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And the survey says:
Started by mazya
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R
reddog
Are you sure you want to open this can of worms? I can assure you that you will not get a definative answer from any of us. What you should do is determine the criteria that YOU think makes a good school. Then do your research. Then come to your own conclusions. If you would like some students at the selected schools to give you their take on the school that they attend, i.e. " do you like your experience so far at UHS, DMU, LECOM etc." you're more likely to get a responce.
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Here's my ranking: NSUCOM is ranked number 1 with a six-way tie for second place for MSU, UHS, WesternU, Arizona, TUCOM, and TCOM. Of course I'm extremely biased.
Opinions are like rectal orifice, most all of us have them...
I feel KCOM is #1...but you know what, everyone who grads from any of them and passes all their boards will be called Dr. as well. And none of it, not the school, the residency, the name or who your parents are will make you a great Doc. It is what dwells inside you...the other stuff just serves to whone the edge.
food for thought...
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'Old Man Dave'
KCOM, Class of '03
I feel KCOM is #1...but you know what, everyone who grads from any of them and passes all their boards will be called Dr. as well. And none of it, not the school, the residency, the name or who your parents are will make you a great Doc. It is what dwells inside you...the other stuff just serves to whone the edge.
food for thought...
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'Old Man Dave'
KCOM, Class of '03
How can any of you rank schools that don't even have there own clinical training sites????????
And while we're on the topic, I think the spelling ability of the participants in this website is atrocious! I've never seen such werse spellerz!
R
reddog
See what I mean about the CAN OF WORMS?
C'mon reddog, you should know better: it's "werms"!
L
Lynch
You might consider checking out US news and world reports ranking. I think 3 DO schools are ranked for primary care training. I have been predominately in the allopathic world and most MDs have not heard of most of the DO schools. I would consider a public university based school since tuition is usually less and there are more opportunities for research and advanced degrees.
L
Lynch
4 DO schools are ranked in the top 50 for best medical schools for primary care. If you are considering going into this area go to one of these schools.
West Virginia
Michigan state
Nova Southeastern
New England
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/gradrank/mdp/gdmdpt1.htm
West Virginia
Michigan state
Nova Southeastern
New England
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/beyond/gradrank/mdp/gdmdpt1.htm
I am a second year student at WVSOM. Of the Osteopathic shools that made the top 50 list we were the highest ranked. I can say from personal experence that the school is wonderful, our students are more than ready for the boards, and our training sites are great!
As far as being prepared for the boards goes...
At my UMDNJ-SOM interview, they boasted 100% pass rate on Step 1 AND Step 2 of USMLE. At first this seemed really impressive, but is it too good to be true? I'm thinking this may be one of those statistics that's contrived somehow. For example, are they talking about everyone who took it that year or by the time they graduate? Obviously a school which requires you to pass Steps 1 and 2 before you graduate is going to have 100% pass rates AMONG GRADUATES. However, the subject pool was not described. I'm just thinking that this statistic is pretty amazing, and sounds kind of fishy.
But, then again, the school was amazing and all the students seemed smart enough so maybe it's all legit. Any insights?
-RDO
At my UMDNJ-SOM interview, they boasted 100% pass rate on Step 1 AND Step 2 of USMLE. At first this seemed really impressive, but is it too good to be true? I'm thinking this may be one of those statistics that's contrived somehow. For example, are they talking about everyone who took it that year or by the time they graduate? Obviously a school which requires you to pass Steps 1 and 2 before you graduate is going to have 100% pass rates AMONG GRADUATES. However, the subject pool was not described. I'm just thinking that this statistic is pretty amazing, and sounds kind of fishy.
But, then again, the school was amazing and all the students seemed smart enough so maybe it's all legit. Any insights?
-RDO
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I agree with Old Man Dave. It is a personal decision and one school will never please everyone reguardless of its rank. Take a look at some of the remarks on interviewfeedback.com. There you will see that even Harvard Medical school does not impress all students who interview with them. Look at each schools program, location and cost etc...decide for yourself where you will be happy. Good Luck!!!
prefontaine
Senior Member
RDO, the USMLE is optional for UMDNJ DO students, as is the reporting of the scores to the school. The school has no way of knowing (with certainty) the USMLE pass rate for their students. It is my understanding that the actual % of UMD DO students that sit for the USMLE is very low.
Conversely, the COMLEX is required and scores are reported to the school.
Conversely, the COMLEX is required and scores are reported to the school.
The Comlex parts I and II are required for Graduation at WVSOM. However, our pass rate is not reported by how many of the Graduates passed, but by how many of the students who took it passed. Last year out of 65 students who took part I only one failed.
Okay, I don't want to sound like a complete idiot but the COMLEX is for DO students like the USMLE is for MD students, is this correct?
