Wanting FM but worried

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

flextape

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2024
Messages
94
Reaction score
57
Hey everyone, I'm just an incoming medical student who wants FM, but I do have concerns about the field itself. As much as I love what the job entails (from what I've seen) I keep hearing so much about increasing documentation, burnout, decreasing reimbursement, and midlevel creep. There was also that new law in Tennessee that allows IMGs to bypass residency requirements and practice, though they do have different barriers, which supposedly could result in decreasing physician leverage and compensation. Given all of this, even though it's difficult to predict the future, is it still a good idea to go into this field? Thanks in advance for your advice!
 
It is still a good idea, but you are right to do your due diligence. Here's my 0.02c

Increasing documentation -- is indeed a burden depending on the person and the system used. Some people see 25pts a day and leave at 430. Others see 16 per day and have charts to do every evening. The main thing to watch soon is how AI scribing helps with this and we will likely see if it is practical and if it's a good or bad thing within the next x1-2 years. Stay tuned

Decreasing reimbursement -- right now with cuts to Medicare/Medicaid, interestingly PCPs are actually doing okay as they seem to be getting LESS cuts compared to some other specialties due to some bones being thrown our way. Point is, you still make very good money in FM, just not as much money as others--which is the way it has always been. It all comes down to how efficient you are, how many RVUs you generate, and how hard you have to work for it.

Midlevel creep -- APPs are present and gaining authority, responsibilities in all specialties. Given how in demand FM is, this isn't much of an issue for anyone I know.

Burnout -- very real. Inbox management is a massive albatross. Undifferentiated patients are hard to diagnose and manage in 20min visits or less, insurance, benign neglect or demanding abuse from admin... they are all real problems.

IMG law changes -- no way to know how this will affect things, but again I am reassured by the fact that FM is so in demand everywhere it should be hit less hard than other areas. As sad as it is to say, patients will gravitate toward American grads simply because they look and sound like them. As to how pay will be affected, TBD...

Other things to consider: do you want to see OB/women? Peds? If no, but still want to do primary care go into IM.
 
It is still a good idea, but you are right to do your due diligence. Here's my 0.02c

Increasing documentation -- is indeed a burden depending on the person and the system used. Some people see 25pts a day and leave at 430. Others see 16 per day and have charts to do every evening. The main thing to watch soon is how AI scribing helps with this and we will likely see if it is practical and if it's a good or bad thing within the next x1-2 years. Stay tuned

Decreasing reimbursement -- right now with cuts to Medicare/Medicaid, interestingly PCPs are actually doing okay as they seem to be getting LESS cuts compared to some other specialties due to some bones being thrown our way. Point is, you still make very good money in FM, just not as much money as others--which is the way it has always been. It all comes down to how efficient you are, how many RVUs you generate, and how hard you have to work for it.

Midlevel creep -- APPs are present and gaining authority, responsibilities in all specialties. Given how in demand FM is, this isn't much of an issue for anyone I know.

Burnout -- very real. Inbox management is a massive albatross. Undifferentiated patients are hard to diagnose and manage in 20min visits or less, insurance, benign neglect or demanding abuse from admin... they are all real problems.

IMG law changes -- no way to know how this will affect things, but again I am reassured by the fact that FM is so in demand everywhere it should be hit less hard than other areas. As sad as it is to say, patients will gravitate toward American grads simply because they look and sound like them. As to how pay will be affected, TBD...

Other things to consider: do you want to see OB/women? Peds? If no, but still want to do primary care go into IM.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up, this was really helpful!
 
It is still a good idea, but you are right to do your due diligence. Here's my 0.02c

Increasing documentation -- is indeed a burden depending on the person and the system used. Some people see 25pts a day and leave at 430. Others see 16 per day and have charts to do every evening. The main thing to watch soon is how AI scribing helps with this and we will likely see if it is practical and if it's a good or bad thing within the next x1-2 years. Stay tuned

Decreasing reimbursement -- right now with cuts to Medicare/Medicaid, interestingly PCPs are actually doing okay as they seem to be getting LESS cuts compared to some other specialties due to some bones being thrown our way. Point is, you still make very good money in FM, just not as much money as others--which is the way it has always been. It all comes down to how efficient you are, how many RVUs you generate, and how hard you have to work for it.

Midlevel creep -- APPs are present and gaining authority, responsibilities in all specialties. Given how in demand FM is, this isn't much of an issue for anyone I know.

Burnout -- very real. Inbox management is a massive albatross. Undifferentiated patients are hard to diagnose and manage in 20min visits or less, insurance, benign neglect or demanding abuse from admin... they are all real problems.

IMG law changes -- no way to know how this will affect things, but again I am reassured by the fact that FM is so in demand everywhere it should be hit less hard than other areas. As sad as it is to say, patients will gravitate toward American grads simply because they look and sound like them. As to how pay will be affected, TBD...

