Any one else finding the MCAT pointless and unjust?

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what's wrong with you???

they closed the thread becuase it was pointless, i hope the mods ban u for life
 
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Now I get to look at "anyone" spelled as 2 words instead of red... haha just making fun.
 
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Pointless - no

Unjust - no

But i'm a bit of a masochist, so who can say?

You can make the same argument about grades in general though.

If you can't handle this med school will be a great time for you.

T-Minus 3 days for me!
 
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utahjazz said:
Speaking of pointless...
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No kidding... dude, instead of starting these worthless threads and bitching about things you can't change, why don't you study for your "pointless" MCAT? Maybe if you spent more time studying and less time whining, you'd actually do well :idea:.
 
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Corpus Callosum said:
They close the first thread, we'll open another one, why not,:laugh::laugh:
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I feel the MCAT is biased toward people who can read fast and have excellent mastery of the English language. I do well on the PS because I don't have to read the passages in great details. Many of the PS passages have nothing to do with the questions. On the BS, the passages are quite dense. Because I am a slow reader, timing is very tight for me. The VR is the worst section for me. If I can understand the passages then I can answer the questions. The MCAT often throws in several hard passages (such as philosophy ir literary analysis) that I have no idea what it meant and how to answer the questions.

I think that the VR should be taken out of the MCAT and replace with a section something similar to the USMLE Step 1 type of questions.
 
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QofQuimica said:
Folks,

The OP would like to discuss the unjustness and pointlessness of the MCAT. Please keep your posts on topic and avoid personal attacks.
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Exactly, you see who is attacking who? :laugh::laugh:
This is exactly why I opened this thread besides wanting to debate the MCAT uselessness, and to illustrate to you the animosity of some of those posters.
 
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BlueCow said:
I feel the MCAT is biased toward people who can read fast and have excellent mastery of the English language. I do well on the PS because I don't have to read the passages in great details. Many of the PS passages have nothing to do with the questions. On the BS, the passages are quite dense. Because I am a slow reader, timing is very tight for me. The VR is the worst section for me. If I can understand the passages then I can answer the questions. The MCAT often throws in several hard passages (such as philosophy ir literary analysis) that I have no idea what it meant and how to answer the questions.

I think that the VR should be taken out of the MCAT and replace with a section something similar to the USMLE Step 1 type of questions.
Click to expand...


Exactly that has been my point all along, I am a very slow reader and not a native speaker. I strongly feel that this MCAT is biased specificlaly when it comes to VR section, most of the times I do not understand the passage either. I feel there is nothing wrong with my reasoning abilities, but that is not what this section is testing in my case, more so the speed of reading and comprehension, but you hit the right strings thanks for your comment
 
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SpartanBlueJay2 said:
No kidding... dude, instead of starting these worthless threads and bitching about things you can't change, why don't you study for your "pointless" MCAT? Maybe if you spent more time studying and less time whining, you'd actually do well :idea:.
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Control-Alt-Ignore
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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Well, consider the goal of the admissions committees: They want people who can jump through incredibly pointless hoops. They want people who will be able to handle almost any situation thrown at them *including* incredibly boring and difficult to understand reading topics.

Being in medical school will require a student to intake a large quantity of information in a reasonably short period of time (unless you just spend 100% of your time studying -- not recommended). A deficiency in absorption and comprehension of large quantities of material in English will NOT be good for med school. Our medical schools are American, English medical schools that are meant to help our own culture. Seeing as how a majority of it is English (except some parts of southern florida, southern texas, etc), it is definitely appropriate for our medical schools to teach this way.

Thus, I think it is absolutely appropriate to have the VR section of the MCAT.

As far as having questions similar to Step 1, that would weed out too many applicants that the medical schools want. They are also looking for students who are well diversified, not those who are specialized already in medicine. That's what med school is for: specialization. (hence, Step 1 after 2 years of it)
 
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Take out the VR section of the MCAT? Are you kidding me? Reading med school text books is some of the most dense reading you will ever encounter in your life. I think the VR section is very important.
 
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J DUB said:
Hey everyone, I learned something interesting today in my OTC class.

We got to see an actual "douche bag".

Have any of you seen one lately?


Also, I need a good "tool" to start doing some threading. Anyone know of a good "tool" to get the job the done?

Thanks,:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

J DUB, I *heart* you 😀
 
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Corpus Callosum said:
[/color]

Exactly that has been my point all along, I am a very slow reader and not a native speaker. I strongly feel that this MCAT is biased specificlaly when it comes to VR section, most of the times I do not understand the passage either. I feel there is nothing wrong with my reasoning abilities, but that is not what this section is testing in my case, more so the speed of reading and comprehension, but you hit the right strings thanks for your comment
Click to expand...

