Anatomy and cadavers

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by alex28, May 12, 2000.

  1. alex28

    alex28 Junior Member

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    Does anyone know if it is possible to osteopathic school and participate in anatomy without physically contacting cadavers? Due to my religion, I am not permitted to touch bodies that are dead. I can only touch bodies of patients whose lives I am trying to save (That's assuming I can go to medical school.). I truly want to become a doctor and help people, but I can't participate in the traditional anatomy class. I've heard that some progressive schools have anatomy more based in a virtual experience with computer aided learning. I could also atttend anatomy as long as I didn't have to touch -- only observe.
    Does anyone have suggestions of schools I could attend?

    Hopeful doctor,
    Alex
     
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  3. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    this brings up a lot of ethical questions:
    Will you ever be able to perform cpr?
    what if the patient dies while you are performing cpr, do you immediately cease cpr or do you try to revive them?

    are you allowed to touch your own fingernails? or scar tissue? or pathology samples that need to be taken to the lab?
    how much of the body has to be dead before you can no longer touch it? Is there a certain percentage? is it a specific organ that has to be dead? if a person has gangrenous limbs, how close can you get to these limbs while still touching the person...are you allowed to debride dead flesh?
    I hope you dont think i am making fun of this, its simply that i find it fascinating...for 1600 years we were unable to save millions of peoples lives because the catholic church placed restrictions upon cadaver dissection (THEY DIDNT ALLOW IT)...
    modern surgery springs from the 1700's when there was a quantum leap away from this hands off philosophy and a keen interest in anatomy has proved invaluable ever since...so, the question I also would ask is: how can you not touch a cadever because it violates your religion, however its fine for you to watch while others touch away and clear all that dead flesh out of the way so you can view the organs and structures...are you condemming these folks to some fate worse than death, are you truly helping them attain the same level of righteousness that you are struggling for? is there any guilt by association?
    This wish to WATCH but not participate seems very selfish, because now YOU can make money and live eternally in some paradise, while these poor saps cower in purgatory for defiling the dead corpse (and in the process allowing you to watch)...again, I assure you i am not trying to be insulting, this topic simply fascinates me.
     
  4. zilberman

    zilberman Junior Member

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    What religon is that, may i ask? I believe that medicine/science are a complete opposite of religon and both cannot be combined. One has got to give to make room for the other. If my physician told me that he cannot touch dead tissue i would go somewhere else, it is clearly getting in a way of proper medical practice. Please think hard before applying to med schools, if u want to be a physician please be a good one. When a bad engineer makes a mistake your brakes sqweel, but when a doctor makes a mistake a person dies. I would hate to see you become an incapable physican because your religous views get in a way.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Member

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    I guess it's possible. At NYCOM, we have 5-6 people assigned to a cadaver and usually only half the group actually do the work. So, it is possible to just observe during the anatomy lab sessions and actually pass the anatomy course without touching a cadaver.
     
  6. mafanah4

    mafanah4 Junior Member

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    You could do it but not with the ok of the faculty.
    Get into med school first then worry about the dead bodies.
     
  7. Liquid_Tension

    Liquid_Tension Senior Member

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    Alex.....lets get real here dude. You want to be a doctor, yet your idiotic and moronic religion has these strict rules that forbid you to do certain things. HAHA. I laugh at how stupid religion can be! If you want to be a doctor, then the hell with your religion. Do you really want to obey these strict rules for the rest of your life??? Drop the religion and join the medical community! But if you are going to abide by your naive religion, then forget about medicine and look into joining a monestary. The choice is yours, and I really think you should get a reality check, and stop wasting your time with religion....it really is mostly nonsense. take care,
    -freely flowing Liquid
     
  8. siulrc

    siulrc Member

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    This time I have to agree with Adrian. The real question is not if you can go through medical school without having to touch a cadaevr or a ny dead specimen; the real question is what are you going to du when you have to face teh reality fo death as a physician. What would you do if you patient goes into cardiorespiratory arrest and actually dies and extreme measures are needed to bring him or her back to live. Are you just going to stand and observe without doing anything bcz your religion won't allow you too.

    I strongly advise you to reconsider your professional goals. One of the cons and most important aspect of medicine is dealing with death. How of a doctor are you going to be if you can only treat certain kind of patients. You want to enter a profession where everything is possible and you have to adapt to it. I suggest that you do a loy of soul searching figure what you want and how committed will you be to it. Religion is good but when it passes the limits of logic and commonsense becomes ridiculous. Good luck.

