Any D3's worried?

[livefastdieyoung]

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Looks like there could be no clinic until August. Dental boards likely not going to accept a non-live patient exam. Anyone else worried about what this could mean for graduating on time and fall interviews for residencies?

 

[ssm38]

Where did you hear August? My school hasn't told us anything and are keeping us in the dark...

 

[tlovaj]

Looks like there could be no clinic until August. Dental boards likely not going to accept a non-live patient exam. Anyone else worried about what this could mean for graduating on time and fall interviews for residencies?

If no non-live patients then how will the d4s graduate?

 

[HatInTheCat]

Nope. Not at all. Things will work out. It’s okay to feel anxious, but know that you’ll have something to talk about 10 years from now. Struggles make stories!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AONLINE]

Yes we are somewhat screwed due to lost clinic time but we’ll be able to make up for that in the next year and still set to graduate in May 2021. Our situation is not as bad as the current D4’s.

 

[deleted923283]

I am beginning to doubt we will graduate in May 2021. I don’t see any probable future where we are back in clinic with patients in the next 6 months. There is no herd immunity, there is no vaccine, there is no PPE, there is no widespread antibody testing, there is no economy. Having lost so many prime months, I think schools will make us go an extra year to “ensure adequate training” or some reasoning along those lines. When does the country decide to open back up? The more I think about that question, the scarier our situation becomes.

 

[ssm38]

"I am beginning to doubt we will graduate in May 2021. I don’t see any probable future where we are back in clinic with patients in the next 6 months. There is no herd immunity, there is no vaccine, there is no PPE, there is no widespread antibody testing, there is no economy. Having lost so many prime months, I think schools will make us go an extra year to “ensure adequate training” or some reasoning along those lines. When does the country decide to open back up? The more I think about that question, the scarier our situation becomes."

If that happens, they better not charge us extra tuition... I'm already livid the school is charging full tuition next semester when we may not even open up clinics until mid-summer!

 

[Sweet_Tooth]

I am beginning to doubt we will graduate in May 2021. I don’t see any probable future where we are back in clinic with patients in the next 6 months. There is no herd immunity, there is no vaccine, there is no PPE, there is no widespread antibody testing, there is no economy. Having lost so many prime months, I think schools will make us go an extra year to “ensure adequate training” or some reasoning along those lines. When does the country decide to open back up? The more I think about that question, the scarier our situation becomes.

Been thinking this too. Our school keeps assuring us there's no way our graduation could be delayed but I just don't see how we would go about this when the entire premise of our clinical education is based on patients showing up to clinic and getting (mostly elective) procedures done. And even the ones that need emergency care, it wouldn't be ethical for us inexperienced students to be performing that emergency care on them during this time, it would be in everyone's best interest for them to be seen by the experienced dentists who can get them in and out of the chair asap. The longer the procedure, the more the risks would increase.

Not trying to be negative, just being realistic. And I think our programs need to be realistic with us too instead of feeding us false hopes

 

[Ir3nicus]

The problem will be reassuring patients and getting them to feel safe coming back in to the clinic where they will be surrounded by hundreds of people.

 

[luisfigo]

D4's here don't have to worry, they've gotten most of their requirements, or they've been waived. They've also gotten most the experiences they need anyway as well, they're just waiting on graduation and licensure. And with most offices closed and the normal wait for a license it's not as if they were going to be working until July anyway. With the curriculum change D3's spent a large percentage of the time assisting D4's, then clinic was canceled as soon as most patients were to be transferred from D4's to D3's. The D3's here will be the worst graduating class in the history of this institution.

 

[AONLINE]

D3’s at my school have been in clinic treating our own patients for almost a year. Yesterday our deans have hinted about the possibility of having us D3’s assist the D4’s when we’re back to clinic to help them finish whatever requirements they have left, which hopefully won’t be long. But then the bigger concern is how are we going get the patients to finish our own requirements.

