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anyone know where i can find how many of the graduating class match into a us residency from caribean schools?
also what happens to those who dont match?
also what happens to those who dont match?
Any list of caribean school match lists or at least match percentages?
- Thread starter ponybreeder4
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There is a carribean subsection as a part of this forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=90
Alternatively, I believe www.valuemd.com is a forum frequented by some carribean students.
Alternatively, I believe www.valuemd.com is a forum frequented by some carribean students.
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https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1
really doesnt look bad!
really doesnt look bad!
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Look more closely.
You'll see that:
a) Many of those residencies are at backwater, hell-hole facilities (Anybody who lives in Ca will recognize positions in places like Bakersfield, Moreno Valley, Riverside, etc.)
b) Many of them are prelim, rather than categorical. Basically try-outs for a spot in that program, rather than actual spots.
c) Moderately competitive specialties are poorly represented.
Also, remember that those who don't list, aren't mentioned. This year around 83% of their class matched. If the combined classes (August + Jan) amount to around 700-800, that's around 130 people (The size of an entire class at some US schools) that are now 250K in debt and have no residency to show for it...
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they still have a huge attrition rate
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Why else would you go? It costs as much as most private institutions in the US and twice as much as most state schools and the match rates, especially in anything remotely competitive, are piss poor compared to US schools.
Graduates from Caribbean schools have virtually no chances at moderately to highly competitive residencies, and are fighting uphill battle in getting noncompetitive residencies.
Keep in mind that even if you land a noncompetitive residency at a lousy place, it will put you at a distinct disadvantage in competing for fellowships and eventually jobs. The fact that you are not a US MD grad affects large part of your career. You will be looked down upon for a decade, until you somehow prove yourself.
Faced a choice of American MD vs something else, after some deliberation I would choose something else. Caribbean MD vs something else is a no brainer.
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It is still very difficult to get a US residency, however, you won't be looked down upon when you do.
Typically it's MORE liability. There are many brilliant IMGs. However, an average IMG will have harder time matching to residency of his/her choice than average caribbean.
The above applies to IMGs from Asia, South and Latin America, and continental Europe. I don't know about Brits and the Irish, because there are so few of them.
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Believe it or no, some people might want the letters MD after their name.
To address the original question, yes the numbers aren't as good as far as match percentages from a caribbean school as they are from a U.S. school. However, there is good reason for this, there is a natural preference for US students for US residencies.
the carib schools tend to accept anyone who wants to go to medical school, that said, to stay at a carib school means you have to work extra hard to stay in. In US schools, once you're accepted you stand little chance of failing out. Therefore, graduating from a carib school means you've actually proved yourself and for those unfortunate for w/e reason fail out. the "big four" carib schools are known to produce doctors with great board scores and clinical skills, since carib students are constantly under pressure to perform at their best.
someone said earlier it's better to come from ireland, i disagree, a lot of carib students do their clinical rotations in US hospitals getting United states clinical experience (USCE) that other IMGs don't get. Adding to that, carib students are taught US medicine not carib medicine or irish medicine, all the coursework is geared toward the important topics of the USMLE, this includes taking NBME shelves after all subjects, and as said earlier a high fail out rate which weeds out those not qualified.
If you look at SGU or Ross match stats, it's clear that if you work hard enough, ace the boards, and other important characteristics such as likability etc, there is no stopping anyone from becoming that doctor they wanted to be.
Having said all this, I agree apply to US schools, then consider the carib only if you know that the reason you didn't get accepted into US schools was b/c of undergrad and now you are ready to give it your all.
Also only go to the top carib schools, your options later will be better...
the carib schools tend to accept anyone who wants to go to medical school, that said, to stay at a carib school means you have to work extra hard to stay in. In US schools, once you're accepted you stand little chance of failing out. Therefore, graduating from a carib school means you've actually proved yourself and for those unfortunate for w/e reason fail out. the "big four" carib schools are known to produce doctors with great board scores and clinical skills, since carib students are constantly under pressure to perform at their best.
someone said earlier it's better to come from ireland, i disagree, a lot of carib students do their clinical rotations in US hospitals getting United states clinical experience (USCE) that other IMGs don't get. Adding to that, carib students are taught US medicine not carib medicine or irish medicine, all the coursework is geared toward the important topics of the USMLE, this includes taking NBME shelves after all subjects, and as said earlier a high fail out rate which weeds out those not qualified.
If you look at SGU or Ross match stats, it's clear that if you work hard enough, ace the boards, and other important characteristics such as likability etc, there is no stopping anyone from becoming that doctor they wanted to be.
