Any EMR scribes in FM practice?

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DrMidlife

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So far I've seen exactly one physician (surgeon) successfully jockey his EMR during a patient encounter in such a way that the patient sitting 2 feet away isn't the lowest priority in the room. The rest either (a) suck at using their EMR or (b) have a scribe.

I'm assuming it's generally too expensive for primary care to use EMR scribes. Any counterexamples to this?
 
Any counterexamples to this?

Me. 🙂

I chart as I go using a three-step process. The "pre-visit" takes place right before I go into the exam room. I look at the reason(s) for the visit, quickly review any labs or studies, look over the vitals, and hammer out a quick "normal" note for the problem(s) I expect to address (I use a lot of quick-text and pre-defined ROS and PE macros to make this easy). In the room (the "visit"), I spend most of my time talking to or examining the patient. Our rooms are set up so I can look at my tablet PC and still maintain eye contact with the patient. I'll add a few things to the note while we talk, usually in the HPI. At the end of the visit (the "post-visit"), as the patient is heading to the check-out window, I'll update my physical exam findings (if needed) along with my assessment and plan, pre-order any labs for the next visit, and tie up any other loose ends before submitting my charges and signing off on the note. Then it's on to the next patient.

This process not only lets me get my notes done in real time, but ensures that the bulk of the data entry is done outside the exam room, not in front of the patient.

I work with scribes in the free clinic that I volunteer at, and find that they slow me down tremendously. Moreover, their notes are far inferior to what I would have written on my own. The only reason I use them is because I'm not trained on the clinic's EMR.
 
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i personally like dragon nuance although ive only used the healthcare version. the personal iphone version of dragon nuance is pretty good when i dictated a sample H&P even with the medications list. ill eventually try out the nonhealthcare version for PC and get a decent mic once i start family med; probably still be better than dictating on the phone or a having a scribe.
 
Me. 🙂

I chart as I go using a three-step process. The "pre-visit" takes place right before I go into the exam room. I look at the reason(s) for the visit, quickly review any labs or studies, look over the vitals, and hammer out a quick "normal" note for the problem(s) I expect to address (I use a lot of quick-text and pre-defined ROS and PE macros to make this easy). In the room (the "visit"), I spend most of my time talking to or examining the patient. Our rooms are set up so I can look at my tablet PC and still maintain eye contact with the patient. I'll add a few things to the note while we talk, usually in the HPI. At the end of the visit (the "post-visit"), as the patient is heading to the check-out window, I'll update my physical exam findings (if needed) along with my assessment and plan, pre-order any labs for the next visit, and tie up any other loose ends before submitting my charges and signing off on the note. Then it's on to the next patient.

This process not only lets me get my notes done in real time, but ensures that the bulk of the data entry is done outside the exam room, not in front of the patient.

I work with scribes in the free clinic that I volunteer at, and find that they slow me town tremendously. Moreover, their notes are far inferior to what I would have written on my own. The only reason I use them is because I'm not trained on the clinic's EMR.

How do you get your patient's their Meaningless(...uh, -ful) Use mandated clinical summaries?
 
How do you get your patient's their Meaningless(...uh, -ful) Use mandated clinical summaries?

They're printed at check-out, or (if the patient has signed up for our electronic portal) sent to their portal account.
 
I don't know much, but I'm thinking that we will see a software boom in this arena, making the process more efficient. During a recent preceptorship, the FP I was with rolled in a computer and sat there typing away. Seemed way too cumbersome. I'm thinking tablet when my time comes.

Have you guys seen more software entering the market? Any ways to learn about them before I will actually need them?
 
I don't know much, but I'm thinking that we will see a software boom in this arena, making the process more efficient. During a recent preceptorship, the FP I was with rolled in a computer and sat there typing away. Seemed way too cumbersome. I'm thinking tablet when my time comes.

Have you guys seen more software entering the market? Any ways to learn about them before I will actually need them?

I have seen the opposite. In the region I am in it is basically four EMRs competing, the same ones from 7 years ago when I was a medstudent...
 
I have seen the opposite. In the region I am in it is basically four EMRs competing, the same ones from 7 years ago when I was a medstudent...
Wow! That stinks. We need some young software geniuses to jump on this! Probably lots of bucks to made.
 
Wow! That stinks. We need some young software geniuses to jump on this! Probably lots of bucks to made.
The revolution you're referring to is already on its 3rd generation. Microsoft already got into and left the market over a decade ago. So did Google. There is not going to be one ring to rule them all. This is not a country that encourages one company to set a standard and have all the other companies go out of business or do what one company thinks is best.

The revolution that is happening is that 20 year olds have a much easier time learning software than 40 year olds or 60 year olds. The adjustment is huge for older physicians who started with paper charts or who invested six figures and many years in adapting to Epic or similar. The learning curve for kids who can't remember a time before the iPad is much less dramatic.

What the creative EMR companies are thinking about:
1. "Hey we need to be cloud based, get me a cloud based EMR!"
2. "Awesome, our EMR runs on the cloud! I love it!"
3. "What do you mean you can't run this on an iPad?!?!?"
4. "Get me a system that runs on an iPad!!!"
5. "Yes you can double the size of your engineering team to make an iPad version!"
6. "What do you mean it takes 18 months to hire 10 engineers?!?!?"
7. "What do you mean I don't get an Android version by funding the iPad version?!?!?"
8. "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have received new funding from Venture Capital Somebody!!!"
9. (five minutes later) "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have been purchased by GE Healthcare and we're all moving to San Ramon!!!"
 
