Anesth. future outlook?

[Taurus]

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I think I now know how to get anesthesiologists in a tizzy. They ignore the economic arguments on what is the best delivery model and instead focus on title.

 

[jwk]

Hey, I like that.

Lets fight fire with fire concerning the MDA thing (yeah, I'm not a big fan of it either), and think like a militant AANA member.

Step one in nursing administration: Have a mandatory/urgent (read:useless) meeting.

Step two: Make sure said-meeting lasts at least 90 minutes in order to justify one's importance/existence, even though info in said meeting could've been emailed in two paragraphs to individuals and read by said individuals in 32 seconds, hence saving everyone from going to a 90 minute meeting.

Step three: Provide sign-in sheet with a paper-width wider than the typical 8 and a half inches of a normal 8.5-by-11" piece of paper, since, of course, nurse administrators are required by law to list every degree achieved past-age-three....for example,

Nancy Nierce, BK, BES, BJHS, HSG, AA, BSN, RN, TPIRFA.


BK= Bachelor of Kindergarten

BES= Bachelor of Elementary School

BJHS= Bachelor of Junior High School

HSG= High School Graduate

AA= Associate of Arts

BSN= Bachelor of Science in Nursing

RN= Registered Nurse

TPIRFA= This Practice Is Really Fuk k ing Annoying


Step Four: Schedule a followup meeting, and a followup meeting to the followup meeting. Have a meeting to determine what time the followup meeting will occur, and meet ten minutes before the followup meeting with "essential teammembers" to ensure the followup meeting addresses salient objectives of the initial, primary meeting.

Now, progress really takes a step forward with

Step Five: At the followup meeting, vote to hire a nurse-administrator-consultant to visit our hospital and make recommendations at a followup meeting to the followup meeting, concerning the utilization of the term MDA.
Ask the consultant at the followup meeting to the followup meeting to spend 2 months reviewing records and interviewing employees at scheduled meetings with said employees about the utilization of the term MDA.

Step Six: Have nurse consultant write an evaluation of the situation. Make sure to make it at least ten pages long, and make sure to not email it to important individuals. Instead, schedule a meeting for presentation of nurse-consultants evaluation.

Step seven: Write a protocol based on nurse consultants evaluation concerning The Verbal Utilization of the term MDA , even though nurse-consultant knows nothing about this specific situation, lives in another state, and has been in "the evaluated" hospital less than three weeks.

Jet, as always you just slay me.

Several years ago, I was the anesthesia representative to a nursing "Task Force" to write a policy, get this, on what do do if a patient needs to bypass the PACU and go straight to ICU. After the two-hour organizational meeting to determine the shape of the table and other important logistical issues (and of course the madatory touchy-feely "let's all respect each other's opinion even if we don't agree with it" statement), I came to the 2nd meeting, handed out a policy that I had written. After staring at it about 10 minutes, they decided it was pretty good, despite the fact that 200 hours of debate and meeting time had not been utilized. Except for putting it in proper "nursing policy format", it was adopted as-is. I never did get my thank-you from the hospital administrator for saving them 200 hours of valuable clipboard nursing time.

 

[Amik25]

Let me start by saying that I am a student nurse anesthetist and I enjoy reading this board for the clinical discussions (don't know enough yet to contribute). I am not trying to start an argument but I just wanted to address an issue regarding the DNP (doctorate of nursing practice). The statements that are quoted on here are from the AACN, which is the Associate of Colleges of Nursing or something like that and is made up of deans from schools of nursing. They are basically trying to bully all advanced practice nursing programs into requiring the DNP. The AANA does not in any way support this position. They have put out a statement that says they should be able to decide if CRNAs need a doctorate degree, not the AACN. The AANA recognizes the difficulties presented by requiring a DNP, not to mention the political issues involved and are trying to come up with a solution. However, some schools of nursing are already developing these programs and are basically telling the anesthesia programs they have to fall in line because they are in the college of nursing. I know the AANA and ASA have many political differences, but I just wanted to say that the DNP is NOT something the AANA cooked up or even really supports up to this point.

Ami

 

[lvspro]

4 CRNA's to 1 MDA. I don't think so. I live in a rural community of roughly 10,000. The closest MDA is 50 miles away. In other words, not all CRNA's need to work under a Dr. It varies according to state and probably to the hospital census.

