Any Muslim med students?

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Subha36

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Hi! I'm at a medical school that only has a couple of other muslims!

Although I love people of all backgrounds, I'd like to particularly network with other muslims in medicine for the purposes of relating on faith, making friends, dating, etc. I know there are many of us, but where are you all hiding? As a new incoming med student, I just thought I'd ask in case there are secret fb groups I don't know about? Or does Imana have any events that people attend? Are the popular muslim doctor tweeters? Basically, any info would be helpful.

Just was wondering this and thought I'd throw the question out there to get some guidance. Salaam/May peace be with you.
 
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Muslims are really well-represented in medicine. But it does also depend which city you're going to school in. Also if your school is attached to the undergrad campus then there will probably be an active MSA which will help you meet other Muslims. I moved out of state for med school last year and it was nice having an active MSA to help me meet people outside the medical school.
 
There's quite a few Muslims at my school, and there's a Muslim Student Interest Group too. I went to one of their meetings and it was really interesting - Muslim philosophy played a large part in shaping the field of medicine and science in general.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
That's a little offensive. Realize it's full of attending Muslim physicians too.

My medical school was littered with Indians. Littered with white Christians and Jewish people too.

If you look to take offense at the world, you will find something offensive.

In regards to OP:

There were a decent number of Muslim students at my school, who generally would hang out, but there were kinda two tiers of how religious they were. All pretty nice people and I'd consider > 50% of them my friends when we graduated.
 
Didn't intend to offend. Just saying that there are a lot so surprised you're having trouble meeting people unless you to go school in north dekota. Just look at your school census and pluck out all the khans and asads and jalals

No text required, just this:

KhanSequel_FEAT-970x545.png
 
I really doubt that "littered" was meant hatefully. It just means that there are a lot of them, all over the place.
Tone doesn't always translate to text, I get that. But the word littered has an almost universally negative connotation. @evilbooyaa you got to draw the line somewhere. 'Littered with Muslims' is past the line for me. And I don't offend that easily, I mean jack Bauer is probably my favorite TV character of all-time. But you can't let people disrespect you. Next thing you know you'll be laughing off "terrorist" comments.
 
Tone doesn't always translate to text, I get that. But the word littered has an almost universally negative connotation. @evilbooyaa you got to draw the line somewhere. 'Littered with Muslims' is past the line for me. And I don't offend that easily, I mean jack Bauer is probably my favorite TV character of all-time. But you can't let people disrespect you. Next thing you know you'll be laughing off "terrorist" comments.

This offends me
 
Tone doesn't always translate to text, I get that. But the word littered has an almost universally negative connotation. @evilbooyaa you got to draw the line somewhere. 'Littered with Muslims' is past the line for me. And I don't offend that easily, I mean jack Bauer is probably my favorite TV character of all-time. But you can't let people disrespect you. Next thing you know you'll be laughing off "terrorist" comments.

Your surgery rotation is going to be rough.
 
Your surgery rotation is going to be rough.

lol why, a lot of terrorist jokes on surgery rotation? And look, maybe the poster meant absolutely not offence and I misinterpreted it. In real life, when I can hear the tone, it would't be an issue.
But to me, "littered" is used for filth. Filth you want to get rid of. And lots and lots of people want Muslims out of this country. That "total and complete shutdown" of Muslims entering the country--I saw a stat that 75% of Trump voters want that. THAT climate has possibly made me prone think the worst in what might've been an innocuous comment.
 
lol why, a lot of terrorist jokes on surgery rotation? And look, maybe the poster meant absolutely not offence and I misinterpreted it. In real life, when I can hear the tone, it would't be an issue.
But to me, "littered" is used for filth. Filth you want to get rid of. And lots and lots of people want Muslims out of this country. That "total and complete shutdown" of Muslims entering the country--I saw a stat that 75% of Trump voters want that. THAT climate has possibly made me prone think the worst in what might've been an innocuous comment.

Truely, muslims are unfairly treated in todays climate. Medicine is probably the least hostile to muslims among those, save the exception of surgery, who is hostile and malignant to everyone equally.

Take home message: get some thicker skin.

Eta: everyone know trump supporters have problems.
 
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thats what the ultra-left wing media wants you to believe. most people don't even know what a muslim actually is. no one wants muslims out of this country. stop watching television.

