Any med students have a side business?

[Status Sciaticus]

Hello everyone,

While I am a pre-med currently, I will be starting my first year this august.

Im also in the process of having a business incorporated and in talks with VCs regarding rounds of financing to get that business started.

I wanted to know if any of you med students actually had a small side business or passive income that you were/are involved with while enrolled.


Thanks.

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[Say]

Just because everyone will be curious, what kind of business are we talking about? What type of contributions will you have to make to this business?

 

[sinombre]

I can't imagine having the time to run a business while in school... but I guess it depends what the job entails. I'm curious to see if anyone has any experience with this.

 

[Shjanzey]

If it involves VC that is some serious business. Making it viable would require serious commitment. I did this after graduating and was easily sinking 80 hours a week to make it work. Honestly I don't see it happening unless you have some solid business partners that don't mind you doing comparatively little of the work. When I say comparatively little, I mean your 20 hours a week versus their 80 hours a week. Resentment builds up fast in such a situation. I guarantee those hours would be mandatory, because Venture Capital demands a return on their investment.

 

[NickNaylor]

Probably not possible but everyone is different. I do know of some people that were able to invest significant time (-40 hours/week) during the preclinical years and still do well. However, they were the exception rather than the rule, and as mentioned above there's no guarantee that you wouldn't have to work more than that.

 

[maxxor]

I did freelance webdev, graphic design, and programming on the side throughout med school to pay for books and to keep my skills up.

I would not imagine you will have the time to run a funded company on the side. Some sort of life-style boot-strapping thing, sure.

 

[BurghStudent]

It depends on if your classes are pass/fail, and mandatory/optional.

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Just because everyone will be curious, what kind of business are we talking about? What type of contributions will you have to make to this business?

Its a mobile trivia app that will be launched on iOS... initially at least.
The company wont have any actual employees other than myself. Its main purpose is to sell the app, not to create the product itself.

The coding/design/sound/UI will be outsourced to a third party, thus effectively reducing any significant time commitment.

The revenue is obviously going to be variable but the milestone goal is to hit 1 million downloads with 150,000 active users within the year.
Based on the current ad rates, it should average 150-250/day. once it hits 100K users.

 

[fungusman]

Dear Gandalf: I have been on and off SDN this past year since applying for Fall 2014. You have been one of the most obnoxious and egocentric posters--and I am certain your online persona belies how much worse you are in real person. I sincerely hope you undergo a personality transplant more suited to the selfless service of a physician. Alas, my hopes are in vain, for UT Southwestern must be full of wizards like you.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Dear Gandalf: I have been on and off SDN this past year since applying for Fall 2014. You have been one of the most obnoxious and egocentric posters--and I am certain your online persona belies how much worse you are in real person. I sincerely hope you undergo a personality transplant more suited to the selfless service of a physician. Alas, my hopes are in vain, for UT Southwestern must be full of wizards like you.

I'm guessing you have your reasons, but this is weird. Personal attacks can get you banned, if you care about that sort of thing.

 

[DermViser]

Dear Gandalf: I have been on and off SDN this past year since applying for Fall 2014. You have been one of the most obnoxious and egocentric posters--and I am certain your online persona belies how much worse you are in real person. I sincerely hope you undergo a personality transplant more suited to the selfless service of a physician. Alas, my hopes are in vain, for UT Southwestern must be full of wizards like you.

Seriously what is wrong with you for calling out a user?

 

[tdram]

I tried to run a small online business with three partners in medical school and it didn't turn out well. We also had an investment from a venture capitalist.

My partners were working full time and even though I talked to them at the beginning and told them I wouldn't be able to put in even close to as much time, and we all agreed to this (including the venture capitalist), as time went on they become more and more unhappy that I wasn't pulling my share. I was really struggling to keep up with the work I had for school, and the work I had for them. It resulted in some pretty bad grades and a very low step 1 score.

The VC wanted me to quit med school and work full time. When I wouldn't do that she pushed them to fire me, which they did, and because of our prolonged vesting schedule, I was left with a very tiny piece of the company (worth almost nothing) after having put in so much work and sacrificed my grades.

It was probably the worst decision I made, and the effects of it are going to last a while.

 

[repititionition]

Incoming MS1 with a funded company and another one percolating with VC interest.

tdram's story is real. VC's do not care about you.

if you want to do this, (and it is very possible, despite what others here have said), a couple pieces of advice:

1 - don't take the VC money. do a friends/family/insider round, even if it means 1/4 to 1/2 the money. I will never take VC money again. Any idea good enough to get funded is good enough to build on your own or with a trusted partner and CONTROL. When you take money, you lose control -- that's what the VC is buying. Remember: they're not just "giving" you money; you're selling a piece of your company/idea.

