AMSA is way out of touch with American Medical students

[EC3]

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Members do not see this ad.

short story

:bowdown: to the pseudointellectual politician-types! you are so selfless you humble creature of the earth!

 

[Darko]

:bowdown: to the pseudointellectual politician-types! you are so selfless you humble creature of the earth!

Stop hiding behind your Internet pseudonym...

 

[aswst16]

And if you haven't seen the amount of effort it takes to be chair, maybe you should ask Alik Widge or Ben Galper, since they are immediate past chair and chair, respectively, of the AMA-MSS. It isn't just showing up, it takes quite a bit of work.

Sure, but would you really have wanted either of us to be Chair without having put in the work to understand all the "behind the scenes" workings of the organization, the needs of the membership as a whole, and the reasons things are why they are? (Plus, let me tell you, the work of getting to be Chair is nothing compared to the work of actually being Chair.)

To address the more general point of this thread, I'd like to point out that I have been an AMSA member for many years, despite not supporting single-payer health care. Others have said it already, but I will say it again: the first step in changing any organization is getting involved. Certainly, AMSA conventions would appear on the surface to be a rally of people in mental lock-step, but the truth of the organization is much more complex. I've found a wide spectrum of political and social leanings in conversations at both AMSA and AMA meetings, both in the general membership and the leadership. Don't make assumptions about what the attendees would or would not vote for; it all depends on who makes the case and how they present it.

Alik

 

[bth7]

Just to let everyone know, AMSA has complete gotten behind the gay students of Touro University Medical College.

Here's the press release that AMSA and GLMA are going to issue on Monday AM.

GLMA DECRIES DECISION BY TOURO UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE TO
BAN GAY STRAIGHT ALLIANCE STUDENT GROUP
SAN FRANCISCO - September 9, 2006 -

The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association today publicly decried the decision of the Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine, a private medical school in Vallejo, CA, to ban a
student group that focuses on the needs of lesbian, gay, bisexual and
transgender (LGBT) patients and students.

In 2002, students at the school formed the Touro University Gay-Straight
Alliance (TUGSA) with the mission of "promoting equitable health care
delivery through awareness and education, and . . . representing diversity
both on campus and in medicine." This month, Touro's administration, citing
the school's Orthodox Jewish heritage, suddenly revoked the group's charter
and rescinded its funding, which had already been approved.

"This situation is reminiscent of the decision of New York Medical College
to ban its LGBT student group in 2004 based on that school's Roman Catholic
heritage," GLMA's Executive Director, Joel Ginsberg, JD, MBA, stated.
"However, after long discussions, the NYMC administration recognized that
the LGBT community continues to be marginalized in healthcare and reinstated
the group. As a result of this situation, the American Medical Association
updated its policies to state that the AMA 'supports the right of medical
students and residents to form groups and meet on-site to further their
medical education or enhance patient care without regard to their gender,
gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, ethnic
origin, national origin or age.'"

Bryan Hopping, a second-year medical student at Touro, said: "It's
disturbing how out of touch the Touro administration is, because the
students and faculty are overwhelmingly supportive of us. I've been really
touched by conservative students who have come up to me and said, 'this club
has made me aware of my own homophobia - thank you.'"

Hopping continued: "The LGBT community has a unique set of health issues
that young doctors-to-be need to know about, so that LGBT people get the
care they're entitled to, just like any other group."

The Healthy People 2010 Companion Document on LGBT Health, commissioned by
the US Department of Health and Human Services, documents a number of health
disparities experienced by LGBT persons as a result of their sexual
orientation or gender identity. According to Ginsberg, "many of these
disparities are associated with the fear or outright discrimination LGBT
persons experience when they reveal their sexual orientation or gender
identity to their healthcare providers."

"One of the major goals of our 25th anniversary conference to be held in San
Francisco October 11-14, 'Bringing LGBT Healthcare into the Mainstream,' is
to counter the false notion that LGBT health is an exotic area of health.
All physicians encounter LGBT patients in their practices and need to know
how to care for them as for all their patients.

