Anesthesiology Has Biggest Increase In Residency Applicants Per Program Of All Specialities!!!!

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PathDoctor

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See ERAS preliminary data: ERAS Statistics
2019: 776 US applicants + 265 non-US applicants per program = 1041 applicants per program (new record, 1st time over 1000)
2018: 667 US applicants + 254 non-US applicants per program= 921 applicants per program
2011: 410 US applicants + 193 non-US applicants= 603 applicants per program
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PathDoctor said:
See ERAS preliminary data: ERAS Statistics
2019: 776 US applicants + 265 non-US applicants per program = 1041 applicants per program (new record, 1st time over 1000)
2018: 667 US applicants + 254 non-US applicants per program= 921 applicants per program
2011: 410 US applicants + 193 non-US applicants= 603 applicants per program
Click to expand...

im curious how much of this increase is due to primary applicants, vs people applying to multiple fields (not uncommon to use anesthesia as backup for more competitive specialties like ortho/ent/plastics).

im also curious to know the increase in available spots since program is not very specific.
 
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Follow the money... while not having a hard time finding a job


Medical students are not stupid anymore. Look at what is happening to rad onc; they can't even find enough US students to fill up their spots.
 
Splenda88 said:
Follow the money... while not having a hard time finding a job


Medical students are not stupid anymore. Look at what is happening to rad onc; they can't even find enough US students to fill up their spots.
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Um.. medical students have been following mainly 2 things when applying to residency.. 1) salary 2) lifestyle.
it's not new. the problem is, anesthesiology isn't doing better than previous at all. Lifestyle hasn't changed significantly in the past few years, and one can argue it has gotten a bit worse. I dont even think salary is keeping up with inflation..
it's not like radiology where it went from supersaturated and needing to do fellowships to land a job, to high starting salaries right after residency. So the 73% increase in applicants over 8 years doesn't make sense to me

my suspicion is that medical students get the wrong impression of anesthesiology during their rotations. from my experience working at a few academic hospitals. anesthesiology rotation is probably the only (or one of few) rotations where students pretty much have zero responsibility, get a ton of chill time, and leave early. i've NEVER had a med student stay with me overnight on call (or even late into the night). in ~every other specialty, they leave when clinic is done, during resident shift changes, or when the surgery is over. i rarely hear surgeons tell students to scrub out cause its 4pm.
 
anbuitachi said:
Um.. medical students have been following mainly 2 things when applying to residency.. 1) salary 2) lifestyle.
it's not new. the problem is, anesthesiology isn't doing better than previous at all. Lifestyle hasn't changed significantly in the past few years, and one can argue it has gotten a bit worse. I dont even think salary is keeping up with inflation..
it's not like radiology where it went from supersaturated and needing to do fellowships to land a job, to high starting salaries right after residency. So the 73% increase in applicants over 8 years doesn't make sense to me

my suspicion is that medical students get the wrong impression of anesthesiology during their rotations. from my experience working at a few academic hospitals. anesthesiology rotation is probably the only (or one of few) rotations where students pretty much have zero responsibility, get a ton of chill time, and leave early. i've NEVER had a med student stay with me overnight on call (or even late into the night). in ~every other specialty, they leave when clinic is done, during resident shift changes, or when the surgery is over. i rarely hear surgeons tell students to scrub out cause its 4pm.
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Was the job maker good for gas 3-4 years ago?
 
eikenhein said:
Is rad onc doing poorly with compensation?
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lower starting salaries than before, but overall no. the issue is oversupply right now so it will correct itself. actually since its a long residency, this might be an ideal time for a med student to go into rad onc, bc i think in 5 years market will pick up again for rad oncs. as far as i know reimbursements haven't realy gone down
 
Splenda88 said:
Was the job maker good for gas 3-4 years ago?
Click to expand...