As I mentioned before, the ratio varies from place to place. Less desirable areas may have a 1:? not for economic purposes, but because of the need for anesthesia care in underserved commnities. They may not even have Anesthesiologists, and any complications fall squarely on the shoulders of the surgeon. Either way, nobody ever said that a different ratio was illegal, it's just a little more risky.

 

[stephend7799]

Let me start by saying that I am a student nurse anesthetist and I enjoy reading this board for the clinical discussions (don't know enough yet to contribute). I am not trying to start an argument but I just wanted to address an issue regarding the DNP (doctorate of nursing practice). The statements that are quoted on here are from the AACN, which is the Associate of Colleges of Nursing or something like that and is made up of deans from schools of nursing. They are basically trying to bully all advanced practice nursing programs into requiring the DNP. The AANA does not in any way support this position. They have put out a statement that says they should be able to decide if CRNAs need a doctorate degree, not the AACN. The AANA recognizes the difficulties presented by requiring a DNP, not to mention the political issues involved and are trying to come up with a solution. However, some schools of nursing are already developing these programs and are basically telling the anesthesia programs they have to fall in line because they are in the college of nursing. I know the AANA and ASA have many political differences, but I just wanted to say that the DNP is NOT something the AANA cooked up or even really supports up to this point.

Ami

get lost.. go explain that over at the nursing board.. dont come here because nobody here cares.. If you wanna be captain go to captain school.. There is no substitute, period

 

[DrDre']

Stephen,I think Amik was trying to explain how many NPs AND less political administrators do NOT want to be DNPs. I know many NPs personally and they think all this is stupid. Just becuz someone is a CRNA does not mean you have to bully them immediately.

If I misunderstand either of you, sorry.

 

[stephend7799]

she can go over to the nursing board and discuss how stupid the nurse doctor idea is.. geez

 

[Amik25]

Stephen,I think Amik was trying to explain how many NPs AND less political administrators do NOT want to be DNPs. I know many NPs personally and they think all this is stupid. Just becuz someone is a CRNA does not mean you have to bully them immediately.

If I misunderstand either of you, sorry.

Thank you...that is exactly what I was trying to say. I never once said a single thing in my post about "being the captain," nor did I say anything derogatory about anesthesiologists. I work with CRNAs and anesthesiologists daily and we all have a great relationship. I learn from and work with both providers. I did not post here to start another lame argument...I simply wanted you guys to know that the DNP is really more about the deans of nursing schools pushing their agenda (who do you think makes money from advanced practice nursing education being increased?).

 

[UTSouthwestern]

get lost.. go explain that over at the nursing board.. dont come here because nobody here cares.. If you wanna be captain go to captain school.. There is no substitute, period

Uncalled for. He was trying to explain a counterpoint and didn't deserve that.

 

[stephend7799]

Thank you...that is exactly what I was trying to say. I never once said a single thing in my post about "being the captain," nor did I say anything derogatory about anesthesiologists. I work with CRNAs and anesthesiologists daily and we all have a great relationship. I learn from and work with both providers. I did not post here to start another lame argument...I simply wanted you guys to know that the DNP is really more about the deans of nursing schools pushing their agenda (who do you think makes money from advanced practice nursing education being increased?).

listen... I dont care about any deans of any nursing school.. I repeat bring that up in the nursing forum. get lost.. and i dont care if you are a srna crna..or a doctor of nursing.. youare still a friggin nurse.. nomatter what you do.. you need to be put in your place immediately

 

[Monty Python]

listen... I dont care about any deans of any nursing school.. I repeat bring that up in the nursing forum. get lost.. and i dont care if you are a srna crna..or a doctor of nursing.. youare still a friggin nurse.. nomatter what you do.. you need to be put in your place immediately

Unless you go to work on an otherwise-deserted island, you will most probably find yourself working in a hospital setting with other physicians, nurses, pharmacists, housekeepers, office people etc etc.

A big part of a productive, smooth, and enjoyable working environment is getting along with superiors, peers, and subordinates, despite personal opinions and differences in qualifications/job description. The attitude expressed above is a sure-fire way to get "the system" to rapidly become your worst enemy, ultimately making YOU miserable in the process.

With all due respect, the above attitude won't go far in the real world.

 

[militarymd]

Unless you go to work on an otherwise-deserted island, you will most probably find yourself working in a hospital setting with other physicians, nurses, pharmacists, housekeepers, office people etc etc.

