any of you know any med students who have quit?

[lightthecandle]

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I'm just wondering what are some reasons med students quit med school...can't handle work load? not what they really want? too much stress?


I just don't understand how med students aren't able to handle stress...I mean getting into med school means you can, so how can you not?

is it that much work? is it worth it?

 

[DwyaneWade]

The people I've known who have dropped out did so because they discovered that they didn't want to be a doctor as much as they thought they did. One went back to get a masters degree. Another went back home to do IT work he had been doing before medical school.

The point is medical school is a very stressful experience and some people decide that it isn't worth all the work to do something they don't really enjoy.

 

[mtDNA]

There are some people who fail and leave or fail and re do a year or so. There are a handful of these people who were originally in my class and are now a class below, or have quit altogether. Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

 

[UVABranch]

yep I know someone where that was their reason...but it was also reflected in their grades. They would hve had to remediate inthe summer and chose not to. They were really doing it because of their partents, but they wanted a job where they could make a lot of money and realized that medicine wasn't the way to go if that's your only motivating factor.

 

[PenguinHead]

Common reasons in our school

Family issues
Decided they didn't want to be a doctor
Grades

 

[45408]

Yeah, a few of my classmates dropped out to do something else, and a few more took a leave of absence, and something like 6-7 of them are repeating first year.

 

[Isradoc1983]

Hi I was reading the post and I was just wondering whether the people who couldn't handle the academic stress in your med school and had to drop out were URM?
The reason i am asking it is because I have heared some people complain about URM who were accepted into a certain school and then quit after the first year/semester.
I am not racist or anything but I am interested to know whether its the case in other schools.
Thanks

 

[smq123]

I just don't understand how med students aren't able to handle stress...I mean getting into med school means you can, so how can you not?

Being a pre-med, don't judge how other people handle stress. For some people, who have to deal with crap in their personal lives (a parent dying, a divorce, a best friend being diagnosed with a terminal illness), med school is often TOO MUCH stress to handle. Other people just realize that they didn't like medicine as much as they thought they would.

Please, please don't generalize and make assumptions when you haven't been in their shoes yet. (If, for no other reason, to at least make sure that karma doesn't come back and bite you in the back.)

 

[Mr hawkings]

I know one kid who was only in med school because his surgeon father pressured him into going so he in protest, he did not go to a single class and took all the exams without studying. he pretty much just chilled and did nothing for a year.

Obvioulsy, he flunked out after first year and turned down an offer to repeat the year.

 

[mjl1717]

Being a pre-med, don't judge how other people handle stress. For some people, who have to deal with crap in their personal lives (a parent dying, a divorce, a best friend being diagnosed with a terminal illness), med school is often TOO MUCH stress to handle. Other people just realize that they didn't like medicine as much as they thought they would.

Please, please don't generalize and make assumptions when you haven't been in their shoes yet. (If, for no other reason, to at least make sure that karma doesn't come back and bite you in the back.)

I could not have said this any better..

 

[Mythos219]

I know two people who dropped out. One was my old high school history teacher who dropped out after first year but never gave a reason for it.

The other is a guy I met at a conference who made it through medical school and left during his residency. Literally walked out one day and never looked back. He said it just wasn't for him and he had toyed with the idea of dropping out in medical school but his brother who was a physician, kept telling him to stick it out. He went on to found a small biotech company and is now a multimillionaire.

 

[Wylde]

I just don't understand how med students aren't able to handle stress...I mean getting into med school means you can, so how can you not?

I'm a pre-med and obviously have little idea what med school is like, but:

Med school is 4 years long and residency is another 3-7 years. That long of a time is STRESSFUL on it's own, especially if it is something you find out you really don't want to do. Would you want to study subjects for a career you realized you will never enjoy?

It's not always about handling stress, but about figuring out what you want to do. If you enter med school and figure out you'd rather be working in a completely opposite field, no matter how well you handle stress you will not want to continue.

 

[Blade28]

*Couldn't keep up with studies
*Couldn't pass certain basic science class
*Couldn't pass Step 1
*Decided lifestyle wasn't right for them

 

[Mayhem]

I remember that at the start of 2nd semester my class had about 15 less people than we came in with. Apart from those people we only lost one other person. He had taken a leave of absence at the end of third year and then never came back. I wasn't shocked though cause dude was a millionaire and was only doing medicine because he liked it. What he didn't like was med school.