"Modeling discriminatory attitudes in medical education perpetuates fear and
discrimination against LGBT people generally and undermines the health of
LGBT patients. We at GLMA hope that the administration at Touro University -
which states that its 'values involve a commitment to social justice,
intellectual pursuit, and service to humanity' - will discuss this very
serious issue with us. In the meantime, we continue to explore other ways of
raising awareness about this issue in the hopes that these students will
eventually get the learning environment they need and deserve."

-30-

For 25 years, the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association has worked to ensure
equality in health care for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender patients
and health professionals. For more information, call 415-255-4547 or visit
www.glma.org.

 

[78222]

Just to let everyone know, AMSA has complete gotten behind the gay students of Touro University Medical College.

Here's the press release that AMSA and GLMA are going to issue on Monday AM.

Personally I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't support these students. Discriminating against a campus group based on sexuality is ridiculous.

*btw, there is a Jewish DO school?*

 

[deleted109597]

Sure, but would you really have wanted either of us to be Chair without having put in the work to understand all the "behind the scenes" workings of the organization, the needs of the membership as a whole, and the reasons things are why they are? (Plus, let me tell you, the work of getting to be Chair is nothing compared to the work of actually being Chair.)

To address the more general point of this thread, I'd like to point out that I have been an AMSA member for many years, despite not supporting single-payer health care. Others have said it already, but I will say it again: the first step in changing any organization is getting involved. Certainly, AMSA conventions would appear on the surface to be a rally of people in mental lock-step, but the truth of the organization is much more complex. I've found a wide spectrum of political and social leanings in conversations at both AMSA and AMA meetings, both in the general membership and the leadership. Don't make assumptions about what the attendees would or would not vote for; it all depends on who makes the case and how they present it.

Alik

Listen to this man. He knows a lot.
And I would agree with him. But I still say on average, that AMSA is more liberal than the AMA.
Just as there are people that aren't in the AMA that think the AMA is out of sync with the rest of the doctors (since there are many that aren't in the AMA), most stereotypical statements are made by people who don't even attend the meetings.

 

[Shredder]

true.

You ever see the type of people that are attracted to student leadership roles? ::shudders::

Ha, these are some great posts. It's why I've lost hope in student orgs.

 

[bth7]

I'm joining the AMA.

THE LGBT community thanks you for joining the AMA. The AMA has made their position on LGBT issues very clear.

You can check out the AMA's policy on LGBT issues on the AMA's website:

H-60.940 Partner Co-Adoption
Our AMA will support legislative and other efforts to allow the adoption of a child by the same-sex partner, or opposite sex non-married partner, who functions as a second parent or co-parent to that child. (Res. 204, A-04)

H-65.976 Nondiscriminatory Policy for the Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population
Our AMA encourages physician practices, medical schools, hospitals, and clinics to broaden any nondiscriminatory statement made to patients, health care workers, or employees to include " sexual orientation, sex, or perceived gender" in any nondiscrimination statement. (Res. 414, A-04)

H-65.979 Sexual Orientation as an Exclusionary Criterion for Youth Organization.
Our AMA asks youth oriented organizations to reconsider exclusionary policies that are based on sexual orientation. (Res. 414, A-01)

H-65.983 Nondiscrimination Policy.
The AMA affirms that it has not been its policy now or in the past to discriminate with regard to sexual orientation. (Res. 1, A-93; Reaffirmed: CCB Rep. 6, A-03)

 

[Old_Mil]

And i want to know how it happened and why the majority of students that join are not represented at all by AMSA. Most students join for the free Netters and then never give it another thought. While AMSA, which claims to represent us, goes around supporting causes that may not be in the best interests of physicians or have anything to do with medicine at all.

Case in point, last year AMSA jumped into "GLTB issues" and made that a huge focus of theirs (a friend tells me a AMSA conference she went to was almost entirely about GLBT issues). Now don't get me wrong, I completely support gay rights and the right of Homosexuals to get married. Nonethless, this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICINE.

What are your thoughts?

AMSA used to be the AMA-MSS. Back in the 60s, they voted to unaffiliate themselves from the AMA (I'm guessing because they took liberal stands on issues that the broader AMA didn't mirror).