Im pretty sure theres a lot of over lap w anti muslim, believes in creationism, anti black, anti gay, and anti interracial marriage beliefs. Just a hunch.

Fortunately not alot of those in medicine.
 
Tone doesn't always translate to text, I get that. But the word littered has an almost universally negative connotation. @evilbooyaa you got to draw the line somewhere. 'Littered with Muslims' is past the line for me. And I don't offend that easily, I mean jack Bauer is probably my favorite TV character of all-time. But you can't let people disrespect you. Next thing you know you'll be laughing off "terrorist" comments.

Regarding bolded - Yes you do, you're just in denial.

Okay, I heard a lot of worse things about the color of my skin, especially when I was younger, than a lot of us being described as 'littered'.

Guess what? As a brown person living in America, I laugh off terrorist comments from people I don't know. *GASP*

You can't let the media tell you what the country is like. You DEFINITELY can't let the portrayal of the entire country be your idea of what people in medicine are like.

"Think about how dumb the average american is. Now realize that 50% of the country is dumber than them."

INb4 someone says "omg who ends a sentence with 'is'" and "well the distribution of intelligence is not normal, so the average likely is lower or higher than the median, b/c statistics lol"
 
My school is located in a very non-diverse area, so not a lot of Muslims at my school, which is why I originally created this thread. Thanks to those who gave productive advice. Sitting inside studying all day isn't conducive to getting to know people, so if there are online muslim communities to get involved in, info on that would be helpful.

Edit: I understand there are a LOT of them everywhere... I'm asking how to network with them, given my situation. Asking what other muslims may have done, if they were ever in my situation
 
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P.S. Yea, this is my attempt at steering the thread back to the original purpose.... 🙄
 
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Didn't intend to offend. Just saying that there are a lot so surprised you're having trouble meeting people unless you to go school in north dekota. Just look at your school census and pluck out all the khans and asads and jalals


Yeah, basically i got to a school that's in the middle of nowhere (very North Dakota-ish)
 
im looking for a beautiful pakistani physician wife also...dentists will suffice as well..PM me with profile and pics haha 😉
 
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?????????????????????

it was in jest..

OP is clearly looking for a way to date other muslims..I don't blame him/her, it can be tough to find a partner of the same religion AND culture AND in the same field and even more so for med students/residents
 
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Regarding bolded - Yes you do, you're just in denial.

Okay, I heard a lot of worse things about the color of my skin, especially when I was younger, than a lot of us being described as 'littered'.

Guess what? As a brown person living in America, I laugh off terrorist comments from people I don't know. *GASP*

You can't let the media tell you what the country is like. You DEFINITELY can't let the portrayal of the entire country be your idea of what people in medicine are like.

"Think about how dumb the average american is. Now realize that 50% of the country is dumber than them."

INb4 someone says "omg who ends a sentence with 'is'" and "well the distribution of intelligence is not normal, so the average likely is lower or higher than the median, b/c statistics lol"

So I never said that being described using the word littered was the worst thing I've heard. Obviously not even close to it. Still, I don't like it. So idk where you got that from.

And if you let people call you a terrorist because you're brown, then that's on you man. I don't let people disrespect me like that. Since high school, I've made a conscious decision to never let someone get away with that. Self respect.
 
There are a ton of Muslim students at my school. It's been great getting to know them and becoming friends with all of them. I was raised in a small Christian community so I did not really get to meet many Muslim people until med school.
 
Im pretty sure theres a lot of over lap w anti muslim, believes in creationism, anti black, anti gay, and anti interracial marriage beliefs. Just a hunch.

Fortunately not alot of those in medicine.

This is the best example of stereotype & prejudice in this thread.
 
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Muslims are everywhere in medicine. But at least where I am, the people who identify as "Muslim" are so varied that the label is almost useless in telling you what type of person they might be.
 
This is the best example of stereotype & prejudice in this thread.
I don't feel bad about stereotyping small minded hateful individuals who think they can dictate other peoples lives, drag a human being behind a truck, or make children feel bad for being "different."
Sorrynotsorry.
 
So I never said that being described using the word littered was the worst thing I've heard. Obviously not even close to it. Still, I don't like it. So idk where you got that from.