The revolution you're referring to is already on its 3rd generation. Microsoft already got into and left the market over a decade ago. So did Google. There is not going to be one ring to rule them all. This is not a country that encourages one company to set a standard and have all the other companies go out of business or do what one company thinks is best.

The revolution that is happening is that 20 year olds have a much easier time learning software than 40 year olds or 60 year olds. The adjustment is huge for older physicians who started with paper charts or who invested six figures and many years in adapting to Epic or similar. The learning curve for kids who can't remember a time before the iPad is much less dramatic.

What the creative EMR companies are thinking about:
1. "Hey we need to be cloud based, get me a cloud based EMR!"
2. "Awesome, our EMR runs on the cloud! I love it!"
3. "What do you mean you can't run this on an iPad?!?!?"
4. "Get me a system that runs on an iPad!!!"
5. "Yes you can double the size of your engineering team to make an iPad version!"
6. "What do you mean it takes 18 months to hire 10 engineers?!?!?"
7. "What do you mean I don't get an Android version by funding the iPad version?!?!?"
8. "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have received new funding from Venture Capital Somebody!!!"
9. (five minutes later) "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have been purchased by GE Healthcare and we're all moving to San Ramon!!!"

Cool. But I was referring to you second example 😉
 
The revolution you're referring to is already on its 3rd generation. Microsoft already got into and left the market over a decade ago. So did Google. There is not going to be one ring to rule them all. This is not a country that encourages one company to set a standard and have all the other companies go out of business or do what one company thinks is best.

The revolution that is happening is that 20 year olds have a much easier time learning software than 40 year olds or 60 year olds. The adjustment is huge for older physicians who started with paper charts or who invested six figures and many years in adapting to Epic or similar. The learning curve for kids who can't remember a time before the iPad is much less dramatic.

What the creative EMR companies are thinking about:
1. "Hey we need to be cloud based, get me a cloud based EMR!"
2. "Awesome, our EMR runs on the cloud! I love it!"
3. "What do you mean you can't run this on an iPad?!?!?"
4. "Get me a system that runs on an iPad!!!"
5. "Yes you can double the size of your engineering team to make an iPad version!"
6. "What do you mean it takes 18 months to hire 10 engineers?!?!?"
7. "What do you mean I don't get an Android version by funding the iPad version?!?!?"
8. "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have received new funding from Venture Capital Somebody!!!"
9. (five minutes later) "I have an important and exciting announcement, we have been purchased by GE Healthcare and we're all moving to San Ramon!!!"
I have no idea what any of the above means and I really don't want to know. Sigh...... Feeling old. I did learn how to chart on EPIC however......
 
The EHR market has been fairly stagnant for a long time. There really hasn't been much in the way of real innovation. People can argue about what the "best" EHR is, but the reality is that they all suck. Some of them just suck less.

The smaller your practice, the more options you'll have to choose from. For large practices or groups, the field is much more narrow. Epic tends to be the choice of most hospital systems, but it's incredibly expensive. Take EHR reviews and ratings with a grain of salt. Typically, the best-ranked systems are those being used by the smallest practices (e.g., Amazing Charts). I suspect this is largely because it's easier to please a small group of people who likely made the purchase decision themselves than a large group of people who probably didn't have much direct input into the decision as to which EHR to buy.
 
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I don't know much, but I'm thinking that we will see a software boom in this arena, making the process more efficient. During a recent preceptorship, the FP I was with rolled in a computer and sat there typing away. Seemed way too cumbersome. I'm thinking tablet when my time comes.

I use a tablet with a keyboard dock.

The problem with the tablet is that 1) the EMR we use is Citrix based, and it is actually hard to use your finger to click on the appropriate checkbox than it is with a mouse. The screen shrinks down quite a bit on the tablet, and the mouse gives you more control of the screen than you have with your finger. Even a stylus is cumbersome at times.

2) I still think you need to free text SOME things. A few of our providers (MDs or NPs) do not free text anything, and their notes are atrociously bad. I mean, "barely defensible in a court of law" level of bad. But free texting on a tablet is pretty painful.
 
I use a tablet with a keyboard dock.

The problem with the tablet is that 1) the EMR we use is Citrix based, and it is actually hard to use your finger to click on the appropriate checkbox than it is with a mouse. The screen shrinks down quite a bit on the tablet, and the mouse gives you more control of the screen than you have with your finger. Even a stylus is cumbersome at times.

2) I still think you need to free text SOME things. A few of our providers (MDs or NPs) do not free text anything, and their notes are atrociously bad. I mean, "barely defensible in a court of law" level of bad. But free texting on a tablet is pretty painful.

I use a Panasonic Toughbook tablet PC. It has a swiveling screen that lets you fold it flat against the keyboard to use like a tablet, or leave open to use like a conventional laptop with a touchscreen. I never use it in tablet mode. I keep the keyboard accessible, and use a stylus when I'm on the move or in the exam room. I use the keyboard for free texting. IMO, the most important places to free text are the HPI and assessment/plan, and I make liberal use of "quick text" (basically saved macros) to make that faster. Checking boxes works for most of the ROS/PE, however, which is where the stylus comes in handy.

When I'm sitting at my desk, I use a conventional mouse instead of the stylus. I just find it a bit more convenient.
 
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