it was worse than it is now. but its not like people were unemployed. there have been small increases in salaries, but nothing significant in my opinion. in fact if you look at average salary, anesthesiology has gown down several places compared to other specialties
 
anbuitachi said:
it was worse than it is now. but its not like people were unemployed. there have been small increases in salaries, but nothing significant in my opinion. in fact if you look at average salary, anesthesiology has gown down several places compared to other specialties
Click to expand...
The job market is getting good again; therefore, med students have taken notice. Salary might be stagnant but it's still >400k/yr average salary for a ~ 50 hrs/wk
 
Splenda88 said:
The job market is getting good again; therefore, med students have taken notice. Salary might be stagnant but it's still >400k/yr average salary for a ~ 50 hrs/wk
Click to expand...

but in terms of applicants, i think what should matter more is relative increase compared to other specialties. if i recall correct, medscape (i use medscape because majority of medical students do not know what MGMA is) ranked anesth salary as top 5 among the specialties it looked at maybe like 5 years ago or something. today it's dropped several places.

also, probably not the best idea to choose a specialty based on current job market for 5 years later! haha but i get it.

also i have been unable to find a reliable source of average hours worked per specialty. my only source is AAMC.org, which has old numbers, and listed anesthesiology as 61 hrs/week, which ranks at about #3 of ALL specialties worked.. i believe behind thoracic surgery, and another surgical field..
 
anbuitachi said:
but in terms of applicants, i think what should matter more is relative increase compared to other specialties. if i recall correct, medscape (i use medscape because majority of medical students do not know what MGMA is) ranked anesth salary as top 5 among the specialties it looked at maybe like 5 years ago or something. today it's dropped several places.

also, probably not the best idea to choose a specialty based on current job market for 5 years later! haha but i get it.

also i have been unable to find a reliable source of average hours worked per specialty. my only source is AAMC.org, which has old numbers, and listed anesthesiology as 61 hrs/week, which ranks at about #3 of ALL specialties worked.. i believe behind thoracic surgery, and another surgical field..
Click to expand...
My point is that med students follow trends... Diagnostic Radiology was dead 3-4 years ago because the job market was terrible, and any US student with no glaring red flags could have matched into diagnostic then because the # of applicants was equal to the # of spots... As soon as the job market rebounded, diagnostics rad has become competitive again.

Choosing a specialty based on current job market for 5 yrs later might not be a good idea, but it is a heck of a lot smarter than getting into a sinking ship (eg., Rad onc, Pathology etc...)
 
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Splenda88 said:
My point is that med students follow trends... Diagnostic Radiology was dead 3-4 years ago because the job market was terrible, and any US student with no glaring red flags could have matched into diagnostic then because the # of applicants was equal to the # of spots... As soon as the job market rebounded, diagnostics rad has become competitive again.

Choosing a specialty based on current job market for 5 yrs later might not be a good idea, but it is a heck of a lot smarter than getting into a sinking ship (eg., Rad onc, Pathology etc...)
Click to expand...
This is like the stock market. Dumb people will always buy when everybody else rushes in and the price is high, and sell when the rats are leaving the ship and the prices are low.

The smart "investor" will do his/her own objective analysis, based on DATA, and will adopt an owner mentality, who buys/sells based on merit, not social bias.

If one is still in one's thirties, and one likes to live in a large metropolitan area, this is NOT a good specialty long-term.
 
anbuitachi said:
Um.. medical students have been following mainly 2 things when applying to residency.. 1) salary 2) lifestyle.
it's not new. the problem is, anesthesiology isn't doing better than previous at all. Lifestyle hasn't changed significantly in the past few years, and one can argue it has gotten a bit worse. I dont even think salary is keeping up with inflation..
it's not like radiology where it went from supersaturated and needing to do fellowships to land a job, to high starting salaries right after residency. So the 73% increase in applicants over 8 years doesn't make sense to me

my suspicion is that medical students get the wrong impression of anesthesiology during their rotations. from my experience working at a few academic hospitals. anesthesiology rotation is probably the only (or one of few) rotations where students pretty much have zero responsibility, get a ton of chill time, and leave early. i've NEVER had a med student stay with me overnight on call (or even late into the night). in ~every other specialty, they leave when clinic is done, during resident shift changes, or when the surgery is over. i rarely hear surgeons tell students to scrub out cause its 4pm.
Click to expand...