I never said that you thought it was the worst thing you've heard. I'm just saying that, IMO, you're being over sensitive to a word that wasn't meant to be offensive. You're allowed to take offense if you really wanna, just like I'm allowed to think it's silly that you do.

And if you let people call you a terrorist because you're brown, then that's on you man. I don't let people disrespect me like that. Since high school, I've made a conscious decision to never let someone get away with that. Self respect.

If I LET people call me a terrorist? What do you want me to do if/when they do, fight them? Yell at them? Call them a racist? Insult them back? Give them a long speech about the systematic racism they're applying to an entire population of people?

I've learned that most people who do that sort of thing do so to see if they can get a rise out of you. When they don't, they generally move on. I will concede that I guess I've been fortunate that I've never been in a situation where I felt my life was threatened due to what people said, unlike some Sikhs and other Indians who came under attack after 9/11.

I can't control what other people say most of the time - What I can do is control my reaction to it. And it's not like I'm bottling my rage to unleash in the future - I truly let it roll off my back.
 
If I LET people call me a terrorist? What do you want me to do if/when they do, fight them? Yell at them? Call them a racist? Insult them back? Give them a long speech about the systematic racism they're applying to an entire population of people?


I can't control what other people say most of the time - What I can do is control my reaction to it. And it's not like I'm bottling my rage to unleash in the future - I truly let it roll off my back.
You let them know that you don't find those jokes funny and that it's not ok to make them. I can't imagine actually laughing along with them, no way. That will just encourage that behavior in the future. But no violence, preferably no yelling either.

And part of it might have to do with if you're actually Muslim or you just "look" Muslim (because of skin). Not sure where you stand based on your posts alone. But it makes sense. Like if someone called me a Mexican slur, it'd be bad, obviously. But I wouldn't feel offended the same way a Mexican would be.
 
There's quite a few Muslims at my school, and there's a Muslim Student Interest Group too. I went to one of their meetings and it was really interesting - Muslim philosophy played a large part in shaping the field of medicine and science in general.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
al-cohol, al-bumin, al-kalosis
 
Oh btw all the muslim medical students are probably someplace like pakistan where it costs about 20 times less for a medical education
 
Ayyyy Paki Muslim female med student over here.

I feel you, OP. I attend a med school with a mere handful of Muslims in the good ole US of A and am wanting to network and learn about others as well. Let me know what's up.
 
Truely, muslims are unfairly treated in todays climate. Medicine is probably the least hostile to muslims among those, save the exception of surgery, who is hostile and malignant to everyone equally.

Take home message: get some thicker skin.

Eta: everyone know trump supporters have problems.

*yawn* My last name is that of a popular dictator. Middle name is that of a guy the US is currently trying to over throw. And first name is that of someone who was involved in a mass shooting. Now....I've personally never felt any hostility or discrimination at all. Infact, I have a fairly obvious accent too. Yet....never ever been discriminated (unless going through the airport -_-). I don't know what you guys do that gets you unfair treatment lol 😛 If you're a hard working person who works his/her ass off, you will be respected for your work ethic. Infact now that I think of it, I've had people go out of the way for me. My IM month was during ramadan so I couldn't eat lunch, and every day the education coordinator made sure to pack me a goodie bag that I could take home with me.
 
Oh btw all the muslim medical students are probably someplace like pakistan where it costs about 20 times less for a medical education

Yes, Pakistanis/indians do make short term decisions without taking into account the long term prospects of their decisions. Anyone going to Pakistan for medical school is shooting themselves in the foot if they have the caliber to get a US MD acceptance.

The people who usually go from the US to Pakistani mbbs usually go for the "foreign seats". They can't qualify for the regular seats unless they do the local FSC or A level system. The foreign seats actually cost quite a bit.
 
Yes, Pakistanis/indians do make short term decisions without taking into account the long term prospects of their decisions. Anyone going to Pakistan for medical school is shooting themselves in the foot if they have the caliber to get a US MD acceptance.

The people who usually go from the US to Pakistani mbbs usually go for the "foreign seats". They can't qualify for the regular seats unless they do the local FSC or A level system. The foreign seats actually cost quite a bit.

I agree with your first sentence but pakistan MBBS does NOT cost more than US MD or carribean route. It's like $5000-$10,000 USD a year for 5 years and can be done right after high school so no premed or MCAT required. The Caribbean route costs $250,000-300,000 total plus the required premed years another $160,000 potentially.