People's perceptions and opinions are shaped by their experiences. Don't expect people who didn't have to learn English fairly late in life to understand where you are coming from. They would only agree with you if they were in your situation, which they are not. If situations were reversed, they will be writing the posts you are writing, and you'll be replying the way they are replying.
 
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Corpus Callosum said:
They close the first thread, we'll open another one, why not,:laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

Although your frustration is understandable, how is this helping you or others? In general, it seems whining only wastes time away from actually doing the work needed to improve, as difficult and impossible it may seem to be. (Believe me I know since I've been whining for the past 3 days over my verbal practice results - alas 3 days wasted)

I must say if this test is unjust, I suggest you write a version of the MCAT you feel is most fair and send it to AAMC for approval. Since you seem to have extensive scientific background, I'm sure they might consider it. I am struggling through this test too, so if you made it easier, and I do well on it then I guess that would make it fair.....
 
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The MCAT is biased towards those who does not have strong reading comprehension, and really there is nothing wrong with that. As a medical student you'll be bombarded with an impossible amount of information to learn, and the faster and better you read, the better you could do.

And dude you don't even have to read that fast to do well on it. I've only started learning English when I was 12 and I got a 10 on verbal, so really, more learning to read and less complaining. It is not about reading FAST, it is about reading WELL. You can read the MCAT verbal at a relatively leisurely pace if you do not have ot refer back to the passage to answer the question. I read slowly, but once i get to the questions I read them once and I just answer it. With this method I finish 5+ minutes early consistently and do okay.

Lastly, Corpus, I've SHOWN you the many many research that suggests MCAT is far from perfect but definitely reasonably predictable. So no it is not pointless and unjust. It is a flawed but useful tool to supplement the GPA as a measuring tool.

At the end of the day, you're competing against other test takers. If you're getting crappy scores, ask "why is it that others got this question right when I got it wrong?"

Lastly, corpus, stop making repeat threads on dead topics. I'm beginning to see why you struggle with this test; you reject logic and reason and prefer to just stick to your opinions while ignoring others' input.

If you're looking for people to agree with you and pet you on the head, get a psychiatrist or call your mom.
 
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If you're having trouble on the MCAT because you're a non-native speaker, then indicate that on your application, perhaps in the personal statement. Non-native speakers have gotten into medical school before, presumably after facing the exact same problem when faced with dense passages. There is a reason that the MCAT is not the determining factor in medical school admissions. Grades are not a reflection of your ability to read quickly; stellar grades can make up for a lower MCAT score. A high MCAT can make up for lower grades--one of my friends who's now a 2nd year in med school had about a 3.15 but a 37 (maybe a 36) on the MCAT. He explained to the admissions folks in his interview that his heavy involvement with a wilderness search and rescue group hurt his grades. They considered that time commitment along with his MCAT score and let him in.

Problems with the English language aside, the test is not pointless. It is the only way you can accurately control for differences across various undergraduate programs. Its correlation coefficient with USMLE Step 1 performance is 0.7. (Add undergrad grades into the mix, and it goes to 0.72). That's a damned good relationship. Most importantly, as a norm-referenced test, it does not test your ability to meet some pre-determined standard set by the AAMC. The bar is set by a couple thousand of your peers--more than enough people to assume little variability in testing ability from administration to administration. If you get a 25 on the test, then 50% of your peers outperformed you. It's as simple as that. If you don't think that being in the 50th percentile accurately describes your abilities, then explain why in your application. If you are correct in your self-assessment, then your grades, personal statement, essays, and letters of recommendation will bear that out.
 
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littlealex said:
The MCAT is biased towards those who does not have strong reading comprehension, and really there is nothing wrong with that. As a medical student you'll be bombarded with an impossible amount of information to learn, and the faster and better you read, the better you could do.

And dude you don't even have to read that fast to do well on it. I've only started learning English when I was 12 and I got a 10 on verbal, so really, more learning to read and less complaining. It is not about reading FAST, it is about reading WELL. You can read the MCAT verbal at a relatively leisurely pace if you do not have ot refer back to the passage to answer the question. I read slowly, but once i get to the questions I read them once and I just answer it. With this method I finish 5+ minutes early consistently and do okay.