    ------------------
    siul
     
  9. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    This time i have to agree with Silurc
     
  10. DrSRBS

    DrSRBS Member

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    Let's not forget that some programs use prosected cadavers. In essence, students will manipulate sections encased in plastic, or observe preparations on a gurney that have been dissected by a professor. I imagine this would be a situation in which you could take medical school anatomy and not touch the cadaver.

    Of course, I am just entering this fall and have yet to see how it all works out. I would be interested in hearing of anyone else's accounts of it. (I am entering at MSUCOM.)
     
  11. siulrc

    siulrc Member

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    People are still missing the point.

    ------------------
    siul
     
  12. wheatfarmer

    wheatfarmer Senior Member

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    The best way to learn anatomy is to "Get in there". Everything else is second rate.
     
  13. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    As Silurc stated "people you be missing da pernt"...this isn't about anatomy...its about practicing medicine...If you cant touch a dead human, then you are into such an ethical gray area regarding CPR and near death and resusitation events, that I question whether you can practice medicine (or at least attend your clinical/internship training)....So, where do you go from there, do you walk out of a code early because the patient ain't breathing so you can't revive them without touching a corpse? If you argue that its not technically a corpse until pronounce, now you are not only playing semantic games with your supposed creator, but you also are going to feel a crap load of guilt for the many patients you never successfully resucitate. Like it or not it happens a lot, especially at night in the unit. There are a lot of people who shy away from touching cadavers for a variety of nonsensical reasons, but here is an individual shying away for a legitimate reasons but it brings up the question of whether they will be able to legitimately provide medical services...this is intriguing.
     
  14. siulrc

    siulrc Member

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    Adrian:
    Totally agree with you! I think Alex should rethink his goals. If he or she still feels that medicine is the way to go then he or she have to accept everything that comes with it.

    Keep posting.

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    siul
     
  15. doctor_sig

    doctor_sig Member

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    I can only touch bodies of patients whose lives I am trying to save.

    Seems fairly clear to me you can touch someone in arrest, if this statement is accurate. Or someone in need of debridement, amputation due to gangrene, or tissue biopsied for lab analysis. All these actions would fall under the "lives you're trying to save." So the issue at hand is anatomy class. What if you wear gloves during the dissection? You wouldn't be toucing the dead tissue yourself. If that's not allowed, I fail to see how you could participate in a dissection. The nature of sin seems (to me) to include your presence while a sin is being committed. If I stand by while a murder takes place without trying to prevent it, under the law I'm just as culpable as if I'd pulled the trigger. So, that leaves you in a bit of a quandry. My best suggestion would be to contact a physician of your religion and ask him/her what they did in your situation. Then ask yourself if he/she is a good physician. That might help in your decision. If not, good luck.

    ------------------
    Dr. Sig
    *disclaimer* All opinions are worth
    what you paid for them.
     
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  17. Hskermdic

    Hskermdic Senior Member

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    So what if you get through anatomy then what are you going to do about not touching dead people. Don't forget about the role of a doctor in pronouncing people dead. this is not part of trying to save someone's life but is a necessary action of doctors.

    Pronouncing death includes among other things, touching the patient to check for responsiveness, checking a pulse and respirations.

    As for Alex, I would find someone of your own religion who has become a doctor and ask them how they have managed the demands of becoming a physician with their own religious beliefs.


    ------------------
    Carrie
    KCOM '03
     
  18. Liquid_Tension

    Liquid_Tension Senior Member

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    I am not missing the point! As far as I am concerned, the point is that this is just ANOTHER example of the stupidity and idiocy of religion. Why people believe on all of the religious hogwash, and read the bible like it actually is the truth is beyond me! I think the bible proves that back when it was written, there was a good supply of drugs like LSD, cocaine, marijuana, and exotic mushrooms, because it is obvious that the authors of this fairy tale were high as kites in the clear blue sky when they wrote it! :)
    -Your most rational Liquid
     
  19. dlbruch

    dlbruch Senior Member

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    Liquid-
    You are certainly entitled to you opinion, but your comments are demeaning and offensive. It is understandable that you may not agree with what I believe, but is it necessary to insult me and the foundation of my belief?
     

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