look at the majority of post on SDN from 5-10 yrs ago and it is obvious why the decline then. The primary message on here was CRNAs and AMC are the future and there is nothing you can do about it. Every quarter there was an opinion article by some well connected CRNA in The Hill or Politico stating we need les physician anesthesiologist and Obamacare was strong with the lead architect publicly stating we need less anesthesiologist and laughed at the future of radiologist. It could be argued all the ideas of 5–10 yrs ago have been a flop and seem they might evenbe more pro physician and PP
 
FFP said:
If one is still in one's thirties, and one likes to live in a large metropolitan area, this is NOT a good specialty long-term.
Click to expand...

This is true of most medical and surgical specialties.

Supply and demand for labor. Young docs are usually getting the crumbs.
 
US News &World Report has ranked Anesthesiology as the most desired specialty for 2-3 years, of course residents are going to pick up on the numerous sub specialty options and life style benefits this unique field offers...

we just need more anesthesiology/MBAs running hospitals again.
 
10KHertz said:
US News &World Report has ranked Anesthesiology as the most desired specialty for 2-3 years, of course residents are going to pick up on the numerous sub specialty options and life style benefits this unique field offers...

we just need more anesthesiology/MBAs running hospitals again.
Click to expand...
Could the reason for the sudden spike in interest possibly be this simple? And stupid?
 
10KHertz said:
US News &World Report has ranked Anesthesiology as the most desired specialty for 2-3 years, of course residents are going to pick up on the numerous sub specialty options and life style benefits this unique field offers...

we just need more anesthesiology/MBAs running hospitals again.
Click to expand...

is that a real thing? link? ive never even heard of a usnw ranking of desired specialty..

either way it doesn't change much other than make things more competitive, since there are usually no unfilled spots anyway.
 
Stank811 said:
look at the majority of post on SDN from 5-10 yrs ago and it is obvious why the decline then. The primary message on here was CRNAs and AMC are the future and there is nothing you can do about it. Every quarter there was an opinion article by some well connected CRNA in The Hill or Politico stating we need les physician anesthesiologist and Obamacare was strong with the lead architect publicly stating we need less anesthesiologist and laughed at the future of radiologist. It could be argued all the ideas of 5–10 yrs ago have been a flop and seem they might evenbe more pro physician and PP
Click to expand...

That is some Kool-aid you are drinking my friend. But, if it works for you keep drinking it.
 
anbuitachi said:
it seems like their list is getting dumber and dumber. embarassing if med students are actually falling for this garbage. #1-6 all has median salary of 208000. #7 is.. PHYSICIAN. loL!
Click to expand...
On the one hand I feel like most med students would at least know about MGMA... but on the other hand, a bunch of people in my class legit didn't even know they had to do residency after med school so.................
 
zero0 said:
On the one hand I feel like most med students would at least know about MGMA... but on the other hand, a bunch of people in my class legit didn't even know they had to do residency after med school so.................
Click to expand...
What?

That is amazing...
 
Consigliere said:
Never underestimate the stupidity of people, even highly educated ones. Check that.....ESPECIALLY highly educated one.
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Medical school does not imply high IQ anymore.

To begin with, I still have to meet one high IQ person who didn't excel at a major STEM field of study, at some point in their lives. When people say "I hate math", I hear "I am not bright". And let's not count the math haters among doctors...
 
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FFP said:
This is like the stock market. Dumb people will always buy when everybody else rushes in and the price is high, and sell when the rats are leaving the ship and the prices are low.

The smart "investor" will do his/her own objective analysis, based on DATA, and will adopt an owner mentality, who buys/sells based on merit, not social bias.

If one is still in one's thirties, and one likes to live in a large metropolitan area, this is NOT a good specialty long-term.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. The dumb people are the ones that fight the trend and try to pick bottom or top. The smart ones are the ones that ride the trend. The once in the generation type of talents are the ones that have the courage and conviction to buy stocks in the downswing for cheap and hold it for the next 10-20 years.
 
residents are claiming “late” onset dyslexia in order to complete examinations.... society is f’d.

