Anesthesiology in the Military

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

EmmaNemma

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
135
Reaction score
0
Just wondering if any of the HPSP programs provide a likely route to anesthesiology in the military? I have read the military forum extensively and it sounds like pursuing anesthesiology in the military can result in getting the run around. Any advice? Thanks.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Just wondering if any of the HPSP programs provide a likely route to anesthesiology in the military? I have read the military forum extensively and it sounds like pursuing anesthesiology in the military can result in getting the run around. Any advice? Thanks.

Dude, are you for real?

Seriously.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Well PGG and I are still here...

I'm sorry if I offended you. Unintended. You guys are great, knowledgable, intuitive.

Just miss MILMD posting here.

He was loved. He was hated.

I miss him. (btw..we speak occasionally...so its not like he's dead...he's still out there)

I miss Noyac posting here too.

IlDest, PGG, you guys are BAD A S S in my book.

Thanks.

Just missing some of my old homies...
 
Last edited:
Well PGG and I are still here...
And she looks more like a Dudette.
Here's my advice, don't do the HPSP. Look into the FAP and control your own destiny.
Why do you want to be in the military?

I am going to be attending an expensive private school and not going into debt would be great.
 
Read up on the FAP on the milmed forum. It's a better deal.
Joining for the money is a bad decision. I joined to serve (happy to take the $$ though) got some lucky breaks, made some wise choices, and did well. Government service is a family tradition dating back a LONG time (6 generations in the US). That was a tradition I took very seriously and was willing to make a commitment to. Taking care of our soldiers and their families, and giving them the best possible care was an honor. Many HPSP people don't get lucky breaks, make uninformed decisions, and get a big serving of "suck it up". Decisions you make now to avoid some loans will change your life in ways you might not like 5-12 years from now when they have their claws in you. (when you have a spouse, family, etc)
At least with the FAP you control your future, specifically the timing and location of your training. Mil GME leaves a lot to be desired. If you're a superstar, you may be doing yourself and your career a big disservice. Don't count on a deferral to Stanford or Harvard either. There's no way to predict what the Mil is going to need or do several years from now when you are done with medical school. Are you OK doing an internship and going GMO for a few years to repay your time before getting out and starting a residency?
 
I've written words to these effects in the milmed forum before. I've become much, much less enthusiastic about HPSP over the last 5-10 years, and here's why. Mostly it comes down to issues after you've finished medical school.

1)
It's more or less impossible to predict what military residency opportunities will be like in 5-15 years, which is the time frame you're looking at. You may be thinking anesthesia now, but most of us change our minds about specialty during medical school. Even if you carefully look at the military anesthesia programs as they are today, it's a significant gamble to commit yourself NOW to training there many years down the road.

You're a pre-med now, so med school graduation is 2015 at the earliest. 2016 you're done with internship. Depending on which branch of service, and annual circumstances beyond your control, there is a good chance you'll end up spending 2-3 years doing primary care as a GMO. Now you're starting residency in 2018 or 2019 ... finishing up your CA3/PGY4 year in 2021 or 2022.

The overall trend within military medicine has been one of downsizing and outsourcing. Tricare has been an unmitigated disaster for training programs; patient volume and acuity (ie, how sick the patient is) have declined. Most programs in most fields have compensated for this by adjusting residency class size, or by including "out" rotations at other institutions. Some programs have been largely unaffected and remain very strong (FP training, for example). In general the surgical and procedural specialties are the ones that have been hurt the most.

I got very good training in anesthesia, but 9 of my 36 months from CA1-3 were at outside hospitals. Which was fine - I think it's even a benefit to some degree to work in multiple environments, but the travel and 'guest' status kind of got old after a while.


2)
The military residency system is a much smaller pool, numbers wise, so there is far more year-to-year variability in competitiveness than in the civilian match. Rarely, this is nice, when more competitive specialties are easier to get into. More commonly, it just means specialties that are modestly competitive in the civilian world are extremely tough to get in the military. EM and anesthesia are the poster children for this phenomenon.


3)
The military doesn't need a lot of radiation oncologists or pediatric endocrinologists. If you change your mind about anesthesia during medical school, as the odds say you probably will, what happens if you choose a field the military doesn't need very much (or at all)? You'll probably spend your payback years as a GMO doing primary care for an operational unit, then get out of the military, and do a civilian residency. There are worse things than being a GMO, but even under the best circumstances, it's a multi-year delay in training.