Sometimes I think the only thing keeping some people in school is the fact that we've been in school all our lives and have no disposable income or marketable skill. It's how the "man" keeps the med student masses in check. LOL

 

[sprinkibrio]

There's a few who quit here every year and there are a few who repeat (but finish the year). It's not likely anyone will tell you why they quit... I've heard from one that said it "wasn't for her" yet now she's trying again next year... so who knows.

 

[kypdurron5]

There are some people who fail and leave or fail and re do a year or so. There are a handful of these people who were originally in my class and are now a class below, or have quit altogether. Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

Along these lines, my personal physician was telling me that his class was really mad when they found out certain "under qualified" individuals had been accepted based on subjective strengths or disadvantages. They made up almost all the students who struggled and didn't pass their boards until at least the second time. It's very common these days to apply for several years before getting in, and in many respects it is unfair to otherwise qualified applicants.

 

[sprinkibrio]

There are some people who fail and leave or fail and re do a year or so. There are a handful of these people who were originally in my class and are now a class below, or have quit altogether. Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

Subjective strengther over here doing just fine in med school.

 

[kypdurron5]

Sometimes I think the only thing keeping some people in school is the fact that we've been in school all our lives and have no disposable income or marketable skill. It's how the "man" keeps the med student masses in check. LOL

Tell me about it. I've been desperately seeking a job for the last 2 months that I can do until med school starts. I've applied everywhere including Wal-Mart and a local grocery store. I think that perhaps my degree is actually stopping me from getting certain low-level positions because they know I'm not going to be there forever (despite what I may or may not tell them 😉). On the higher end there just seem to be so few jobs available right now. So I'm working for 2 temp agencies with which I've had 2, 4 hour assignments in the past 2 months. One was manning a video game demo in a retail store, and the other was printing envelopes for a lawyer. Total profit? $80.

So it pretty much all comes down to my tried and true consistent income- donating plasma twice a week for $50. This is what I went to college for.

 

[sprinkibrio]

Along these lines, my personal physician was telling me that his class was really mad when they found out certain "under qualified" individuals had been accepted based on subjective strengths or disadvantages. They made up almost all the students who struggled and didn't pass their boards until at least the second time. It's very common these days to apply for several years before getting in, and in many respects it is unfair to otherwise qualified applicants.

I don't think I'm going out of my way to label him a bit conservative... if you know what I mean. My school's tutoring group is made up of mostly indian girls who probably have had great grades their whole life and many privileges. I would think the more underprivileged, having to work their *** off just to get to this point, would do quite well when pushed. Really, the people who do badly at my school are the ones who have flown through undergrad and never had to work hard or the ones who decide they'd rather be out having fun. I'm sure there are a few whose undergrad's were so bad as not to prepare them, but I think this doctor's sentiment is just generally anti AA.

 

[DoctaJay]

There are some people who fail and leave or fail and re do a year or so. There are a handful of these people who were originally in my class and are now a class below, or have quit altogether. Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

Sucess in medical school is measured by passing the steps, graduating, and matching. It may take some people more than 4 years to get through these steps, but the numbers are pretty good...I think like 98% of the students that start, eventually finish. The adcomms having varying reasons for why they accepted certain people, but if the end point is good, the middle stuff doesnt matter that much. I would argue that not everyone who can handle the courseload will automatically make a good doctor. The reason why medical schools evaluate more than just numbers and tests scores is that they werent happy with the kind of doctors they were putting out. I hear what you are saying in that qualified people shouldnt be passed up, but with so many applying, its bound to happen.

 

[kypdurron5]

I don't think I'm going out of my way to label him a bit conservative... if you know what I mean. My school's tutoring group is made up of mostly indian girls who probably have had great grades their whole life and many privileges. I would think the more underprivileged, having to work their *** off just to get to this point, would do quite well when pushed. Really, the people who do badly at my school are the ones who have flown through undergrad and never had to work hard or the ones who decide they'd rather be out having fun. I'm sure there are a few whose undergrad's were so bad as not to prepare them, but I think this doctor's sentiment is just generally anti AA.

