Another USC vs NYU post

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euphaire

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Hi,

I'm really excited to receive an acceptance today from USC!
So it really comes down to USC vs NYU for me at this point. Could someone comment on the schools in terms of clinical strength/patient base (do you have to get ur own patients at USC or NYU?)?
I'm fine with PBL or traditional - I even like PBL, but I'm a little concerned as to how well that prepares me for the board.
Yes, I did my research. I also know there are quite a few USC vs NYU threads. I didn't find the information I needed. I'd love to hear from people who are knowledgeable with both/either schools to make a more informed decision by this Sunday.
Thank you. I look forward to hear your opinions.
 
It's not? How could it not be? lol. Unless you mean that you'd be equally happy in either place? I can't imagine where you'll be spending the next *four years* of your life would not be a concern.
 
I'm in the same boat.

USC was very, very attractive. The weather is perfect, the facilities are incredible, the campus is beautiful. The atmosphere is laid back.

NYU was attractive too. It would be a once in a lifetime opportunity to live in NYC and see what that's all about.

At this point I'm leaning towards NYU though. From reading posts and going to the interview at USC, it seems like students have a hard time fulfilling all of the clinical requirements at USC. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is just the vibe that I get. NYU on the other hand has the largest patient base in the country, and I have not heard one person saying that it is hard to fulfill all of the clinical requirements there. However, if it weren't for that one concern, I would have been at USC in a heartbeat and would have been very happy about it. I'm still hesitant about this decision. I am tempted to call up USC and see if they'll still accept my deposit. I think it is an id versus superego thing for me. lol. My id is telling me to go enjoy the sunshine in southern california. After all, I'm being responsible enough by going to dental school, why not pick a school that I think I'll be happier at? My superego is telling me that I've worked to hard to not go to a school that I am not 100% confident will give me the best education and set me up the best for my future.
 
California over NYC any day. Beaches, sunshine, surfing, and just the Cali life in general. To you, location doesn't matter so the main difference is PBL or not. I hear USC has a good clinical experience (not too sure) and I know for a fact NYU has the largest patient base (not sure if there is a chair problem though). Also note that although USC is very beautiful, the surrounding immediate area is shady. It's like a gated kingdom in the middle of the slums lol.

Anyways, I think a lot of people look down upon PBL because it's not something they are used too. Through out your whole life, you've been taught the traditional way and changing is just too much for some people. So PBL or not should be your deciding factor since location doesn't matter.
 
OP, I am assuming you're worried about graduating on time. The clinical requirements are demanding at USC but I have words from multiple current USC students (I mean current, like current D1,2,3) that although that might be the problem years ago it is no longer a problem. Almost all students graduated on time these years (95%). Because the USC clinical requirements are demanding you're also more well trained. I was told that patients are given to you from the upperclassmen or the general practice director, although you can also bring in your own patients. I am going to confirm that with other current USC students. They also said if you are diligent and not lazy there will be no problem finding patients.
 
I was told that patients are given to you from the upperclassmen or the general practice director, although you can also bring in your own patients. I am going to confirm that with other current USC students. They also said if you are diligent and not lazy there will be no problem finding patients.
Gina, correct me if I'm wrong. From your reply, I got the impression that one needs to really work hard to get patients at USC - not that I don't plan to work hard, but wouldn't this imply there aren't many patients for USC students? That can be a concern. Could you elaborate on this?
 
Gina, correct me if I'm wrong. From your reply, I got the impression that one needs to really work hard to get patients at USC - not that I don't plan to work hard, but wouldn't this imply there aren't many patients for USC students? That can be a concern. Could you elaborate on this?

From what I know, the reason why one needs to work hard is because the clinical requirements are pretty demanding in terms of the sheer volume and the quality of work expected from you. The instructors are picky they want you to do it correctly (like exactly on point) so the margin of error is very small. I don't see that as a bad thing because that only makes you a better dentist. I was told that as long as you work hard and don't go chill at the beach when you're supposed to work at the clinic then you'll graduate on time (which is backed up by the 95% on-time graduation rate; 5% slackers+personal choice/unforeseen difficulty). I hope that makes sense to you. I am still in the process of getting more information from current students so I can't say a lot about it just yet, but I will PM you with more info.
 
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At this point I'm leaning towards NYU though. From reading posts and going to the interview at USC, it seems like students have a hard time fulfilling all of the clinical requirements at USC.
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At this point I'm leaning towards NYU though. From reading posts and going to the interview at USC, it seems like students have a hard time fulfilling all of the clinical requirements at USC.
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Okay, it seems that a lot of posters mention concerns with USC's clinical. Where did you guys all get your information? From current students?
 
