Anesthesiologist linked to meningitis deaths...

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Bucknut

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*Only one of the two women died, so the title of the thread is inaccurate, but it seems that I can only edit the body of the thread and not the title...*

Bellefontaine hospital: Anesthesiologist likely meningitis source

June 19, 2009 - 8:23 AM

The Associated Press

BELLEFONTAINE - A hospital says tests point to an anesthesiologist as the likely source of bacterial meningitis that infected two pregnant women, killing one of them.

Mary Rutan Hospital in Bellefontaine says the doctor gave a spinal anesthesia to both women before they delivered their healthy babies May 21 and did not wear a face mask.

Both women became sick and one died May 23.

The hospital said Thursday it's common for physicians not to wear a mask during such procedures. But its statement also said federal testing determined the bacteria was a form found in saliva and may have been transmitted through breathing or speaking.

The anesthesiologist has not been identified but the hospital says he has stopped practicing there, for now.

Source:
http://www.limaohio.com/news/bellefontaine-38498-source-anesthesiologist.html

Here's also a link to an article 3 weeks earlier right after the incident before they knew the likely cause. It has more details surrounding their deaths:
http://www.limaohio.com/news/-37736--.html



A pretty shocking example of the importance of sterile technique, regardless of how inconvenient it can seem at times...

In case you're curious, Mary Rutan is a smaller community hospital about an hour Northwest of Columbus, Ohio.
 
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Interesting.

This seems multifactorial though. You cant say 100% that it was the anesthesiologist's fault. The article just specifies that it is a bacterial that is common in the mouth. I'm sure not just the anesthesiolgist was present in the OR (nurses, OB,etc). Apparently they do thousands of spinals in that particular hospital like this (according to the article).

Unless they can confirm the DNA of this particular strand of Bacteria X is the same as the Bacteria in the doc's mouth...the etiology could have been any body's.

NB...we all usually wear masks. Having said that, there are tons of case reports of the practioner's saliva causing menigitis or other infections. Thats why the orthopods usually wear those suits....now is it possible for us to all wear those space suits...likely not.

Nevertheless, this is a very unfortunate circumstance.
 
It would be like winning the lotto twice or getting hit by lightning twice if that guy actually caused meningitis in 2 patients only by not wearing a mask!
A few years ago no one wore a mask and almost no one got meningitis!
If 2 patients get meningitis in a hospital following a spinal I would look at other things like contaminated needles, contaminated medications and also other sources of infection in the pregnant women (Streptococci grow in other places like the vagina and the infected amniotic fluid...).
I feel bad for the guy who is going to be crucified based on speculations.
 
It would be like winning the lotto twice or getting hit by lightning twice if that guy actually caused meningitis in 2 patients only by not wearing a mask!
A few years ago no one wore a mask and almost no one got meningitis!
If 2 patients get meningitis in a hospital following a spinal I would look at other things like contaminated needles, contaminated medications and also other sources of infection in the pregnant women (Streptococci grow in other places like the vagina and the infected amniotic fluid...).
I feel bad for the guy who is going to be crucified based on speculations.

He should have been wearing a mask.

I believe it was the ASRA that put out the statement regarding masks and epidurals/spinals.

Had he been wearing a mask, would he still be as guilty? He will have a difficult time defending himself now.
 
He should have been wearing a mask.

I believe it was the ASRA that put out the statement regarding masks and epidurals/spinals.

Had he been wearing a mask, would he still be as guilty? He will have a difficult time defending himself now.

Agree!
He should have been wearing a mask because that's what the guidelines are, but does that mean that we really know that not wearing a mask actually caused these problems?
Could it be that these 2 women had strep bacteremia during labor from vaginal origin? And that accusing the anesthesiologist was just the easy way out for the hospital to blame someone who is not a hospital employee for the complication?
 
Agree!
He should have been wearing a mask because that's what the guidelines are, but does that mean that we really know that not wearing a mask actually caused these problems?
Could it be that these 2 women had strep bacteremia during labor from vaginal origin? And that accusing the anesthesiologist was just the easy way out for the hospital to blame someone who is not a hospital employee for the complication?