The people who go to pakistan from US just need to score well on the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK which can be done with all the resources now out there and the time they have to study (12+ months for each exam, in comparison US students only get 6 weeks to study.) I have friends who took this route and are now physicians and these people had only gotten into community colleges after high school--it was a pretty good deal for them. The MBBS (a bachelors degree) gets autonatically converted to a MD (a doctorate) when they apply for residency, which I never understood. I personally would never go to a US born pakistan trained physician--they really cheated the system. But it can be done and happens all the time and is an alternative for people who would never even have the opportunity to become a physician in the US or even carribbean.
 
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I agree with your first sentence but pakistan MBBS does NOT cost more than US MD or carribean route. It's like $5000-$10,000 USD a year for 5 years and can be done right after high school so no premed or MCAT required. The Caribbean route costs $250,000-300,000 total plus the required premed years another $160,000 potentially.

The people who go to pakistan from US just need to score well on the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK which can be done with all the resources now out there and the time they have to study (12+ months for each exam, in comparison US students only get 6 weeks to study.) I have friends who took this route and are now physicians and these people had only gotten into community colleges after high school--it was a pretty good deal for them. The MBBS (a bachelors degree) gets autonatically converted to a MD (a doctorate) when they apply for residency, which I never understood. I personally would never go to a US born pakistan trained physician--they really cheated the system. But it can be done and happens all the time and is an alternative for people who would never even have the opportunity to become a physician in the US or even carribbean.

Alright...never did I for a minute suggest that the foreign seats cost more than US schools. I know they cost around 10k. But compared to local students studying in government schools who pay around $1000 dollars that's still significantly less. My sister who went to King edward paid $100 a year 9-10 years ago.

Now I also agree with you claiming that people can take the USMLEs and come into the US. Sure with 240+ both USMLE step 1 and step 2 one gets into a IM residency. And sure they can take upto 6 long months to study for each USMLE exam. In theory all of this sounds like a sweet deal right? But here is the reality 🙂 And this is coming from someone who did high school in Pakistan but chose to take the US MD route (8 damn years) rather than the 5 year Pakistani route. Would I have gotten an acceptance in Pakistan? Hell yes 🙂 But this is why only people without fore sight try to save 100-150k when it ends up costing them a lot more in the long run. Here are the facts:

Misconception no. 1: It takes less time in Pakistan (5 yrs vs 8 years).
Not true. I have 20 class fellows from high school atleast who are now doctors in Pakistan. Care to venture a guess how many of them will find out where they are going for residency on March 18th this year? One. The rest will apply next cycle. So despite everyone graduating 2 years ago, only one person was actually able to apply this cycle, and his application itself was a haphazard attempt at having something this year. So why in this world are people who are graduating so much earlier still not able to get into residency the same time as someone whose had 8 years of secondary education? First reason - its not 5 vs 8, its 5.5 vs 7. After the 5.5 years IMGs start studying for the USMLEs. They take 6 months for step 1 on average. Why? Because they somehow are brainwashed into believing that Kaplan is a legit resource that needs to be done for step 1. I don't have time to rip apart the false belief that somehow US grads have superior background knowledge, but anyway I'll let that go. Then they take another 3 months to study for step 2 CK. Then they come to the US and study for another month or two and take step 2 CK. All the ones who need a H1 visa will then take Step 3. The fact that humans take a couple weeks of break between each exam, it ends up being a total of 1 year to take all these exams. Now....the next struggle starts for US observerships 🙂 Because these guys need US experience and US recommendations. And then the struggle starts for sending out random emails and hoping for a response from somewhere 😛 Also observerships cost $$$ and time 🙂 And THEN when everything is complete do these IMGs start their application, and that process itself is 1 year in total with interviews, eventually matching, and eventually waiting for residency to start. Whereas US grads, finish 3 year and fill up their application and essentially start interviewing BEFORE graduation and do everything while in school. So in short, you can say an mbbs takes less time, but realistically 20 of my class fellows from high school who are all Mbbs doctors will die to be matching march 18th as I would 🙂