I'm not an AMSA member; I don't support single payer health care and really don't feel like wasting my time advocating for anything through a "student" organization without direct ties to the big leagues.

 

[Ypo.]

And i want to know how it happened and why the majority of students that join are not represented at all by AMSA. Most students join for the free Netters and then never give it another thought. While AMSA, which claims to represent us, goes around supporting causes that may not be in the best interests of physicians or have anything to do with medicine at all.

Case in point, last year AMSA jumped into "GLTB issues" and made that a huge focus of theirs (a friend tells me a AMSA conference she went to was almost entirely about GLBT issues). Now don't get me wrong, I completely support gay rights and the right of Homosexuals to get married. Nonethless, this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICINE.

What are your thoughts?

Dude AMSA sucks. They were supposed to organize primary care week, but instead they waited until the last minute and then dumped half of the respnosibility on me (I'm a student leader in the family medicine interest group).

 

[frycek]

Originally Posted by surebreC
And i want to know how it happened and why the majority of students that join are not represented at all by AMSA. Most students join for the free Netters and then never give it another thought. While AMSA, which claims to represent us, goes around supporting causes that may not be in the best interests of physicians or have anything to do with medicine at all.

Case in point, last year AMSA jumped into "GLTB issues" and made that a huge focus of theirs (a friend tells me a AMSA conference she went to was almost entirely about GLBT issues). Now don't get me wrong, I completely support gay rights and the right of Homosexuals to get married. Nonethless, this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICINE.

What are your thoughts?

Other discussions aside, this original point about GLBT issues in AMSA is way off base. Just a brief look at AMSA's website shows that they have six actions committess (advocacy, community & publich health, global health, health policy, humanistic medicine, and medical education.) The LGBT group is just one of four subdivisions of the advocacy committee. AMSA did not "jump into" these issues last year (they've been advocating for LGBT-related health issues for a long time), nor is their main focus - it's just one among many. If your friend really saw only LGBT issues at a national conference, then she must have been VERY selective in which workshops she went to.

And how could you not see how LGBT identities affect medical care? Sexual health is a large part of basic healthcare, and if a doctor makes it through medical school with the assumption that all patients are heterosexual, then that doctor will be very ill-equipped to provide care for many, many patients, (no matter what the doctor's personal beliefs on the issue.) There are real healthcare disparities for LGBT patients, backed up by hard scientific data (I did a paper on this for our social context of medicine class last year.) These problems won't be solved until doctors learn to provide culturally competent care for their LGBT patients and until institutions are changed to promote health for people of various sexual orientations and gender identities. No, it's not the main challenge facing medicine now, but it is still an important consideration, and I think it's great that AMSA is working on it as one of the many things they do.

 

[Ypo.]

Other discussions aside, this original point about GLBT issues in AMSA is way off base. Just a brief look at AMSA's website shows that they have six actions committess (advocacy, community & publich health, global health, health policy, humanistic medicine, and medical education.) The LGBT group is just one of four subdivisions of the advocacy committee. AMSA did not "jump into" these issues last year (they've been advocating for LGBT-related health issues for a long time), nor is their main focus - it's just one among many. If your friend really saw only LGBT issues at a national conference, then she must have been VERY selective in which workshops she went to.

And how could you not see how LGBT identities affect medical care? Sexual health is a large part of basic healthcare, and if a doctor makes it through medical school with the assumption that all patients are heterosexual, then that doctor will be very ill-equipped to provide care for many, many patients, (no matter what the doctor's personal beliefs on the issue.) There are real healthcare disparities for LGBT patients, backed up by hard scientific data (I did a paper on this for our social context of medicine class last year.) These problems won't be solved until doctors learn to provide culturally competent care for their LGBT patients and until institutions are changed to promote health for people of various sexual orientations and gender identities. No, it's not the main challenge facing medicine now, but it is still an important consideration, and I think it's great that AMSA is working on it as one of the many things they do.

What he said.

 

[Medinsane]

In terms of the LGBT issue, the main reason AMSA picked it up is because in 2005, the California Medical Association filed an amicus brief in the Benitez v. North Coast Women's Care Medical Group, supporting the right of physicians to refuse care to lesbians on the basis of the physicians' religious beliefs.