I hope you are not trying to defend the action and make excuses, the fact is that DNA of the strains from oral swabs taken from him were identical to the strains found in the women.
 
I hope you are not trying to defend the action and make excuses, the fact is that DNA from oral swabs taken from him were identical to the strains found in the women.

I am not defending anyone or making excuses!
But did they do cultures from the patients vaginal area and checked the DNA??
What I am saying is that we should not rush to incriminate physicians based on assumptions that could be wrong.
 
I am not defending anyone or making excuses!
But did they do cultures from the patients vaginal area and checked the DNA??
What I am saying is that we should not rush to incriminate physicians based on assumptions that could be wrong.

You do realize the type was Streptococcus salivarius and strains were genetically identical?
 
No, I did not read that anywhere, where did you get that info from??


Test results from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicate an anesthesiologist who gave spinal procedures to two Mary Rutan Hospital maternity patients on May 21 had bacteria in his nose and mouth that comes from the same biological group as the bacteria which led to meningitis in both women.
But Dr. Grant Varian, medical director for the hospital, cautioned a definitive link has not been determined thus far.
“This may be as far as we get,” he said Thursday after the CDC report. “I understand work continues, but they have not given us a timetable on how long it will take.”
MRH is not identifying the anesthesiologist, but he has voluntarily stepped aside while the investigation continues.
There are three primary care anesthesiologists with privileges at the hospital and several part time.
Hospital President and Chief Executive Officer Mandy Goble said the anesthesiologist is distraught over the infection which led to the death of Susan Ryan Finch Simpson, DPT, 30.
Mrs. Simpson and the other mother, who has not been identified, gave birth to healthy girls on May 21.
Both mothers became seriously ill overnight, and when maternity staff determined the women were not simply suffering from aftereffects of the anesthesia, they were transferred to MRH’s intensive care unit and then transferred to Riverside Methodist Hospital.
Scientific tests have identified the bacteria — streptococcus salivarius. It is common and found in the mouth and respiratory tract. People with the bacteria do not necessarily exhibit any symptoms of illness.
Further testing shows the bacteria in both women had identical DNA.
Dr. Varian said the CDC is using the latest biochemical processes to investigate the source of the infection.
These findings confirm the probability that the anesthesiologist transmitted the bacteria to the two patients, according to the hospital, as he was the only individual common to both women during the bedside anesthesia procedures.
In addition, it is probable that the transmission of the bacteria occurred in the course of normal respiratory activity such as breathing and speaking.
Investigators reported that nothing unusual, such as coughing or sneezing, occurred during the administration of the spinal anesthesia.
Prior to their deliveries, each woman, in separate rooms, received a bedside intrathecal injection, a spinal anesthesia given to women in active labor.
The anesthesiologist conducting the procedure did not wear a mask, a historically normal practice for anesthesiologists across the country.
Mrs. Goble said similar infection incidents related to spinal procedures are so rare, there are few studies of the events.
“In the ones we were able to find, the infection rate was one in every 42,000 patients and 1 in every 10,000 patients in the other,” Mrs. Goble said.
Even so, the hospital has adopted a policy that anesthesiologists and any assistant within two arms lengths will have to wear surgical masks.
Also, MRH has suspended intrathecal injections indefinitely until further review.
CDC also did not find streptococcus salivarius bacteria in the medications, ruling out those as sources of the infection.
Thus far, the CDC and state health officials have found nothing systemically wrong at the hospital.
An Ohio Department of Health inspection of the maternity ward resulted in three findings, one of which involved the lack of a surgical mask.
The other findings noted there were outdated medicine, lubricating gels, tubes and needles in the facility’s supplies and insufficient monitoring of patient respiratory rates after spinal anesthesia.
MRH has removed all outdated supplies and instituted new guidelines for inspecting supplies.
It also has revised its existing monitoring policies.
 
