Any suggestions for a good Postbacc??

[nanodoc]

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I would like to know which postbacc program you think I should apply to and what my
chances of being accepted to the program. I am graduating from a small southern university that is not considered a top 10 school. My overall GPA is low (3.0). However, my GPA was a paltry 1.7 only three years ago. Over the last 3 years I have raised my GPA from an overall of 1.7 to a 3.0 by earning a 3.8-3.5 each semester. Unfortunately, I also have racked up a huge number of "W" grades. In fact, I think I have more "W" grades than anyone has ever accumulated on their transcript. The "W" grades are mostly, albeit not entirely, from many years ago. My school does not compute the "W" grades (my school does not consider them punitive) into my overall GPA. However, I am concerned with how a postbacc program or later medical school might view them. Also, I have not taken any of the perquisite courses for medical school. I am a non-traditional student and I have been in and out of school for years. Three years ago, I decided I wanted to do something with my life and began to take my academics seriously.

As I understand, there are both structured and unstructured postbacc programs. I feel that I would do best in a more structured environment. Also, I would like to find one that has a linkage program with one or more medical schools. Obviously, I have never taken the MCAT and thus a high MCAT score could drastically improve my overall appeal to a medical school. Therefore, I would also prefer a school that includes a strong MCAT prep into its program. My preference would obviously be for a program with a strong record of getting their people into good MD programs. Therefore, a postbacc program with a strong linkage program would also be preferable. In addition, I am looking for a program that is sponsored by a university that offers a good opportunity for me to volunteer to work in a research lab. Overall, what I am looking for is a solid program that will offer me a real opportunity to demonstrate my ability, despite my past.

My Interest in medicine has grown out of my academic pursuits, and I have a strong interest in medical research. Although I am uncertain which medical specialty I would like to pursue, I know that whatever specialty I select I would like to be involved with research. Of particular interest to me, is the field of regenerative medicine. I would love to attend a medical school where research in this field is flourishing, and I could become a part of that research.

Are there any solid programs with a good linkage program that would seriously consider someone like me?
Which programs would you suggest I apply?
What would you estimate my chances of being admitted?
Can you offer me any other suggestions to improve my overall chances of admission to medical school?

 

[jetsfan1234]

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[Mr Avante]

Have you considered a Phd?

 

[nanodoc]

If I were you, I would consider highly competitive post-baccs where you take classes WITH the undergrads. You want to prove you can do that level of work, and the "postbac only" programs have the reputation for being easier. NYU and Columbia are good ones to look at. Both are known for being rigorous. If you can get good grades in those, it will help you a lot.

Excellent suggestions!! I have looked at the website for both NYU and Columbia. Although the Columbia Postbacc program's website says that the minimum GPA for acceptance is a 3.0, the website goes on to say that most of the successful applicants have at least a 3.65. My current GPA is only slightly above a 3.0. Do you have any suggestions for how I could improve my chances for admission to the Columbia postbacc program? Also, the Columbia postbacc program appears to be looking for graduates of top tier schools like Harvard and I did not graduate from a top ranked school.

NYU's program looks promissing, however, they only say that the minimum to apply is a 3.0. Is the program at NYU accepting of those with situations like mine or are they more like Columbia's program?

Are there any stats for admission to postbacc programs?

 

[nanodoc]

Have you considered a Phd?

I have considered getting a Phd in addition to the MD. However, I am unsure what regarding the sequencing of the degrees. I have thought about perhaps the medical scientist programs at some medical schools.

 

[nanodoc]

I am not looking for easy "A" postbaccs. My suspicion is that medical schools know which of the programs are challenging and give preference to graduates of those programs. However, I am also looking for a program that might be willing to look past my earlier poor academic performance and base their admission decision on my more recent grades which have been higher.

 

[Vorspiel]

Some great post-bacc premed programs which are probably less competitive than the NYU and Columbia programs are at University of Virginia and University of Colorado, Boulder. I know the UVa program has MCAT preparation incorporated into the program, but I'm not sure about Colorado. Also, I'm not sure if either of them have linkage programs, but you could benefit from the proximity to the great medical schools at both universities.

Another program which has 90% acceptance rate is at University of Vermont, and it has a linkage program. Here's a link to that program. A large list of other post-bacc pre-med programs can be found here.

Also, I'm a non-traditional student currently doing an unstructured program for the pre-req's, and I find it to have many benefits over one of the structured programs, so if you're willing to consider doing that I could tell you about it if you're interested.

 

[nanodoc]

Some great post-bacc premed programs which are probably less competitive than the NYU and Columbia programs are at University of Virginia and University of Colorado, Boulder. I know the UVa program has MCAT preparation incorporated into the program, but I'm not sure about Colorado. Also, I'm not sure if either of them have linkage programs, but you could benefit from the proximity to the great medical schools at both universities.

Another program which has 90% acceptance rate is at University of Vermont, and it has a linkage program. Here's a link to that program. A large list of other post-bacc pre-med programs can be found here.

Also, I'm a non-traditional student currently doing an unstructured program for the pre-req's, and I find it to have many benefits over one of the structured programs, so if you're willing to consider doing that I could tell you about it if you're interested.