Huh I didn't know that. I really appreciate that LGBT issues was the focus this time around because LGBT people are often in the shadows in regards to everything, including healthcare. Anything that sheds light and works on education involving an often discriminated people is good in my books. 👍

 

[Flaxmoore]

You did notice this thread is a year and a half old, right?

 

[riverwoman1040]

My premise is that organizations tend to form an internal culture which can be very difficult to change, especially if nothing appears to be wrong (i.e. people are still joining for that free Netters). How easy would it be to get anything done if you were a flaming liberal in the GOP? I have a feeling that the only way to get AMSA to focus is to redude their membership - something I doubt will happen so long as they give out "free" netters.

The problem in this argument is that as a flaming liberal in the GOP, your views do not represent the views of the majority of the party. You're claiming that in AMSA your views would represent the views of the majority. It's a completely different situation. If republican voters somehow developed liberal views, a flaming liberal would absolutly get something done in the GOP. Granted the world might implode...

 

[MONKEYBOY]

Obviously, they work you (Netter and a credit card) to get a number. Numbers indicate pull. Threatening that AMSA's idea (whatever they pull for, I do not know) is supported by 100000000 medical students means something, somewhere, to someone...I guess.

Don't be a tool and sign up for a credit card.

Welcome to the cut-throat medical landscape. Keep your hand on your wallet, whoops it's empty and will remain that way 😉

 

[BrainBuff]

You ever see the type of people that are attracted to student leadership roles? ::shudders::

so true!!! Remember Bill Clinton?

 

[LadyWolverine]

You ever see the type of people that are attracted to student leadership roles? ::shudders::

I lol'd so hard at this. So true. 😛

 

[bcat85]

You are surely aware that the American health care system, in addition to being entirely unsustainable, unsafe, and inefficient in its current form, has pervasive health inequalities that lead our country to rank below many non-industrialized countries in terms of health quality despite spending a fortune more than any other country on earth.

I believe that you may be falling victim to a cause/effect theory which has very little to do with the quality of American healthcare. "Pervasive health inequalities" is another way of saying "the poor are fat because they don't eat healthy." Now I do not argue that the poor may be somewhat delinquent in their nutritional knowledge, but I believe that our societal structure with regards to nutrition is significantly different than many European countries. You go to Hopkins, right? So down the street from East Baltimore campus is the "market." There are six places at the market who serve fried chicken, and several others who serve various other unhealthy meals. Now you of course wouldn't find this in France or Britain. It could logically be concluded that the cumulative effect of this is that we eat less healthy and thus have higher rates of obesity and, subsequently, cardiac problems, strokes, hypertension, etc. It is not "healthcare inequalities" that lower our quality of healthcare, but rather it is "the absolute inability to stop eating."

Edit: Whoops... old thread.

 

[Jalopycat]

I joined AMSA during our med school orientation. It was very rushed and I didn't have a chance to check into it. I assumed that it was part of the AMA. After I started getting that awful publication they send out, I realized AMSA didn't represent me at all so I tried to get out. I tried everything to get un-enrolled from their group. I even emailed them asking to be taken off their mailing list and explained that they don't represent my views at all. Nothing worked. The only thing that finally un-enrolled me was graduating from medical school!

 

[docbot]

I joined AMSA during our med school orientation. It was very rushed and I didn't have a chance to check into it. I assumed that it was part of the AMA. After I started getting that awful publication they send out, I realized AMSA didn't represent me at all so I tried to get out. I tried everything to get un-enrolled from their group. I even emailed them asking to be taken off their mailing list and explained that they don't represent my views at all. Nothing worked. The only thing that finally un-enrolled me was graduating from medical school!

Well for god's sake, don't pay them dues!

 

[bcat85]

I'm glad I saw this thread before I accidentally joined the AMSA at orientation.

 

[badasshairday]

Ama>>>amsa ?

 

[Doctor J]

Ama>>>amsa ?

Vastly.

