Anesthesiologists with Admin Role Within Hospital System

[NY172]

Hi, I’m looking to connect with any anesthesiologists who are employed by health system and split time between clinical OR responsibilities and non-clinical administrative role. If any of you fit that bill and would be amenable to sharing your experiences, please let me know and I will reach out to you. Thank you.

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[lotsapain]

I wish you the best of luck... I am guessing you are a resident or a junior attending who wishes to skip the "ladder" and elevate him/herself to an executive position. I am in a chief+ position and there are very few non-academic chiefs who are purely administrative or are 50/50. If you desire is to become a CMO/ Periop director etc. then do yourself a favor get an MBA / MHA from a top ranked school, get a FACHE and a CPE, CQHA, CPPS.... put in at least 5 years of leadership at a Director / Vice Chair / Chair level in a sizable institution..... participate in your local ACHE / HFMA chapter..... after that do a rain dance..... chant a mantra.... pray a lot and then maybe perhaps someone in the annals of the highly closed healthcare corporate world will reply from their golden mountain.... trust me bigger people have tried.... Anesthesiologists in executive positions are diamonds in the rough..... you are better off going to nursing school chances of becoming an admin are much higher....

 

[dabears505]

I wish you the best of luck... I am guessing you are a resident or a junior attending who wishes to skip the "ladder" and elevate him/herself to an executive position. I am in a chief+ position and there are very few non-academic chiefs who are purely administrative or are 50/50. If you desire is to become a CMO/ Periop director etc. then do yourself a favor get an MBA / MHA from a top ranked school, get a FACHE and a CPE, CQHA, CPSS.... put in at least 5 years of leadership at a Director / Vice Chair / Chair level in a sizable institution..... participate in your local ACHE / HFMA chapter..... after that do a rain dance..... chant a mantra.... pray a lot and then maybe perhaps someone in the annals of the highly closed healthcare corporate world will reply from their golden mountain.... trust me bigger people have tried.... Anesthesiologists in executive positions are diamonds in the rough..... you are better off going to nursing school chances of becoming in admin are much higher....

God damnit, I forgot the rain dance. That's why I'm still languishing in the ORs.

 

[lotsapain]

God damnit, I forgot the rain dance. That's why I'm still languishing in the ORs.

Indeed.... do it at least twice a day... they want us in the C-suite like flies on a piece of s***.... Internal medicine and family docs are much more welcomes because they know everything about OR / ER operations (sarcasm) - the drivers of hospital finances... they certainly love to talk about it though

 

[kidthor]

I tried to get more into admin roles but it was rough. Departmental admin roles never came with nonclinical time, and often also without a stipend (eg I was a site director and all I got was a “title”). Meetings were always tough to make because they’d be mid day, and I’d be sitting in a sea of nurse admins looking at me as if I was a wayward outsider. When enterprise-wide opportunities came up they’d be a combination of uninspiring and basically impossible for a practicing physician to actually do.

Honestly I think the admin class doesn’t want any physicians at the table and they structure it to perpetuate their fiefdoms without any outside reason.

There are a few good physician administrators out there, and some of them are anesthesiologists… but the effort to reward ratio is horrible. Or there’s luck involved. If you’re going to hustle that much I think it’s better to make cash now then do real estate. At least then you’re your own boss.

 

[nimbus]

Here’s an ortho who got into an admin role. Lesson-don’t plan a competing ortho specialty hospital and ASC on hospital time using hospital computers.

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/d7/dd70d18c-bd28-5223-b179-162f0bff84bd/6387dcb533a03.pdf.pdf

 

[ryanjmy]

There are a few good physician administrators out there, and some of them are anesthesiologists… but the effort to reward ratio is horrible.

 

[Endee]

 

[lotsapain]

There are a few good physician administrators out there, and some of them are anesthesiologists… but the effort to reward ratio is horrible. Or there’s luck involved. If you’re going to hustle that much I think it’s better to make cash now then do real estate. At least then you’re your own boss.

That is a silly statement, so you want to become and executive without putting forth the effort... a well said millennial proverb. Stipend should not be your primary driving factor it should be the result..... yes unfortunately- and I know this for a fact, many interviews are shams. They are orchestrated in order to create a vision of a search when indeed an inside candidate is already pre-determined. It is shameful really.

 

[vector2]

I wish you the best of luck... I am guessing you are a resident or a junior attending who wishes to skip the "ladder" and elevate him/herself to an executive position. I am in a chief+ position and there are very few non-academic chiefs who are purely administrative or are 50/50. If you desire is to become a CMO/ Periop director etc. then do yourself a favor get an MBA / MHA from a top ranked school, get a FACHE and a CPE, CQHA, CPPS.... put in at least 5 years of leadership at a Director / Vice Chair / Chair level in a sizable institution..... participate in your local ACHE / HFMA chapter..... after that do a rain dance..... chant a mantra.... pray a lot and then maybe perhaps someone in the annals of the highly closed healthcare corporate world will reply from their golden mountain.... trust me bigger people have tried.... Anesthesiologists in executive positions are diamonds in the rough..... you are better off going to nursing school chances of becoming an admin are much higher....