Having said all this, I agree apply to US schools, then consider the carib only if you know that the reason you didn't get accepted into US schools was b/c of undergrad and now you are ready to give it your all.
Also only go to the top carib schools, your options later will be better...
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Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
That's impressive... I'll just address a few points (some of this is from the post I linked above):
A trend in the match at the moment (which will only get worse as Allopathic class sizes increase) is the number of foreign (carib) and DO grads that are not matching into MD residencies.
This year 93% of US MD grads matched.
70% of US DO grads that applied for the MD Match matched.
48% of Students from Carib or other Foreign Schools matched.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf
USMD 93.1% (-)1.1% from last year
USDO 69.9% (-)1.7% from last year
USIMG 47.8% (-)4.1% from last year
As noted above, DO students have the option to match into their own match. This means that if the MD match eventually becomes prohibitively competitive for US DOs, they will still have an alternative, while foreign MDs will not have any fallback.
Another issue is that DO schools tend to have attrition rates on par with MD schools, roughly 95% of the entering class will graduate. Carib schools will start with a very large class that gets much smaller throughout the first two years. You must pass their qualifying exam in order to take the USMLE, then you must pass the USMLE to move on to clerkships. There are a lot of points where you can be pruned out along the way. Once you do get to clerkships, a lot of the legwork is left to you. The school may have some hospitals that have agreed to accept their students, but it is up to you to work out the nitty-gritty details of when you get to rotate through.
Finally, there's the subjective issue of accreditation. US Allo schools are accredited by LCME and US DO schools are accredited by the AACOM. Foreign medical schools may carry some accreditation by the WHO, but this is not as standardized as the LCME and AACOM accreditation. Part of the issue with residency match is that the USMLE is just a single gauge of one's training. It doesn't include the standardization of the curriculum that the LCME or AACOM accreditation assures. This may be why US DOs are matching in higher percentages than Carib MD grads.
That's impressive... I'll just address a few points (some of this is from the post I linked above):
A trend in the match at the moment (which will only get worse as Allopathic class sizes increase) is the number of foreign (carib) and DO grads that are not matching into MD residencies.
This year 93% of US MD grads matched.
70% of US DO grads that applied for the MD Match matched.
48% of Students from Carib or other Foreign Schools matched.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf
USMD 93.1% (-)1.1% from last year
USDO 69.9% (-)1.7% from last year
USIMG 47.8% (-)4.1% from last year
As noted above, DO students have the option to match into their own match. This means that if the MD match eventually becomes prohibitively competitive for US DOs, they will still have an alternative, while foreign MDs will not have any fallback.
Another issue is that DO schools tend to have attrition rates on par with MD schools, roughly 95% of the entering class will graduate. Carib schools will start with a very large class that gets much smaller throughout the first two years. You must pass their qualifying exam in order to take the USMLE, then you must pass the USMLE to move on to clerkships. There are a lot of points where you can be pruned out along the way. Once you do get to clerkships, a lot of the legwork is left to you. The school may have some hospitals that have agreed to accept their students, but it is up to you to work out the nitty-gritty details of when you get to rotate through.
Finally, there's the subjective issue of accreditation. US Allo schools are accredited by LCME and US DO schools are accredited by the AACOM. Foreign medical schools may carry some accreditation by the WHO, but this is not as standardized as the LCME and AACOM accreditation. Part of the issue with residency match is that the USMLE is just a single gauge of one's training. It doesn't include the standardization of the curriculum that the LCME or AACOM accreditation assures. This may be why US DOs are matching in higher percentages than Carib MD grads.
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I assume you're talking about non-big 4 (St. George's, American University of the Caribbean, Ross, and SABA). St. George's average stats are 3.4 and a 27 MCAT, on par with DO schools.
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Hey great job for you first post.....and I fully agree. If I were ever to go carib then it would only be Ross or SGU and definite hell no to the rest (except maybe AUC). SGU paid $100 million for an exclusive NY contract to guarantee residency spots for most of their grads.
If you crush step I and get good lor's then I don't see the carib stigma holding you back, it only makes the incline a little steeper.
To me personally, the percent students matched isn't nearly as important as where they matched. Graduating from a Caribbean school leaves you with virtually no chance of matching into a decent (even non-competitive) residency. I can't understand why anyone would choose this option. It's a huge risk.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you meant to say clerkships not residency. They paid a ****load of money so their 3rd and 4th year students can rotate in NY hospitals, not have guaranteed positions in hospitals post-graduation. That is left up to the match.
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Right, but if you check out the number and location of their residency placements in the past, you'll see that by doing so they're effectively securing residencies.