I don't disagree with that, but there's nothing wrong with being anti-AA, especially when it comes to med school admissions where there are far more compelling factors to consider than race, disadvantages, alternative strengths, etc. The situation he mentioned wasn't just a general sentiment though- they really didn't know that some underqualified students had been accepted until some point during 4th year, and it was only at that time that they found out they were also the ones struggling the most/failing. Keep in mind this is a smaller school many years ago. Today we freely accept that fact that we may be discriminated for OR against because of AA, but we all have to hope that somehow it's for the best on a larger scale.

 

[DoctaJay]

Hi I was reading the post and I was just wondering whether the people who couldn't handle the academic stress in your med school and had to drop out were URM?
The reason i am asking it is because I have heared some people complain about URM who were accepted into a certain school and then quit after the first year/semester.
I am not racist or anything but I am interested to know whether its the case in other schools.
Thanks

People of all different races start medical school and quit because they didnt like it. Its not limited to URMs. 20 people had to repeat last year at LLU and none of them were URMs (or at least visibly looked like URMs), but of course my example is anecdotal, like your friends example. Each school will have a different subset of students that repeat or quit each year.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Granted, you need to pass medical school and the boards, but it's not all about who is getting high scores on tests. Nobody gives a rats *** whether you were an A, B, or C student in your didactic years of medical school. You want to produce people that can both understand disease and help people navigate their way through their disease back to health, which requires a mixture of talents. Just having people that do well on exams and boards isn't going to produce the best clinicians. As my professors and future medical colleagues keep telling our class time and time again, you are here to learn more than just what's in text books and on multiple-guess exams. It's also about being competent AND understanding the human condition.

I know that in my class, we've had three people drop out. One at the very beginning, didn't want to be a doctor. Another left because of pregnancy, will be back next year. Another left for personal reasons. I know a few will repeat next year and maybe just a course over the summer (not me, hopefully, cross my fingers), and a couple from the second years will rejoin my class next year.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

There are plenty of documented reasons that confirm why admissions committees have broadened the qualities of what they are looking for in candidates besides straight A students. A lot of that has to do with the fact they were graduating a bunch of straight A students with no social skills whatsoever cause all they'd ever done in their lives was read books and take tests. Those "strong students" were NOT great physicians (clinicians, really).
If you want schools to go back to accepting "only the best students" from a preclinical standpoint, you are missing the point entirely, since very often, those who find years 1 & 2 difficult, find years 3 & 4 a breeze - and fly passed all those straight A test takers.
Plenty of people that leave medical school, residency, and practice were just these "perfect" students - and not those with 'subjective strengths'. Some schools are more likely to suspend students that are doing fine academically but have serious professional behavior issues.
Just like MANY other occupations, there simply aren't enough seats to go around for everyone that wants one. That's how it goes.

 

[HEADintheCLOUDS]

3 students left after first block leave of abscense to "find themselves"
9 failed every system we have had (3 systems so far)-----may not be the same ones though!

How do oyu guys know who failed and if they are URM?

 

[coldweatherblue]

People of all different races start medical school and quit because they didnt like it. Its not limited to URMs. 20 people had to repeat last year at LLU and none of them were URMs (or at least visibly looked like URMs), but of course my example is anecdotal, like your friends example. Each school will have a different subset of students that repeat or quit each year.

wow, 20/~170!! that ratio is a little too high for my liking. Was it just a bad year? I know there are some changes being made to the curriculum but still 12% of the class shouldn't be repeating.. I'm in LLU c/o 2012, btw.

 

[mTOR]

I'm a 1st year and so far we have lost 5 students from our class due to poor grades (going from Fall to Spring), and 2 current students are repeating the year from the previous class (C/O 2010). Few thoughts about my class that ran cross my mind while reading this thread:

We have:
1) 2 students repeating the year originally from the c/o 2010 -- 1 is east asian the other is of south asian descent (i.e., No URM)
2) of the URM students we do have, NONE have failed out
3) The URMs in my class have MCAT scores ranging from 27 on up, all of them are doing QUITE well
4) Of the 5 students we have lost so far, a couple were asian, 1 was south asian, the rest were white
5) Of the 5 students we have lost so far, one had a 38 MCAT (this individual apparently studied for the MCAT for a great length of time, the time constraint of med school was his biggest obstacle)
6) 3 of the 5 have physician parents (not trying to imply anything here though, take it for what its worth)


Clearly @ my school, preconceptions and stereotypes on "qualified candidacy" have been shattered. Although, obviously my school may say nothing about the overall trend -- it would be interesting if someone could cite med school attrition studies within this thread.

