Another ranking/matching question

[PTP]

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Would the following be correct?

Say I rank 10 programs. Say the first 5 I rank I have a low chance of getting into but I really like them so I rank them in that order. Another program has told me they really like and I am strong candidate there. THis program as say 6 positions. If I rank them 6th and they rank me within their top 6 will I match there if none if my top 5 programs rank me high?

In other words: if a program has X number of positions and you rank them within the number of positions they have you can still match there assuming of course they rank you within there number of positions and you dont match with any of the programs you ranked higher.

 

[Jamezuva]

yes..it's correct...


For the last time people....rank in order of where you want to go...it's not that complicated 🙄 😛

 

[yaah]

It doesn't matter where you rank programs, it matters where they rank you. You could rank a program 25th on your list (if you have that many) and if you get down that far on your rank list you can go there.

The match algorithm favors you. It places you at the highest rank program on your list that you are also ranked at by programs.

Say you put a program #1, and they have 6 spots. Say they rank you #7 on their list. If everyone they ranked 1-6 puts them #1 as well, you won't match there, it doesn't matter that you ranked them #1.

Rank the programs in the order you want to go to them. Do not try to outthink the system or manipulate it, because it's pointless.

It is pretty clear on the NRMP website, so check it out.

 

[kas23]

It doesn't matter where you rank programs, it matters where they rank you. You could rank a program 25th on your list (if you have that many) and if you get down that far on your rank list you can go there.

The match algorithm favors you. It places you at the highest rank program on your list that you are also ranked at by programs.

Say you put a program #1, and they have 6 spots. Say they rank you #7 on their list. If everyone they ranked 1-6 puts them #1 as well, you won't match there, it doesn't matter that you ranked them #1.

Rank the programs in the order you want to go to them. Do not try to outthink the system or manipulate it, because it's pointless.

It is pretty clear on the NRMP website, so check it out.

However, from the program's point-of-view, this is also true:

It doesn't matter where the PROGRAM ranks the applicant, it matters where the applicant ranks you. You could rank an applicant 25th on your list (if you have that many) and if you get down that far on your rank list, they may go there.

Say you put an applicant #1, and they have 7 ranked programs. Say they rank you #7 on their list. If every program they ranked 1-6 puts them #1 as well, they will not be going to your prorgam, it doesn't matter that the program ranked them #1.

My point: it matters tremendously where the APPLICANT ranks programs from a program's point of view and from your own perspective. So as the above poster puts it correctly, rank the programs in the order you want to go to them. Its really that simple.

 

[MD'05]

The program has the advantage. Most will rank 10-12 candidates for every spot they offer. If they interview 100 people for 10 spots, and rank all 100 (which some programs do) then the odds of ranking at that program does not favor the candidate, unless the candidate is ranked in the top 10 at that program. Then the odds of matching favor the candidate.

If the candidate is ranked #11 by the program, then the candidate has to hope that the 10 top candidates either don't rank, or rank the program lower than candidate #11 did.

To ensure a candidate matches, a person would have to interview at 100 programs and rank all given that the candidate:residency position ratio is 10:1. Expensive, but worth it.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Well this is why we play the game right? I mean we have to what's necessary for programs to rank us as high as possible. First, one person sends brownnosing thank you letters. Then somebody else comes up with the brilliant idea that hand-written thank you cards are the way to go. Then suddenly, everybody jumps on the boat and sends everybody thank you cards and letters. See the trend? What's next now?

I'm not saying that we have to show uber enthusiasm toward every program and tell each of them that they are our #1 but we have to play our political cards very wisely and judiciously. That's what I think. Now, what probably happens in real life is that we're making too much out of this and programs will just rank us as they see fit (which I'm all for and hope is really the case).

 

[MD'05]

As I was told by a program director: "we are playing the same numbers game that you are." I personally don't put alot of faith into ass-kissing. I think it is more valuable to be genuinely friendly and enthusiastic. If your CV makes their program look good and you are not an dingus, they will probably rank you highly. Otherwise, odds are against you.