1a - If this is your first rodeo, read this: http://www.amazon.com/Venture-Deals-Smarter-Lawyer-Capitalist/dp/1118443616

2 - if you have any partners, get independent counsel for EVERYTHING you put your name to, and DO NOT SKIMP on the quality of the lawyer

3 - many schools - for whatever reason - are breeding grounds for entrepreneurs. Albany, for some strange reason, is one (disclosure: I will not be attending Albany), so network hard upon arrival. Don't be shy or embarrassed to have "something else" besides clinical medicine going on. These people can be a great network, especially if your idea has clinical relevance.

4 - the question about passive income is a different one: if it's truly passive, you are providing capital, not labor or IP (and I also have a passive income stream)

 

[jakeislove]

Does accumulating massive, soul-crushing debt count as a side business?

 

[repititionition]

Its a mobile trivia app that will be launched on iOS... initially at least.
The company wont have any actual employees other than myself. Its main purpose is to sell the app, not to create the product itself.

The coding/design/sound/UI will be outsourced to a third party, thus effectively reducing any significant time commitment.

The revenue is obviously going to be variable but the milestone goal is to hit 1 million downloads with 150,000 active users within the year.
Based on the current ad rates, it should average 150-250/day. once it hits 100K users.

PS - I see no protectable IP, nor any direct strategic leadership, nor any executive capacity.

"The coding/design/sound/UI will be outsourced to a third party"

... so enjoy getting your shorts ripped off on this one.

Not hating, just saying, "When you don't know who the sucker is at the table, it's you."

 

[Status Sciaticus]

PS - I see no protectable IP, nor any direct strategic leadership, nor any executive capacity.

"The coding/design/sound/UI will be outsourced to a third party"

... so enjoy getting your shorts ripped off on this one.

Not hating, just saying, "When you don't know who the sucker is at the table, it's you."

Regarding the protectable IP, its under contract that my corp will get the original source code.
I've kept the details on here to a minimum because the issue i want to discuss isnt the viability of the venture, but rather the possibility of executing it while in medical school.

It seems the general consensus is to avoid VC financing and opt for informal seeding.

Dear Gandalf: I have been on and off SDN this past year since applying for Fall 2014. You have been one of the most obnoxious and egocentric posters--and I am certain your online persona belies how much worse you are in real person. I sincerely hope you undergo a personality transplant more suited to the selfless service of a physician. Alas, my hopes are in vain, for UT Southwestern must be full of wizards like you.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Its a mobile trivia app that will be launched on iOS... initially at least.
The company wont have any actual employees other than myself. Its main purpose is to sell the app, not to create the product itself.

The coding/design/sound/UI will be outsourced to a third party, thus effectively reducing any significant time commitment.

The revenue is obviously going to be variable but the milestone goal is to hit 1 million downloads with 150,000 active users within the year.
Based on the current ad rates, it should average 150-250/day. once it hits 100K users.

I certainly understand interests outside of medicine, and I understand the desire to make money. But personally, I would be unlikely to start a side business during medical school if it involved any immediate time/energy/money. You will have all of those things later if you graduate, and none of them for the next seven years.

I apologize for my cynicism, but from the sounds of things, I don't get why you would do this. There are many, many trivia apps, and I have yet to see one with more than 30,000 ratings. Even assuming an abysmal rate of user ratings your numbers seem optimistic without fantastic quality.

I may not be a particularly informed audience, but your situation seems fairly undesirable to me. It sounds like you have little control over the quality of the game, what the game will look like, and the experience of playing it (things that minor details like coding and design will control). The only things you seem to have in abundance are cost and risk.

It may not be the best scale, but I would be unlikely to invest in something where the important people are so difficult to find and strangle. If I can't choke you and make you suffer when you screw up my investment, I'm not really interested in said investment.

 

[tdram]

The viability of the business aside, the issue for me was that running my business and being a medical student were both more than full-time jobs. I just didn't have the time or the flexibility in my schedule that I needed.

It wasn't so bad in 2nd year because I could skip classes to make it to meetings and conference calls. It was really hard in 3rd year, because you can't just leave for a meeting in the middle of the day anymore. My partners didn't understand because they weren't medical people. The VC couldn't care less that I was a med student. If she called, we were all expected to drop whatever we were doing and answer. I ended up disappearing a lot on the wards or showing up late because I was on a call. I was always looking to see when no one was paying attention so I could slip away and negotiate a deal in the hospital hallway. Residents were often looking for me. I missed a lot of learning opportunities. That also (obviously) didn't go over well with my evaluations. It didn't go over well with my partners either, because I was late getting work done for them as well. It was really really stressful right before exams when I was already extremely behind in studying, and still had a ton of business work to get through.