 

[DoctaJay]

wow, 20/~170!! that ratio is a little too high for my liking. Was it just a bad year? I know there are some changes being made to the curriculum but still 12% of the class shouldn't be repeating.. I'm in LLU c/o 2012, btw.

It is pretty high, but its not normal and I don't think anyone knows why it happened. Oddly enough, the class of 2010 had the highest MCAT averages in the history of LLU SOM, yet 20 repeated (out of 190 something not 170). I talked to some of them, and for some of them, histology really messed them up, for others it was patient diagnosis, for some it was understanding your patient (Behavioral Medicine). Regardless of how it happened, when they told our class that 20 folks from the previous year would be in our class, it put the fear of God in us, and although our class has a lower MCAT average, I think we will end up with much less repeats. But trust me, LLU isn't a school that trys to fail you. Non of the classes are malignantly hard.

The only person that I know has left so far in our class was asian, but I'm not sure what the reasons were.

 

[OncoCaP]

There are few similar legitimate opportunities leading to a respected profession or graduate degree where so many people who come in make it through successfully. Based on the graduation stats I've seen, med schools have very good formulas for figuring out who to admit. If you make it in, you have an amazing amount of work ahead of you, but you'll almost certainly make it through. My administration / profs really put a lot of effort into making sure everyone makes it through. That said, fasten your seat belt and get ready to do a lot of studying.

Here is a reference you'll probably find helpful. Essentially about 2% leave for academic reasons when you look at med schools overall. There might be better data available somewhere else as well.

http://www.aamc.org/data/aib/aibissues/aibvol7_no2.pdf

 

[mTOR]

Here is a reference you'll probably find helpful. Essentially about 2% leave for academic reasons when you look at med schools overall. There might be better data available somewhere else as well.

http://www.aamc.org/data/aib/aibissues/aibvol7_no2.pdf

Good stuff 👍

It would be interesting if they had a more updated similar report (i.e., attrition rates by race) for each school or at least, NON-HBCU institutions. I'm willing to wager the URM attrition would be dramatically lower; Haha I wouldn't be suprised at all if HBCU attrition makes up the vast majority of total black med student attrition .

In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if the higher you go up the US News list of top 50 med schools that there begins a shift to URM OVERREPRESENTATION for measures of high academic performance (e.g., being in the top 1/3rd of their class, AOA, etc.) -- it certainly seems to be the case @ my school, and I'm hearing that to some extent, at least anecdotally, this seems to be the case at other schools as well. Stereotype threat will go a long ways in pushing someone to overachieve (or at least contributing to it).

 

[mtDNA]

There are plenty of documented reasons that confirm why admissions committees have broadened the qualities of what they are looking for in candidates besides straight A students. A lot of that has to do with the fact they were graduating a bunch of straight A students with no social skills whatsoever cause all they'd ever done in their lives was read books and take tests. Those "strong students" were NOT great physicians (clinicians, really).
If you want schools to go back to accepting "only the best students" from a preclinical standpoint, you are missing the point entirely, since very often, those who find years 1 & 2 difficult, find years 3 & 4 a breeze - and fly passed all those straight A test takers.
Plenty of people that leave medical school, residency, and practice were just these "perfect" students - and not those with 'subjective strengths'. Some schools are more likely to suspend students that are doing fine academically but have serious professional behavior issues.
Just like MANY other occupations, there simply aren't enough seats to go around for everyone that wants one. That's how it goes.

I am not saying that test scores and grades are the only things that should be evaluated. If someone had a stellar MCAT, but nothing else on his/her application, that person would lack important life experiences, probably would be pretty immature, and should not be accepted. I personally believe that adcoms should look to make sure that the subjective qualities and experiences are there, nobody should be accepted without them...but, once the applicant reaches the threshold for these activities, objective criteria should be used as the tiebreaker to decide who gets in. Right now, the way it works is the opposite of this: The adcoms look to see that grades and test scores are "good enough" and then they try to determine who gets in based on who has better experiences. Is it really fair for them to say that they will accept applicant A over applicant B because they think his/her volunteer work in brazil was more significant than the other applicants volunteer in africa? or because applicant A has been out of school for a few years, assume that he/she is more mature and make the decisiion based on that? I don't think this is the best way to determine who will be our future physicians...