Lastly, Corpus, I've SHOWN you the many many research that suggests MCAT is far from perfect but definitely reasonably predictable. So no it is not pointless and unjust. It is a flawed but useful tool to supplement the GPA as a measuring tool.
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when you were 12? That's a very young age. You should be at no disadvantage whatsoever with respect to English. Why are you even bringing it up? You make it sound like you were 22.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
when you were 12? That's a very young age. You should be at no disadvantage whatsoever with respect to English. Why are you even bringing it up? You make it sound like you were 22.
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Actually, the critical period for language acquisition ends at ~ 12yo, so if he only started learning it then, he would never really get the nuances of the language. Hence, he would be at a disadvantage. Or whatever that VR passage in CBT 7 or 8 said...
 
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Cytotoxic said:
Actually, the critical period for language acquisition ends at ~ 12yo, so if he only started learning it then, he would never really get the nuances of the language. Hence, he would be at a disadvantage. Or whatever that VR passage in CBT 7 or 8 said...
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Critical period for language acquisition? Nice choice of words. According to whom does it end at ~ 12? If alexlittle said he started to learn English at 4 years old, would "critical period for language acquisition" end at ~ 4 yo?

How much experience do you have learning foreign languages? English is my 3rd language and I began to learn it at 19. Learning English when you are only 12 is a piece of cake.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
Critical period for language acquisition? Nice choice of words. According to whom does it end at ~ 12? If alexlittle said he started to learn English at 4 years old, would "critical period for language acquisition" end at ~ 4 yo?

How much experience do you have learning foreign languages? English is my 3rd language and I began to learn it at 19. Learning English when you are only 12 is a piece of cake.
Click to expand...

Do a PubMed search for "critical period language"...then talk.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
Learn a foreign language so that you have some first hand experience, then talk.
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1. I have. English is my second language. Oh, and French my third.

2. Please don't argue if all you can provide is anecdotal evidence. Read the linguistics literature, then attack me.
 
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Cytotoxic said:
1. I have. English is my second language. Oh, and French my third.

2. Please don't argue if all you can provide is anecdotal evidence. Read the linguistics literature, then attack me.
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Attack? I am not attacking you any more than you are attacking me. You seem to be big on "research" and "evidence." What evidence do you want?

Some people learn 3 words in some language and call it their 3rd language.

Are you good enough to take a standardized test in French and be competitive with the native speakers of French?
 
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BrokenGlass said:
Attack? I am not attacking you any more than you are attacking me. You seem to be big on "research" and "evidence." What evidence to you want?

Some people learn 3 words in some language and call it their 3rd language.

Are you good enough to take a standardized test in French and be competitive with the native speakers of French?
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No, because - and you'd understand if you actually listened to me - I started learning French in adolescence, past the theorized critical period for learning language. Again, read the literature.
 
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Cytotoxic said:
No, because - and you'd understand if you actually listened to me - I started learning French in adolescence, past the theorized critical period for learning language. Again, read the literature.
Click to expand...


In that case, I speak 43 languages, most of which I picked up in adolescence. "theorized?" I am sure you are aware that a while back people "theorized' the earth was flat. It was in literature. Look it up if you don't believe me.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
Critical period for language acquisition? Nice choice of words. According to whom does it end at ~ 12? If alexlittle said he started to learn English at 4 years old, would "critical period for language acquisition" end at ~ 4 yo?

How much experience do you have learning foreign languages? English is my 3rd language and I began to learn it at 19. Learning English when you are only 12 is a piece of cake.
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Very true, People who start learning English at 12 don't even have an accent by 21, not speculation, I have seen lots of examples, it becomes their native language by the time mcat comes around.
As for experiences shaping my perseptions, BrokenGlass, I am afraid I have to disagree with you on that. My veiws spark from a completely objective unbiased standpoint regardless on my personal standing, trust me, even if I were to be a native speaker, I would definitely acknowledge the unfairness that this tests holds for others.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
In that case, I speak 43 languages, most of which I picked up in adolescence. "theorized?" I am sure you are aware that a while back people "theorized' the earth was flat. It was in literature.
Click to expand...

You're thick. Let me say this one more time. Step-by-step.

1. Read primary literature
2. Look at results
3. Look at methods (were they valid?)
4. Draw informed conclusion (without looking like an ass)
 
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Cytotoxic said:
You're thick. Let me say this one more time. Step-by-step.

1. Read primary literature
2. Look at results
3. Look at methods (were they valid?)
4. Draw informed conclusion (without looking like an ass)
Click to expand...

I have as much faith in "literature" as I have in your posts, your methods, and your results. I feel like you are about to cry. I am sorry I hurt your feelings. Go drink some milk and leave the arguing to people who know what they are talkng about. Otherwise, you look like an ass.
 
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BrokenGlass said:
I have as much faith in "literature" as I have in your posts, your methods, and your results. I feel like you are about to cry. I am sorry I hurt your feelings. Go drink some milk and leave the arguing to people who know what they are talkng about. Otherwise, you look like an ass.
Click to expand...