 

[deleted972255]

D3’s at my school have been in clinic treating our own patients for almost a year. Yesterday our deans have hinted about the possibility of having us D3’s assist the D4’s when we’re back to clinic to help them finish whatever requirements they have left, which hopefully won’t be long. But then the bigger concern is how are we going get the patients to finish our own requirements.

Is your school anticipating that much fewer patients will be coming into clinic?

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

Is your school anticipating that much fewer patients will be coming into clinic?

very obvious this will happen. Plus, the corona virus hit the pocket book of many families. Most dental schools, if not all, correct me if I am wrong, target lower-income patients who mostly live pay check to pay check. As long as dental school still charge money for its dental procedure, patients will have even harder time to pay for procedure after all this madness. compound this with fear of infection, good luck.

for my school, if you have 6 patients that have money to pay for whatever treatment plan suggested to them, you are done with 95% of dental school requirements and can pass any competencies thrown at you. This is just to show you how little patients you have to see. But the problem is not all patients have the money and the patience to be with you for 1+ year to the finish line.

 

[deleted923283]

very obvious this will happen. Plus, the corona virus hit the pocket book of many families. Most dental schools, if not all, correct me if I am wrong, target lower-income patients who mostly live pay check to pay check. As long as dental school still charge money for its dental procedure, patients will have even harder time to pay for procedure after all this madness. compound this with fear of infection, good luck.

for my school, if you have 6 patients that have money to pay for whatever treatment plan suggested to them, you are done with 95% of dental school requirements and can pass any competencies thrown at you. This is just to show you how little patients you have to see. But the problem is not all patients have the money and the patience to be with you for 1+ year to the finish line.

I'd say 70% of our patients are Medicaid, so money won't be the #1 issue, but infection certainly will be. These patients all have something - COPD, HTN, T2DM, asthma...

I wish I went to your dental school if 6 patients are enough for requirements. Our bare minimum to pass is 19 crowns, 12 dentures, 40 extractions, 10 quads SRP, 8 RCTs, and the list goes on and on.

EDIT: Guys, I know what Medicaid does and does not cover. I said it wouldn’t be the #1 issue. Obviously, it will be an issue. I just think patient fear of infection will be a more prominent issue towards our clinical progress.

 

[deleted972255]

I'd say 70% of our patients are Medicaid, so money won't be the #1 issue, but infection certainly will be. These patients all have something - COPD, HTN, T2DM, asthma...

I wish I went to your dental school if 6 patients are enough for requirements. Our bare minimum to pass is 19 crowns, 12 dentures, 40 extractions, 10 quads SRP, 8 RCTs, and the list goes on and on.

Medicaid does not cover much in the way of dental care. Crowns are not covered, pretty much only cleanings, restorations, extractions, and dentures. No RCT, perio, crown, or implant coverage.

Yeah infection is a big issue-I don't think rapid testing will be coming to dental clinics anytime soon seeing as how dental care is mostly considered "non-essential," at least in the US.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I'd say 70% of our patients are Medicaid, so money won't be the #1 issue, but infection certainly will be. These patients all have something - COPD, HTN, T2DM, asthma...

I wish I went to your dental school if 6 patients are enough for requirements. Our bare minimum to pass is 19 crowns, 12 dentures, 40 extractions, 10 quads SRP, 8 RCTs, and the list goes on and on.

Medicaid in your state covers a lot of dental care? Medicaid in my state for adult covers only complete dentures and extractions. That is it. It does not cover restorations or cleanings/SRP or crowns, RPD, etc. The school makes all patients to have good hygiene first before any restorative work aka have to go through all cleaning/srp first. Patients struggle to pay for SRPs, and then restorations already since most require 1-2 quad SRP at minimum and at least 5-6 restorations.

What I mean is 6 patients with extensive tx planning with couple crowns for each, some ext for each, and RPD.

Requirements for our school are 10 class 2, 5 class III, 6 crowns,5 arches of complete denture, 2 RPDs, 16 ext, 8 SRP, and 4 teeth endo. very little but you can always do more.