4)
If you end up in a high paying specialty, HPSP will be a large financial loss in the long run. A few primary care specialties may come out ahead. But you don't know what specialty you'll end up in.


5)
FAP is a way to get some financial support during a civilian residency after a un-sponsored medical school, in return for an agreement to serve on active duty after residency. This leaves all control in your hands for where and when you do your residency. It's probably a better option if you want to join the military.


6)
Don't join the military if you don't want to be in the military. The milmed forum is awash in people who joined for the tuition money and hate their lives. If you don't want to be in the military, don't join the military.


7)
I've been basically happy with the Navy. Part of that has been luck. I also came in via USUHS not HPSP, and my intent from the beginning was to be career military. I was able to embrace a GMO detour with Marine infantry while others in my position were miserable, and some military-isms that are intolerable to others are just annoying hassles to me.



It makes me kind of sad that I've become something of an anti-recruiter for HPSP. There's plenty of blame to go around. I just think that there are better options if you want to serve.
 
PPG and IlD give a good rundown of the program, and concerns you should have, though their viewpoint is from the Navy, and other services are a bit different (if only very little). Nearly everything said holds true for Army, though the chance of a GMO tour is substantially less. Nearly all Army residents are pre-selects, but we do have a few GMOs as well. Discussing case loads and acuity with some of my civilian staff (or active duty who trained civilian), I realize just what I am missing out on by doing my residency through the military. Overall, though, still ok with my decision to serve.

Which branch are you considering?
 
Thanks PGG and Psychbender for your responses. I have talked with all three branches and they have all looked me in the eye and said that I will be able to go straight thru into anesthesia. I really appreciate you telling me the reality of the situation and the trend in military medicine.🙂
 
Thanks PGG and Psychbender for your responses. I have talked with all three branches and they have all looked me in the eye and said that I will be able to go straight thru into anesthesia. I really appreciate you telling me the reality of the situation and the trend in military medicine.🙂

Just to be clear, the chance of your going straight through in the Navy is essentially zero.
COULD you? Of course, it is theoretically possible. Will you match competing against people returning from years in GMO land? No. You could get a civilian deferral for straight through training, but counting on that would be a mistake.
 
Just to be clear, the chance of your going straight through in the Navy is essentially zero.
COULD you? Of course, it is theoretically possible. Will you match competing against people returning from years in GMO land? No. You could get a civilian deferral for straight through training, but counting on that would be a mistake.

Seconded. A classmate of mine applied anesthesia (was AF, I believe). Did NOT match in the military. Was given a deferment; however, the guy was not all that competitive, and thus did not match in the DO or MD match (1. didn't apply to the programs early enough, 2. did not rotate anywhere, and rotations are key in the DO match, etc. etc....). So, I believe he is now serving out as a GMO tour.

A friend of mine was Army, stud candidate, DID match straight through for anesthesiology in the military.

So, it depends on a lot of things. Being competitive and extra ready for the worst-case scenario helps you out considerably... and even then, you may still not match straight out (and/or receive a deferment), as suggested above.
 
Thanks PGG and Psychbender for your responses. I have talked with all three branches and they have all looked me in the eye and said that I will be able to go straight thru into anesthesia. I really appreciate you telling me the reality of the situation and the trend in military medicine.🙂

The recruiters will tell you whatever you need to hear to sign on the dotted line. I started applying for HPSP, but ended up backing out after I talked to some residents who were actually in it and what they were saying was in direct contrast to what the recruiters were saying.

The FAP actually seems like an ideal fit, and I would have been all over it except that I've gotten married in the interim and my wife's training program will end 1-2 years after mine (depending on whether I do a fellowship or not). Since we're looking at having small children at that point, it's not something I'm willing to commit with the high likelihood of being separated.

So now my question is, is there any sense in joining the AF post-residency with no obligations? It's not something I would see myself doing as a career move, since I'm not sure the military can provide the long-term clinical environment (acuity, diversity, etc) I'm looking for. But, my father was career AF (21 years as an OR nurse), and it's something I've wanted to do strongly for quite some time. I've been very adamant about keeping my educational/career opportunities as open as possible, and now I'm just afraid the ship has passed. Thoughts?
 