Username checks out

 

[lotsapain]

Username checks out

I think you are confused... I wanted to do a pain fellowship at some point....

 

[lotsapain]

Just to revive this for a second..... There is a clear trend of discrimination against physicians in general (and anesthesiologists or specialists specifically) in leadership roles..... you have to somehow be born a CEO a CMO etc. and be an internal medicine trained as you need to do some "clinic" days.... tis the same set of questions: Do you have experience being a CMO COO CEO etc.? (how can you have experience if everyone requires experience)... "Oh you are an anesthesiologist.... what do you know about Length of Stay or best practice guidelines?" oh everything because we know more then most specialties - "well no I was given a set of criteria this just won't do"


Most administrators now are either nurses or non-clinical people who have gotten degrees in healthcare admin without setting a foot in the hospital.....

Bottom line is: Lets praise the stewardesses because without them planes won't fly! What about the pilots? Who cares about the pilots if the food is not served hot....... you get the point

There is significant anti-physician discrimination in the industry that is becoming more wide spread... if we don not unite we will loose this battle against nurses, CRNAs, admins.....

 

[secretasianman]

It’s almost like there are many stakeholders that cannot provide any value or service to a hospital, yet get paid exorbitant sums of money, and are resentful of those who actually can..

Just to revive this for a second..... There is a clear trend of discrimination against physicians in general (and anesthesiologists or specialists specifically) in leadership roles..... you have to somehow be born a CEO a CMO etc. and be an internal medicine trained as you need to do some "clinic" days.... tis the same set of questions: Do you have experience being a CMO COO CEO etc.? (how can you have experience if everyone requires experience)... "Oh you are an anesthesiologist.... what do you know about Length of Stay or best practice guidelines?" oh everything because we know more then most specialties - "well no I was given a set of criteria this just won't do"


Most administrators now are either nurses or non-clinical people who have gotten degrees in healthcare admin without setting a foot in the hospital.....

Bottom line is: Lets praise the stewardesses because without them planes won't fly! What about the pilots? Who cares about the pilots if the food is not served hot....... you get the point

There is significant anti-physician discrimination in the industry that is becoming more wide spread... if we don not unite we will loose this battle against nurses, CRNAs, admins.....

 

[lotsapain]

It’s almost like there are many stakeholders that cannot provide any value or service to a hospital, yet get paid exorbitant sums of money, and are resentful of those who actually can..

That is indeed the case... that is done on purpose, medical spending is growing faster the the GDP it will soon occupy all of money produced by the country. Imagine how upset the above will be if people in the know will cut off their $$$$ supply .... do you really think it is necessary to pay a CEO a salary half of which can fund another medical floor to open etc.

 

[Dr. Rude]

That is indeed the case... that is done on purpose, medical spending is growing faster the the GDP it will soon occupy all of money produced by the country. Imagine how upset the above will be if people in the know will cut off their $$$$ supply .... do you really think it is necessary to pay a CEO a salary half of which can fund another medical floor to open etc.

Sorta agree.
I have known several MDs to get the big chair or a seat at the big table. But they went 0% clinical medicine (or nearly so- practicing just enough to keep up their clinical skills to maintain a lifeboat and keep their finger on the pulse of what was going on in the trenches).
I have known one Anesthesiologist who is likely going 50% clinical 50% administrative shortly mid career. But he is extraordinary.

There are several obstacles to being this type of "splitter".

1. For 99% of us, there is nothing that will pay us anywhere near our hourly rate that we get for our work as anesthesiologists.
2. In order to even get a shot, one has to invest an amazing amount of time doing things that will not add to their own personal bottom line but will add value to the system.
3. I do agree that being a practicing clinician (or an MD in general) is less helpful than being an alphabet person with some clinical background.
4. The most common path to accessing C-suite is a leadership role within the anesthesia group. It is very hard to balance clinical work, being a good citizen to the other docs, with attending meetings, balancing administrative desire to cut costs, personal ambition, ambition for the rest of the docs, etc. without garnering resentment. If the captain gets too far ahead of the troops, he may become indistinguishable from the enemy.

 

[aneftp]

An anesthesiologist making 500k a year would take a 60% paycut to move down to admin role. It’s a hard pill to swallow for most.

That’s why the only people who do it are later in career who made enough money.

Or just people who really don’t want to be clinical and aren’t motivated by money.

 

[lotsapain]

An anesthesiologist making 500k a year would take a 60% paycut to move down to admin role. It’s a hard pill to swallow for most.

That’s why the only people who do it are later in career who made enough money.

Or just people who really don’t want to be clinical and aren’t motivated by money.

That is not quite correct, admin roles pay $350 on average to 400...