 

[AONLINE]

Requirements for our school are 10 class 2, 5 class III, 6 crowns,5 arches of complete denture, 2 RPDs, 16 ext, 8 SRP, and 4 teeth endo. very little but you can always do more.

Yeah our requirement is quite similar to yours

 

[Incis0r]

I’m not worried yet - we will have to very work hard when we get back, but as long as this ends soon, it is still possible to have things work out.

However, since CODA is not being as flexible to our class (compared to the D4s), we definitely have an uphill battle.

 

[AONLINE]

I start to feel paranoid from reading this thread, but I try to look on the bright side: yes the experiences we get in dental school might be affected but at least we are sheltered from the real world until May 2021. When we graduate things might be back close to normal in term of jobs and the economy. I feel very sorry for the D4's who have not secured a job offer at this point or those that have job offers fall through due to the pandemic. I hope things will turn out better for them soon.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

I start to feel paranoid from reading this thread, but I try to look on the bright side: yes the experiences we get in dental school might be affected but at least we are sheltered from the real world until May 2021. When we graduate things might be back close to normal in term of jobs and the economy. I feel very sorry for the D4's who have not secured a job offer at this point or those that have job offers fall through due to the pandemic. I hope things will turn out better for them soon.

I feel even the D4 who have the job offers already will be affected. Everyone is affected. Yes, you are correct that you are protected until May 2021 but a lot of other things are at stake here. You go to dental school for clinical experiences. Now clinic is in the air and nothing is known, it is scary.

Given the second wave prediction and how different organizations are arguing about moving away from live-patient based, I do not know how the WREB ADEX can carry out their examination. So far, not all states agree to accept the non-patient based.

 

[Anondds87]

I feel even the D4 who have the job offers already will be affected. Everyone is affected. Yes, you are correct that you are protected until May 2021 but a lot of other things are at stake here. You go to dental school for clinical experiences. Now clinic is in the air and nothing is known, it is scary.

Given the second wave prediction and how different organizations are arguing about moving away from live-patient based, I do not know how the WREB ADEX can carry out their examination. So far, not all states agree to accept the non-patient based.

You are at dental school to get the degree above all else. Honestly, the amount of clinical experience you get in dental school is insignificant in the long run. Once you graduate you will do all your school quotas in a few months of working.
It's a good time to be in school - you arent missing out on wages, it's going to be a terrible job market for a year or so, missing out of dental school clinical time is much better than missing out on dentist clinic time.

The only negative is is they possibly delay your graduation - I'm not sure if that will happen or not. I doubt it as they will want to get the new class started and will want to get you out

 

[sw99]

Looks like there could be no clinic until August. Dental boards likely not going to accept a non-live patient exam. Anyone else worried about what this could mean for graduating on time and fall interviews for residencies?

Online school ftw

 

[Sweet_Tooth]

You are at dental school to get the degree above all else. Honestly, the amount of clinical experience you get in dental school is insignificant in the long run. Once you graduate you will do all your school quotas in a few months of working.
It's a good time to be in school - you arent missing out on wages, it's going to be a terrible job market for a year or so, missing out of dental school clinical time is much better than missing out on dentist clinic time.

The only negative is is they possibly delay your graduation - I'm not sure if that will happen or not. I doubt it as they will want to get the new class started and will want to get you out

But you still need some sort of stable foundation to build your post graduation learning off of too....and isn't it a contradiction to say the job market will be terrible when we graduate, yet also say that we will fulfill our school quotas within just a few months of graduation?

I know the grass always seems greener on the other side, but the timing of this pandemic is bad for students too. Students on tight time schedules and students who were in the middle of their education, who were still in the process of honing their skill sets. At least graduated dentists have an already developed skill set that won't fall to the wayside during quarantine.

 

[Anondds87]

But you still need some sort of stable foundation to build your post graduation learning off of too....and isn't it a contradiction to say the job market will be terrible when we graduate, yet also say that we will fulfill our school quotas within just a few months of graduation?

