Any other recovering alcoholics ? discuss on application

[FreeMeDoctor]

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My premed advisor told me i should explain why I had a 1.5 GPA for my first two years of college then had a 3.95 for the last two years of UG and for two years of post-bac. The reason I had a 1.5 for two years was because I was drunk most of the time. After I got sober I was a good student. This needs to be addressed in my application but I just dont know quite how to address it. Any ideas ?

 

[jochi1543]

No, I wouldn't discuss it.

 

[Team Zissou]

i dont think i would go as far as telling them you were an alcoholic. just say u were partying way too much and it took you a while to set your priorities straight. it seems that you have a solid gpa for the last two years so you definitely have an upward trend going for you.

 

[HailMary]

Congrats on your sobriety! I'd say you have to explain the grades, but maybe say that you had a serious health problem/illness that kept you from being able to perform in school. You probably don't have to get any more specific than that if you don't want to.

 

[Depakote]

i dont think i would go as far as telling them you were an alcoholic. just say u were partying way too much and it took you a while to set your priorities straight. it seems that you have a solid gpa for the last two years so you definitely have an upward trend going for you.

I agree. Saying you're an alcoholic says you have issues with chemical dependancy and addiction... they're not going to jump at the chance to give you access to powerful narcotics and put you in a pressure-cooker where even people with no history of chemical dependancy are at a higher risk.

Saying you were immature, and then realized your goal in life... this is something they can understand.

 

[Meatwad]

Go with immaturity, even though that's not exactly true (alcoholism DNE immaturity, at least not real alcoholism).

If you say you had a serious health issue, schools may think to themselves: "If we admit this guy/girl, what happens if they get sick again? Obviously the last time they were ill, it was a two year ordeal. It was something that encompassed their whole life, to the point where they almost flunked out of school"

Illnesses are many times chronic. A school could be afriad of a relapse, like I illustrated above. 9 times out of 10, though, immaturity is not something that one reverts to. They will see you obviously turned your life around for the better. For this reason, I think going with immaturity as your excuse will be a stronger case.

BTW, are you doing an SMP? With 2 years (roughly 60 credits?) at a 1.5 followed by 60 credits at a 3.95, you have a cum. gpa somewhere around a 2.7, correct? Chances are slim with those stats, regardless of a trend.

 

[TCIrish03]

Alcoholics are always alcoholics. It's an addictive disorder. An alcoholic may never drink again, but it always stays with you. If you mention alcoholism, it will be a deterrent. It will throw up more red flags concerning your ability to handle stress.

I am willing to bet that, like me, you aren't and never were an alcoholic anyway, but in the transition from highschool to college you were immature, had poor time management skills, thought you could coast like in high school, and didn't have your priorities straight. You overcame those, not alcoholism.

My premed advisor told me i should explain why I had a 1.5 GPA for my first two years of college then had a 3.95 for the last two years of UG and for two years of post-bac. The reason I had a 1.5 for two years was because I was drunk most of the time. After I got sober I was a good student. This needs to be addressed in my application but I just dont know quite how to address it. Any ideas ?

 

[DayDune]

First, I would completely ignore what most people are saying here...that you should not tell them about your past problems with alcohol. By going through the 'recovery process', people can learn a lot about life. I'm sure that you can write a very nice personal statement explaining what you've learned, and I am sure that the ADCOMs will look quite favorably upon it. Fighting alcoholism/addiction can be very difficult, and if you got over it and truly recovered, then it shows some very good qualities about yourself. A 1.5 gpa is going to be pretty tough to explain away and saying that it was just immaturity is going to make them roll their eyes. Talking about something that was actually a serious problem is def better than saying you were immature and drank a lot.

You def want to make sure the adcom has confidence in you and knows that you learned a lot from your mistakes. I think being upfront about your performance your first two years of school is by far the best way to go. Just be sure to tell them how AND why you've changed! Good luck...

 

[DayDune]

I agree. Saying you're an alcoholic says you have issues with chemical dependancy and addiction... they're not going to jump at the chance to give you access to powerful narcotics and put you in a pressure-cooker where even people with no history of chemical dependancy are at a higher risk.

Saying you were immature, and then realized your goal in life... this is something they can understand.

No, I wouldn't discuss it.

I'm really disheartened that "Advisors" would give this kind of "advice".

 

[jrklein]

First, I would completely ignore what most people are saying here...that you should not tell them about your past problems with alcohol. By going through the 'recovery process', people can learn a lot about life. I'm sure that you can write a very nice personal statement explaining what you've learned, and I am sure that the ADCOMs will look quite favorably upon it. Fighting alcoholism/addiction can be very difficult, and if you got over it and truly recovered, then it shows some very good qualities about yourself. A 1.5 gpa is going to be pretty tough to explain away and saying that it was just immaturity is going to make them roll their eyes. Talking about something that was actually a serious problem is def better than saying you were immature and drank a lot.

