Dismiss Notice

Interview Feedback: Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Interviewing Masterclass: Free masterclass on interviewing from SDN and Medical College of Georgia

An Article About Yale's Entering Class: A Must Read, and Interesting Issues Raised

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Premed315U, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. Premed315U

    Premed315U Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    From far and wide,
    In class of their own

    Along with top-notch academic credentials, first-year students bring a wealth of diverse experience.

    Collectively, the 100 members of the Class of 2005 have interned in the White House, built an orphanage in the Dominican Republic, taught math to ex-convicts, worked in emergency rooms, helped run a women?s health clinic in Armenia, conducted research on diabetes, studied insects in the marshes of Costa Rica and narrowly escaped the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Their numbers include a VISTA volunteer, a biologist, a lifeguard, an emergency medical technician and a student who speaks Mandarin, Cantonese and Spanish.

    This diverse and eclectic group of 46 men and 54 women came together on August 28 for their induction into the world of medicine?the donning of the white jacket that identifies them as healers. With that act came words of caution from the new chair of surgery.

    ?Medicine without magic, without empathy, without insight into the desires and aspirations of the individual patient,? said Robert Udelsman, M.D., M.S.B., M.B.A., ?can miss the mark.?

    In a talk at the White Jacket Ceremony titled ?Medical Mysticism,? Udelsman invoked the symbolism of the occasion. ?The white coat is but one of many tools, like the stethoscope,? he said. ?It is in part a prop that has become associated with trust, faith and magic. We empower you to use these tools, to use them wisely, to use them selflessly.? Udelsman?s call for a mix of skills, knowledge and compassion echoed long-standing traditions of medical education at Yale.

    And, indeed, the Yale System of Medical Education was the main appeal of the medical school for the overwhelming majority of incoming students. A report from the admissions office revealed other facts about the new class. The students? mean age is 23.5, and their cumulative GPA is 3.74. Nearly all in the group, 96, have engaged in research or independent study in science. In the group are five students with master?s degrees, one holder of a Ph.D. degree, 49 members of minority groups, 89 science majors, and graduates of 50 colleges, with Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth and Brown leading the list.

    On September 20, at a meeting of the Medical School Council, Richard A. Silverman, director of admissions, used the group?s own words from their application essays to paint a picture of the class. One student mentored learning-disabled children. Another was born in Sudan and lived in Syria, Oman and Thailand. Yet another grew up speaking English, French and an African dialect called Dida.

    ?Statistics,? said Thomas L. Lentz, M.D. ?64, associate dean for admissions and professor and vice chair of cell biology, ?don?t reveal the remarkable accomplishments that you have made outside the classroom. These are in many different areas such as health care, research, campus government, athletics, letters, music and journalism. It is through these achievements that you demonstrate the qualities, such as leadership, creativity, motivation, independence and organization, that we are looking for in our students.?
     
  2. Premed315U

    Premed315U Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bumpety Bump
     
  3. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    1
    What interesting issues did this raise? And why is it a "must read"? --Trek
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Premed315U

    Premed315U Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought that this part was interesting because people think that majors and research don't matter, but almost all of the Yale students do have research experience and surprisingly almost all are science majors.

    "Nearly all in the group, 96, have engaged in research or independent study in science. In the group are five students with master?s degrees, one holder of a Ph.D. degree, 49 members of minority groups, 89 science majors,"

    This is the first written evidence that I have read that actually indicates that research and major may indeed influence decisions. But I'd like to hear other ideas and perhaps other schools have printed similar articles?
     
  5. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well this IS YALE after all.. remember, they have REQUIRED RESEARCH in their curriculum. No one ever said that research did not matter. If you are looking at top research universities, you better have some research under your belt.

    so is this saying that 49 out of the 100 students are minorites??? That number sounds ridiculously high...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dude- this is a "let's stroke ourselves" type piece from yale- they're gonna hype anything they can, including the scientific prowess of the students. --Trek
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    20
    Plus, assuming that each achievement (i.e. women's clinic in Armenia, can speak Cantonese+Mandarin+Spanish, etc.) belongs to a single student, that still leave at least 85 other students who have done NONE of that, and they probably have 3.9 GPA and 38 MCAT, have EC's such as intramural volleyball, member of premed club, shadow some docs (i.e. a laundry list) while doing summer undergrad research.....