I know the grass always seems greener on the other side, but the timing of this pandemic is bad for students too. Students on tight time schedules and students who were in the middle of their education, who were still in the process of honing their skill sets. At least graduated dentists have an already developed skill set that won't fall to the wayside during quarantine.

No contraindication - the job market is terrible now but I imagine it will be much better in a year or so (I'm referring to people in third year now). So because of that I think it's a great time to be studying.

I can see your point of honing your skills in dental school but come on... you only do a handful of procedures, theres only so much you can learn. I think the important thing to learn is what a good job looks like - etc what a good rct looks like - and you can figure out your own way to get to that standard.

Yes I agree it's a bad thing for students, but I would WAY rather be in school now than graduated.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Not worried.

 

[allDAT]

A 5th year is likely on the horizon if regulations prevent the clinics from being scheduled to capacity - either that or they’ll have to cut down the class sizes but they won’t do that.

It’s out of your hands right now. Try not to stress. If you have downtime, start an online business now (you’ll be glad you did later).

 

[deleted972255]

A 5th year is likely on the horizon if regulations prevent the clinics from being scheduled to capacity - either that or they’ll have to cut down the class sizes but they won’t do that.

It’s out of your hands right now. Try not to stress. If you have downtime, start an online business now (you’ll be glad you did later).

Lol yeah right, no chance of a 5th year. At most, they will make us come in on weekends and evenings (my school said to expect this already), and create more shifts to allow greater distancing between patients in clinic. Also, breaks might be shortened.
If enough patients don't come in, they will probably also adjust requirements and make some of them be done on typodonts or virtually.

 

[allDAT]

Lol yeah right, no chance of a 5th year. At most, they will make us come in on weekends and evenings (my school said to expect this already), and create more shifts to allow greater distancing between patients in clinic.
If enough patients don't come in, they will probably also adjust requirements and make some of them be done on typodonts or virtually.

Sure. Many schools used to be 3 years. Now UOP is the only one left. I bet we see a move to 5 in the next few years if we can’t get this cleaned up. Hard to switch current students to a longer program but you can do it to an incoming D1 class.

 

[allDAT]

Lol yeah right, no chance of a 5th year. At most, they will make us come in on weekends and evenings (my school said to expect this already), and create more shifts to allow greater distancing between patients in clinic. Also, breaks might be shortened.
If enough patients don't come in, they will probably also adjust requirements and make some of them be done on typodonts or virtually.

And that’s great that they made the switch to typodont competencies. Unfortunate that’s the education your paid for, but it’s good that you can get out of there. Less patients and more typodonts isn’t good for our profession, but I would like to see the live patient exams removed from circulation.

 

[deleted903013]

I bet we see a move to 5 in the next few years if we can’t get this cleaned up. Hard to switch current students to a longer program but you can do it to an incoming D1 class.

If that happens though schools would have to drastically lower their costs. Imagine paying an extra year for a school like NYU.

 

[allDAT]

If that happens though schools would have to drastically lower their costs. Imagine paying an extra year for a school like NYU.

Prices will continue to rise. There’s still more students applying than there are seats and they have access to capital via the fed, regardless of creditworthiness. It’s a crap system. Tuitions tend to rise during a recession, so that won’t be a surprise.

I’m not sure how deep the pipeline is for pre-dents or how long it will take for the supply/demand to become more balanced.

 

[deleted972255]

If that happens though schools would have to drastically lower their costs. Imagine paying an extra year for a school like NYU.

Prices would probably not lower, would just go up. I wish I had gone to dental school 10 years ago, then the prices were a little more reasonable. I think eventually, once a critical mass/percentage of people in dentistry start defaulting on student loan repayment, then there will a bust. There was a bust in dental admission in the 1980s where a bunch of schools shut down. That will eventually happen again.

Much of life is cyclical. Just look at the stock market-there is a major downturn roughly every 10-15 yrs.