You're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. But anyway, continue not making any sense.
 
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littlealex said:
The MCAT is biased towards those who does not have strong reading comprehension, and really there is nothing wrong with that. As a medical student you'll be bombarded with an impossible amount of information to learn, and the faster and better you read, the better you could do.

And dude you don't even have to read that fast to do well on it. I've only started learning English when I was 12 and I got a 10 on verbal, so really, more learning to read and less complaining. It is not about reading FAST, it is about reading WELL. You can read the MCAT verbal at a relatively leisurely pace if you do not have ot refer back to the passage to answer the question. I read slowly, but once i get to the questions I read them once and I just answer it. With this method I finish 5+ minutes early consistently and do okay.

Lastly, Corpus, I've SHOWN you the many many research that suggests MCAT is far from perfect but definitely reasonably predictable. So no it is not pointless and unjust. It is a flawed but useful tool to supplement the GPA as a measuring tool.

At the end of the day, you're competing against other test takers. If you're getting crappy scores, ask "why is it that others got this question right when I got it wrong?"

Lastly, corpus, stop making repeat threads on dead topics. I'm beginning to see why you struggle with this test; you reject logic and reason and prefer to just stick to your opinions while ignoring others' input.

If you're looking for people to agree with you and pet you on the head, get a psychiatrist or call your mom.
Click to expand...
I will respond to you on point to point basis when I have time, but for now please lets keep the parents, "mom", out of this, I regard my parents very highly and don't like to drag them into these conversations. Where I come from, we value family tremendously, unlike elsewhere.
As for the psychiatrist, go to MED school become one and then I will hire you:laugh::laugh:
 
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J DUB said:
Hey everyone, I learned something interesting today in my OTC class.

We got to see an actual "douche bag".

Have any of you seen one lately?


Also, I need a good "tool" to start doing some threading. Anyone know of a good "tool" to get the job the done?

Thanks,:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

I love this! 😎
 
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BrokenGlass said:
You should talk about not making sense. That's probably the only thing you are good at.
Click to expand...

Look, I wasn't/am not trying to attack you, and I'm sorry if my statements came across that way. I presented you with a virtually unchallenged theory in neuroscience, and instead of reading up on it and the hordes of evidence supporting it, you dismiss it as crap. Yes, I am big on "research" and "evidence"...welcome to the world of science.
 
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Cytotoxic said:
Look, I wasn't/am not trying to attack you, and I'm sorry if my statements came across that way. I presented you with a virtually unchallenged theory in neuroscience, and instead of reading up on it and the hordes of evidence supporting it, you dismiss it as crap. Yes, I am big on "research" and "evidence"...welcome to the world of science.
Click to expand...

Think of me as Galileo Galilei who doesn't believe your virutally unchallenged theory if it makes you feel any better.
 
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J DUB said:
Hey everyone, I learned something interesting today in my OTC class.

We got to see an actual "douche bag".

Have any of you seen one lately?


Also, I need a good "tool" to start doing some threading. Anyone know of a good "tool" to get the job the done?

Thanks,:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

LOL- One of the funniest posts I have read here.
 
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Cytotoxic said:
Look, I wasn't/am not trying to attack you, and I'm sorry if my statements came across that way. I presented you with a virtually unchallenged theory in neuroscience, and instead of reading up on it and the hordes of evidence supporting it, you dismiss it as crap. Yes, I am big on "research" and "evidence"...welcome to the world of science.
Click to expand...
And that "unchallenged neuroscience theory" just so conveniently happened to match littlealex's age of learning English at 12 years old? What a coincidence,:laugh::laugh:
 
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BrokenGlass said:
Think of me as Galileo Galilei who doesn't believe your virutally unchallenged theory if it makes you feel any better.
Click to expand...

Except Galileo Galilei did actual science, from which you seem quite far removed; or you're trolling. Either way, I'll let someone else continue this argument if he/she feels the need.
 
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Cytotoxic said:
Except Galileo Galilei did actual science, from which you seem quite far removed; or you're trolling. Either way, I'll let someone else continue this argument if he/she feels the need.
Click to expand...

I have done more science and have taken more science classes than you. Much like your picture, you are still green. You'll learn. Give it time.
 
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J DUB said:
Hey everyone, I learned something interesting today in my OTC class.

We got to see an actual "douche bag".

Have any of you seen one lately?


Also, I need a good "tool" to start doing some threading. Anyone know of a good "tool" to get the job the done?

Thanks,:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

Lol, I spy a "douche" with my little eye...
 
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