A big part of a productive, smooth, and enjoyable working environment is getting along with superiors, peers, and subordinates, despite personal opinions and differences in qualifications/job description. The attitude expressed above is a sure-fire way to get "the system" to rapidly become your worst enemy, ultimately making YOU miserable in the process.

With all due respect, the above attitude won't go far in the real world.

I concur

 

[BIS]

We all know that education and training does nothing to increase maturity. Some people are immature no matter how smart they are.

 

[blocks]

Poor form 👎

listen... I dont care about any deans of any nursing school.. I repeat bring that up in the nursing forum. get lost.. and i dont care if you are a srna crna..or a doctor of nursing.. youare still a friggin nurse.. nomatter what you do.. you need to be put in your place immediately

 

[OldManDave]

I will be very brief & to the point. I am serving notice to all, and I do mean ALL, participants in mudslinging matches here in the anesthesiology forums. While there are many here who wish to legitimately discuss & even debate CRNA/physician anesthesiologist issue, there are a few immature, hot-headed folks who consistently strive to muck it up. This $hit will no longer be tolerated. The Admin & Moderation crew have grown weary of seeing our mode of communication tarnished by a few turds...it ends now.

This is a forum for physicians. SRNAs & CRNAs are welcome to participate as long as they do not provoke, harrass or otherwise incite chaos. Physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s, I expect the same code of conduct. If you expect to be respected, YOU MUST EARN IT. That means if someone calls you a prick - report it to the moderation crew, deal with it off line or suck it up...DO NOT DEGRADE THESE FORUMS INTO YOUR PERSONAL PLAYGROUND, I AM A BULLY BULL$HIT!

Specifically referring to this thread - the pissing, moaning & bickering stop now. Any more of this arguing crap and I close the thread & go down the list issuing TOS violations. 3x TOSs & your account will be suspended for an indeterminate period...possibly even yielding a lifetime ban tangent upon how big of an @$$ you made of yourself. Single eggregious attacks can go straight to suspension or banning.

The moderation crew has commited itself to cleaning up this forum. Previous SDN policies precluded aggressive intervention. That has changed & we, the moderators, have been given the authority & a mandate to clean this place up & protect/restore the integrity of the forum.

Questions? You are welcome to e-mail me. Let me flatly state, I will not automatically decide in favor of physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s - if you are at fault, you will be penalized.

 

[Monty Python]

........ The Admin & Moderation crew have grown weary of seeing our mode of communication tarnished by a few turds...it ends now.

This is a forum for physicians. SRNAs & CRNAs are welcome to participate as long as they do not provoke, harrass or otherwise incite chaos. Physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s, I expect the same ...... if you are at fault, you will be penalized...........

Today's remaining weather: clear and sunny, with a welcomed and refreshing breeze. A nice front has come through, moving out the stalled line of thunderstorms and rain.

Tomorrow's forecast: pleasant and enjoyable.

👍

 

[BIS]

I will be very brief & to the point. I am serving notice to all, and I do mean ALL, participants in mudslinging matches here in the anesthesiology forums. While there are many here who wish to legitimately discuss & even debate CRNA/physician anesthesiologist issue, there are a few immature, hot-headed folks who consistently strive to muck it up. This $hit will no longer be tolerated. The Admin & Moderation crew have grown weary of seeing our mode of communication tarnished by a few turds...it ends now.

This is a forum for physicians. SRNAs & CRNAs are welcome to participate as long as they do not provoke, harrass or otherwise incite chaos. Physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s, I expect the same code of conduct. If you expect to be respected, YOU MUST EARN IT. That means if someone calls you a prick - report it to the moderation crew, deal with it off line or suck it up...DO NOT DEGRADE THESE FORUMS INTO YOUR PERSONAL PLAYGROUND, I AM A BULLY BULL$HIT!

Specifically referring to this thread - the pissing, moaning & bickering stop now. Any more of this arguing crap and I close the thread & go down the list issuing TOS violations. 3x TOSs & your account will be suspended for an indeterminate period...possibly even yielding a lifetime ban tangent upon how big of an @$$ you made of yourself. Single eggregious attacks can go straight to suspension or banning.