No, I did not read that anywhere, where did you get that info from??

I agree with Plank here that implicating physicians who havent been fully credited with an adverse event may not be optimal.

The only evidence they have here is that he was the only person common to both patients. What about the nurses or other OR staff? Usually those staff members are the same unless there are two concurrent c/s's going on. Did they swab all the nurses and other personal in the OB suite?

Someone also mentioned that it is impossible to have oral bacteria in the vaginal area. Hmm....are you sure about that? I think with some vivid imagination one can come to a different conclusion.

Again, I agree he should have worn a mask. I would never do a spinal without a mask. But I also think he was just the unlucky guy to get two complications credited to him.
 
I agree with Plank here that implicating physicians who havent been fully credited with an adverse event may not be optimal.

The only evidence they have here is that he was the only person common to both patients. What about the nurses or other OR staff? Usually those staff members are the same unless there are two concurrent c/s's going on. Did they swab all the nurses and other personal in the OB suite?

Someone also mentioned that it is impossible to have oral bacteria in the vaginal area. Hmm....are you sure about that? I think with some vivid imagination one can come to a different conclusion.

Again, I agree he should have worn a mask. I would never do a spinal without a mask. But I also think he was just the unlucky guy to get two complications credited to him.

.............
Dr. Varian said the CDC is using the latest biochemical processes to investigate the source of the infection.
These findings confirm the probability that the anesthesiologist transmitted the bacteria to the two patients, according to the hospital, as he was the only individual common to both women during the bedside anesthesia procedures.
 
When a patient has a bad outcome the hospital is not your friend and they will not hesitate to point their fingers at you.
So, if the CEO says that he is sure the anesthesiologist transmitted the bacteria to the patients we should take his words with a little bit of skepticism.
Do you guys have any idea how many hundreds of thousands or millions of patients received spinals by anesthesiologists not wearing masks over the past 60-70 years??
I challenge you to find one case report in the literature about an anesthesiologist causing meningitis in 2 patients on the same day.
Why didn't it happen any other day since he obviously never wore a mask??
Did he have Strep in his saliva for one day only??
So, unless they have witnesses saying that they saw him lubricate the spinal needle with his saliva before inserting it I don't buy it.
But with all that said, the poor guy should have worn a stupid mask and did what JACHO told him to do.
 
When a patient has a bad outcome the hospital is not your friend and they will not hesitate to point their fingers at you.
So, if the CEO says that he is sure the anesthesiologist transmitted the bacteria to the patients we should take his words with a little bit of skepticism.
Do you guys have any idea how many hundreds of thousands or millions of patients received spinals by anesthesiologists not wearing masks over the past 60-70 years??
I challenge you to find one case report in the literature about an anesthesiologist causing meningitis in 2 patients on the same day.
Why didn't it happen any other day since he obviously never wore a mask??
Did he have Strep in his saliva for one day only??
So, unless they have witnesses saying that they saw him lubricate the spinal needle with his saliva before inserting it I don't buy it.
But with all that said, the poor guy should have worn a stupid mask and did what JACHO told him to do.


I don't understand what you do not get by what was a DNA match for the strain from the Anesthesiologist and the strains from the women. It is debatable if only a type of Strep was identified but this is a DNA match and like humans DNA in bacteria is a fingerprint. (there were three independent tests performed and the CDC also did the DNA work)

This will be the first case report...

There have been at least 60 case reports of this problem (although only half were attributed to an anesthesiologist).
 
Here is an abstract on how it can be isolated to one provider.


Meningitis following spinal anesthesia: 6 cases in 5 years.