I just put this together for another sdner, so thought I'd share with all. It's a comparison between the current clinical requirements in the major areas of clinic, NYU vs. USC.

Crowns/onlay/inlay: 9 vs.20
Operative: 60 vs. 125
Extractions: 10 vs. 25
Endo (RCT): 5 vs. 6 + 4 bench exams with extracted teeth
Perio (quads): 12 vs.22

I'm a D3 at USC, so those stats are correct. The ones from NYU I got from this thread (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11885637#post11885637) so I'm not sure if they are up to date. I don't know anything about NYU, but from this it seems like SC has you doing twice as much work in the clinic. 95% on-time graduation sounds pretty accurate to me...I've only known one person that didn't finish up by June, but I'm sure there were others. And there are some people that take it upon themselves to bring in their own patients, but they usually graduate early. The hardest part is getting the "right" patients, ie, the ones that need the same treatments that you need to do to meet all your requirements, but everyone is good about trading and your group practice director keeps an eye on what you need and will assign you those patients when they get them.

So basically, you aren't working hard to get patients, you're just working hard to get through the treatment plans of all the patients you do have.
 
Thanks everyone for sharing your experience. Very helpful! 🙂 What about the two schools in terms of specialization and research?
 
Thanks everyone for sharing your experience. Very helpful! 🙂 What about the two schools in terms of specialization and research?

NYU has a research program for accepted students the summer before dental school starts. It's free and requires no experience. I also think NYU gets like the most funds for research or something like that. I don't know about USC, but I'm sure they've got some pretty sweet research opportunities too. Specialization.. my guess is that if you can specialize from one you can specialize from the other.
 
Thanks everyone for sharing your experience. Very helpful! 🙂 What about the two schools in terms of specialization and research?

Anyone else? I need to make a decision by Sunday :scared:. I'm still looking for more feedbacks. Please share!
Thank you,
C
 
I had the same decision, and I think I'm going with NYU. This decision was hard, cause I love the sunshine and hate the cold. But I made that decision for a few reasons. 1. once in a lifetime opportunity to live in NYC. 2. The clinic situation sounds less stressful/frustrating at NYU. 3. I'm more comfortable with the regular lecture style.
 
I had the same decision, and I think I'm going with NYU. This decision was hard, cause I love the sunshine and hate the cold. But I made that decision for a few reasons. 1. once in a lifetime opportunity to live in NYC. 2. The clinic situation sounds less stressful/frustrating at NYU. 3. I'm more comfortable with the regular lecture style.

I would make the same choice for these reasons. Would be hard to part with soCal though...
 
Bump. I'm currently dealing with this predicament as well..can we get some more feedback? OP - Which did you choose and why?
 
Anyone? This decision is hard and insights would be appreciated!
 
I chose NYU because I would like to live in NYC for a few years and have heard that you can graduate with as much clinical experience as you would get at USC depending on how much time you put in. For the most part I have learned to ignore the negative posts regarding NYU that are mostly false anyways.
 
nyu is much better. i was blown away by their facility and falculty (maybe it's my 1st interview), but all the later interviews never gave me that feel. Much better clinical and research opportunities
 
I go to USC so I can really only give accurate information on USC, but I've liked it here so far. Life is very enjoyable and you get to have a great time and enjoy your life while getting a very good clinical education. I've always felt that the faculty treat you with respect here and seniors tend to graduate saying that their time at dental school were the best four years of their lives. I'm in my third year and I am pretty sure I'll be saying the same thing in a year and a half when I graduate. It's been a great experience so far. On the other hand I did live in NYC for undergrad and it is a great city, so you have two good choices.
 
Both schools have similar tuitions , Both places are nice to live, Both schools are great to attend and have top clinical program,,, the difference is PBL (USC) vs Lecture (NYC). Which one you feel comfortable with is important. Good luck with your decision
 
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I go to USC so I can really only give accurate information on USC, but I've liked it here so far. Life is very enjoyable and you get to have a great time and enjoy your life while getting a very good clinical education. I've always felt that the faculty treat you with respect here and seniors tend to graduate saying that their time at dental school were the best four years of their lives. I'm in my third year and I am pretty sure I'll be saying the same thing in a year and a half when I graduate. It's been a great experience so far. On the other hand I did live in NYC for undergrad and it is a great city, so you have two good choices.