The moderation crew has commited itself to cleaning up this forum. Previous SDN policies precluded aggressive intervention. That has changed & we, the moderators, have been given the authority & a mandate to clean this place up & protect/restore the integrity of the forum.

Questions? You are welcome to e-mail me. Let me flatly state, I will not automatically decide in favor of physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s - if you are at fault, you will be penalized.

Its great to have an open minded non biased Mod come around here every so often. Point understood. Debates can be very productive if peeps can keep their cool.

 

[Noyac]

I echo OMD's remarks. This is still a viable thread if the sensitivities are put aside. I welcome srna's and crna's and pharmacists and lay people and anyone that wants to post "USEFUL" information on this site.

If some of you guys don't think there are things to be learned from these non-physicians, you will be rudely awakened in the future. If you continue to have militant opinions and views towards crna's then you are no different then the crna's like nitecap.

My suggestion, should you choose to accept it, is to listen and learn from these posts. I don't mean that you will learn how to do anesthesia per se. You will learn how to deal with people, administrators, co-workers, etc. Among the many other things you will learn. I, for one, learned quite a lot from nitecap. Things that I don't think the AANA or nitecap would be to pleased about.

 

[VolatileAgent]

I will be very brief & to the point. I am serving notice to all, and I do mean ALL, participants in mudslinging matches here in the anesthesiology forums. While there are many here who wish to legitimately discuss & even debate CRNA/physician anesthesiologist issue, there are a few immature, hot-headed folks who consistently strive to muck it up. This $hit will no longer be tolerated. The Admin & Moderation crew have grown weary of seeing our mode of communication tarnished by a few turds...it ends now.

This is a forum for physicians. SRNAs & CRNAs are welcome to participate as long as they do not provoke, harrass or otherwise incite chaos. Physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s, I expect the same code of conduct. If you expect to be respected, YOU MUST EARN IT. That means if someone calls you a prick - report it to the moderation crew, deal with it off line or suck it up...DO NOT DEGRADE THESE FORUMS INTO YOUR PERSONAL PLAYGROUND, I AM A BULLY BULL$HIT!

Specifically referring to this thread - the pissing, moaning & bickering stop now. Any more of this arguing crap and I close the thread & go down the list issuing TOS violations. 3x TOSs & your account will be suspended for an indeterminate period...possibly even yielding a lifetime ban tangent upon how big of an @$$ you made of yourself. Single eggregious attacks can go straight to suspension or banning.

The moderation crew has commited itself to cleaning up this forum. Previous SDN policies precluded aggressive intervention. That has changed & we, the moderators, have been given the authority & a mandate to clean this place up & protect/restore the integrity of the forum.

Questions? You are welcome to e-mail me. Let me flatly state, I will not automatically decide in favor of physicians, physicians-to-be & physician-want-to-be-s - if you are at fault, you will be penalized.

this post, in and of itself, is a TOS violation.

 

[BIS]

Half the people here seem to be blowing smoke up their a$$ when they start trash talking. I seriously hope that posters dont act the way they do here in real life. In reality you have consequences, administrations, deans, dept heads to deal with. Here the crap can fly and anyone can pop off.

Best thing to remember is to not take anything personal.

 

[Noyac]

Half the people here seem to be blowing smoke up their a$$ when they start trash talking. I seriously hope that posters dont act the way they do here in real life. In reality you have consequences, administrations, deans, dept heads to deal with. Here the crap can fly and anyone can pop off.

Best thing to remember is to not take anything personal.

You got it, nitecap. I hope you take your own advice as well.

 

[lax]

where the real confusion is going to come is with the "Doctor of Nursing Practice" (DNP) degree. has everyone heard of this travesty yet? that's something to talk about...

What??? You can't be serious... [/QUOTE]


Yep, the advanced practice role such as NPs and CRNAs, as well as others, are going to be changed to a Doctor of Nursing Practice degree by 2015. This is in effect. Now the training for NPs and CRNAs are going to be 8+ years. There is actually nothing funny about this...do you think Doctor of Pharmacy and Doctor of Physical Therapy are funny. Not really...

 

[rn29306]

Hey Mil, you still got that dead horse pic?

 

[lax]

Trying to be a doctor without having to go through medical school. That's what it all boils down to. Confuse the public and hope no one notices the difference.

No, its not. Nurses go into Nursing to be a nurse. A doctor of Nursing Practice takes just as long as medical school (8 years). There is no decrease in time. It is not Medical School nor does it profess to be.