 

[gujuDoc]

I know 4 people who ave quit med school. Two decided part way through 1st year that they didn't think medicine was for them afterall and jumped ship before they got in too deep. One went into social work and the other into research. I wasn't close to either one but knew of them through chance meetings.

One person I went to undergrad with quite and recently decided to try to do a masters in biology. Another person I know failed his boards 3 tims and was told never to come back. he was only doing medicine for his parents and didn't even really put effort into studying for the boards. so it was a clean break for him. he's now doing research as well.

 

[gujuDoc]

Along these lines, my personal physician was telling me that his class was really mad when they found out certain "under qualified" individuals had been accepted based on subjective strengths or disadvantages. They made up almost all the students who struggled and didn't pass their boards until at least the second time. It's very common these days to apply for several years before getting in, and in many respects it is unfair to otherwise qualified applicants.

Of the 3 people whom I have known who have had to repeat a year. One of them being the one who dropped out; only one struggled in ugrad (with MCAT) and ironically he didn't fail because of inability of skills but he had to pull himself out because of health issues leading to surgery during the middle of the year. The one who had the highest grades and MCAT scores and who you would predict most likely to succeed is the one who failed and repeated and then dropped out eventually. Of the 3rd case, she slightly struggled with the MCAT but she's doing fine in med school after pulling herself out the first time due to burn out. She's got it together.

Med school is a tough transition even for the best of the best. A lot of people have never known failure til they reached med school and its hard to cope with many times for those who are used to knowing every detail and every fact before a test and realizing there is too much to know it all no matter how hard you study.

 

[Jwax]

If you want schools to go back to accepting "only the best students" from a preclinical standpoint, you are missing the point entirely, since very often, those who find years 1 & 2 difficult, find years 3 & 4 a breeze - and fly passed all those straight A test takers.

God I hope that's true.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I am not saying that test scores and grades are the only things that should be evaluated. If someone had a stellar MCAT, but nothing else on his/her application, that person would lack important life experiences, probably would be pretty immature, and should not be accepted. I personally believe that adcoms should look to make sure that the subjective qualities and experiences are there, nobody should be accepted without them...but, once the applicant reaches the threshold for these activities, objective criteria should be used as the tiebreaker to decide who gets in. Right now, the way it works is the opposite of this: The adcoms look to see that grades and test scores are "good enough" and then they try to determine who gets in based on who has better experiences. Is it really fair for them to say that they will accept applicant A over applicant B because they think his/her volunteer work in brazil was more significant than the other applicants volunteer in africa? or because applicant A has been out of school for a few years, assume that he/she is more mature and make the decisiion based on that? I don't think this is the best way to determine who will be our future physicians...

Sorry I misunderstood you before.

I do think that there is some truth to what you're saying, but I don't think it is as much like that as you're making it out to be. That is, I don't think it's entirely OPPOSITE.

All in all, if you removed those who DON'T have the minimal test performance, and grades, and experiences, etc., etc....there are STILL more applicants that can get the grades, and the test scores, and have had some pretty interesting and unique other experiences than there is room for in every accepted class. It's just the way it is. So it probably DOES come down to subjective decisions.

I doubt it's things like trip; to africa vs. 3 years out of undergrad. This is where the impressions people make on interviews come in, and that more likely be a 'tiebreaker'.

 

[DrDude]

/

 

[tacrum43]

since very often, those who find years 1 & 2 difficult, find years 3 & 4 a breeze - and fly passed all those straight A test takers.

I find this difficult to believe. More likely, the people who make the enormous effort to get a lot of Honors/A's during the 1st two years will still be the same smart, motivated students when they get to the clinical years. Sure, there's probably some who shine during the clinical years and just passed the first two years, and vice versa, but the majority will likely stay about where they were before.