 

[deleted903013]

Prices would probably not lower, would just go up. I wish I had gone to dental school 10 years ago, then the prices were a little more reasonable. I think eventually, once a critical mass/percentage of people in dentistry start defaulting on student loan repayment, then there will a bust. There was a bust in dental admission in the 1980s where a bunch of schools shut down. That will eventually happen again.

Much of life is cyclical. Just look at the stock market-there is a major downturn roughly every 10-15 yrs.

I'm just hoping if they add a fifth year they won't do it to current students. There's no way I would have gone to dental school if it would have meant paying for a fifth year. The only bright side is it would make the higher education bubble burst sooner.

 

[AONLINE]

Our school talked about evening and weekend clinics and also shortened break (previously we only got 2-week break at the end of D3 year anyways). I think they are committed to not keep us any longer.

 

[Rambunctious]

Looks like there could be no clinic until August. Dental boards likely not going to accept a non-live patient exam. Anyone else worried about what this could mean for graduating on time and fall interviews for residencies?

Honestly be thankful this is happening now that you're a student and not when you're an actual dentist having to shut down their practice losing a lot of money

 

[AONLINE]

Coming back to revive this thread after a year of the pandemic. Well, it turned out that class of 2020 was not affected much since most of the class had finished their requirements when the shutdown happened in March 2020. The school gave them a free pass to graduate if they still had a few missing requirements. Most of them graduated in June 2020 and started residency or working in July 2020. Nobody is unemployed as far as I know. Class of 2021 got screwed more because the school was closed for almost 4 months and when we came back the clinic capacity was reduced by half. But we still make it to the finish line and we're set to graduate in May while the school is still refusing to reduce any clinical requirement for us. Overall the number of procedures I've done was comparable to the previous classes. Class of 2022 got screwed the most in term of clinical experiences, they spent a large portion of their D3 year assisting the D4s. I hope that once we graduate the class of 2022 will get a better clinical education in their senior year.

 

[MLC45]

Coming back to revive this thread after a year of the pandemic. Well, it turned out that class of 2020 was not affected much since most of the class had finished their requirements when the shutdown happened in March 2020. The school gave them a free pass to graduate if they still had a few missing requirements. Most of them graduated in June 2020 and started residency or working in July 2020. Nobody is unemployed as far as I know. Class of 2021 got screwed more because the school was closed for almost 4 months and when we came back the clinic capacity was reduced by half. But we still make it to the finish line and we're set to graduate in May while the school is still refusing to reduce any clinical requirement for us. Overall the number of procedures I've done was comparable to the previous classes. Class of 2022 got screwed the most in term of clinical experiences, they spent a large portion of their D3 year assisting the D4s. I hope that once we graduate the class of 2022 will get a better clinical education in their senior year.

As a current DS3 (2022) I can tell you there are a few 2021 that has to stay during the summer, but most they passed through after lowering requirements. So far I'm in the majority middle in regards to graduating credits, which is about 1/3 lower than where we should be. The bad part is many of the credits I have are from assisting or consults and not from doing actual work. It does worry me. How I'm going to pass my boards if I don't have actual clinical experience? I hope going into my 4th year I'll have patient priority and be able to make up for all I've missed this past year.

 

[deleted923283]

As a current DS3 (2022) I can tell you there are a few 2021 that has to stay during the summer, but most they passed through after lowering requirements. So far I'm in the majority middle in regards to graduating credits, which is about 1/3 lower than where we should be. The bad part is many of the credits I have are from assisting or consults and not from doing actual work. It does worry me. How I'm going to pass my boards if I don't have actual clinical experience? I hope going into my 4th year I'll have patient priority and be able to make up for all I've missed this past year.

Boards has nothing to do with patient experience now that it’s all manikin-based.

 

[Xtract]

Boards has nothing to do with patient experience now that it’s all manikin-based.

do you think it will be manikin-based for the current third years?

 

[PerioDont]

do you think it will be manikin-based for the current third years?

I would guess so. more and more states are also accepting DL-OSCE, so no drilling required at all.