 

[lax]

What it boils down to is an attempt to get a piece of that pie by expanding scopes of practice without having to train extensively, then adding a pseudo-doctoral title upon completion of training to disguise the differences. It's bypassing medical school to call yourself a doctor.

When these pseudo-doctors emerge, how many will have Dr. John Smith, Family Medicine on their white coats? How will the public know who is a physician and who is a nurse? It's a farce and attempt to bypass comprehensive training to practice MEDICINE (not nursing). Diagnosing and making therapeutic decisions on whatever scale they want to try to expand into.

First off, the amount of time it will take to be a DNP will be 8 + years. Why would one want to bypass medical school? IT is the the same length of time. There will be extensive training. Also, let's not forget that nurses work at the bedside their entire education (in this case, will be 8 years). MDs do not come to the bedside until after 6 years of education. So that leaves 2 years of medical school and residency that might only amount to 1 year. Get over it. In both careers, the students are bright. Their title will read, Dr. John Smith, DNP vs Dr. John Smith, MD. Don't forget that the medical doctor is not the only profession that is called Dr.

 

[lax]

Every time I see MDA, I laugh at what my abbreviation will be as a DO.

🙂

 

[lax]

listen... I dont care about any deans of any nursing school.. I repeat bring that up in the nursing forum. get lost.. and i dont care if you are a srna crna..or a doctor of nursing.. youare still a friggin nurse.. nomatter what you do.. you need to be put in your place immediately

This is complete ignorance......There is no reason for her to be put in her place. As a matter of fact, the DNP is a good idea. The reason that it is a good idea is that it requires nurses to be better educated....it requires a doctoral degree not a masters to provide advanced nursing care. So you think doctor of Pharmacology (ie PharmD) is stupid? Just because it has doctor in the title doesn't mean it equals MD. So Lame!

 

[cloud9]

MDs do not come to the bedside until after 6 years of education. So that leaves 2 years of medical school and residency that might only amount to 1 year.

Residency for 1 year.
Those hirees will be at the top of the list I'm sure.

In both careers, the students are bright. Their title will read, Dr. John Smith, DNP vs Dr. John Smith, MD. Don't forget that the medical doctor is not the only profession that is called Dr.

The issue is whether this will cause confusion among the patients, not titles. As a student many patients called me "doctor" even after being corrected.

 

[OldManDave]

🙂

D W Kelley, DOA --> 😱

 

[cloud9]

First off, the amount of time it will take to be a DNP will be 8 + years. Why would one want to bypass medical school? IT is the the same length of time. There will be extensive training. Also, let's not forget that nurses work at the bedside their entire education (in this case, will be 8 years). MDs do not come to the bedside until after 6 years of education. So that leaves 2 years of medical school and residency that might only amount to 1 year. Get over it. In both careers, the students are bright. Their title will read, Dr. John Smith, DNP vs Dr. John Smith, MD. Don't forget that the medical doctor is not the only profession that is called Dr.

So if the aim is NOT to expand into areas that need physician expertise, then what is the goal? Why increase the training?

And if the title is so unimportant, why not just increase the length of the masters degree? More education would be acheived and that is the goal right?

Honestly, many of the nursing staff I've worked with are excellent at what they do, but many do things based entirely on the algorithm. The entire point of the two years of basic science in the medical curriculum is to give the background so as not to be a slave to the algorithm. Sometimes clinical judgement is needed. Reading the Duncan Hines box does not make you the Iron Chef.

I have yet to see any unambiguous reason to increase to a Doctorate. 8 years to hang a bag of K? Although it will be nice to walk into the room and not see the nasal cannula at 6L.

 

[stephend7799]

This is complete ignorance......There is no reason for her to be put in her place. As a matter of fact, the DNP is a good idea. The reason that it is a good idea is that it requires nurses to be better educated....it requires a doctoral degree not a masters to provide advanced nursing care. So you think doctor of Pharmacology (ie PharmD) is stupid? Just because it has doctor in the title doesn't mean it equals MD. So Lame!

the reason they are making it a doctorate is not becuase they want more education. its they want more money.. and they wanna be the nursing equivalent to an MD.. I say this again.. there is no substitute.. If youw anna be captain.. go to captain school.