No disrespect to true dyslexic folks...
 
10KHertz said:
residents are claiming “late” onset dyslexia in order to complete examinations.... society is f’d.

No disrespect to true dyslexic folks...
Click to expand...

:hijacked: To be fair, accommodations for exams shows up on application transcripts. They aren’t looked upon favorably, fair or not. I have no clue where this poster is coming from, though.
 
My theory is this is a millennial attitude. I don't mean it in a derogatory way, but gone are the days that people care about ownership or putting in extra work for free.

Medical students will still look at anesthesiology as a job where they can clock in and out and cash a decent check. Sure there's call attached, but there are only a few specialties where you have no responsibility at all when you're not in the hospital. And knowing some of the anesthesiologists that I've met, they are quite happy to delegate responsibility to the surgeon when they are in the hospital.

The 7-5 job has its appeal to this kind of thought process.
 
Epilepsy365 said:
Incorrect. The dumb people are the ones that fight the trend and try to pick bottom or top. The smart ones are the ones that ride the trend. The once in the generation type of talents are the ones that have the courage and conviction to buy stocks in the downswing for cheap and hold it for the next 10-20 years.
Click to expand...
The problem with "riding the trend" (e.g. the geniuses who bought into all the Internet stocks, 20 years ago, and then lost their money) is that one doesn't know when it ends. This is why one should never just blindly follow the herd. Many times, the herd is wrong.

Also, choosing a residency is HIGHLY personal and specific. Like a bespoke suit. The most amazing graduate can royally suck in the wrong specialty, and barely float, while everybody around him/her is making a ton of money. This is why PERSONALITY FIT is the No. 1 predictor of success in a specialty, IMO. The second is PASSION for that particular specialty (not by exclusion - e.g. one hates rounding, hence anesthesia).

If one doesn't have a passion, one should get into a specialty that allows a lot of flexibility and career options, should one change one's mind later. This is not one of those. NEVER get into a specialty that doesn't fit; it's like working with the wrong size gloves for a lifetime. And don't follow the crowd!
 
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10KHertz said:
residents are claiming “late” onset dyslexia in order to complete examinations.... society is f’d.

No disrespect to true dyslexic folks...
Click to expand...
Because, in real life, dyslexia won't be an issue. 🙄

How about we stop accommodating all these intellectual "disabilities"? (With disrespect to both true and fake dyslexics.) Most meritocratic societies couldn't give a crap.
 
FFP said:
The problem with "riding the trend" (e.g. the geniuses who bought into all the Internet stocks, 20 years ago, and then lost their money) is that one doesn't know when it ends. This is why one should never just blindly follow the herd. Many times, the herd is wrong.

Also, choosing a residency is HIGHLY personal and specific. Like a bespoke suit. The most amazing graduate can royally suck in the wrong specialty, and barely float, while everybody around him/her is making a ton of money. This is why PERSONALITY FIT is the No. 1 predictor of success in a specialty, IMO. The second is PASSION for that particular specialty (not by exclusion - e.g. one hates rounding, hence anesthesia).

If one doesn't have a passion, one should get into a specialty that allows a lot of flexibility and career options, should one change one's mind later. This is not one of those. NEVER get into a specialty that doesn't fit; it's like working with the wrong size gloves for a lifetime. And don't follow the crowd!
Click to expand...

I don’t know about personality fit. Honestly, it comes down to which specialty bs can I tolerate the most and which specialty will give me the most flexibility if I want to bail out on hospital med.

With regards to Anesthesia, it’s very attractive along my classmates bc of no rounding, shift work most of the times, and getting paid well. The only bs is dealing with surgeons but most people in this specialty are generally easy to get along with. The Type A personality people will hate this specialty and for those people, they should have done surgery instead.
 
10KHertz said:
residents are claiming “late” onset dyslexia in order to complete examinations.... society is f’d.

No disrespect to true dyslexic folks...
Click to expand...

All the standardized exams are too long. I have no idea why anybody would want to spend more time on them. As far as I know perseverating over the answers does not improve performance. My strategy was always to finish as quickly as possible and get the f*** out.
 