If so, why would any DO students take the USMLE anyway? Could it be so that they qualify for MD internships and residencies?
Also, if I'm right about the analogy for the COMLEX and the USMLE, why do they have two different boards for the two different types of doctors? I assume the COMLEX must be extremely similar to the USMLE, but probably has OMM questions or something.
If I'm way off in my concept of what the COMLEX is, please be kind! All I've ever learned about it is from other people's discussions which I wasn't paying much attention to because I was still just trying to get in somewhere. Thanks.
-RDO
If so, why would any DO students take the USMLE anyway? Could it be so that they qualify for MD internships and residencies?
Also, if I'm right about the analogy for the COMLEX and the USMLE, why do they have two different boards for the two different types of doctors? I assume the COMLEX must be extremely similar to the USMLE, but probably has OMM questions or something.
If I'm way off in my concept of what the COMLEX is, please be kind! All I've ever learned about it is from other people's discussions which I wasn't paying much attention to because I was still just trying to get in somewhere. Thanks.
-RDO
yes, they are similar exams with the exception of OMM. Not only is there an OMM written part, but also a practicle. The reason that DO stundents take the USMLE is not for residency and internship...we are eligable for the same positions as MD students...we recieve the exact same training with the added benifit of knowing manipulation. The reason that some student take it is to be liscensed by the AMA as well as the AOA.
As for the exam...in looking at the board reviews that are out there, if you can pass one you can pass the other (excluding OMM, of course).
As for the exam...in looking at the board reviews that are out there, if you can pass one you can pass the other (excluding OMM, of course).
Not exactly.
Here is how it works. COMLEX is a two day pencil and paper exam. It is comprised of fourteen hours of testing and two one hour "lunch" breaks. It is given twice a year. There is an "OMM" section. It is significantly "clinicaly" oriented.
USMLE used to be a two day pencil and paper exam. Now it is a one day (seven hours plus lunch) computer given exam (no more #2 pencils). It is also "clinicaly" oriented. There is no OMM section. There is some biostatistics material however that is not part of COMLEX.
Some other differences between the two that I have heard: 1) USMLE is more homogenous from year to year-while COMLEX seems to have "hot" topics that vary from year to year (ie. last years had lots of diabetes type clinical vignette's while it nearly ignored other areas.) 2) USMLE makes more extensive use of pictures/slides/histopathology type stuff (COMLEX has this but not as much typically). USMLE is given on a whole range of dates over several months. There is considerable flexibility concerning when you can take it. You can reschedule your exam the morning you are supposed to take it if you "feel sick," etc.
Something that is key to understand is that these are LICENSING EXAMS. The AOA and the AMA do NOT LICENSE PHYSICIANS. Individual states do. Taking all three steps of USMLE will give you the exact same piece of paper that taking all three steps of COMLEX will. They achieve the same goal: a medical license in the state where you took the third step of USMLE/COMLEX.
Now here is where the confusion enters. The first steps of both of these exams are used by many if not all residency programs to screen applicants. This is not the intended use of these exams and there is a good bit of talk about making USMLE a Pass/Fail only licensing exam (contact NBME-the people who give USMLE about this if you are interested-they have a website somewhere). Highly competive fields will not consider applicants if they do not score above a certain level on step one (of either USMLE or COMLEX). For other residency fields, it is more important that you passed comfortably, rather than getting above a specific cut-off.
Why would you elect to take USMLE as a DO student? couple of reasons:
1)you want to practice in Louisiana-LA only accepts USMLE so if you want to practice there you must talke all three steps of USMLE.
2)you want to do a very competitive specialty (ie orthopaedics) at a very competitive instituition (ie you pick a name). In situations where there is intense competition DMEs are likely to want to make very close comparisions between applicants statistics-the board step one scores are such a category. If you are up against 500 people with USMLE scores and you come with only COMLEX it makes a direct comparision between you and the other applicants more difficult (analogy: usmle as metric system with centimeters and comlex as english system with inches-harder to make a direct comparison).
3)you think that USMLE is a better written test and more "fair" (ie less variation in content from year to year). (Some people hold this opinion, but is certainly not fact!)
Those are pretty much the only reasons. Allopathic programs know how to read comlex and interpret the scores. Lots of people land allopathic residencies every year without having taken usmle.
One more comment. as a DO you are required to take steps one and two of comlex to graduate. all you need to do to get licensed then is take step three of comlex. This is total of three exams. If you take USMLE step one for considerations discussed above, there is no need to follow that up with USMLE two and three (unless you want to live in Louisiana).
Others will have slightly varying opinions on this issue, but this is the basic gist of it.
Here is how it works. COMLEX is a two day pencil and paper exam. It is comprised of fourteen hours of testing and two one hour "lunch" breaks. It is given twice a year. There is an "OMM" section. It is significantly "clinicaly" oriented.