You def want to make sure the adcom has confidence in you and knows that you learned a lot from your mistakes. I think being upfront about your performance your first two years of school is by far the best way to go. Just be sure to tell them how AND why you've changed! Good luck...

totally agree with this statement... adcoms want to see that you've learned things during your college expirience. Addressing a problem, and showing them that you were able to conquer it, shows a great deal of self determination. From what I've seen, adcoms loves to see a person who is determined.

 

[Depakote]

I'm really disheartened that "Advisors" would give this kind of "advice".

Physicians are statistically more likely than any other profession to have problems with addiction. They have knowledge and they have access.

I was told this by in an interview day presentation by an admissions committee member.

I stand by my advice that you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot admitting to a history of substance abuse.

 

[trainride]

Fighting alcoholism/addiction can be very difficult, and if you got over it and truly recovered, then it shows some very good qualities about yourself.

I grew up in a family with alcohol problems and from what I learned from going through the AA process is that no alcoholic is ever recovered. Once an alcoholic you should always consider yourself a recovering alcoholic. I am no expert but showing your knowledge of the recovery process and what your doing to try to prevent a relapse should show a willingness to fight the urge. One day at a time is no joke. Alcoholism is not being immature. It is a disease that people battle everyday. Most people don't know what it is like to wake up wanting a beer or not being able to stop drinking even when its screwing up your life.

 

[benzene21]

i am the sort of person who opts for complete honesty on applications...i have yet to determine if its a good thing or not. haha. but like some other people have said, the whole journey of getting sober was likely an experience that changed your life and made you who you are today; alot of medical schools are interested in knowing who you are and how you became that way.

Personally, if i read that your gpa was low due to problems with alcohol and saw that you cleaned yourself up in two years time, i would be impressed. Alcoholism is something that many people struggle with for their entire lives and the fact that you were able to overcome it in two years and get your life so focused that you are now applying to med schools really says alot about your character. Just saying "i had health problems" doesn't let the person reading your application know just how much of a struggle you had to go through.

obviously, it is 100% your decision, but i think it could only help you. and if a school penalizes you for it, it may not be the sort of place you want to go anyhow. good luck to you and congrats on your sobriety!

 

[aspiring med]

this is a very touchy/weighty question, and given the conflicting advice, go to your school's premed advisor for a better answer. and if you have no trustworthy advisor, even write a med school admissions officer from an anonymous e-mail address and ask them about their feelings toward recovered alcoholics as applicants. this second suggestion may sound weird, but i would recommend writing to an officer at a med school you respect but probably won't apply to.

everybody on this thread has given well-meaning advice, but i think you need someone qualified and experienced to advise you.

 

[IzzyMarieDMD]

there is an essay in the book What I Learned in Medical School written by a recovering alcoholic. She talks about how important it was to keep her recovery a secret from her medical school. This passage seemed especially relevant.

"The medical profession mostly takes a dim view of alcoholism..... Doctors can't be alcoholics; if a doctor with a drinking problem is found out, he or she is often subjected to both formal and informal censure. Of course, the quality of patient care and safety should always be the primary concern, but I think that the medical culture is intolerant of weakness in its members and is therefore unsympathetic."


based on this essay I would say keep your past a secret. if you have truly recovered, then it is your own personal business. I'm not saying that you should lie, but you don't have to give them explicit details.

 

[Dookter]

go to your school's premed advisor for a better answer.

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[benzene21]

haha. yeah medical advisors are not always the biggest help. i do think aspiring med has a good idea with the annonymous email to a med school admissions person thought seeing as they are the ones who make the ultimate decisions.

 

[voirlesetoiles]

Aspiring doc has a great idea about the anonymous email... when you get a response, could you please let us know what they say...

I agree with depakote and jochi about not including the alcholism in your application... It's a huge risk to include it in your PS, it will rub some AdComs members the wrong way... you don't want to have readers a reason to toss your application out of bias.

I agree with DayDune in thinking that you shouldn't hide the past, covering it up as immaturity or excessive partying. That seems worse to me. Alcholism is a real medical dilemma and it takes motivation and strength to recover from it... the experience has been a huge learning experience for you so it should not be disguised as something else.

My *non-expert* advice....

Leave the alcoholism issue completely out of your primary and secondary applications. When you're at a medical school for your interview, the alcholism could be brought up by you when an interviewer will ask about your initial low gpa... And you'll be able to convey your experience and what you learned from it MUCH more effectively in person than on paper.