Epilepsy365 said:
With regards to Anesthesia, The only bs is dealing with surgeons
Click to expand...

You dont have a clue.

THat is not even on my radar. The surgeons are very easy to deal with .

There is a zillion examples of BS that exists in an anesthetic practice.

Why do you think the incidence of substance abuse and suicide is so high amongst us?
 
PieOHmy said:
You dont have a clue.

THat is not even on my radar. The surgeons are very easy to deal with .

There is a zillion examples of BS that exists in an anesthetic practice.

Why do you think the incidence of substance abuse and suicide is so high amongst us?
Click to expand...
Probably because people take their jobs too seriously. Come to work, do your job, and go home. Have a life outside of medicine. Live beneath your means. There is no job worth harming yourself over. If you find yourself working too much go get one of the mommy track jobs for “only” 250.
 
FFP said:
Medical school does not imply high IQ anymore.

To begin with, I still have to meet one high IQ person who didn't excel at a major STEM field of study, at some point in their lives. When people say "I hate math", I hear "I am not bright". And let's not count the math haters among doctors...
Click to expand...

What do you mean "anymore"? Implying that it was harder or more intelligence based "back in the day"? Objective med school admission standards (MCAT and GPA scores) are higher now than they have ever been in the past. It's no debate med school was easier to get into 20+ yrs ago than it is today both academically and from a supplementary CV standpoint. I think perhaps a more applicable statement might be that high IQ/academic intellect does not imply common sense/practical intellect (which plenty of doctors tend to lack).
 
Epilepsy365 said:
I don’t know about personality fit. Honestly, it comes down to which specialty bs can I tolerate the most and which specialty will give me the most flexibility if I want to bail out on hospital med.

With regards to Anesthesia, it’s very attractive along my classmates bc of no rounding, shift work most of the times, and getting paid well. The only bs is dealing with surgeons but most people in this specialty are generally easy to get along with. The Type A personality people will hate this specialty and for those people, they should have done surgery instead.
Click to expand...

Why not go outpatient primary care or psych where the lifestyle is similar to a mommy track anesthesia job and the income is as good or better? The difference in income between a primary care job and a typical full time anesthesia job is made up on nights and weekends.
 
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nimbus said:
Why not go outpatient primary care or psych where most of the jobs are mommy track?
Click to expand...

Psych isn't for everyone, and 90% 230+ Step 1 scorers look down on primary care.

The mommies of my class are honestly going into this field for a 40-50 hrs/wk type of work to make around 300K +/- 50K while having time for the family. In fact, two mommies that I know of so far.

I personally pulled weekend calls with my Anesthesiology preceptor during third year. If you're good at your job, it's not a big deal most of the times. It can get stressful on some difficult patients, but it's enough to provide that weekly controlled adrenaline rush unlike our surgical colleagues who are on steroid 24/7. I also pre-charted patients with my attending for next week as part of my work.

It's definitely not for me. But, it's not surprising to see applicants rushing into Anesthesia and probably more in the future despite the gloom and doom mantra on this board. EM and Anesthesiology are becoming more competitive bc when you're done, you're done. You don't get called to the hospital on your off time unless you're in a bad setup. Good money plus decent job market. No rounding. 5-7 sentences note. Minimal patient contact and the bs that comes along with it especially if you're an introverted person. Plenty of procedures especially if you have the touch for it. It's also not a bad backup for surgical applicants.

My honest thoughts and observations. Peace.
 
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Everyone on here is so functionally challenged it is an embarrassment.
 
Everyone on here only bitches and moans and says things get more competitive and anesthesia sucks. Honestly everyone in this whole forum should get their damn license revoked and flip burgers at waffle house and really have some **** to bitch about. If you are a doctor you got to man up and be a winner. No one wants to listen to losers who bitch and moan. Anesthesia is a great specialty and so is getting to be a doctor. It's amazing for me to think any posters here are actually equipped to effectively lead in a healthcare setting with how poor their outlook is. No one wants to follow that type of mentality.
 
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