 

[poloace]

people quite for a number of reasons - i knew a guy who quit because he realized his passion was teaching rather than being taught.

p

 

[78222]

There are some people who fail and leave or fail and re do a year or so. There are a handful of these people who were originally in my class and are now a class below, or have quit altogether. Here is the problem: some med students get into school by haveing subjective strengths in spite of weak test scores and grades. Everyone acts so surprise when these people struggle, but really it is no surprise at all. I think it is too bad, because there are more than enough people who are very strong academically who apply every year, but schools still take candidates who are underqualified in this respect. It sucks, because in my class there are about 5-6 spots that could have been occupied by someone who could easily carry the load, but instead they did not get accepted...also, the class below me now has these people in it automatically, which takes up even more spots for next year...Personally I think we need a better way to choose our future doctors. Right now, we are choosing them based on attributes that have little to do with how strong of a student they will be, and more importantly, they have little to do with how good of a physician they will become.

I disagree entirely. Just because someone struggles during the first two years does not mean they will not be a good doctor. I know people in my class who are straight A students, yet are idiots when it comes to communication and dealing with other people. The first two years has been mostly the memorization of factoids in my opinion - and the boards seems to be more of the same. Further, I think anyone with half a brain can pass the first two years if they are willing to put in the work. Some people will have to study their asses off to survive, while others can get by with much less. I've been pretty successful academically my first two years, but I don't think that will necesarrily make me a better physician than my classmates who have struggled a little bit more.

btw, of the people I've known who quit - one was a 4.0 biochem major who just decided he hated medicine and wanted to pursue something else (I dont really know the story behind the others that quit, but I doubt it was due to a failure of intelligence). Medical school ends up being a lot more taxing than you could have ever imagined as a premed and if you arent totally committed - you will fail or quit.

 

[haveaniceday]

people quite for a number of reasons - i knew a guy who quit because he realized his passion was teaching rather than being taught.

p

Um, to teach don't you first need to be taught? The best educators understand that you must continually be taught by others to effectively teach.

Medicine is the ultimate "teaching" profession, be it in the classroom, to trainees below you in a clinical setting, your patients, the general public...the list goes on and on. If that is indeed why your friend quit, that is tragic.

Unless he wants to teach kindergarten or something.

 

[lankysudanese]

Hi I was reading the post and I was just wondering whether the people who couldn't handle the academic stress in your med school and had to drop out were URM?
The reason i am asking it is because I have heared some people complain about URM who were accepted into a certain school and then quit after the first year/semester.
I am not racist or anything but I am interested to know whether its the case in other schools.

How do oyu guys know who failed and if they are URM?

why all the focus on URMs? i thought this discussion was about the reasons that led PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY QUIT MED SCHOOL to actually throwing in the towel. and since none of the posters (so far) have commented on the ethnicity/background of any of their fellow classmates who have quit, then we should leave such a topic out of the discussion b/c it comes off as racist even if "you are not a racist". Lets keep it civil and clean boys.

 

[45408]

since very often, those who find years 1 & 2 difficult, find years 3 & 4 a breeze - and fly passed all those straight A test takers.

I doubt that. None of the upper classmen at my school have ever agreed with this statement as a general principle. M3/M4 still have plenty of exams, and shelf exams have a pretty harsh reputation. Furthermore, if you did well in your first two years, you probably know a lot of things that will help you on the wards.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I doubt that. None of the upper classmen at my school have ever agreed with this statement as a general principle. M3/M4 still have plenty of exams, and shelf exams have a pretty harsh reputation. Furthermore, if you did well in your first two years, you probably know a lot of things that will help you on the wards.

Well you're not talking about a large sample size, either. Doubt it all you want to. People who only know how to be good students on paper often fumble when they get into clinic. It's a known fact.
The administration, deans, faculty, academic affairs people here and at several schools I have been to have echoed what I said previously. People who are good in classrooms OFTEN struggle in the clinical setting. Those with more life experience OFTEN honor in the clinical setting, even if they struggled in the classroom years.

 

[45408]

Well you're not talking about a large sample size, either. Doubt it all you want to. People who only know how to be good students on paper often fumble when they get into clinic. It's a known fact.

If it were a known fact, I would know it, wouldn't I? Rather, I think it's a widely propagated myth.

Those with more life experience OFTEN honor in the clinical setting, even if they struggled in the classroom years.

You're committing the correlation = causation fallacy here. Those with life experience are doing well with people because they have more life experience, not BECAUSE they did poorly in the classroom years.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I doubt that. None of the upper classmen at my school have ever agreed with this statement as a general principle. M3/M4 still have plenty of exams, and shelf exams have a pretty harsh reputation. Furthermore, if you did well in your first two years, you probably know a lot of things that will help you on the wards.