There were other issues too apart from time constraints. I had a hard time separating my business and med school, especially because business hours and med school hours overlap. I was constantly distracted by emails, texts, calls, etc all day long. I was constantly distracted by thinking about what I was going to do about whatever issue the business was facing today that became my responsibility. That's the other thing- startup business is unpredictable. Honestly, it was a lot like a roller coaster ride. One day things would be going smoothly and great, and the next day there would be a crisis. This doesn't work well with medical school at all.

My partners and VC were upset and were harrassing me all the time. When we started, everybody was nice and happy, but it went south fast. Things got pretty ugly. I'm currently in the process of suing them and I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on a lawyer plus even more of my time after I got fired.

Your experience may be completely different, I just want to share mine so you know what the bad side looks like.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I certainly understand interests outside of medicine, and I understand the desire to make money. But personally, I would be unlikely to start a side business during medical school if it involved any immediate time/energy/money. You will have all of those things later if you graduate, and none of them for the next seven years.

I apologize for my cynicism, but from the sounds of things, I don't get why you would do this. There are many, many trivia apps, and I have yet to see one with more than 30,000 ratings. Even assuming an abysmal rate of user ratings your numbers seem optimistic without fantastic quality.

I may not be a particularly informed audience, but your situation seems fairly undesirable to me. It sounds like you have little control over the quality of the game, what the game will look like, and the experience of playing it (things that minor details like coding and design will control). The only things you seem to have in abundance are cost and risk.

It may not be the best scale, but I would be unlikely to invest in something where the important people are so difficult to find and strangle. If I can't choke you and make you suffer when you screw up my investment, I'm not really interested in said investment.

Well two trivia apps that have over 30k are quizcross and quizup.

Regarding the quality/looks/experience, the company I am working with is in the same city as my medical school and contracted on a flat fee upon satisfactory delivery of said product.

I guess I am failing to see why it would be time consuming if all I am doing is using investment funds to have someone else do the work and just have a weekly meeting with them on the progress of the app.

The viability of the business aside, the issue for me was that running my business and being a medical student were both more than full-time jobs. I just didn't have the time or the flexibility in my schedule that I needed.

It wasn't so bad in 2nd year because I could skip classes to make it to meetings and conference calls. It was really hard in 3rd year, because you can't just leave for a meeting in the middle of the day anymore. My partners didn't understand because they weren't medical people. The VC couldn't care less that I was a med student. If she called, we were all expected to drop whatever we were doing and answer. I ended up disappearing a lot on the wards or showing up late because I was on a call. I was always looking to see when no one was paying attention so I could slip away and negotiate a deal in the hospital hallway. Residents were often looking for me. I missed a lot of learning opportunities. That also (obviously) didn't go over well with my evaluations. It didn't go over well with my partners either, because I was late getting work done for them as well. It was really really stressful right before exams when I was already extremely behind in studying, and still had a ton of business work to get through.

There were other issues too apart from time constraints. I had a hard time separating my business and med school, especially because business hours and med school hours overlap. I was constantly distracted by emails, texts, calls, etc all day long. I was constantly distracted by thinking about what I was going to do about whatever issue the business was facing today that became my responsibility. That's the other thing- startup business is unpredictable. Honestly, it was a lot like a roller coaster ride. One day things would be going smoothly and great, and the next day there would be a crisis. This doesn't work well with medical school at all.

My partners and VC were upset and were harrassing me all the time. When we started, everybody was nice and happy, but it went south fast. Things got pretty ugly. I'm currently in the process of suing them and I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on a lawyer plus even more of my time after I got fired.

Your experience may be completely different, I just want to share mine so you know what the bad side looks like.

thanks for your story. it definitely will help me factor in if i want to ultimately pursue this.

 

[PL198]

You gotta go all in to either med school or your business, if you want it to be successful enough to be your livelihood. In my opinion, these things are like that, if you half and half your business, it won't get anywhere rather than someone who might think "well I'll put in a little effort and have acceptable yield." Doesn't work like that from my experience.

 

[tdram]

Absolutely,

After all this, I'm not even sure I can put this business on my CV or talk about it at interviews because our clients were mostly underground hip hop artists with unsavory lyrics and our sponsors were businesses that make money off of ad revenue from pictures of scantily clad women.

 

[repititionition]

Well two trivia apps that have over 30k are quizcross and quizup.

Regarding the quality/looks/experience, the company I am working with is in the same city as my medical school and contracted on a flat fee upon satisfactory delivery of said product.

I guess I am failing to see why it would be time consuming if all I am doing is using investment funds to have someone else do the work and just have a weekly meeting with them on the progress of the app.