Rubin L, Sprecher H, Kabaha A, Weber G, Teitler N, Rishpon S.
Haifa District Health Office, Haifa, Israel. [email protected]
We describe 6 cases of meningitis after spinal anesthesia associated with a single anesthesiologist over the course of 5 years. The earliest case occurred in 2000, and the other 5 cases occurred over the course of 14 months in 2004-2005. The case identified in 2000 was culture-positive for Streptococcus salivarius. The other 5 cases were culture-negative for this organism but in 2 cases, the cerebrospinal fluid was found to be positive for bacterial DNA that was identified as belonging to S. salivarius by sequencing of the 16S rRNA gene. The association with a single anesthesiologist and a single hospital during a relatively short interval, however, lead us to believe that these occurrences are part of a series associated with possible violations of aseptic technique.
 
I don't understand what you do not get by what was a DNA match for the strain from the Anesthesiologist and the strains from the women. It is debatable if only a type of Strep was identified but this is a DNA match and like humans DNA in bacteria is a fingerprint. (there were three independent tests performed and the CDC also did the DNA work)

This will be the first case report...

There have been at least 60 case reports of this problem (although only half were attributed to an anesthesiologist).
I don't understand what part of (YOU DON"T KNOW ALL THE FACTS) you don't understand!
Are you a DNA expert?
Is it possible that the same bacteria in his mouth also exists in the hospital ventilation system and colonizes many hospital workers and is flying all over the place?
Why do you want to incriminate a physician based on an incomplete story and based on what a hospital's CEO told some reporter??
Do you have personal knowledge of more details?
 
Again, I think you need to swab every person in the OB suite (nurses, staff,etc). Like Plank said, this strand of Strep could be prevalent in that hospital's entire staff. As in EVERYONE's got it.

Either way. THis is a terrible tragedy for the patient .
 
But Dr. Grant Varian, medical director for the hospital, cautioned a definitive link has not been determined thus far.

"This may be as far as we get," he said Thursday after the CDC report. "I understand work continues, but they have not given us a timetable on how long it will take."

It is important not to fully jump to conclusions that it was a definitive link to the Anesthesiologist...the medical director acknowledged that himself.

It's an unfortunate tragedy and the real moral of the story is to follow the guidelines for aseptic technique to protect yourself from a situation like this that was very much avoidable by wearing a mask.

Also, you'd assume that they probably did swab everybody that came in contact with the two women...there was a case of active TB at my hospital a couple weeks ago and the ID specialists went on a witch hunt to find every person that came in contact with the patient. I'm sure their investigation has been at least that intense with the death of a new mother.
 
Guys,

There are at least 30 strains of the Strep Salivarius FYI and each have mutants. What are the odds that an exact genetic match with that many variants?

.......and yes you could say I am somewhat of an expert on the topic.
 
I don't understand what you do not get by what was a DNA match for the strain from the Anesthesiologist and the strains from the women. It is debatable if only a type of Strep was identified but this is a DNA match and like humans DNA in bacteria is a fingerprint. (there were three independent tests performed and the CDC also did the DNA work)

This will be the first case report...

There have been at least 60 case reports of this problem (although only half were attributed to an anesthesiologist).


Whether this unfortunate incident is the fault of the anesthesiologist or not it still does not come close to the disaster your brethren CRNAs caused in Las Vegas infecting who knows how many patients with Hep C.

So beat it Murse. :meanie:
 
I don't understand what you do not get by what was a DNA match for the strain from the Anesthesiologist and the strains from the women. It is debatable if only a type of Strep was identified but this is a DNA match and like humans DNA in bacteria is a fingerprint. (there were three independent tests performed and the CDC also did the DNA work)

According to the article you posted, they matched DNA between the bacteria found in the two women, but I didn't see any mention of matching the DNA between the Strep salivarius in the anesthesiologist's mouth and the women, only that they had matched the strain. Do you have a source to back this up?

potentagent said:
.......and yes you could say I am somewhat of an expert on the topic.

How so? Saying something without backing it up means nothing on this forum.
 
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Whether this unfortunate incident is the fault of the anesthesiologist or not it still does not come close to the disaster your brethren CRNAs caused in Las Vegas infecting who knows how many patients with Hep C.

So beat it Murse. :meanie:


I went through this a year ago........sorry not a nurse.