Your second misconception: It costs less.
Actually doing an mbbs is a ridiculously bad financial decision. Here are the facts. How many IMGs do you know who can go into plastics, derm, radiology, EM, urology, opthomology, ENT and all the high paying specialties? Almost no one. All the super lifestyle friendly fields which are highly competitive are exclusively US grads. Only the least competitive specialties like FM, IM, psych, peds, neurology are where IMGs can go. Now here I am heading into EM, guaranteed a 350-400k income while my IM counterparts will be making 180-250k as hospitalists. Try getting into EM or any competitive high paying specialty as an IMG and then we'll talk 🙂 So over a 35 year career, that 150k pay difference translates into an opportunity cost of a few million. Now you'll make the argument that one can do a fellowship in Cards, GI in IM. Then I'll just have to remind you how competitive these specialties are 🙂 People from top notch residency programs, all of whom want cards and GI, eventually take those spots. IMGs are handicapped, they usually get accepted into crap residency programs, middle of nowhere essentially, programs that US grads essentially dont want. Only the 260+ brilliant folks break in to the top tier IM programs where they can later go into comeptitive specialties. Otherwise most IMGs go to non competitive programs whose match rate for competitive fellowships are pretty dismal.

Your 3rd misconception: It's easy to get into a residency for IMGs
It is 10 times more difficult for an IMG to get into a residency program. Gone are the days where the number of applicants were equal to the number of spots in the US. Now there are 25k residency spots and 40K applicants. Guess which people mostly don't match? Mostly its IMGs 🙂 Most IMGs DO NOT match. Residency programs have a huge preference for US grads. US grads are sent interviews as a preference over IMGs. Any IMG that scores less than 230 (60th percentile) can absolutely forget matching. That's it. It's the end. Have you taken the USMLE? 20% of questions are a crap shoot. There is a LOT of guesswork. On a bad test day, someone scoring in the 240s can easily fall below 230 on a stressful test day. And that's almost game over (unless they go psychiatry). Less than 220, it's mostly gave over for every IMG. So average intelligence IMGs get screwed over all the time which is why MOST imgs don't match. The physicians that are already working, applied ages ago when there weren't DO programs springing up in the US everyday. Now the US grads itself surpass the total number of spots available.

Summary: I personally paid an extra 100k on my education and avoided doing an mbbs from pakistan, which I easily could have easily done as my own mother was a professor in a medical school in Lahore -_- Yes, the entire family wanted me to do medicine in Pakistan, but like the rebel that I am, I did what I wanted. Here is what I bought myself for an extra 100k that I spent on my education - An opportunity to go into lifestyle high paying specialties - You name it. I looked into anesthesia, optho, ortho, EM, Urology - I eventually picked EM. I could have gone into any of those. Next, the extra 100k on my education meant huge career opportunities. Not only is matching easy, I got to interview at programs like Harvard, Hopkins, Emory, Duke, Baylor, UTSW, Cincinnati (no. 1 in EM). All in all got a total of 21 interviews after applying to 55 programs (IMGs apply to 100+ and hardly get 5-10 and that too in a low competitive specialty like IM). Now having Harvard on the resume itself creates opportunities which are theoretically worth more than 100k. EM isn't big on fellowships afterwards, but if I went into Anesthesia then I could have gone into pain, transplant, cardiac, and all the most lucrative specialties after a brand name residency program. So..really...if anyone has an opportunity to go to a US MD school, they should, even if it means paying an extra 100-200k in education expenses. It pays off. Big time.
 
And yes I am quite aware that US grads have 6 weeks. But if you've actually taken the USMLE, you would know that knowledge peaks. 6-12 weeks is the perfect amount of time for that exam. Anything beyong that is usually unnecessary. IMGs don't understand that exam and waste time on low yield resources like Kaplan. They spend 3-4 damn months doing Kaplan ONCE. They read the most low yield material and probably remember 10% of whatever kaplan they did over a 3 month time period. That's now how memory works. Memory works by repetition. People can study 6 months and do 5-6 hrs a daily (no one can do 6 months of 12+ hrs a day). Or they can do 16 hrs a day of 4-6 weeks and do the same amount of information, in a shorter time period, and have more repetition in a shorter time. This is from someone who scored a 265+ by studying 4 weeks 🙂 What did I do in 4 weeks for step 2? Uworld x once complete. Uworld x 1 marked (900 marked). MTB 2 times 3 + HY lectures by conrad fisher x 2. So basically I saw all the information atleast 5 times in 4 weeks. Repetition in the shortest amount of time = Memory and a high score.
 