I am trying to help you here:

Myspace controlled their source code as well.

In this case, though, it's far worse: you are asking somebody else to build your "myspace", then believing that you have any barrier to entry for a competitor -- INCLUDING THE VERY COMPANY THAT BUILT YOUR PRODUCT -- from copying you on the back end.

I hate to fall back on platitudes twice in one thread, but here's another (relevant) one: If it were easy everybody would be doing it.

Just think about it. You're essentially proposing to arbitrage an investor's money. You offer nothing beyond being a project manager. Ask yourself why the VC could not simply, more cheaply, and more directly, hire a dev to do what you're hiring them to do. You are the middleman, and I'm still not seeing any value in your role in this venture.

It's my advice, it's free, and you'll take it or leave it, but I've been on both sides of this table as founder and funder and I'm telling you I'd neither do what you're proposing nor invest in it.

Best of luck in medical school, truly (no sarcasm).

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Well two trivia apps that have over 30k are quizcross and quizup.

Regarding the quality/looks/experience, the company I am working with is in the same city as my medical school and contracted on a flat fee upon satisfactory delivery of said product.

I guess I am failing to see why it would be time consuming if all I am doing is using investment funds to have someone else do the work and just have a weekly meeting with them on the progress of the app.

thanks for your story. it definitely will help me factor in if i want to ultimately pursue this.

Let me try to be less of a jack-ass.

I AM NOT A LAWYER, but my instinct is that the term "satisfactory delivery of said product" would be open to some interpretation. Unless there are specifics outlining it (and you + lawyer are happy with them) I would be very wary of the term. In fact, I wouldn't sign a damn thing on any business contract without a lawyer's approval (few hundred dollars now >> screwed later). This is especially true with your friend the venture capitalist.

@Law2Doc may be interested in offering a more informed opinion (sorry you're the only lawyer I'm aware of on this forum).

The reason I don't like this deal is that I'm confused by what it is you're offering, besides coordination and risk. I'm also confused why it is you think it's appropriate to calculate costs based on an assumption of extreme success (1 million + subscribers and 100,000+ active users who apparently don't get bored and move on).

I can understand the venture capitalist: if she's patient enough, she will get her money back from you one way or another. You'll be a doctor if you make it through med. school. She can beat it out of you then.

I can understand the developers: you'll be paying them before you know whether or not the project is truly successful (once the game is completed).

I don't understand this for you. Eventually, you're almost guaranteed a spot among the top earners. Even with high debt.

After you've finished training, a small investment and side business will be feasible. You will have the money to found it yourself, assuming you are patient and careful. You will also have a fall-back if something goes wrong (being a doctor). You can quit medicine if it's wildly successful, or simply pursue more app development upon completion.

Before you've finished training, a small investment and side business are difficult. Medical school requires a lot of time, even during the first two years. If something goes wrong, you have your student debt, a pissed venture capitalist, and a failed business to run. It also may impact your competitiveness as an applicant if it takes more time than you anticipate.

If it is successful, you seem to have projected it will make around 30-60k/year AFTER the first year. As lovely as that money is, it will be offset by the cost of starting and by the cost of maintaining it, updating it, taxes, etc.

It will also be relatively small potatoes by comparison to a higher future income, which you will risk by pursuing this.

I am a very risk averse person, and I sure as hell would not do this. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide, and with school in general.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Let me try to be less of a jack-ass.

I AM NOT A LAWYER, but my instinct is that the term "satisfactory delivery of said product" would be open to some interpretation. Unless there are specifics outlining it (and you + lawyer are happy with them) I would be very wary of the term. In fact, I wouldn't sign a damn thing on any business contract without a lawyer's approval (few hundred dollars now >> screwed later). This is especially true with your friend the venture capitalist.

@Law2Doc may be interested in offering a more informed opinion (sorry you're the only lawyer I'm aware of on this forum).

The reason I don't like this deal is that I'm confused by what it is you're offering, besides coordination and risk. I'm also confused why it is you think it's appropriate to calculate costs based on an assumption of extreme success (1 million + subscribers and 100,000+ active users who apparently don't get bored and move on).

I can understand the venture capitalist: if she's patient enough, she will get her money back from you one way or another. You'll be a doctor if you make it through med. school. She can beat it out of you then.

I can understand the developers: you'll be paying them before you know whether or not the project is truly successful (once the game is completed).

I don't understand this for you. Eventually, you're almost guaranteed a spot among the top earners. Even with high debt.

After you've finished training, a small investment and side business will be feasible. You will have the money to found it yourself, assuming you are patient and careful. You will also have a fall-back if something goes wrong (being a doctor). You can quit medicine if it's wildly successful, or simply pursue more app development upon completion.