 

[burntcrispy]

I was a nurse for 6 years before entering medical school. I typically try to refrain from posting in these kinds of threads but thought I would share a little of my nursing experience.

Nursing school bachelor's degree: You only learn very superficial material relating to medicine. About the same amount that you learn in a week or less of medicial school. Most of it is writing papers about meaningless crap.

Masters in Nursing: I had a a friend and girlfriend getting their NP- They learn very superficial material with the majority of time writing papers over meaningless crap. My friend dropped out because it was too much BS of writing the papers over caring or whatever the nurses find interesting at the time.

Doctorate in Nursing: When in nursing school I asked what was involved. Guess what, papers over meaningless crap. I never quite understood how one got a doctorate in nursing. Doctorate in biology you may find out a new genetic code or something, doctorate in chemistry you do research regarding the atomic structure of something or other. Doctorate in nursing, you find better ways of caring about people? What is it? In my experience the reson people got them was to be called Doctor. I can honestly say that I WILL NEVER EVER call ANY nurse Doctor. I just will not happen. Also, it will definately confuse the patients. I would sue the pants off of someone if they presented themselves as Dr. X and I later found out it was a midlevel. It should be considered a criminal offense.

As I said, I got the BSN and worked as a nurse for 6 years so I know something about this. Only after I was in medical school did I realize that I didn't know much of anything about medicine while being a nurse. The nurses, SRNA, NP, PA, etc can not understand what they do not know and also can not understand the medical education without actually attending medical school.

Now, why doesn't everyone just stop bickering about this crap. Its not going to change anything and will only make everyone more angry. Lets just agree there is room for everyone in medicine.

As far as nurses coming over here and starting or fueling arguments, please take it to a nursing forum somewhere else. This sight is called studentDOCTOR.

Thank you.

 

[SleepIsGood]

....

As far as nurses coming over here and starting or fueling arguments, please take it to a nursing forum somewhere else. This sight is called studentDOCTOR.

Thank you.

here here...it's called allnurses.com.

secondly, for all those non believer physicians and physician to bes that think these nurses are benign. I urge you all to please look at the posts by lax and nitecap aka BIS. Their guise for increased pay and autonomy is WE WANT TO IMPROVE PATIENT CARE.

please dont allow them to throw sand in your eyes 👍

 

[cfdavid]

Many of us that came from undergraduate schools that also had larger nursing programs have experience with the more "armchair" approach to the nursing science curriculum. It's just not the same. And when I hear CRNA's trashing on AA's (with hardcore undergrad science pre-prequisites, identical and surpassing thos basic pre-req's for med school), it cracks me up.

I've said before that I was originally enrolled in a medical microbiology course(the one required of the nurses, and whose class consisted, therefore, of majorily pre-nursing versus science and pre-med/dent students). At the time, I couldn't take the microbio required of the science majors. But, I quickly rearranged my schedule when I realized that the course was being taught in a very cursory fashion.

I wanted to learn the how and the why a particular antibiotic worked against a particular genus (or even strain)of microbe. And the only way to really understand that is to know some relatively in-depth prokaryotic biology as well as some respectable info pertaining to the structure of a cell wall. Why, specifically, does a particular stain take the way it does. Not just that it does, but WHY does something happen the way it does. I found that to be a critical difference. And I know that this particular experience is not unique in comparing pre-nursing to pre-med and science curricula.

Frankly, I respect the hell out of many nurses. We've all met some great nurses out there that work extremely hard and are very knowledgeable. But, I just don't think that a DNP could ever even compare to a medical degree (with residency etc.) WITH the basic pre-med background that we all start out with even prior to starting MS1.

 

[SleepIsGood]

Something to consider also folks.

I was actually talking to a peds attending who has been an attending for 15 years. BTW, I am in a different country right now. the doc from the city i'm at asked the american attending, what do you think about nurses, PAs etc. she gave her answer......

then i asked the attending what she thinks of DNPs. Get this...She did not know what a DNP was. I explained it to her and she was pist to say the least 😱 😱

moral of the story? I think us "younger" docs with the internet etc are more knowledgeable at times when it comes to SOME of the current events. some attendings are just inundated with having to keep up with current medical mgt that they do not have time to read about the politics governing our profession.

I think it's important that we share this new knowledge about things like DNPs to "older" attendings so they are aware of them. They are teh ones that have more political 'clout' at their hospitals, thus are able to create chnge.

FYI