    I had 3.85 GPA and 38 MCAT when I applied three years ago. I speak two foreign languages (and I can read Chinese novels no problem and write chinese characters with the help of a dictionary) + English (and I scored 12 on verbal). I started learning English when I was in grade 6 and did not come to the US until I started college (albeit, I lived in western Canada but that's pretty damn far from Yale) :) I also studied abroad in England for my junior year. So how come I was rejected post-interview from Yale without a waitlist a couple years ago? Why, in my place, did they instead accept a white American born in Northeast, went to Harvard, Yale or Brown, get high GPA and high MCAT, did some summer research and volunteer in his hometown hospital (Heck, there gotta be one or more of them fitting the above description per class, right?)?

    anyway, my point is that it does not matter. The listing of different achievements by some selected Yale students probably do not reflect who the majority of them really are. The majority probably have high GPA and MCAT, went to Ivy league schools, got some research and EC's and not much of anything else.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thewonderer...you know that you fit into that characterization that you make of yalies...
    almost exactly..very high mcat..very high gpa...

    You should have gotten in there....prolly wasn't a good interview or maybe they felt you couldn't hack it in the "yale system"..no offense...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. LizardKing

    LizardKing Veteran Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yale loves Ivy Leaguers. It's obvious. They have 17 peeps from Yale and 17 from Harvard in their first year class right now. Non-Ivy Schools? They only have 33 people total. 33! That is NOT diversity. Other schools like Cornell or Brown on average are represented by two people each school.

    So, yes, Yale does seem to favor Ivy League students. That's just the reality.
     
  10. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2002
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
    This article does nothing but prove my previous post about school admissions. Schools pass over the well rounded student in favor of someone who has done something unique, irrespective of the differences in academic standards. Long past are the days when working hard and doing well in school are enough to get you into a top-10 medical school.
     
  11. none

    none 1K Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    5
    I concur that it is simply more of Yale loving itself.
     
  12. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    20
    I am not sure if Scooby Doo and I are on the same page.

    My point was that I fit the speak three language and travel the world type (which Yale seems like to "brag" in the article) and I also have high GPA/MCAT but yet Yale did not want me. So in fact, my suspicion is that Yale is exaggerating their love for uniqueness. Instead, they probably have more people with high GPA/MCAT (what I mean is 3.98 and 41) than those with unique life experiences. The three people I know to have gotten into Yale in the past 3 years have 3.96, 4.0 and 4.0 GPA and 36, 38 and 40 MCAT respectively. So no, my numbers were not high enough to their taste.

    But I guess that Scooby Doo thinks my GPA/MCAT is more impressive than my ability to speak three languages and my residence in 4 countries (since that is what he or she likes to focus on). Oh well.... my premed days are long long gone anyway.

    I disagree with ValleyGal's comment about "Schools pass over the well rounded student in favor of someone who has done something unique, irrespective of the differences in academic standards."

    Because as I said, even if each person brings a unique experience mentioned in THAT article, there are still at least 85 others who have done NONE of that. Plus, those three people I know who have been accepted to Yale have not done anything unique in their lives (well, good research, play instruction for 10+ years but nothing about saving kids from landmines in Somalia). In fact, I would not call them well-rounded either since getting 4.0 at an Ivy undergrad for one of those three people required some serious intense studying (and two of them are biochem major while the other one is chem).
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    You know what man...

    Take a pill G...

    YOU said that they only take people with high MCATs and high GPA's. You, my friend, are a fool. You have a 3.85! That's freakin great. You have a [email protected]$#5in 38 on your damn MCAT man. Oh please. Once you get that high, it doesn't matter between 38, 39, etc etc. you have your real world experience..you are the bomb. Soooooo, what I was saying is Yale seems to take it's essay EXTREMELY freakingly important! You probably jacked it up somehow. When I interviewed there (yes, with number MUCH MUCH LESS than those), all they could talk about was my essay on "why yale" and how I would fit into the yale system. I got waitlisted but what more could I expect with 9 other waitlists <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
    Look at all the people who posted their acceptances on the OFFICIAL Yale thread. I don't think one of them goes to an Ivy League. Lots are from Cali. no Ivies in Cali last time I checked. Sounds like you are just stroking yourself in your post....Dude, I wish I had as much experience as is in your little pinky on your left toe. (seriously...I don't have nearly what you have man)...WHAT I AM SAYING IS: You didn't git into their "yale system"...OR your interview wasn't good enough. <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
    Ok?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. locitamd

    locitamd Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    2
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thewonderer:
    <strong>... even if each person brings a unique experience mentioned in THAT article, there are still at least 85 others who have done NONE of that. Plus, those three people I know who have been accepted to Yale have not done anything unique in their lives (well, good research, play instruction for 10+ years but nothing about saving kids from landmines in Somalia). In fact, I would not call them well-rounded either since getting 4.0 at an Ivy undergrad for one of those three people required some serious intense studying (and two of them are biochem major while the other one is chem).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Perhaps this article just isn't doing justice to rest of the class' profile/achievements. My suspicion is that since this is an excerpt from a speech, time constraints may not have allowed for acknowledging the extent of the diversity represented. I specifically wrote achievements rather than "experiences," because my impression is that Yale looks for students who have not only done amazing things (high scores included), but seeks those students who have emerged from their experiences enriched with unique perspectives.

