credit score.

Given these, the "get a credit history" part doesn't work on me. Guess I'll spend some time looking into the political aspects of AMSA and the AMA.

 

[prg6315]

AMSA is not only worthless, it's dangerous. It is a organization led by leftists and socialists and would like nothing more than all physicians being on a government salary of 60k a year working for however many hours the government tells them to work. Just check out their number one goal:

"To mobilize members in state and national coalitions to advocate for a health care reform process that involves sequential reform and a single-payer universal health care system."

I can't believe anyone would join an organization with such an unbalanced and extreme view of health care reform.

I am so glad someone finally brought this up. I do not understand why educated medical students would join organizations just to "get a free book" without looking into the policies they are supporting as members. With the amount of debt you will incur as a medical student another $50 for a book is minimal, but support to a political lobby that you don't agree with is detrimental to your integrity and your career.

 

[happy snake]

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.asp?ID=D000000068&Name=American+Medical+Assn

The lousy credit card aside, I liked this about the AMSA: "A growing contingent of medical students, who believe the medical profession needs more detachment from big pharmaceutical firms, has resulted in a 'modest rebellion' known as the PharmFree project, established by the AMSA in 2002.[2] Spending on marketing to physicians, which includes gifts to med students, rose from $12.1 billion in 1999 to $22 billion in 2003. Based on the premise that taking gifts from pharmaceutical companies creates a conflict of interest for doctors, the AMSA now urges both students and practicing physicians to 'just say no' to all personal gifts from drugmakers.

Other PharmFree activism has included a march on Pfizer offices in New York, where med students assembled at the firm's front doors and dumped thousands of pens marked with the company's logo on the doorstep. AMSA also started the Counterdetailing Campaign in 2005 to encourage physicians-in-training to educate practicing physicians about alternative sources of information regarding pharmaceuticals. Since "detailing" is the concept of drug representatives selling biased information to physicians, AMSA came up with the concept of "counterdetailing" as the opposite concept, to bring physicians evidence-based sources of information. Thousands of medical students have since participated in the Counterdetailing Campaign."

....and I didn't like this about the AMA: "The AMA also derives a significant portion of its income by selling physician prescribing data to pharmaceutical companies.[18] It continues to do this despite physician outcry, claiming approximately 33 million in revenue in 2005 from this practice. However, the AMA does allow physicians to "opt-out" of having their information shared through the Physician Data Restriction Program (PDRP)."

...which is probably why:"Physician membership in the group has decreased to ~33% of practicing physicians, "roughly 244,500 of the estimated 850,000 physicians practicing in the USA. Membership numbers would be even lower, critics point out, if only physicians paying full dues were counted."
(couldn't find a reference for this one). - overall, the wikipedia article, I think should be disputed for a lack of neutrality. but the above facts seem correct.

 

[RockShox]

I know that wikipedia and youtube have become the new sexy so pardon me if I am old fashioned and use some peer-reviewed journals.


True the AMA has perhaps one of the largest medical databases in the world NOT just prescribing data but data on medical schools, student demographics, physician demographics, research, etc etc. The revenue number you qoute is the revenue from the use of ALL OF THE DATABASE not just the prescribing data.

"According to a national survey of physicians conducted by the Gallup Organization for the AMA in 2004, 77 percent were aware that pharmaceutical companies had access to physicians' prescribing data, and 66 percent opposed the release of these data to sales representatives. However, 68 percent believed that the release of the data had "neither a particularly positive nor a particularly negative impact on their medical practices"; 77 percent indicated that their concern would be alleviated if they were given the choice of preventing the release of their prescribing data to sales representatives." In otherwords, they would prefer not but would like a choice and that is exactly what the AMA gives them. NEJM Volume 354:2745-2747 June 29, 2006 Number 26

I personally don't care about the AMA vs AMSA vs Cats vs Dogs...debate right now.

But I do care a lot about being sloppy with sources. I am tired of media outlets and internet bloggers who try to qoute studies but only share part of the data or make up their own interpretations, or worse knowingly leave important information out such that they are telling the "truth" but not the whole truth.

I am also tired of people getting an altered view of history because they read some non-reviewed website. Suddenly, George Washington was not only a great general but a salsa dancer thanks to wikipedia (who sites a source but it is some estranged historian). Worse when they qoute Teen magazine as a source of health information.

i know this is a blog site and so we tend to be looser but at least as people who are educated enough to understand the difference between sources, statistics, and what studies really answer, we should be more rigid. I personally think that wikipedia will do more to destroy accurate renditions of history and science than any mass book burning or heretic could have done.

Nothing personal meant by it Happy Snake, i enjoy your posts just was talking in general.

 

[happy snake]

I know that wikipedia and youtube have become the new sexy ....... i enjoy your posts just was talking in general.

I hear your concern, RockShox. I should have read up more before quoting Wikipedia on this. I was lazy, I agree.

From what I understand, both the AMA and the AMSA are political (we can argue the degree though). The former harbors a conservative bias and the latter, a more liberal bias. One supports a role for free-market forces in health insurance, and the other actively supports the idea of a single-payer system. So if your membership decision in either organization is motivated by more than a free Netter's or a free stethoscope, it boils down to whether you identify with what the AMA and the AMSA stand for.

The AMSA: http://www.amsa.org/about/priorities.cfm
The AMA: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/12842.html

My problem is, I don't agree completely with everything the AMA or the AMSA stand for. So I guess this is my initiation into the politics of medicine and my first steps towards taking sides.