There's a lot of pressure on you at that point, you have to project yourself in a way that convinces AdComs that you'll avoid falling back into substance abuse... the words need to be carefully chosen and impactful. You have to be very clear on what you learned from your experience and what steps you have taken to assure that the recovery is permanent.

Instead of an interviewer thinking "this person has a history of substance abuse, I wonder how he/she will handle the stress of medical school"... they should think..."this person has overcome alcoholism and has accomplished many things as a competitive medical school applicant despite his/her rocky start, this person understands how to overcome a major problem, recuperate successfully thereafter, and learn from it. what an inspirational story!"

I'm personally amazed by your resilency and dedication to have recovered from the addiction. Way to go!

Opinions lie all over the place, do whatever makes you feel comfortable with your application. And don't let anything hinder your aspirations. 👍

 

[lilnoelle]

Physicians are statistically more likely than any other profession to have problems with addiction. They have knowledge and they have access.

I was told this by in an interview day presentation by an admissions committee member.

I stand by my advice that you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot admitting to a history of substance abuse.

I'm with the other advisors on this one. I would also chalk it up to immaturity for a few reasons. I'm not sure that the Op actually was an alcoholic
If he's not, then he absolutely should not mention it for the reason Depakote mentioned.
If he actually is a recovering alcoholic, then I think he should probably not apply for a few years out. And if thats the case, in a few years when the Op applies, I'm in favor of honesty, but be aware that your past is likely to hurt you in your application cycle. (for the reason Depakote stated)

 

[MossPoh]

This is really a tough question...and one of the better ones asked on the boards lately.

You really have to go with your conscience. Alcoholism is a serious thing, and cleaning up your act shows a tremondous amount of self disicpline and determination. BUT, as stated earlier, doctors are a little more prone to addiction in general. Personally, I'd leave it off the initial application. Then for interview sake I'd think of the most positive phrasing possible. You weren't an "alcoholic", but rather "fell victim to the influences around you" or something like that. Everything can be put in a positive manner....heck, watch "Thank you for smoking" 😛

Props to you for owning up to it as well...there are plenty of people in college that do the same thing and say that it is just because they are young and in college. Best time of our lives wooooooooooooo..........all that crap.

 

[MT2117]

I'm with most of the people who have replied so far. Day Dune, I understand your point, but the fact of the matter is that there will always be bias when it comes to things like this. And although no ADCOM would never admit to it, he/she may hold some bias based on personal feelings towards an admitted alcoholic. And there may come a point when it is down to you and another applicant for an acceptance and you have said that you were an alcoholic and the other person has not. I just think you'll be setting yourself up for something.

Although it's not the same, this is the same advice I got about admitting that I have ADD which was the main cause of my bad first 3 semesters. I could experience the same bias in my case so I never mention it in my PS or anywhere else in my application.

And I'm not saying to lie, because I never did. I explained it as immaturity, lack of structure and focus, and an inability to adjust to the freedoms of college life that gave me my bad start. I think that would be a better way to approach the situation. Anyone who doesn't think there could be some bias among ADCOMs towards alcoholics or other diseases is just naive.

 

[notdeadyet]

I won't make a recommendation about admitting to alcoholism vs. not admitting to alcoholism on your personal statement. It's a tough call, and you can make a good argument either way.

But I very much disagree with folks advising you to claim "immaturity" in the personal statement. Alcoholism has nothing to do with maturity, so making this claim would be a lie.

And immaturity is a bad excuse anyway. Saying, "hey, I was young and foolish" isn't all that compelling to adcoms when you ain't that much older now. Between claiming immaturity and not addressing it at all, you're better off not addressing it. Their assumptions might be better than what you could tell them anyway.

 

[FutureDoctorJ]

My premed advisor told me i should explain why I had a 1.5 GPA for my first two years of college then had a 3.95 for the last two years of UG and for two years of post-bac. The reason I had a 1.5 for two years was because I was drunk most of the time. After I got sober I was a good student. This needs to be addressed in my application but I just dont know quite how to address it. Any ideas ?

DO NOT say you are in recovery. You wont get accepted, no matter what your sponsor says. FORGET IT. I wouldnt even say I partied too much, just that I was immature and didnt take school seriously at 18 years of age. As one other poster stated, saying your alcoholic in recovery opens up a can of worms. Assmumptions like other drug use come into play. Now, having said that, Dr Bob was a drunken dope fiend, but he was already a physician. Keep it simple, and dont go there....Aloha from Hawaii!!