Thank you for your honest portrayal of your experience. I guess the main concept that is hanging me up is that the tuition at USC is actually MORE expensive while students say they learn LESS due to PBL, and have to teach themselves instead of being taught by world-class instructors in a systematic setting. I know both schools are excellent clinically so I'm mainly comparing the basic science instruction that we'll be undergoing the first couple of years. Do I want to teach myself in dental school? I'm not sure if that makes much sense. This is my career now..I don't want to take any short cuts, even if that means embarking on a more rigorous curriculum at NYU.

Also, does anyone know if this speaks truth? I found it on another thread here:

NYU vs. USC Clinical Requirements [This was in response to people saying USC students don't finish their clinical requirements on time because they simply have too many requirements]. Which school's numbers are more in line with the average dental school?!

Crowns/onlay/inlay: 9 vs.20
Operative: 60 vs. 125
Extractions: 10 vs. 25
Endo (RCT): 5 vs. 6 + 4 bench exams with extracted teeth
Perio (quads): 12 vs.22
 
Last year exactly 90% of the students graduated on time, and the other 10% mostly graduated within 2 months after that, starting with next years graduating class they requirements have been adjusted to finish your graduation requirements a semester early so that you can spend extra time doing work in a field you're interested in or if you're behind to finish up your graduation requirements without staying past graduation. We had over 90% part I pass rate this year, I don't know the exact number and unlike other schools that punish you if you fail, we actually get rewarded with a party thrown by the dean if we get a good pass rate. It's interesting to think about the science part, when I think back to any course I took over a year ago I don't remember the fine details. I remember the broad concepts, but I've memorized glycolysis like 8 times and I doubt I could draw the whole thing out for you today. I'm sure you'll get enough of the important underlying broad concepts that actually matter if you choose to go to USC, maybe you'll miss out on some of those fine details, but chances are you'd forget them at some point anyway or at some point or the science will change making those fine details inaccurate.
 
Last year exactly 90% of the students graduated on time, and the other 10% mostly graduated within 2 months after that, starting with next years graduating class they requirements have been adjusted to finish your graduation requirements a semester early so that you can spend extra time doing work in a field you're interested in or if you're behind to finish up your graduation requirements without staying past graduation. We had over 90% part I pass rate this year, I don't know the exact number and unlike other schools that punish you if you fail, we actually get rewarded with a party thrown by the dean if we get a good pass rate. It's interesting to think about the science part, when I think back to any course I took over a year ago I don't remember the fine details. I remember the broad concepts, but I've memorized glycolysis like 8 times and I doubt I could draw the whole thing out for you today. I'm sure you'll get enough of the important underlying broad concepts that actually matter if you choose to go to USC, maybe you'll miss out on some of those fine details, but chances are you'd forget them at some point anyway or at some point or the science will change making those fine details inaccurate.

I see what you did there. This is quite a difficult decision..
 
PBL has been a major issue for people considering attending schools like USC or LECOM Dental School. People on SDN constantly talk bad about PBL and how it makes students teach themselves. However, I think that we should pause for a second and critically think about the possible benefits of PBL. Does PBL deserve such a bad reputation?

In what I have learned from PBL, I believe that it is very beneficial for dental students to learn for several reasons. First of all, PBL is modeled after real-life situations that dentists might face on a daily basis. PBL begins with a case or situation that is presented to the students. The students read the details about the case and plan out a strategy to research necessary, pertinent information. This is where the bulk of learning takes place: students have to research and learn principle topics in the basic sciences (i.e., immunology, physiology, microbiology, biochemistry) that relate to the case. Then the students formulate a plan of action to treat the case. Then in the end, the faculty explain the details of the case, clearing up any misconceptions and finalizing the outcome and details about the patient.

No, PBL is not the same as lecture-based learning, but in all actuality, PBL is very much like what a doctor or dentists comes face-to-face with every day. Perhaps a patient might come into the dental office and begins to complain about chest pains while he is on the operatory chair. The dentist has to gather information about the history of the patient, considering the underlying causes of the patient's chest pains, and take a course of action to help alleviate the patient's pain. Isn't this exactly what PBL is? The structure of PBL trains the dental student to be able to treat cases and situations that he/she might face in the real world. PBL does not isolate microbiology or physiology into one separate courses, but in each PBL case, all the fundamental sciences are integrated and applied to a realistic clinical context. PBL trains the dental student to critically think, analyze, and take action in a clinical setting.