 

[PTP]

So do you guys think programs tell anyone there even remotely interested that, "you are a good fit here, youre a strong canadiate, etc, blah blah..." so that the person condisers them highly and ranks then OR do the programs only tell people there really interested in this?

 

[marchiafava]

The program has the advantage. Most will rank 10-12 candidates for every spot they offer. If they interview 100 people for 10 spots, and rank all 100 (which some programs do) then the odds of ranking at that program does not favor the candidate, unless the candidate is ranked in the top 10 at that program. Then the odds of matching favor the candidate.

If the candidate is ranked #11 by the program, then the candidate has to hope that the 10 top candidates either don't rank, or rank the program lower than candidate #11 did.

To ensure a candidate matches, a person would have to interview at 100 programs and rank all given that the candidate:residency position ratio is 10:1. Expensive, but worth it.

First of all, your scenareo is one that is either fictual or one that represents Poe Donk University. Programs rarely rank that many. But I will still entertain your argument that the candidate is getting the shaft. Do you realize that it doesn't matter, except for some rare situations, how many people a program ranks, It could be 100 could be 30, could be 10,000! you need to review how the match works. It is an applicant proposing match, meaning the applicant has the advantage 99.9% of the time. It doesn't matter where you rank your programs, it matters how the program ranks you. Now, you may say that interviewing tons of people makes it hard on applicants??? But you would be wrong again. Using the law of averages and the bell curve of all neuro applicants, interviewing 100 people is ******ed, like your post. Getting the theme here. With all hundred being interviewed and then ranked you are including 50-60 applicants that had applying but were rejected and in your monkey scheme, they are in. so you see that you will be competing with the same top caliber applicants but now with some not so good applicants. How does this hurt the applicant..... UHHHH Not at all. But I think we all knew that. You need to understand the logistics of the match first partner, then you'll see that you can't manipulate it and the applicant has the advantage...unless you fall for programs telling you we want you so you have to rank us #1 to come here(big lie!!!). Then if you do this and start ranking programs that you made the deal with the devil or ranking where you think you have the most chance... well... then you are screwed. You may match at your #1 or 2(safety schools) and lose out at any top notch programs ranked lower. I would reccomend you get a grasp on this before you send you ROL in.
P.S. A very famous person said: It's better to keep your mouth shut and APPEAR stupid then to open it and remove all doubt." WRITE THAT DOWN

 

[marchiafava]

However, from the program's point-of-view, this is also true:

It doesn't matter where the PROGRAM ranks the applicant, it matters where the applicant ranks you. You could rank an applicant 25th on your list (if you have that many) and if you get down that far on your rank list, they may go there.

Say you put an applicant #1, and they have 7 ranked programs. Say they rank you #7 on their list. If every program they ranked 1-6 puts them #1 as well, they will not be going to your prorgam, it doesn't matter that the program ranked them #1.

My point: it matters tremendously where the APPLICANT ranks programs from a program's point of view and from your own perspective. So as the above poster puts it correctly, rank the programs in the order you want to go to them. Its really that simple.

This ..... I dont even know what to say. Did the gerbel in your head stop running on its wheel when you wrote that. It is false, ridiculous, unrealilistic. LOL

 

[MD'05]

P.S. A very famous person said: It's better to keep your mouth shut and APPEAR stupid then to open it and remove all doubt." WRITE THAT DOWN

You should take your own advice you stupid piece of ****. What are you a f*cking first grader? I see that you mentioned neuro which is a specialty for f*cking *****s. The reason why a neuro program wouldn't rank 100 is that they don't have 100 candidates to rank.

Before you degrade my post, get your head out of your ass and get a clue you stupid swine and do some research.

What I said stands you reaking troll. I would kick your stupid ass if I could get my hands on you.