Before you've finished training, a small investment and side business are difficult. Medical school requires a lot of time, even during the first two years. If something goes wrong, you have your student debt, a pissed venture capitalist, and a failed business to run. It also may impact your competitiveness as an applicant if it takes more time than you anticipate.

If it is successful, you seem to have projected it will make around 30-60k/year AFTER the first year. As lovely as that money is, it will be offset by the cost of starting and by the cost of maintaining it, updating it, taxes, etc.

It will also be relatively small potatoes by comparison to a higher future income, which you will risk by pursuing this.

I am a very risk averse person, and I sure as hell would not do this. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide, and with school in general.

I paraphrased the 'satisfactory delivery' thing. My lawyer has a long contract with detailed specifics and milestones that need to be completed and a boilerplate NDA that would be in place. VCs invest money so if the business ends up losing money or fails, they lose their investment... they dont come after you for the money.. otherwise it would be a loan and not an investment.

I was planning on including two more people to manage the company, one being my father for managerial duties.

But I am definitely not saying that I would sacrifice my education for a business venture.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I paraphrased the 'satisfactory delivery' thing. My lawyer has a long contract with detailed specifics and milestones that need to be completed and a boilerplate NDA that would be in place. VCs invest money so if the business ends up losing money or fails, they lose their investment... they dont come after you for the money.. otherwise it would be a loan and not an investment.

I was planning on including two more people to manage the company, one being my father for managerial duties.

But I am definitely not saying that I would sacrifice my education for a business venture.

This makes more sense to me, and thank you for the clarification on venture capitalism.

If other people are around to manage it if it becomes a mess, and other people have money in it, it seems much more reasonable.

 

[Sportsdude89]

MD/MBA route an option? If you're just looking to make money, have you thought of using your funds to invest in real estate and earn income by renting out? You've got four years ahead of you, real estate is low maintenance and much more reliable source of income---stick it in a CD and by the time you graduate hopefully the market will be in a better place. VC carries a lot of volatility there's no way to completely determine your apps outcome beforehand.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Where are you getting your funding from? Angel investors? Start putting your money into an LLC now, will help protect you when you start practicing as well.

 

[chillaxbro]

A business? as in for money? Disgusting

 

[sazerac]

This thread definitely took a turn towards active income activities, but since the OP asked, I have several sources of passive income that I report on schedules B, D, and E. It more than covers my COA in med school, and my time commitment is about a dozen hours a year.

I have many friends who are venture capitalists and/or seek venture capital, and I can't imagine trying to run a venture-seeking business and going to med school at the same time. There just aren't enough hours in a day, and I think both activities would suffer mightily.

 

[styphon]

During medical school, I repaired/made guitars from parts and sold them on ebay. Help fund various obsessions of mine.

 

[Sportsdude89]

LLC- limited liability company. And no, basically it's a company that, if you get sued (for malpractice), they can't go after. Why the hate? If you're thinking of having a family down the road you want to make sure they're protected, especially if your wife doesn't work. Out of curiosity do medical schools have any sort of financial planners they provide you can meet with?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

MD/MBA route an option? If you're just looking to make money, have you thought of using your funds to invest in real estate and earn income by renting out? You've got four years ahead of you, real estate is low maintenance and much more reliable source of income---stick it in a CD and by the time you graduate hopefully the market will be in a better place. VC carries a lot of volatility there's no way to completely determine your apps outcome beforehand.

Eh, could be low maintenance, but I wouldn't count on it. Unless you are looking to have use a management company, I suppose.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

MD/MBA route an option? If you're just looking to make money, have you thought of using your funds to invest in real estate and earn income by renting out? You've got four years ahead of you, real estate is low maintenance and much more reliable source of income---stick it in a CD and by the time you graduate hopefully the market will be in a better place. VC carries a lot of volatility there's no way to completely determine your apps outcome beforehand.

CDs have terrible rates of return.
REITs might be an OK option but I would sooner pick the S&P 500 Index over an REIT ETF.

This thread definitely took a turn towards active income activities, but since the OP asked, I have several sources of passive income that I report on schedules B, D, and E. It more than covers my COA in med school, and my time commitment is about a dozen hours a year.

I have many friends who are venture capitalists and/or seek venture capital, and I can't imagine trying to run a venture-seeking business and going to med school at the same time. There just aren't enough hours in a day, and I think both activities would suffer mightily.

What sort of passive incomes are you referring to? Genuinely interested.
Also, I switched from pursuing VC and am focusing on angel investors. Much less red tape and hoops to jump through.