Other things to consider: do you want to see OB/women? Peds? If no, but still want to do primary care go into IM.
I would push back slightly against the IM for primary care part only because our job market for outpatient primary care is better than it is for IM generally speaking.

This isn't universally true everywhere but its definitely true in many places.
 
Been out here in the trenches for 15 years now. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH FP's out there to fill the need. I see at least 10 people a day in urgent care who do not have PCP's. As long as you don't try to practice in a saturated market (large cities) you can be super busy all the time and see as many people and make as much money as you want if you are smart and hook yourself up with the right contract.
 
Been out here in the trenches for 15 years now. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH FP's out there to fill the need. .... you can be super busy all the time and see as many people and make as much money as you want if you are smart and hook yourself up with the right contract.
As someone looking at a career change soon, could you elaborate on what constitutes a good contract in the clinic world? For background I'm coming from EM/hospital based->fellowship->sports med/FM clinic. I know what my last few hospital contracts have looked like, and I'm comfortable in looking at pph and benefits for us in the hospital, but what makes you feel good about a contract in the clinics? Are you looking at staff numbers, specialty support, hours, pt/hr, rvu bonuses, etc? What would make you turn away from a job contract wise? Sorry about a little bit of a side bar, I can start a new thread if it's better?
 
As someone looking at a career change soon, could you elaborate on what constitutes a good contract in the clinic world? For background I'm coming from EM/hospital based->fellowship->sports med/FM clinic. I know what my last few hospital contracts have looked like, and I'm comfortable in looking at pph and benefits for us in the hospital, but what makes you feel good about a contract in the clinics? Are you looking at staff numbers, specialty support, hours, pt/hr, rvu bonuses, etc? What would make you turn away from a job contract wise? Sorry about a little bit of a side bar, I can start a new thread if it's better?
Highly suggest you check out similar posts on r/familymedicine subreddit. They have x2-4 "rate my contract" posts daily.
 
I would push back slightly against the IM for primary care part only because our job market for outpatient primary care is better than it is for IM generally speaking.

This isn't universally true everywhere but its definitely true in many places.
I mean, sure, I agree. IM is not as outpatient focused. But if you're FM while every place you go may not expect OB care, they will expect you to see peds and will give you funny looks if you say no.
 
As someone looking at a career change soon, could you elaborate on what constitutes a good contract in the clinic world? For background I'm coming from EM/hospital based->fellowship->sports med/FM clinic. I know what my last few hospital contracts have looked like, and I'm comfortable in looking at pph and benefits for us in the hospital, but what makes you feel good about a contract in the clinics? Are you looking at staff numbers, specialty support, hours, pt/hr, rvu bonuses, etc? What would make you turn away from a job contract wise? Sorry about a little bit of a side bar, I can start a new thread if it's better?
I'm looking at base pay + RVU bonus capability. TIme off. What is your schedule? CME/license/DEA reimbursement. Do you have to do telehealth? Are you on call?
 
I mean, sure, I agree. IM is not as outpatient focused. But if you're FM while every place you go may not expect OB care, they will expect you to see peds and will give you funny looks if you say no.
We've got probably 10 FPs in my group that don't see anyone under 16 and that many again who won't see under 6.
 
We've got probably 10 FPs in my group that don't see anyone under 16 and that many again who won't see under 6.
I'm finishing up FM residency and the clinic I signed with said pretty much no peds since there are so many pediatricians at the same location
 
I'm finishing up FM residency and the clinic I signed with said pretty much no peds since there are so many pediatricians at the same location
It's usually a cost of vaccines thing. Most childhood vaccines are incredibly expensive and they don't last forever. So if you don't have a pretty solid pediatric population, you will lose a shocking amount of money when those things expire.
 
Non academic FP rarely sees kids where I've worked (Philly + NYC) though some practices do, often multispecialty ones that also have pediatricians (so they can share vaccines).

The reason I would consider FM over IM is not because of the job market, which I think is close enough to not make a meaningful difference , but because the average IM program does not reliably prepare you for outpatient practice unless you put in some extra work to get the right electives like basic gyn. Obviously there are exceptions to this and I myself am a mostly outpatient internist but it's something to consider.

Of course if you're considering sub specializing or being a hospitalist then IM will serve you better.
 
I second everyone else. I am general IM. An outpatient internist is a dying breed. Very niche. You see this really only in tertiary academic places or the east coast (dunno why PA and NYC do this)

In my neck of the woods (Midwest) job market better for FM. IM residency does not prepare you for clinic.

Don’t listen to naysayers about PCP future. It is bright
Read about ACO contracts, we are the only reason the hospital saves money. The arc of justice for us will eventually** bend
 
Top