I don't think that PBL is somehow less than the traditional lecture-based learning, nor do I believe that the traditional lecture-based learning is somehow deficient. I have respect for both, as do many schools like USC and LECOM that have a MIXTURE of both traditional lectures and PBL cases. Furthermore, wasn't it Harvard that actually started PBL? - but I rarely hear students complaining or talking bad about Harvard. PBL is not perfect, but sitting in a lecture room for eight hours each day - is that always the best way to learn?

I do believe that one of the main benefits of traditional lecture-based learning is that students are given the incredible opportunity to learn from professors who are some of the most renown educators in their field. Perhaps this is aspect is missing in PBL, where the faculty or instructors leading PBL are often not professors or dentists. PBL students cannot spend all day long in a lecture room and expect to be spoon-fed information by a speaker. Instead, they have to take the initiative, be proactive, and research the relevant information on their own - which is exactly what happens in the real world - where professors/lecturers won't be there to hold your hand and spoon-feed you information. This is another difference between PBL and traditional lecture.

However, USC Dental School actually DOES have lectures, and two of the most renowned, world-class dentists teach at USC. For example, Dr. Pascale Mange is the world-renowned professor of restorative dentistry and teaches as a professor at USC. Furthermore, Dr. Stanley Malamed, who is the world-renown professor of local anesthesia and emergency medicine, teaches at USC Dental School. USC Dental School has the best of both worlds - both traditional lecture and PBL.

I also wanted to address the huge clinical requirements that USC Dental students must complete in order to graduate on time. Many dental school applicants seem to take this as a negative and worry about completing the clinical requirements to graduate on time. However, I believe that the difficult clinical requirements of USC is precisely what trains a student to become a good dentist. We learn by repetition, and the high number of root canals, fillings, crowns, etc. that students have to complete at USC is exactly what makes a good dentist - the heart of dentistry. Maybe students at other schools such as UCLA, NYU, or UCSF spend eight hours a day sitting in a room hearing a lecture, but students at USC complete more clinical requirements than students at most other dental schools. Maybe some students like to sit in lecture all day long, but in all actuality, the reason why someone goes to dental school is to become a good dentist, to be able to actually do dentistry - a skill that cannot be learned by merely sitting a lecture room for eight hours each day. The heart and core and the *artistry* of being a good dentist is being able to work with your hands and shaping someone's smile and self-confidence, NOT just telling your patients about the basics of biochemical pathways like glycolysis. Both are necessary: a good dentist must know both the fundamentals of medicine and have the proper technical skills to help his/her patient. I believe that USC Dental school is a great place to learn both the basic medical sciences and the technical skill.

There is a reason why USC Dental School has survived and thrived for the past 100 years. There is a reason why USC Dental School has such a wonderful reputation of prestige and honor.

Furthermore, I would like to address the complaint regarding the expensive tuition of USC Dental School. Yes, it is true that students can accumulate up to half a million dollars of loans that they must pay off within a 20 year period. This is a very valid concern that makes me worry about my future after graduation. However, when I look at the huge tuition, I have to ask myself, "What do I want to become?" I want with all my heart to become a dentist, and perhaps this is the price that I have to pay to have my dream come true. I have been to other dental schools, and there is NO such thing as a cheap dental school. The tuition money of other dental schools are actually somewhat similar to the tuition of USC Dental School. In the end, even with the huge student debt, I will still be a Doctor of Dental Surgery, and that is a huge honor. To live my life knowing that I can help reshape someone's smile to improve their oral health and self-esteem - what a huge honor that is! The sacrifice, the hard-work, the endless testings and exams - this is part of the journey toward become a health-care professional. Being a dentist or doctor is not all about money and having fancy cars, but it is part of our human dignity to know that we can use the gifts that God has given us to help improve the quality of life of our friends, family, and community. I have been given the incredible gift of having a strong intellect and manual dexterity, and furthering my education in graduate school is rooted in my sense of self-respect and dignity. Maybe I can remember this when I think about the enormous student debt that I will eventually pay off. I am thankful for all the miracles in my life that God has blessed me with. I want to live everyday of my life to honor and to glorify God.
 
NYU
I didn't get very good vibes from usc. Not very professional.. just kind of felt like undergrad and not a professional school and NOT in a good way. NOVA was relaxed but professional at the same time.
Pbl is a major issue. Pbl itself is a very good method of learning but how it's implamented at USC isn't very effective.

You get no summer break. Pay 80k a year.

Doesn't have a very good reputation. Every single dentists/dental students I've talked to other than those from usc told me to avoid going there.
 
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