 

[da8s0859q]

I joined AMSA during our med school orientation. ... After I started getting that awful publication they send out...

I realize I'm only a premedder (hopefully for just a few more months), but when I first read TNP, I was like, "Cool, couple of interesting stories." When #2 came, I realized that it is the most ridiculously leftist magazine I've seen, and that I should depart the AMSA's ranks as soon as possible, if not yesterday.

 

[bcat85]

Ama>>>amsa ?

Word

 

[novastorm]

AMSA scares me. Their views scare me, the people they have speak scare me. It's like a medical student run tabloid sometimes. I just hope the FBI doesn't open a file on me because I went to one of their meetings. (And yes I know this thread is old, I didn't want to start a new one)

 

[yeasterbunny]

Oh what a load of BS. The problem with AMSA is that they are the "American Medical Student Association", not the "Leftist Gay Dolphin You Can't Hug Your Children With Nuclear Arms Medical Student Association".

That reminds me, the big LGDYCHYCWNAMSA meeting is this weekend.😛

Seriously though, yes they are leftist, no there isn't much that should need to be said about LGBT issues, but at least they are trying to get our economic hardship deferment back. That alone is enough to get me interested. Interestingly, 26 of 29 congressmen listed on http://www.amsa.org/legislativecenter/ who support legistlation to get our deferment back are republicans.

 

[gujuDoc]

And i want to know how it happened and why the majority of students that join are not represented at all by AMSA. Most students join for the free Netters and then never give it another thought. While AMSA, which claims to represent us, goes around supporting causes that may not be in the best interests of physicians or have anything to do with medicine at all.

Case in point, last year AMSA jumped into "GLTB issues" and made that a huge focus of theirs (a friend tells me a AMSA conference she went to was almost entirely about GLBT issues). Now don't get me wrong, I completely support gay rights and the right of Homosexuals to get married. Nonethless, this HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDICINE.

What are your thoughts?

Your friend is right. Iwent to a national convention like 5 years ago and almost everyone there was all about nationalized healthcare or gay rights and issues!!! Even the friend of mine who was an officer in national amsa that year told us so when we met up with him there.

I think that's why after they broke off from the AMA in the 1960s, the AMA created a new student sector of AMA.

AMSA is way tooooooooo far on the left.

 

[plainfacts]

Seems like AMSA care about other people. The cardinal sin of SDN.

 

[GZA]

Seems like AMSA care about other people. The cardinal sin of SDN.

a prize-winning point indeed!

 

[novastorm]

I dunno it seems to me if you compared "religions" to medical school organizations i would relate AMSA to Scientology. A regional AMSA person who spoke to us was literally that bat**** crazy. I know they mean well but they are sort of misguided about things.

 

[michaelrack]

If republican voters somehow developed liberal views, a flaming liberal would absolutly get something done in the GOP. Granted the world might implode...

Many republican voters did develop liberal views, and now we're stuck with McCain as the party's presidential candidate.

 

[VPDcurt]

Universal Healthcare (I can't believe there is a group of medical students lobbying for something that would destroy our earning potential and make us slaves to the government).

AA: nuff said

Most med students are way too naive and idealistic. They are still in the "I can help save the world" mindset because most have not held a real job or been outside of an academic environment. They think independence is walking to the dining hall and swiping your student ID that has a meal plan on it paid for by their parents. They don't understand the entire reimbursement concept and how it will affect their lives and their families down the road.

 

[78222]

I'm glad to see this thread keeps getting bumped up. Maybe it will keep a few M1s from joining an organization that doesn't represent our interests in the slightest.

 

[da8s0859q]

God, I thought this thread went to hell already.

/unsubscribes

 

[plainfacts]

I'm glad to see this thread keeps getting bumped up. Maybe it will keep a few M1s from joining an organization that doesn't represent our interests in the slightest.

It represents my interests! Of course, my paycheck is not my no 1 priority.

 

[Medinsane]

For those saying that AMSA does not represent your interest. Why don't you act so that changes. I joined AMSA because I wanted to DO something. I wanted to educate myself and my peers. I wanted to be more than a person that prescribes medicine.

