Any shot at surgery?

[dowagerc90]

I love surgery, I have for as long as I can remember.

I guess I am lucky that throughout third year, that feeling has not changed. The problem I am having is deciding if my scores put me in a situation where I can realistically pursue it as a DO student.

Comlex 1: 510
Step 1: 223
Rank: 65th percentile (third quartile)

I don't have any red flags, passed everything first time and I have glowing third year recommendations.

Will honor most likely 3/6 rotations.
Have about 5 posters.
2 publishable projects in the works.
I get along with people well and don't mind working hard.


Do I have any chance? Or am I screwing myself by pursuing a pipe dream.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Your chances at surgery are best with former AOA programs. Personally I think you still have a decent enough chance if you went all in. I mean auditioning like crazy at former AOA programs that are known to be audition heavy, applying to every former AOA program and maybe even a ton of community MD programs as the match data with a 220-229 indicates about a 50% chance, and with the merged match even if you get just a few interviews they would go onto your rank list along with the AOA interviews you get. If I were in your situation that is what I would do, but I'm just an MS-2 interested in surgery and am basing this off of what I've been told by residents and 4th years and not first hand experience so take this as you will.

Do you have any programs affiliated with your school? Maybe reach out to people who matched last year at former AOA programs and see if you can get some advice?

 

[Justabronco]

Things against you:
- being DO
- Step score
- Class rank

Things I would do if I was in your position:
- Do audition rotations (but make sure you are confident you can impress the program, based on your own performance during M3 or M4 home sub-Is)
- Take step 2 seriously and before ERAS is due. You need significant improvement.
- Apply to >100 programs, especially those that have DO residents as well as programs in which your mentors in surgery trained at or programs that matched students from your school previously.

Some programs have step1 cutoff of like 230-240 published on their website, so make sure you go through their site carefully to not waste any money.

 

[Moose A Moose]

You need to audition at “DO friendly” residencies. You need to be a rock star. You need the program director, and his residents, to like you.

You have a shot. Even better if you’re published.

 

[Black Surgeon]

Yes I agree, you have a shot keep your head up

 

[Spectreman]

Would love to get an update from this thread.

I am wanting GS with Step/Level 1 225/508 and Step 2/Level 2 231/pending score. My freaking Step 2 was such a gut punch, I don’t know what happened. I worked my a$$ off, Uworld with second pass of incorrects + Dorian/OME all year + DIT at the start of dedicated as a solid refresher. My LOWEST practice score was 243. UWSA 1 and 2 were 248/250. I walked out feeling like it was tough, but fair. Knew I made a couple mistakes, but figured I comfortably cracked 240. I don’t want to give up on GS, however. Despite Covid I still have 6 auditions lined up at DO friendly places. I have 6 posters (including 2nd place at a colorectal conf), 2 pubs, very good letters including 1 from the past president of ACOS. I am 2nd quartile in rank, did all of med school with 4 kids and still managed to have zero red flags (except my freaking board scores). Already passed the PE so I’ll have no holes in my app. I am willing to prelim, but man there are some horrifying prelim stories on SDN. I would be so grateful if I didn’t have to put my family through that. I’m making an Anki deck from Pocket Pimped now, trying really hard to prepare for these auditions any way I can.

Would really appreciate some success stories, but they sure seem hard to find with my board scores.

 

[Dr. Brandon Green]

When you get the audition month work your tail off, show up early and leave late. Make the residents and fellows if applicable life easier. Don’t slow them down. Be appropriate, professional, and personable. Visit often and give face time to the program for years if able. Stay in contact leading into interviews. Write thank yous, pre round, don’t appear tired, something as simple as the resident prints off a document you jump up and get it for them. In the OR you prepare like you’re future depends on it daily. Be ready for questions to be asked and ask appropriate questions without annoying. Check your ego at the door and be a normal person. As a member of resident selection committee for years now it’s the person not the scores no matter the program. Keep making yourself better everyday.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Wrote this on some other GS forum: my brother is a 3rd year GS resident, and the residency is BRUTAL all the time. Research is pretty much required, and my brother got dinged with a 260 step 1 from a top MD school because his research (pubs and patents) wasn't related to Surgery (he decided on GS at the last minute). He had lots of ECs and Research, 15 interviews, but not at geography he wanted, and got his 3rd choice in GS (though couples matching, so that adds to complexity) . Happy with where they landed, but he is exhausted all the time. His EC now is sleep, has given up his hobbies.

You have kids you won't see for years. Run away, fast and look closer at plenty of other options. Brother's fiance is a radiology resident at the same place, and that is a SWEET residency in terms of lifestyle during residency and after. Pathology is also much better during residency. You have kids, take a path that puts your family first. Can't stress enough that GS is a horrible residency, he is slogging through it, but keeps telling me avoid it at all costs.

And yet.... I know literally 10+ general surgeons with a good home life....

People like to pretend that we don’t know what we are signing up for. Trust me, we know.

 

[Spectreman]

My kids will be happier if their dad has a job he genuinely wants.

 

[Spectreman]

Sorry if I am jaded, but my dad is an MD PhD academic child psychatrist. He relates that he gets more than his share of VIP patient requests from the surgical specialties versus other medical disciplines.

My brother is a surgeon, married with 4 kids. Never needed therapy. Never cheated on his wife. Loves his kids and goes to their sporting events. It’s hard, but it’s not impossible. I’m married with a bunch of kids and just about to graduate from med school. We make it work because we are a team and both fully invested in our plan. I left healthcare for a year when I turned 30. Went to work for a software company and made decent enough money. Had an office, lunch meetings, took days off when I felt like it, was home by 5pm everyday. I knew within a few months there was no way in hell I could keep that up. Went back to school, finally got straight As worked my ass off to get to where I am. Never worked harder and couldn’t be happier. Doesn’t mean life isn’t hard or stressful, but no way would I trade it for my old desk job. My kids are happier too and love to talk about how excited they are that their dad is gonna be a doctor. Family life is good and keeps getting better the further I get in this journey.

 

[drstranger]

Good to hear the glass is half full For some. What are you thinking about for residency with a bunch of kids? I assume you and your brother‘s spouses stay home with the kids. Curious how larger families do it all unless one spouse or extended family help out.

We have quite a few Latter day saints fellows with wives and children at our med school that are supported by the Church. That made sense that they could afford med school/residency without a spouse working with Church financial support. I have yet to meet a female latter-day saints med student though. Maybe I need to get out of the Midwest to find them?

Not on the topic of the thread but had to correct his misconception Latter-day saint church does not provide finical support to medical students most students live off loans like anyone else...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That made sense that they could afford med school/residency without a spouse working with Church financial support.

No one gets financial support from the Church for medical school. Literally no one.

I have yet to meet a female latter day saints med student though. Maybe I need to get out of the Midwest to find them?

There are lots of them.

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

Not on the topic of the thread but had to correct his misconception Latter-day saint church does not provide finical support to medical students most students live off loans like anyone else...

Interesting, not what one wife told me. Maybe there was a reason for saying such. Not anyone’s business anyway.

 

[Rainbow Zebra]

No one gets financial support from the Church for medical school. Literally no one.




There are lots of them.

Any on SDN?

 

[Spectreman]

Any on SDN?

Resurrecting this post (religious pun... a-thank you, a-thank you)
Chief resident at my surgery program is LDS. So is one of the PGY-4s.