 

[MD'05]

So do you guys think programs tell anyone there even remotely interested that, "you are a good fit here, youre a strong canadiate, etc, blah blah..." so that the person condisers them highly and ranks then OR do the programs only tell people there really interested in this?

If a program is interested in you, the program director will express enthusiasm towards you in some manner. Otherwise, you get the "thank you for coming today", which I hate to hear. That is so flaccid they might as well say, "you looked so much better on paper than you do in person."

 

[marchiafava]

First, I can obviously tell you are an irrational idiot. You told me I am stupid and that your monkey argument stands, but you did nothing to back it up. Dude, get proof that the programs have the advantage and get proof that what I said is wrong. You would be a terrible lawyer. Case Scenario: MD05(crappy lawyer) cross examining the defendent: So Mr Iamastupidass, why did you buy that gun?? Plaintiff: I didn't my sister did. MD05: Thats crap, you suck, you are *****, all defendents suck, I'm gonna kick your ass. UhhUhh, Did I make a good point judge?

As you can see you are the missing link. If you have some constructive argument as to why what you stated is correct please enlighten us. If not,
I would be more than happy to lower myself to your standards, and meet you somewhere and make you wish you were being sodomised instead of me pummeling you.

 

[MD'05]

First, I can obviously tell you are an irrational idiot. You told me I am stupid and that your monkey argument stands, but you did nothing to back it up. Dude, get proof that the programs have the advantage and get proof that what I said is wrong. You would be a terrible lawyer. Case Scenario: MD05(crappy lawyer) cross examining the defendent: So Mr Iamastupidass, why did you buy that gun?? Plaintiff: I didn't my sister did. MD05: Thats crap, you suck, you are *****, all defendents suck, I'm gonna kick your ass. UhhUhh, Did I make a good point judge?

As you can see you are the missing link. If you have some constructive argument as to why what you stated is correct please enlighten us. If not,
I would be more than happy to lower myself to your standards, and meet you somewhere and make you wish you were being sodomised instead of me pummeling you.

My proof will be when you don't match. If you had half a brain you would see the validity in my original post. I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to argue with someone that is applying to TWO neurology programs. That is evidence enough that 1. you are extremely arrogant or 2. your mama deprived you of protein as a child.

 

[marchiafava]

you are the first real idiot I have met on this board. I'm sure you will do just fine in the match.... Im sure programs liked you??? I wouldn't want anyone in my program that can't defend his own argument and resorts to cracked out insults. You better hope to scramble well, because I can't imagine anyone liking you. I already want to kick your ass. By the way, that prposition is still on the table. IM me and we can set it up. If you start talking tough then I hope you will follow through and not coward out and say something like, I don't do imateur things like this on anonymous fourms, Your an idiot. Haha You brought it up, I want to accept. Talk to you soon.

 

[kas23]

marchiafava: first, the gerbal may have stopped running in my head, but the gerbal in your ass is still driving deeper. Second, you quote is from Mark Twain, you should heed his advice.

 

[marchiafava]

very good kas, you can google a quote and find its sayer, and use it on me. BRAVO BRAVO! You graduate: from the same school MD05 does-- Monkey Loser University. By the way, you can still defend your argument, I'd would really like to hear it.

 

[MD'05]

you are the first real idiot I have met on this board. I'm sure you will do just fine in the match.... Im sure programs liked you??? I wouldn't want anyone in my program that can't defend his own argument and resorts to cracked out insults. You better hope to scramble well, because I can't imagine anyone liking you. I already want to kick your ass. By the way, that prposition is still on the table. IM me and we can set it up. If you start talking tough then I hope you will follow through and not coward out and say something like, I don't do imateur things like this on anonymous fourms, Your an idiot. Haha You brought it up, I want to accept. Talk to you soon.

Well of course you would call me out you imbecile. But now I know where you are and the next time I am in Philly, I will look you up. I predict that you will be living off South St behind a dumpster sucking on a short dog around this time next year. You'll be getting lots of sodomizing selling your puny ass for a few duckets.