I've got to say this mirrors what I've heard, too. The top students generally stay there. One thing to note is that even in subjective evaluations, there's going to be a strong knowledge component, so if you study and know things, you're going to be more impressive. And yes, shelf exams are generally a big component of clinical grades.

I've got to admit I'm also just generally bugged by the false notion that people who are good at academic work are bad at other things. I hate to say it, but it just reeks of jealousy.

 

[Orthodoc40]

If it were a known fact, I would know it, wouldn't I? Rather, I think it's a widely propagated myth.

You're committing the correlation = causation fallacy here. Those with life experience are doing well with people because they have more life experience, not BECAUSE they did poorly in the classroom years.

Well, you are implying that you know everything that is well known, and since you don't believe it, it is a myth. It may be a myth, but not because you don't believe it.

There are a lot of people that want to think they will always be at the top of their class, and can't stand the idea that they might actually struggle during clinical years. We'll see, though - won't we?

I'm just repeating what admissions and deans tell me. Sorry that you think you know more, but my guess is they've seen a lot more medical student trends over the years than either of us.

Whatever. This is well past the OP's point.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I've got to admit I'm also just generally bugged by the false notion that people who are good at academic work are bad at other things. I hate to say it, but it just reeks of jealousy.

I don't think it is a truth across the board by any means, but it isn't an entirely false notion. There are already several in my class that are doing great in classwork and barely getting by on the clinical skills side of things. There are also some that are struggling academically and doing great in clinical skills. And there are many who are doing great at both.

 

[45408]

I don't think it is a truth across the board by any means, but it isn't an entirely false notion. There are already several in my class that are doing great in classwork and barely getting by on the clinical skills side of things. There are also some that are struggling academically and doing great in clinical skills. And there are many who are doing great at both.

I'm certainly not denying that there can be (and often is) a disparity between testing ability and bedside manner, but your original comment implied that being good at one often means being poor at the other, which I think is ridiculous. Your administration may have some recall bias in that they remember the cases in which someone honored everything until their clinicals, at which point they fell flat on their faces, and vice versa. I just don't think there's much of a correlation.

 

[H_Caulfield]

People of all different races start medical school and quit because they didnt like it. Its not limited to URMs. 20 people had to repeat last year at LLU and none of them were URMs (or at least visibly looked like URMs), but of course my example is anecdotal, like your friends example. Each school will have a different subset of students that repeat or quit each year.

This is true, but to pretend that URMs accepted to med school don't have lower stats on average is like staring at an elephant in your living room while trying to deny that it's there. Yes, of the four people I know who are retaking classes... 3 are URMs.

In some degree of agreement with DoctaJay, the 4th is a white girl. Everyone is capable of struggling, but if we're willing to be honest...a 28 on the MCAT is more likely to put a URM into an american med school than a white male. These people may go on to struggle with the curriculum. If anyone won't admit to this it's just silly immaturity.

 

[Jwax]

I've got to admit I'm also just generally bugged by the false notion that people who are good at academic work are bad at other things. I hate to say it, but it just reeks of jealousy.

Indeed. Those of us who are used to being smarter than everyone else until we got into medical school have to have something to look forward to, and the idea that we may be better in clinical medicine than the classroom is just the thing to cling to. In my opinion, as the generations have gone by, people have become more and more capable of a variety of things. It used to be (at least the myth that I've noticed) that all the really smart folks were incredibly nerdy and socially ******ed (and often unattractive). Many med students (i.e. smart folks...) nowadays are good looking, excel in academics, excel in clinical medicine, and are very normal socially. So... as nice of a thought as it would be that our top classmates will be passed over by us mediocre performers in the clinical years, the status quo is that whatever your rank at the end of your first two years of medical school will be very similar to your rank at the end of all 4 years.

However, in my opinion, this has nothing to do with how good of a doctor one becomes. Ability to memorize a billion details that have little relevance on every day practice of medicine has little correlation with ability to treat patients day in and day out. They probably will make a better academic physician, though. I think pretty much most of us that get through medical school will be good doctors if we try to be... and if we don't do drugs or drink while working...