 

[FutureDoctorJ]

I grew up in a family with alcohol problems and from what I learned from going through the AA process is that no alcoholic is ever recovered. Once an alcoholic you should always consider yourself a recovering alcoholic. I am no expert but showing your knowledge of the recovery process and what your doing to try to prevent a relapse should show a willingness to fight the urge. One day at a time is no joke. Alcoholism is not being immature. It is a disease that people battle everyday. Most people don't know what it is like to wake up wanting a beer or not being able to stop drinking even when its screwing up your life.

You are recovered. In AA's BIBLE THE BIG BOOK, it states "We are hundreds of men and women who have RECOVERED". Alcoholism is looked down on by admissions committees. Stating you have were are alcoholic will be your turndown ticket.

 

[FutureDoctorJ]

Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha....wow, thanks, I needed that laugh.

LOL LOL, just reminded me of a rookie cop going to his superior and asking him for a straw to sniff his cocaine he brought into work.....LOL LOL

 

[LizzyM]

Your premed advisor may be intending to include this information in your LOR. So, it may not be a secret for much longer.

That said, a couple years ago I can recall reviewing an application from someone who had an institutional action on their record: being asked to leave an Ivy League school due to a low gpa that was the result of alcoholism. After a year or two (I don't recall) the applicant was permitted to return and put up great numbers, extra-curriculars and all the rest.

The applicant was brutally honest about the reason for the poor showing as a freshman. The LOR backed up the applicant's story and was very positive. I believe that the applicant was recommended for interview -- I don't know the rest.

Recovering alcoholics need to be completely honest with themselves and in their dealings with others. Some schools are open to considering applications from people who have suffered from a chronic illness but who are in remission/recovery.

To the OP: Good luck!

 

[MT2117]

Sorry notdeadyet, I completely disagree. There is a huge difference between an 18 year old entering undergad and a 26 year old who has been in the work force an completed a post bac program and has gone through many life altering experiences. Those 8 years are years of extreme growth in most young people and especially in those that took longer to mature. So I think the "young and immature" idea is extremely relevant.

And immaturity has everything to do with drinking and partying too much in college that eventually affects your studies. I've heard the same advice from directors of admissions of medical schools.

So I wouldn't tell someone not to use these as reasons for early academic troubles... they are completely viable reasons, not excuses.

 

[trevagandalf]

I am no expert in this, but I would say that you should be honest and explain it in you PS. But make sure that you can explain it articulately and that now you have a more mature way of looking at what you did your two years of college and show that you have learned from your mistakes. I think that some of the most convicing PS are written this way and your goal should be to really reach out to the adcoms and make yourself a memorable applicant in a mature way. I think that if all you claim is immaturity, the adcoms will more likely disregard your application due to your low grades because you wouldn't stand out. That's just my opinion, and I'm not an expert at all...

 

[psipsina]

I really think that honesty is the best bet here. If an adcomm is going to be rubbed the wrong way what does it matter if it is in an interview or in the PS? I think a PS from an applicant with a 1.5 for two years that didn't explain said 1.5 would seem really fishy, and if the explanation of "immaturity" was later expanded to alcoholism during an interview I would start to question the applicants honesty and therefore their ability to behave professionally in the future. Though I'm sure honesty will rub some adcoms the wrong way I believe it is the only chance with those who the OP has any chance with.

This is totally based on how I personally would react to such an applicant. No one can say for sure how any adcomm would react but at least this route would have integrity and reflect a capacity to behave in a professional manner.

 

[Ari Gold]

LOL LOL, just reminded me of a rookie cop going to his superior and asking him for a straw to sniff his cocaine he brought into work.....LOL LOL

?? terrible analogy... i think you missed the point---pre-med advisors suck

 

[notdeadyet]

There is a huge difference between an 18 year old entering undergad and a 26 year old who has been in the work force an completed a post bac program and has gone through many life altering experiences. Those 8 years are years of extreme growth in most young people and especially in those that took longer to mature. So I think the "young and immature" idea is extremely relevant.

Agreed. I'm just saying that "young and immature" is not what makes an alcoholic.

And immaturity has everything to do with drinking and partying too much in college that eventually affects your studies.

Agreed. If the OP said that drinking and partying is why he got bad grades, I think it would be valid. But the OP apparently was an alcoholic, which is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[FutureDoctorJ]

?? terrible analogy... i think you missed the point---pre-med advisors suck

No I get the point, but why tell a pre med advisor? Oh well, surfs up now at 1:38 PM HST.....going hit da waves fo relax..

Aloha from Hawaii!!!

 

[fobw]

Here's an older thread on the subject: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=376173