    Just a 3 a.m. opinion, take it as you will.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. cacahuetes

    cacahuetes Junior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2002
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    The article only represents a smidgen of the class. Almost all 100 people in the class have crazy life stories and experiences. The article only discusses a few, because it is precisely that: an article, not a laundry list of student achievements.
     
  16. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    20
    I seem to be the only person on this thread who thinks that Yale is not all that it is touted to be.

    You will find out that what I said is true (or mostly true) once you enter med school and spend 2-3 years there.

    I don't want to argue with premeds. I personally feel that all top 10 schools are similar. Lots of people with high stats but little personality or no awesome life experience routinely attend there, whether be at Hopkins or Yale.

    You can go ahead and feel the awe of Yale and feel good about your waitlist. And if you probably would have gotten in if you had higher numbers. They probably took a person with bland essay and ok interview over you because he or she has gone to Harvard/Yale and has higher GPA AND MCAT than you have.

    Face it, they have more students from Harvard and Yale (or princetone, or stanford, or brown, etc.) than any other schools represented. I don't know why you even want to argue against that. Didn't they give you their matchlist on the day you interviewed? Didn't that booklet contain some info on the undergradudate schools these people attended (along with the titles of the theses they did at Yale med)?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. med student

    med student Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Thewonderer it is obvious that you are bitter that yale did not take you. Fact of the matter is since they interviewed you they were obviously interersted in you and your life experiences. The fact that you were rejected post interview means the interviewer probobly did not like you or feel that you would fit in with the school. If they were only looking for high scores they would not have needed to interview you to see that your scores were not high enough (hey you said it not me). So since they interviewed you they obviously wanted to hear more about your life story.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2001
    Messages:
    853
    Likes Received:
    20
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by med student:
    <strong>Hey Thewonderer it is obvious that you are bitter that yale did not take you. Fact of the matter is since they interviewed you they were obviously interersted in you and your life experiences. The fact that you were rejected post interview means the interviewer probobly did not like you or feel that you would fit in with the school. If they were only looking for high scores they would not have needed to interview you to see that your scores were not high enough (hey you said it not me). So since they interviewed you they obviously wanted to hear more about your life story.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for your insight. Your intelligence is amazing because you can actually look inside my head and tell me things that does not exist in my mind. Perhaps, you are a Freudian expert after all.

    Now, get back to the original topic. Did you interview at Yale? Did you see the list that in the entering class of 1998, 36 people are from Harvard and Yale alone and if you add people from other ivies + stanford + Duke + Hopkins the total is 62 out of 100 students? Do you think that in the last couple years, Yale has suddenly seen the light at the end of the tunnel and decided to accept more students from state schools than from the "ivies?" Do you actually know people who get into Yale and their lists of EC's? If you do, did you hang out with them in undergrads and know who they really are? Have you, from your premed office, seen the list of accepted students and their GPA/MCAT to UCSF, Yale, Hopkins, etc.?

    It is so obvious that you have no clue about how admissions at top 10 med school including Yale functions.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    3,797
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thewonderer,

    Just wondering..where do you go to med school now?

    Have you seen Columbia's class list? Damn, it's freaking wild! I know that me and another guy definitely don't fit into that category of super high MCAT and GPA like you were talking about...and I don't have super EC's...but i guess I really clicked with my interviewer...

    Am I the token Cali boy?

    Must be...according to you....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. med student

    med student Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    1
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Thanks for your insight. Your intelligence is amazing because you can actually look inside my head and tell me things that does not exist in my mind. Perhaps, you are a Freudian expert after all.
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Somethings things are just so obvious about a person that they come up and smack you in your face the minute you talk to a person. Your bitterness towards yale is one of these cases because it was abundantly apparent from your first post.
    I will agree that they alot of there students come from a few top schools but this doesn't mean the place is not diverse because not everyone from harvard is the same. So even if the entire class was from yale undergrad I don't think you could argue that the place is not diverse because just look at the diversity in yale undergrad.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...

Share This Page