Also, why is everyone defending the non-use of a mask? A simple maneuver more than likely would have avoided this predicament.
 
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According to the article you posted, they matched DNA between the bacteria found in the two women, but I didn't see any mention of matching the DNA between the Strep salivarius in the anesthesiologist's mouth and the women, only that they had matched the strain. Do you have a source to back this up?
.


The CDC directed the hospital to provide it with the blood cultures from each of the two patients, the medication that was used in the procedures, and several unopened medications from the same lot numbers. In addition, the CDC directed the hospital to provide five different respiratory samples from the anesthesiologist only, as he was the only individual common to both women during the bedside anesthesia procedures.

Findings
Mary Rutan Hospital and the Ohio Department of Health have received information from the CDC relating to its investigation of the two bacterial meningitis cases. The CDC reports its tests reveal that the bacteria involved in both cases was Streptococcus salivarius, a bacteria commonly found in the mouths of the general population.

This confirms tests completed independently by Mary Rutan Hospital, the Mayo Clinic and Riverside Methodist Hospital. The CDC was then able to confirm, through highly specialized DNA testing processes, that the bacteria found in each patient was identical.

The CDC also reported that no Streptococcus salivarius bacteria was found in the medications, ruling that out as a source of the infection. The CDC has determined that two of the respiratory samples taken from the anesthesiologist show bacteria from the same biological group found in each of the two patients.

http://www.whiotv.com/health/19792580/detail.html

Check out the video...... (you can also contact via email the CDC for information very simple to do)



Again, why is anyone defending this action? A simple maneuver avoids this situation.... that is the point. Don't make excuses for poor judgment and don't try and deflect. Learn from it and don't replicate it... that is the point.
 
there is actually no definitive evidence here. just because someone says "dna" doesn't make them right. i'm sure i can find the same exact species of strep whatever in 100 places in the hospital.

the issue here, is the BLAME GAME, and administrators who have NO clue making decisions about what should be the standard of care - masks can't hurt so just wear them. there are many things in medicine that seem completely intuitive that just don't pan out...

also, potentagent, the only thing your posted study shows is that a particular species of a very common bacterium was present in 2 of 6 patients.

your strong, unilateral opinions are in NO way adequately supported by the LEVEL OF EVIDENCE you have presented (or that is otherwise available, ie wearing masks during epidurals).
 
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Even if the bacteria in the CSF has the same DNA as the one in the physician's mouth this could only mean that the same strain of bacteria colonized his mouth and caused the infection, it does not establish that he caused the infection.
It basically establishes that both the anesthesiologist and the patients were exposed to the same bacteria most likely in the hospital.
If he was transmitting Bacteria to pregnant women every time he did a spinal how can you explain that he only caused 2 cases of meningitis and on the same day? He should have been causing them everyday.
So, regardless of any political motives one might have to accuse physicians of negligence, there is no simple way to establish a cause and effect relationship.
 
Question:

Do you all honestly think this would even be an issue had a mask been worn?
 
Question:

Do you all honestly think this would even be an issue had a mask been worn?

1. yes it would be
2. that's exactly the point. we are letting administrators dictate an unproven standard of care, just "cause it makes sense." again, i think lots of things in medicine make sense, but just don't work.
 
Again, why is anyone defending this action? A simple maneuver avoids this situation.... that is the point. Don't make excuses for poor judgment and don't try and deflect. Learn from it and don't replicate it... that is the point.

Nobody is defending anyone about not using a mask. Nobody is making excuses. Why don't you get that?

Has everyone that likely came in contact with those two patients been checked? I have a hard time believing that this is the ONLY person to have come in contact with both patients. Extra nurses, techs, lab people - there are plenty of people that come into contact with patients every day whose name never appears on a chart.

Not wearing a mask? Stupid - we all agree.
 