 

[greenlion]

I've worked in both the finance and software industries and from my experience this sounds utterly ridiculous. For example, a certain financial software company X had a great cloud framework for registered investment advisors to reconcile their customer's trades, generate reports, taxes, etc. But their clients wanted to use the software on their iphones, ipads, android devices. Since the whole thing was enterprise level it was built for reliability and maintence- ASP.NET framework written mostly in C#. Software guys would have to re-design everything from scratch in Objective-C to work as an iOS app. This was a couple years ago. In this instance they contracted out to a company to port it to iOS. This makes sense because they were in no danger of losing their business. We were already established with our customers and had a SaaS (software as a service) model where the customers were tied to us. (btw- the port they presented us was a pile of dung. Met the formal criteria but last I checked it had a 2 star rating among users.)
But what you are proposing is starting your company by CONTRACTING OUT 100% of THE WORK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING? Early startups don't need businessmen and project managers- they need engineers. How can you expect someone more experienced in technology to create something ground-breaking and then give it to you to profit from? Do you really think the company you contracted to is THAT STUPID? They would produce their own software if they had a viable idea. e.g. How is your trivia app going to be better than QuizUp? Because QuizUP is free and has amazing capabilities, particularily in networking different players expertly. How is your outsourced trivia app going to compete with that? Much less compete when yours is not free.
This reminds me of a event at Penn several years ago- It was hosted by some sort of tech startup club on campus. Remarkable thing was the audience was over 2/3 non-tech students- wharton undergrads, wharton MBAs, arts and sciences, law everything. The first speaker asks the audience to raise their hand- who among you wants to found a tech start-up.? 90% hands go up. Who among you has coding skills? maybe 20% of the hands at most. Seems most of them thought they could just be the next Steve jobs- only managing people. Possible but unlikely. Your idea is much worse- you don't even have a tech team to manage.

Anycase- if you actually want to spend time on this I suggest you work on the TECH side more than the business side. I have a hard time believing that a real VC actually talked to you without a prototype and without a team. Nowadays its MUCH easier to build iOS apps than when company X wanted to port their business to mobile. Look into frameworks like the mono project. With it a simple iOS trivia app can be made in a month by a dedicated newbie.

 

[repititionition]

I've worked in both the finance and software industries and from my experience this sounds utterly ridiculous. For example, a certain financial software company X had a great cloud framework for independent investment advisors to reconcile their customer's trades, generate reports, taxes, etc. But their clients wanted to use the software on their iphones, ipads, android devices. Since the whole thing was enterprise level it was built for reliability and maintence- ASP.NET framework written mostly in C#. Software guys would have to re-design everything from scratch in Objective-C to work as an iOS app. This was a couple years ago. In this instance they contracted out to a company to port it to iOS. This makes sense because they were in no danger of losing their business. We were already established with our customers and had a SaaS (software as a service) model where the customers were tied to us. (btw- the port they presented us was a pile of dung. Met the formal criteria but last I checked it had a 2 star rating among users.)
But what you are proposing is starting your company by CONTRACTING OUT 100% of THE WORK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING? Early startups don't need businessmen and project managers- they need engineers. How can you expect someone more experienced in technology to create something ground-breaking and then give it to you to profit from? Do you really think the company you contracted to is THAT STUPID? They would produce their own software if they had a viable idea. e.g. How is your trivia app going to be better than QuizUp? Because QuizUP is free and has amazing capabilities, particularily in networking different players expertly. How is your outsourced trivia app going to compete with that? Much less compete when yours is not free.
This reminds me of a event at Penn several years ago- It was hosted by some sort of tech startup club on campus. Remarkable thing was the audience was over 2/3 non-tech students- wharton undergrads, wharton MBAs, arts and sciences, law everything. The first speaker asks the audience to raise their hand- who among you wants to found a tech start-up.? 90% hands go up. Who among you has coding skills? maybe 20% of the hands at most. Seems most of them thought they could just be the next Steve jobs- only managing people. Possible but unlikely. Your idea is much worse- you don't even have at tech team to manage.

Anycase- if you actually want to spend time on this I suggest you work on the TECH side more than the business side. I have a hard time believing that a real VC actually talked to you without a prototype and without a team. Nowadays its MUCH easier to build iOS apps than when company X wanted to port their business to mobile. Look into frameworks like the mono project. With it a simple iOS trivia app can be made in a month by a dedicated newbie.

He's just as likely to listen to you as me, so GL.

 

[NorthernLights1]

My $0.02, listen to it or not: I used to work at a fairly large contract electrical & software engineering firm and we would (very rarely) take jobs from small companies looking to outsource all of their engineering for a particular product. For a variety of reasons, things hardly ever ended well for them. The purpose of contractors is to complete short, well-defined bits of work and smooth over any skill gaps that a company might have...NOT to be "the guys who do all of that pesky implementation stuff."