USMLE used to be a two day pencil and paper exam. Now it is a one day (seven hours plus lunch) computer given exam (no more #2 pencils). It is also "clinicaly" oriented. There is no OMM section. There is some biostatistics material however that is not part of COMLEX.
Some other differences between the two that I have heard: 1) USMLE is more homogenous from year to year-while COMLEX seems to have "hot" topics that vary from year to year (ie. last years had lots of diabetes type clinical vignette's while it nearly ignored other areas.) 2) USMLE makes more extensive use of pictures/slides/histopathology type stuff (COMLEX has this but not as much typically). USMLE is given on a whole range of dates over several months. There is considerable flexibility concerning when you can take it. You can reschedule your exam the morning you are supposed to take it if you "feel sick," etc.
Something that is key to understand is that these are LICENSING EXAMS. The AOA and the AMA do NOT LICENSE PHYSICIANS. Individual states do. Taking all three steps of USMLE will give you the exact same piece of paper that taking all three steps of COMLEX will. They achieve the same goal: a medical license in the state where you took the third step of USMLE/COMLEX.
Now here is where the confusion enters. The first steps of both of these exams are used by many if not all residency programs to screen applicants. This is not the intended use of these exams and there is a good bit of talk about making USMLE a Pass/Fail only licensing exam (contact NBME-the people who give USMLE about this if you are interested-they have a website somewhere). Highly competive fields will not consider applicants if they do not score above a certain level on step one (of either USMLE or COMLEX). For other residency fields, it is more important that you passed comfortably, rather than getting above a specific cut-off.
Why would you elect to take USMLE as a DO student? couple of reasons:
1)you want to practice in Louisiana-LA only accepts USMLE so if you want to practice there you must talke all three steps of USMLE.
2)you want to do a very competitive specialty (ie orthopaedics) at a very competitive instituition (ie you pick a name). In situations where there is intense competition DMEs are likely to want to make very close comparisions between applicants statistics-the board step one scores are such a category. If you are up against 500 people with USMLE scores and you come with only COMLEX it makes a direct comparision between you and the other applicants more difficult (analogy: usmle as metric system with centimeters and comlex as english system with inches-harder to make a direct comparison).
3)you think that USMLE is a better written test and more "fair" (ie less variation in content from year to year). (Some people hold this opinion, but is certainly not fact!)
Those are pretty much the only reasons. Allopathic programs know how to read comlex and interpret the scores. Lots of people land allopathic residencies every year without having taken usmle.
One more comment. as a DO you are required to take steps one and two of comlex to graduate. all you need to do to get licensed then is take step three of comlex. This is total of three exams. If you take USMLE step one for considerations discussed above, there is no need to follow that up with USMLE two and three (unless you want to live in Louisiana).
Others will have slightly varying opinions on this issue, but this is the basic gist of it.
Thanks everybody. Your posts are very enlightening. Now I realize that it's going to be another cycle of 4 years of school with some big, life-path-determining exam (or 2 or 3) that will you get you where you want to be at the next stage (like HS and College). Oh well, I think I'm up for it. Fortunately, I haven't taken the MCAT more than once (nor do I expect to) so I'm not too burnt out right now.
So, how do people usually study for either test? I know there are courses, but I don't know anything about them. Also, are there those weird options of not reporting your scores, retaking the exam, etc. that there are with the SAT and MCAT? And, I thought it was a pass/fail exam. Schools just talk about their pass rates, not their average scores. So is it not good enough "just to pass"? Is family med. considered to be one of those residencies you would necessarily take the usmle for?
An answer to any of these questions would be appreciated. I know it's a little annoying, but once I start writing Q's, I just get on a roll.
By the way, prefontaine just said that not many people from UMDNJ-SOM sit for the usmle, not that few of them that take it pass, although this may be true anyway.
Finally, if anyone has any dirt (good or bad) about UMDNJ-SOM, I'd love to hear it. Especially how it compares to other osteo schools. Thanks everyone.
-RDO
So, how do people usually study for either test? I know there are courses, but I don't know anything about them. Also, are there those weird options of not reporting your scores, retaking the exam, etc. that there are with the SAT and MCAT? And, I thought it was a pass/fail exam. Schools just talk about their pass rates, not their average scores. So is it not good enough "just to pass"? Is family med. considered to be one of those residencies you would necessarily take the usmle for?
An answer to any of these questions would be appreciated. I know it's a little annoying, but once I start writing Q's, I just get on a roll.
By the way, prefontaine just said that not many people from UMDNJ-SOM sit for the usmle, not that few of them that take it pass, although this may be true anyway.
Finally, if anyone has any dirt (good or bad) about UMDNJ-SOM, I'd love to hear it. Especially how it compares to other osteo schools. Thanks everyone.
-RDO