 

[MD'05]

very good kas, you can google a quote and find its sayer, and use it on me. BRAVO BRAVO! You graduate: from the same school MD05 does-- Monkey Loser University. By the way, you can still defend your argument, I'd would really like to hear it.

DIE TROLL, DIE!

 

[marchiafava]

Hey MD05, I m praying you come to philly soon... Ooooohh I cant wait. Seriously, when you come, go to Finnegans Wake and ask for the birdman. You will soon realize who you are ******* i n g with.

 

[MD'05]

Hey MD05, I m praying you come to philly soon... Ooooohh I cant wait. Seriously, when you come, go to Finigans Wake and ask for the birdman. You will soon realize who you are ******* i n g with.

I am sure Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Cornell, Hopkins, and Hahnemann would be interested in the fact that one of their male Neurology candidates from PCOM with a step I of 237, Complex 98%, class rank in top 5% might possibly pose a danger to patients and colleagues. Hmmm.

 

[marchiafava]

Thats funny, considering I only ranked half of those programs and I am from NYCOM not PCOM. Your pathetic.

 

[MD'05]

Thats funny, considering I only ranked half of those programs and I am from NYCOM not PCOM. Your pathetic.

I am pathetic. Thanks for the info. I still can't believe you only ranked 2.5 programs. But then I forgot that neuro is in the SF match. Maybe it will work for you.

P.S. those 2.5 programs would still like to know that you have a screw loose.

 

[marchiafava]

"In short, the attending layed into me when I made a statement that the attending felt was part of the diagnosis and not the chief complaint (it was the chief complaint) and I choked and now when I try to present progress on a patient the attending absolutely ignores me. The senior resident is also not allowing me to admit new patients -- not that this person has come out directly and said this, but I can tell what is going on." your quote

"No offense taken ... outside of medical school I would have used this attending as a punching bag" your quote

You sound like a real strong candidate. Maybe the programs your applying to should know that you also wanted to kick his ass, somewhat threatening him. Hmmmm

 

[MD'05]

"In short, the attending layed into me when I made a statement that the attending felt was part of the diagnosis and not the chief complaint (it was the chief complaint) and I choked and now when I try to present progress on a patient the attending absolutely ignores me. The senior resident is also not allowing me to admit new patients -- not that this person has come out directly and said this, but I can tell what is going on." your quote

You sound like a real strong candidate. Maybe the programs your applying to should know that you also wanted to kick his ass, somewhat threatening him. Hmmmm

Nice job on finding my post. You get a gold star. You are still a psycho and danger to patient care.

Also, if you want to continue this pissing contest, PM me off line. This was a nice thread before you stuck your wagging tongue into the mix.

 

[marchiafava]

Danger to pt care?? are u kidding me! neither of us is a danger to pt care. Your very good at starting to threaten me, and throw around insults. I wonder what field of medicine you are going into?? ER?FM?no no urology, yes urology, you do what you are!

 

[MD'05]

Danger to pt care?? are u kidding me! neither of us is a danger to pt care. Your very good at starting to threaten me, and throw around insults. I wonder what field of medicine you are going into?? ER?FM?no no urology, yes urology, you do what you are!

You just won't stop will you? I concede then. I realize when I am going up against a complete sociopath/psychopath. I will not be able to win. Go away neuroboy and play with your EMG needles.

 

[marchiafava]

ok. bye. it was nice talking with you. good luck with the match.

 

[kas23]

very good kas, you can google a quote and find its sayer, and use it on me. BRAVO BRAVO! You graduate: from the same school MD05 does-- Monkey Loser University. By the way, you can still defend your argument, I'd would really like to hear it.

BTW, I am still waiting for your argument against mine. You failed to include it, but tried to concentrate moreso on an insult towards me. And I did not google that quote, I was an Eng Lit major in undergad. Do you understand what English is? "You graduate: from the same school MD05 does-- Monkey Loser University." Are you for real? Have you ever seen the movie "Napoleon Dynamite?"