As an example of what contracting IS for: A big medical device manufacturer came to us to write some low-level firmware for an upcoming respiratory monitor. There was a detailed spec, and they were coming in afterwards to build all of the software on top of the firmware - you know, the stuff that the user interacts with 🙂 They just needed a little boost to get the foundational things done in time for their FDA approval timeline.

An example of what contracting IS NOT for: A startup company contracted with us to build some kind of newfangled cellphone-on-a-wrist device. I don't even remember exactly what it was for. I do remember, though, that things were never in sync, the company wanted to make changes to the spec every other day, and the whole project eventually collapsed into a lawyer's wet dream, with everybody suing everybody.

That being said, I can certainly understand the desire to have a side business during school. I am starting this August as well, and will hopefully be doing some contract software and hardware development on the side to keep my skills up.

 

[Kaustikos]

Mixologist. Does that count?
Or drug dealer 😆

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I've worked in both the finance and software industries and from my experience this sounds utterly ridiculous. For example, a certain financial software company X had a great cloud framework for independent investment advisors to reconcile their customer's trades, generate reports, taxes, etc. But their clients wanted to use the software on their iphones, ipads, android devices. Since the whole thing was enterprise level it was built for reliability and maintence- ASP.NET framework written mostly in C#. Software guys would have to re-design everything from scratch in Objective-C to work as an iOS app. This was a couple years ago. In this instance they contracted out to a company to port it to iOS. This makes sense because they were in no danger of losing their business. We were already established with our customers and had a SaaS (software as a service) model where the customers were tied to us. (btw- the port they presented us was a pile of dung. Met the formal criteria but last I checked it had a 2 star rating among users.)
But what you are proposing is starting your company by CONTRACTING OUT 100% of THE WORK FROM THE VERY BEGINNING? Early startups don't need businessmen and project managers- they need engineers. How can you expect someone more experienced in technology to create something ground-breaking and then give it to you to profit from? Do you really think the company you contracted to is THAT STUPID? They would produce their own software if they had a viable idea. e.g. How is your trivia app going to be better than QuizUp? Because QuizUP is free and has amazing capabilities, particularily in networking different players expertly. How is your outsourced trivia app going to compete with that? Much less compete when yours is not free.
This reminds me of a event at Penn several years ago- It was hosted by some sort of tech startup club on campus. Remarkable thing was the audience was over 2/3 non-tech students- wharton undergrads, wharton MBAs, arts and sciences, law everything. The first speaker asks the audience to raise their hand- who among you wants to found a tech start-up.? 90% hands go up. Who among you has coding skills? maybe 20% of the hands at most. Seems most of them thought they could just be the next Steve jobs- only managing people. Possible but unlikely. Your idea is much worse- you don't even have at tech team to manage.

Anycase- if you actually want to spend time on this I suggest you work on the TECH side more than the business side. I have a hard time believing that a real VC actually talked to you without a prototype and without a team. Nowadays its MUCH easier to build iOS apps than when company X wanted to port their business to mobile. Look into frameworks like the mono project. With it a simple iOS trivia app can be made in a month by a dedicated newbie.

1. The contractor I am using to develop it is strictly a third party development company who does not sell or produce its own apps. Theres also an NDA and a non-compete that my lawyer drew up that they have agreed to.
2. It would be stupid to ask someone who is interested in business to learn coding... it is time consuming and cost inefficient. It is more preferable to hire someone to do it. Most people who have software developed haven't majored in computer science or are fluent in Objective C or XCode.
3. My app idea is not like QuizUp. I just used it as an example to answer a previous poster about how popular they are.

4. the point of the thread was to ask if med students had a side business, not asking to criticize mine.

 

[tdram]

2. It would be stupid to ask someone who is interested in business to learn coding... it is time consuming and cost inefficient. It is more preferable to hire someone to do it. Most people who have software developed haven't majored in computer science or are fluent in Objective C or XCode.

This is not true at all. Pretty much every successful startup has a founder or co-founder who is a coder. In the app business, being a great businessman is not enough to succeed. You also need to make a killer app, which is all about coding and understanding UI/UX principles. At the very least you need to understand how it works. You can hire someone to help you out, but if you don't even know enough to look at the code and tell whether the guy is doing a good job or not, you're gonna be finished pretty quickly. How would you even be able to evaluate the guy's skills? If you want to improve your chances of success, either learn to code, or partner with a good coder. Trust me, I got burned.

Your business IS your product. You need to make sure you have as much control as you can over the quality of that product. People who understand their product in depth are the most successful in business, not guys that act as middlemen passing money from an investor to a 3rd party company to design the product.

Contracting out all your work from the very beginning is an incredibly stupid idea. Successful startups have smart, innovative engineers, not dime-a-dozen businessmen.