Alright...never did I for a minute suggest that the foreign seats cost more than US schools. I know they cost around 10k. But compared to local students studying in government schools who pay around $1000 dollars that's still significantly less. My sister who went to King edward paid $100 a year 9-10 years ago.

Now I also agree with you claiming that people can take the USMLEs and come into the US. Sure with 240+ both USMLE step 1 and step 2 one gets into a IM residency. And sure they can take upto 6 long months to study for each USMLE exam. In theory all of this sounds like a sweet deal right? But here is the reality 🙂 And this is coming from someone who did high school in Pakistan but chose to take the US MD route (8 damn years) rather than the 5 year Pakistani route. Would I have gotten an acceptance in Pakistan? Hell yes 🙂 But this is why only people without fore sight try to save 100-150k when it ends up costing them a lot more in the long run. Here are the facts:

Misconception no. 1: It takes less time in Pakistan (5 yrs vs 8 years).
Not true. I have 20 class fellows from high school atleast who are now doctors in Pakistan. Care to venture a guess how many of them will find out where they are going for residency on March 18th this year? One. The rest will apply next cycle. So despite everyone graduating 2 years ago, only one person was actually able to apply this cycle, and his application itself was a haphazard attempt at having something this year. So why in this world are people who are graduating so much earlier still not able to get into residency the same time as someone whose had 8 years of secondary education? First reason - its not 5 vs 8, its 5.5 vs 7. After the 5.5 years IMGs start studying for the USMLEs. They take 6 months for step 1 on average. Why? Because they somehow are brainwashed into believing that Kaplan is a legit resource that needs to be done for step 1. I don't have time to rip apart the false belief that somehow US grads have superior background knowledge, but anyway I'll let that go. Then they take another 3 months to study for step 2 CK. Then they come to the US and study for another month or two and take step 2 CK. All the ones who need a H1 visa will then take Step 3. The fact that humans take a couple weeks of break between each exam, it ends up being a total of 1 year to take all these exams. Now....the next struggle starts for US observerships 🙂 Because these guys need US experience and US recommendations. And then the struggle starts for sending out random emails and hoping for a response from somewhere 😛 Also observerships cost $$$ and time 🙂 And THEN when everything is complete do these IMGs start their application, and that process itself is 1 year in total with interviews, eventually matching, and eventually waiting for residency to start. Whereas US grads, finish 3 year and fill up their application and essentially start interviewing BEFORE graduation and do everything while in school. So in short, you can say an mbbs takes less time, but realistically 20 of my class fellows from high school who are all Mbbs doctors will die to be matching march 18th as I would 🙂

Your second misconception: It costs less.
Actually doing an mbbs is a ridiculously bad financial decision. Here are the facts. How many IMGs do you know who can go into plastics, derm, radiology, EM, urology, opthomology, ENT and all the high paying specialties? Almost no one. All the super lifestyle friendly fields which are highly competitive are exclusively US grads. Only the least competitive specialties like FM, IM, psych, peds, neurology are where IMGs can go. Now here I am heading into EM, guaranteed a 350-400k income while my IM counterparts will be making 180-250k as hospitalists. Try getting into EM or any competitive high paying specialty as an IMG and then we'll talk 🙂 So over a 35 year career, that 150k pay difference translates into an opportunity cost of a few million. Now you'll make the argument that one can do a fellowship in Cards, GI in IM. Then I'll just have to remind you how competitive these specialties are 🙂 People from top notch residency programs, all of whom want cards and GI, eventually take those spots. IMGs are handicapped, they usually get accepted into crap residency programs, middle of nowhere essentially, programs that US grads essentially dont want. Only the 260+ brilliant folks break in to the top tier IM programs where they can later go into comeptitive specialties. Otherwise most IMGs go to non competitive programs whose match rate for competitive fellowships are pretty dismal.