Seems like I recall a study not too long ago examining the efficacy of masks - my recollection is that a mask is very effective blocking droplet nuclei for the first 10-15 minutes, but then becomes saturated and quickly becomes ineffective. Trying to look this one up, but coming up empty. Maybe someone can help with this? I always put on a new mask whenever doing pain blocks or labor neuroaxial procedures. I even swish some mouthwash occasionally, but mostly because wearing a mask all day can makes one's breath a little less than pleasant.

On similar note, how many of you are removing your watch and rings you're wearing? Jewlry supposidly provides a nice habitat for bacteria. We have one partner who wears a full surgical gown before neuroaxial procedures- anyone else doing this?
 
Seems like I recall a study not too long ago examining the efficacy of masks - my recollection is that a mask is very effective blocking droplet nuclei for the first 10-15 minutes, but then becomes saturated and quickly becomes ineffective. Trying to look this one up, but coming up empty. Maybe someone can help with this? I always put on a new mask whenever doing pain blocks or labor neuroaxial procedures. I even swish some mouthwash occasionally, but mostly because wearing a mask all day can makes one's breath a little less than pleasant.

On similar note, how many of you are removing your watch and rings you're wearing? Jewlry supposidly provides a nice habitat for bacteria. We have one partner who wears a full surgical gown before neuroaxial procedures- anyone else doing this?
I can't remember exactly where, but this is in the dental literature too.

It's been suggested that the effective barrier time is even less for dentists since we spend the whole procedure spraying water into our field, but as far as I know that remains unproven either way.
 
I think many are missing the point, here is a 14 year old article showing that DNA fingerprinting a strep isolate is not new. All I am saying is that it can be identified and I am sure with our improvements in DNA technology that it has been.
 

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I think many are missing the point, here is a 14 year old article showing that DNA fingerprinting a strep isolate is not new. All I am saying is that it can be identified and I am sure with our improvements in DNA technology that it has been.

I think that for some reason you desperately want to reach a conclusion that the physician did something wrong.
Is it because you are a nurse and you think you can do what physicians do?
Are you so mad at physicians that you want to make them look bad even if you don't have any supportive evidence?
 
I think that for some reason you desperately want to reach a conclusion that the physician did something wrong.
Is it because you are a nurse and you think you can do what physicians do?
Are you so mad at physicians that you want to make them look bad even if you don't have any supportive evidence?


A. Not a nurse.

B. I don't understand your logic, we have all taken microbiology, biochemistry, etc. We all know that each bacteria is unique.

C. Why is everyone so defensive about what should have been a non-issue. For christ sake, all he had to do was wear a mask. Am I missing something or what?
 
A. Not a nurse.

B. I don't understand your logic, we have all taken microbiology, biochemistry, etc. We all know that each bacteria is unique.

C. Why is everyone so defensive about what should have been a non-issue. For christ sake, all he had to do was wear a mask. Am I missing something or what?

You are missing something..
 
A. Not a nurse.

B. I don't understand your logic, we have all taken microbiology, biochemistry, etc. We all know that each bacteria is unique.

C. Why is everyone so defensive about what should have been a non-issue. For christ sake, all he had to do was wear a mask. Am I missing something or what?


you are either a nurse or an ambulance chaser.
 
you are either a nurse or an ambulance chaser.
Wrong on both accounts.

I do not believe those of you who are supporting the non-use of a simple mask for patient protection.

If you do believe not using a mask for neuraxial anesthesia is ok, I truly feel sorry for your patients.

"Do no harm" - remember?
 
Wrong on both accounts.

I do not believe those of you who are supporting the non-use of a simple mask for patient protection.

If you do believe not using a mask for neuraxial anesthesia is ok, I truly feel sorry for your patients.

"Do no harm" - remember?


You don't comprehend what is the overarching theme of our responses. You also don't acknowledge the possibility that there could have been a similar outcome had the anesthesiologist been wearing a mask. You should not presume guilt or direct causation just because the anesthesiologist chose to defer the mask.

And in the spirit of disclosure, tell us what it is that you do so we don't keep guessing.

Furthermore, you give yourself too much credit if you think you care more about our patients than we do.
 