 

[repititionition]

Pls update in 6 months.

 

[repititionition]

This is sort of like the slowest speed train wreck I've ever seen and I'm procrastinating from doing actual work, so I find myself back here again...

I have advised a number of people looking to break in to tech (bona fides above) and this is making me remember some of the absolute worst ideas that I've been pitched, including:

- an app to help you find your car in the parking lot (A - maps will gladly do this if you drop a pin, siri will do it w/o having to use visual UI at all B - this idea is so bad it was actually made fun of in an episode of "silicon valley")

- DTC marketing above a urinal (this was pitched to me by a kid straight out of college in the year 2013. I was like... "dude, have you been to a urinal in a city recently? this is, uh, done already")

- Same kid as above (fixated on urinals) creating a game to encourage you to pee in the center of the urinal mat. I asked about monetization strategy. He goes... "advertising". Dude who in the F is going to pay to get their brand literally pissed on?

- A weather app with dating/personals embedded in it. The guy said "everybody checks the weather", it reduces perceived social barriers to entry for online dating, etc. It was as if he had just read about the concept of the ad impression revenue model (circa early 2000's).

There are more, maybe later - for now back to work.

All were pitched by people with no tech skills, "business" dudes only, all pretty much straight out of school.

Gandalf, you have a unique ability to hear exactly what you want to. In some circumstances this will undoubtedly serve you well. In others not so much.

If you do an insider round please don't take money from anyone who truly needs it, because they aren't going to see a dime of it back. You can read this as criticism or genuine concern. It is the latter.

 

[tdram]

I totally agree with @repititionition. But I'm not going to criticize your business plan anymore. Just come back here and give us an update in 6-8 months. Let your results speak for themselves.

 

[greenlion]

If you do an insider round please don't take money from anyone who truly needs it, because they aren't going to see a dime of it back. You can read this as criticism or genuine concern. It is the latter.

Saddest part b/c you just know the OP won't listen and old people and non-tech people (grandparents, parents, uncles, cousins, friends) will lose.

OP- if you don't want to learn coding at least think about economics: your lawyer and your development company have no real stake other than to collect their fee from you. You should expect the BARE minimum from both.

 

[tdram]

Saddest part b/c you just know the OP won't listen and old people and non-tech people (grandparents, parents, uncles, cousins, friends) will lose.

OP- if you don't want to learn coding at least think about economics: your lawyer and your development company have no real stake other than to collect their fee from you. You should expect the BARE minimum from both.

This is so true. I learned the hard way. Hired a company to write us some code and it turned out terrible. It ended up costing us more than double to get another coder to fix the bugs, because he couldn't even figure out how these guys had coded it. They basically did a whole lot of cutting and pasting type stuff (excuse my lack of detail, I'm not a coder). Looked good when they delivered it, but boy did we not realize what we were getting into.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

It's not that I don't listen to others, it's just I need more proof to be swayed in an argument.

I guess I'll just invest the money I was going to bootstrap part of the cost with in the stock market and let it be the passive income i am looking for.

 

[sazerac]

What sort of passive incomes are you referring to? Genuinely interested.

Well, schedule B is interest and dividends on investments. Schedule D is capital gains on those investments. These are mutual funds at Vanguard. Schedule E is rent and royalties, specifically rental real estate to tenants well known to me.

The recurring theme here is "it takes money to make money (passively)".

Where did I get this money originally? Ironically, in software. This was back in the 1990s. I got out of that industry right before the Internet boom bust at the turn of the century.

Now, I just want to be a doctor.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Well, schedule B is interest and dividends on investments. Schedule D is capital gains on those investments. These are mutual funds at Vanguard. Schedule E is rent and royalties, specifically rental real estate to tenants well known to me.

The recurring theme here is "it takes money to make money (passively)".

Where did I get this money originally? Ironically, in software. This was back in the 1990s. I got out of that industry right before the Internet boom bust at the turn of the century.

Now, I just want to be a doctor.

Which vanguard vehicle are you using? I'm still debating between vfinx and vtsmx

 

[repititionition]

It's not that I don't listen to others, it's just I need more proof to be swayed in an argument.

I guess I'll just invest the money I was going to bootstrap part of the cost with in the stock market and let it be the passive income i am looking for.

AAAHHH!!! I'm back like a moth to the flame!

You do know that most of the stock market would not qualify as a "passive income" source, correct (e.g. only stocks with obscene dividend yield or fixed income would meet the loosest definition of passive income investments)?

Which vanguard vehicle are you using? I'm still debating between vfinx and vtsmx

Neither of these would qualify as a passive income source because they are traditional equities funds.

 

[Kangal]

.