The Navy was behind the other two services when Congress passed a law a few years that specified all military GMOs shall be residency trained. By the time the Army and USAF realized that they were facing a major shortage in operational physicians, the Navy slowed down this residency-trained GMO conversion and is still pumping GMOs out of internship and using them as flight surgeons and undersea medical officers, marine docs, etc, but who knows how long this will last. With that being said, there is a change in the tide and going straight through may be more likely but I haven't heard of folks going straight through in anything other than FP at this point (also been away from the major Navy residency hospitals for a few years).
The Navy has been a very rewarding experience for me as an HPSP individual but I have also rolled with the punches/curve balls that have been tossed my way. At the end of the day I landed an out-of-match spot at my #1 program in anesthesia and can't say I would have done it any other way. BTW, the days of landing out-of-match spots are coming to a close as this may soon not be an option.
One thing that you can count on is that what you see today and what you would be facing as a new med school graduate will likely be very, very different.
If you are up for an adventure, ready to see the world, and prepared to have some disappointment in timing/specialty selection than go for it.
 
The recruiters will tell you whatever you need to hear to sign on the dotted line. I started applying for HPSP, but ended up backing out after I talked to some residents who were actually in it and what they were saying was in direct contrast to what the recruiters were saying.

The FAP actually seems like an ideal fit, and I would have been all over it except that I've gotten married in the interim and my wife's training program will end 1-2 years after mine (depending on whether I do a fellowship or not). Since we're looking at having small children at that point, it's not something I'm willing to commit with the high likelihood of being separated.

So now my question is, is there any sense in joining the AF post-residency with no obligations? It's not something I would see myself doing as a career move, since I'm not sure the military can provide the long-term clinical environment (acuity, diversity, etc) I'm looking for. But, my father was career AF (21 years as an OR nurse), and it's something I've wanted to do strongly for quite some time. I've been very adamant about keeping my educational/career opportunities as open as possible, and now I'm just afraid the ship has passed. Thoughts?

There was a thread that I read in the military forum that said that the AF takes a certain number of civilians into their anesthesia residency each year. Just wondering if this is true and if there is any sort of catch? If not, what is the motivation to take civilians?
 
There was a thread that I read in the military forum that said that the AF takes a certain number of civilians into their anesthesia residency each year. Just wondering if this is true and if there is any sort of catch? If not, what is the motivation to take civilians?

I've never heard of that. I HAVE heard of that for FP positions that don't fill (Fort Benning comes to mind, not sure if they are Army or AF at the moment).
 
There was a thread that I read in the military forum that said that the AF takes a certain number of civilians into their anesthesia residency each year. Just wondering if this is true and if there is any sort of catch? If not, what is the motivation to take civilians?

I don't know all the details, so don't take this as gospel -

I believe anybody (well, any US citizen eligible for commissioning as an officer) can apply through the military match. If selected for a position, you can come on active duty for residency. This incurs a service obligation of 1 year for every 1 year of residency.

In short, you end up owing as much time as an HPSP grad who did an inservice residency, except you didn't get your med school tuition + stipend.

I'm really not sure why anyone would do this. It doesn't seem to be a financially rational decision. For those who want to join and be a military doctor, FAP is probably a better path.
 
Thanks PGG and Psychbender for your responses. I have talked with all three branches and they have all looked me in the eye and said that I will be able to go straight thru into anesthesia. I really appreciate you telling me the reality of the situation and the trend in military medicine.🙂

When I enlisted in the Army many years ago, the recruiter told me I could go to Hawaii and be an Army musician. I couldn't even play an instrument! Is this country great or what? I chose combat arms. Glad to be a vet.
 
I'm currently a pgy3 at the anesthesiology residency program in San Antonio. Of all of our residents(almost 60) none have done that so add that to recruiters "interesting statements". I would agree with most of what is said above and would stress that if you want to join the military, want to deploy, want to do lots of computer based training, want to get paid significantly less when staff, and you completely understand that there is a very very good chance of a gmo tour(ESP for anesthesia), BUT want to take care of the guys AND GALS who sacrificed more than you could imagine, have a pretty secure quality of life through residency(ESP for families), and recruiters favorite line... want to "get to see the world" then go for it. But, ask every question first!

Please if you have any questions about anything pm me.

Don't do it for the money, I mean it.
 
I really appreciate all the responses. Thanks 🙂
 
When I enlisted in the Army many years ago, the recruiter told me I could go to Hawaii and be an Army musician. I couldn't even play an instrument! Is this country great or what? I chose combat arms. Glad to be a vet.

I had a Marine who loved comic books and was disgruntled because his recruiter told him he could draw cartoons for the base newspaper.

Surprise, they gave him a rifle.
 
Top