Your 3rd misconception: It's easy to get into a residency for IMGs
It is 10 times more difficult for an IMG to get into a residency program. Gone are the days where the number of applicants were equal to the number of spots in the US. Now there are 25k residency spots and 40K applicants. Guess which people mostly don't match? Mostly its IMGs 🙂 Most IMGs DO NOT match. Residency programs have a huge preference for US grads. US grads are sent interviews as a preference over IMGs. Any IMG that scores less than 230 (60th percentile) can absolutely forget matching. That's it. It's the end. Have you taken the USMLE? 20% of questions are a crap shoot. There is a LOT of guesswork. On a bad test day, someone scoring in the 240s can easily fall below 230 on a stressful test day. And that's almost game over (unless they go psychiatry). Less than 220, it's mostly gave over for every IMG. So average intelligence IMGs get screwed over all the time which is why MOST imgs don't match. The physicians that are already working, applied ages ago when there weren't DO programs springing up in the US everyday. Now the US grads itself surpass the total number of spots available.

Summary: I personally paid an extra 100k on my education and avoided doing an mbbs from pakistan, which I easily could have easily done as my own mother was a professor in a medical school in Lahore -_- Yes, the entire family wanted me to do medicine in Pakistan, but like the rebel that I am, I did what I wanted. Here is what I bought myself for an extra 100k that I spent on my education - An opportunity to go into lifestyle high paying specialties - You name it. I looked into anesthesia, optho, ortho, EM, Urology - I eventually picked EM. I could have gone into any of those. Next, the extra 100k on my education meant huge career opportunities. Not only is matching easy, I got to interview at programs like Harvard, Hopkins, Emory, Duke, Baylor, UTSW, Cincinnati (no. 1 in EM). All in all got a total of 21 interviews after applying to 55 programs (IMGs apply to 100+ and hardly get 5-10 and that too in a low competitive specialty like IM). Now having Harvard on the resume itself creates opportunities which are theoretically worth more than 100k. EM isn't big on fellowships afterwards, but if I went into Anesthesia then I could have gone into pain, transplant, cardiac, and all the most lucrative specialties after a brand name residency program. So..really...if anyone has an opportunity to go to a US MD school, they should, even if it means paying an extra 100-200k in education expenses. It pays off. Big time.

I wasn't talking about true IMGs..obviously they have it harder. I was specifically talking about US born and raised pakistanis who go back home to Pakistan just because it's easier to get into medical school there as a US citizen and cheat the system because they could not get into a US medical school. These people don't care about the speciality as long as they get the MD after their name and the $200,000 a year salary--that is more than they could have ever imagined if they had stayed in US for their education since they would have never been qualified to get into med school here. In my community, I was the only one who took the long route and did my studies in US, all the other guys who barely passed high school were sent to Pakistan right after high school by their parents to do MBBS, all of them are now physicians in US--some of these guys were failing their science courses in high school and only got into community colleges they would have never been able to get into a US med school . US born and raised students who did their studies in pakistan have it easier to get IM/FM residencies than actual IMGs.
 
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I wasn't talking about true IMGs..obviously they have it harder. I was specifically talking about US born and raised pakistanis who go back home to Pakistan just because it's easier to get into medical school there as a US citizen and cheat the system because they could not get into a US medical school. These people don't care about the speciality as long as they get the MD after their name and the $200,000 a year salary--that is more than they could have ever imagined if they had stayed in US for their education since they would have never been qualified to get into med school here. In my community, I was the only one who took the long route and did my studies in US, all the other guys who barely passed high school were sent to Pakistan right after high school by their parents to do MBBS, all of them are now physicians in US--some of these guys were failing their science courses in high school and only got into community colleges they would have never been able to get into a US med school . US born and raised students who did their studies in pakistan have it easier to get IM/FM residencies than actual IMGs.

If they struggle to get into college, then they will struggle to get into a residency program. Well if the goal is mediocrity, then that mediocrity can be achieved from anywhere. But for a mediocre student who struggles to pass high school, will likely struggle with the USMLE, regardless of how mcuh time they have. And you might know people who eventually made it back in the day, but a score of <220 is usually a death sentence for IMGs now. 42,000 applicants, 25,000 positions. >25k US MD and DO grads. Its a gamble. Dumb people are safer going to DO programs in the US quite honestly lol.
 
Muslim med student from Michigan. The 4 major schools from SE Michigan all have functioning Muslim Student Associations and we've collaborated on volunteering events and socials so the community is definitely there.
 
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