Fact: AMSA decreased your residency working hours
Fact: AMSA is striving to be Pharmfree so our decision making is not based on the dollar

How is that not an interest to us and our patients?

 

[dilated]

Fact: AMSA is striving to be Pharmfree so our decision making is not based on the dollar

That's really the best example of something AMSA is doing in our interest? Banning pharm reps is actually doing us a favor because we are too stupid (or corrupt?) to decide how to interact with them ourselves. Next they can work on banning fatty foods so our nutritional decision making offers only AMSA Approved Nutrition.

Meanwhile the government and insurers continue to bend over doctors unabated and unopposed by AMSA. A legitimate medical student organization would actually stand up for things in our interest like fighting the extortion that is step 2 CS.

 

[yeasterbunny]

A legitimate medical student organization would actually stand up for things in our interest like fighting the extortion that is step 2 CS.

Amen to that! DOWN WITH STEP 2 BS!

 

[Ashers]

Amen to that! DOWN WITH STEP 2 BS!

I agree!

Many republican voters did develop liberal views, and now we're stuck with McCain as the party's presidential candidate.

Totally. Ugh.

 

[FoundationsFan5]

Most med students are way too naive and idealistic. They are still in the "I can help save the world" mindset because most have not held a real job or been outside of an academic environment. They think independence is walking to the dining hall and swiping your student ID that has a meal plan on it paid for by their parents. They don't understand the entire reimbursement concept and how it will affect their lives and their families down the road.

This is so accurate that it's scary...

 

[deuist]

Fact: AMSA decreased your residency working hours

Really? I thought Congress decreased the work hours. And even then, I'm pretty sure that a New York Times journalist was the catalyst for that change.

 

[scorpia]

dude(s), the American Medical Association doesn't represent all doctors or all medical students and people either choose not to join, or join for reasons other than agreeing with AMA's positions.

AMSA just represents its members, so if you don't agree with either their actions/policies/ideas you don't need to be a member.

AMSA defines exactly why i want to be a doctor and every issue they deal with is very relevant to medicine. AMA is the opposite, so i just don't get involved with them.

 

[78222]

dude(s), the American Medical Association doesn't represent all doctors or all medical students and people either choose not to join, or join for reasons other than agreeing with AMA's positions.

AMSA just represents its members, so if you don't agree with either their actions/policies/ideas you don't need to be a member.

AMSA defines exactly why i want to be a doctor and every issue they deal with is very relevant to medicine. AMA is the opposite, so i just don't get involved with them.

AMSA represents the students in charge and few members that pay attention to what they are doing. Most people join AMSA because of the "free" Netters and because the name sounds like it would be a good organization for med students to join. The majority of members have absolutely no idea what AMSA stands for or supports and never think twice about it after that first week of orientation.

 

[78222]

btw, lets see what AMSA's agenda is for the year...

Congress must ensure equity in access to quality, affordable health care for communities of color and underserved populations.


Congress must adequately fund the Title VII and VIII programs of the US Public Health Service Act.


Congress must regulate the conflict of interest to increase professionalism in interactions between pharmaceutical industry representatives and prescribers.
👎thumbdown I really don't need congress to regulate whether or not I can receive a Zosyn pen

Congress must take proactive steps to reduce and eventually eliminate medical student indebtedness by reforming the Higher Education Act.


Congress must assure access to comprehensive reproductive health services.


States should support civil marriage for gay and lesbian couples.
--what does this have to do with medical students? Anyone? I support gay marriage but I don't think it should be an issue on the AMSA agenda.


Congress must invest in global health.


Congress must overhaul America's health care system to create a publicly accountable, publicly funded, single payer system of health care for all.
We are being completely sold out by these *******s. I'd like to know what percentage of AMSA members actually support a socialised healthcare system (which is exactly what this is).

Congress must invest in incentives to address shortages in the primary care physician and health care work force in underserved communities.

 

[scorpia]

well, students should know about AMSA or any other organization before they join it. AMSA isn't secretive about what it stands for. it's all over their website. if anyone joined AMSA for the free Netters, they got what they wanted, and shouldn't complain when AMSA doesn't represent their views.