You also don't acknowledge the possibility that there could have been a similar outcome had the anesthesiologist been wearing a mask..

We would not be having this discussion had a mask been worn, period. Either it wouldn't have happened or it would have been documented and the burden now would be exponentially less for that doc.

Didn't Aphistis cite literature about a 15 minute barrier time? I know I appreciate that when I have my mask on with neuraxial anesthesia. The point of the mask makes everything else meaningless and it is not the best practice, no?

Don't our patients deserve us to be at our best? How long does it take to put a simple mask on? Had that been done then again we would not be having this discussion.
 
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You don't comprehend what is the overarching theme of our responses..

I guess I don't. It sounds alot like making excuses for what was an inappropriate and dumb thing to do. How many of you will get on the stand and testify that it is best practice? I know I could not in good conscience do so.

Sorry you disagree with me but I always use a mask.
 
Furthermore, you give yourself too much credit if you think you care more about our patients than we do.


No I don't, I definitely care for mine. Just as you should about yours.

I know I don't post much but COME ON this is ridiculous, quit defending this action! Any action that is just plain lazy and causes patient harm is grotesque. (at least by appearance which could have been avoided all together)
 
I think (I hope not to misinterpret others) that everyone agrees that wearing a mask is the proper/correct thing to do. We get it. I don't think ANYONE has defended otherwise.

I also think that they are just trying to say that you cannot prove causation here.

beav
 
Wrong on both accounts.

I do not believe those of you who are supporting the non-use of a simple mask for patient protection.

If you do believe not using a mask for neuraxial anesthesia is ok, I truly feel sorry for your patients.

"Do no harm" - remember?


get a life dude. Moderators, ban this troll.
 
I guess I don't. It sounds alot like making excuses for what was an inappropriate and dumb thing to do. How many of you will get on the stand and testify that it is best practice? I know I could not in good conscience do so.

Sorry you disagree with me but I always use a mask.

No one here has suggested they support NO masks. What we all disagree with is hospital administration pinning the blame on a physician without having incontrovertible evidence. I disagree with your logic, which happens to be lower than that expected for a physician who routinely makes judgments based on accepted facts.

It's funny you should make the leap that because I disagree with your logic, that I myself don't wear a mask. In fact I do, with every neuraxial procedure. I still don't agree with condemning this physician before absolute proof that he is the source.

I'm beginning to question your comprehension of the English language. It's not your first language, is it? I'm sure you could argue circles around me in your native language, whatever it is, but you should read again the last several posts and understand that we all agree a mask is warranted, but few if any of us believe evidence has been given which undoubtedly points to this physician as the reason for the mother's death. Until then, this physician's livelihood has been threatened.

If you think you deserve more credibility around here, you can start by telling us what it is you do for a living, and how you came to become such an expert on Strep salivarius.
 
If you think you deserve more credibility around here, you can start by telling us what it is you do for a living, and how you came to become such an expert on Strep salivarius.

He already sidestepped the question twice...doubtful we'll be getting a straight answer on that one.
 
Wrong on both accounts.

I do not believe those of you who are supporting the non-use of a simple mask for patient protection.

If you do believe not using a mask for neuraxial anesthesia is ok, I truly feel sorry for your patients.

"Do no harm" - remember?
Burnett's Law wins again.
 
I think (I hope not to misinterpret others) that everyone agrees that wearing a mask is the proper/correct thing to do. We get it. I don't think ANYONE has defended otherwise.

I also think that they are just trying to say that you cannot prove causation here.

beav

Yeah, you are right on the causation link, that is to be determined. I just spoke to a buddy of mine from CDC on the phone tonight and found out that while the genetic link between the two women has been confirmed they didn't run any other testing until the epidemiologic report was done. Apparently the DNA testing on the isolates from the doc are being run this week. He said in 4 or 5 days that will be done.

He also said the Ohio Board of Medicine has pretty much already hung this guy out to dry in press releases.

All I am saying is that the burden would have been decreased exponentially had a mask been worn.
 
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