Thank you for your help. I looked over the programs you suggested and the University of Virginia's postbacc program looks the most promising. The University of Virginia's program appears to at least consider a GPA under a 3.25 and perhaps takes a more holistic approach to admissions(hopefully). Also, they offer a good linkage opportunity to two medical schools. University of Vermont sounds good, but only promises you an interview not a actual slot if you achieve a certain level of performance. The University of Colorado at Boulder's program looks like it is relatively new and I could not find as much information on it as I could on the other two programs. I will need to look for more information on their program.

 

[darkjedi]

Columbia's postbac is considered 'mid-tier.' It is quite established, however has some mixed reviews from people who have done it.

That being said, I believe Columbia will generally admit people who have GPAs >3.0 plus decent SAT scores.

 

[jetsfan1234]

Columbia's postbac is considered 'mid-tier.' It is quite established, however has some mixed reviews from people who have done it.

That being said, I believe Columbia will generally admit people who have GPAs >3.0 plus decent SAT scores.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mid tier." It's considered to be one of the most rigorous programs.

 

[darkjedi]

I'm not sure what you mean by "mid tier." It's considered to be one of the most rigorous programs.

I don't doubt the rigorousness of Columbia's postbac, but the postbacs that are generally considered 'top-tier' and have the best placement rates/links are JHU, Goucher and Bryn Mawr.

 

[The Bunk]

I am in classes with the postbacs at Columbia and one of the things they all have in common is that they have interesting backstories. There are a lot of former ballet dancers and military folks, people with JDs, people who left behind serious careers. If you have a great life story, you have a shot.

 

[nanodoc]

I am in classes with the postbacs at Columbia and one of the things they all have in common is that they have interesting backstories. There are a lot of former ballet dancers and military folks, people with JDs, people who left behind serious careers. If you have a great life story, you have a shot.

I have noticed this too from looking at their website. On their website, they offered student profiles and you should read some their "backstories". I have a backstory and I accomplished a few things, but I doubt that they would see me as equal to a guy who was a former navy seal or air force fighter pilot.

I have looked at John Hopkins, unfortunately, they appear to be more the "top tier" program. I doubt they would give me much consideration.

 

[nanodoc]

Does anyone have any experience with the University of Virginia's postbacc program? How competitive is the program?

 

[The Bunk]

I have noticed this too from looking at their website. On their website, they offered student profiles and you should read some their "backstories". I have a backstory and I accomplished a few things, but I doubt that they would see me as equal to a guy who was a former navy seal or air force fighter pilot.

I have looked at John Hopkins, unfortunately, they appear to be more the "top tier" program. I doubt they would give me much consideration.

Don't sell yourself short! The people they highlight on the website are more exceptional (or maybe more self-promotional?) than most. I think the main consideration for the program is the cost. If you're not really going to kick ass in all your classes, it won't be worth it financially. I know someone who had to make at least a B in chem lab or he was about to get dropped from the program.

 

[Mr Avante]

You are more like a Phd than an Md.

 

[nanodoc]

Don't sell yourself short! The people they highlight on the website are more exceptional (or maybe more self-promotional?) than most. I think the main consideration for the program is the cost. If you're not really going to kick ass in all your classes, it won't be worth it financially. I know someone who had to make at least a B in chem lab or he was about to get dropped from the program.

I plan to make the highest grades I can in the program. Otherwise, why would I bother? The more rigorous and challenging the better. One of the reasons I am considering the structured programs is that some of them have a really good reputation for being "rigorous". My goal will be to make linkage. However, I will need to get nearly straight "A" grades to achieve this but I think it is worth the effort.

 

[nanodoc]

You are more like a Phd than an Md.

What do you mean by this statement? Could you clarify it for me?

 

[The Bunk]

I plan to make the highest grades I can in the program. Otherwise, why would I bother? The more rigorous and challenging the better. One of the reasons I am considering the structured programs is that some of them have a really good reputation for being "rigorous". My goal will be to make linkage. However, I will need to get nearly straight "A" grades to achieve this but I think it is worth the effort.

I would say it's pretty hard to get nearly straight A's at Columbia. We have a notoriously difficult biology professor who is unavoidable. You must take her class and you will probably be taking it simultaneously with orgo. I don't know how most linkage programs work, but here you have to get invited into the linkage program by the dean.

I think what Mr Avante meant about the PhD/MD thing is that if what you really want to do is research, then you might not need to go to med school at all. Do you want to work with patients?

 

[nanodoc]

I would say it's pretty hard to get nearly straight A's at Columbia. We have a notoriously difficult biology professor who is unavoidable. You must take her class and you will probably be taking it simultaneously with orgo. I don't know how most linkage programs work, but here you have to get invited into the linkage program by the dean.

I think what Mr Avante meant about the PhD/MD thing is that if what you really want to do is research, then you might not need to go to med school at all. Do you want to work with patients?

What do you have to do to get the dean to "invite" you into the linkage program? Can you give me some idea of what I would have to do?

I would like to do both. Ideally, I would like to affiliate with a top medical school where I could both teach and do clinical reseach, in addition to treating patients.

 

[jetsfan1234]

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[The Bunk]

What do you have to do to get the dean to "invite" you into the linkage program? Can you give me some idea of what I would have to do?

I would like to do both. Ideally, I would like to affiliate with a top medical school where I could both teach and do clinical reseach, in addition to treating patients.

I respectfully disagree with what The Bunk said -- you do not have to be formally "invited" by the Dean. However, each linkage program has certain requirements (I believe you can look them up on the post-bacc website). Unfortunately, I think a 3.0 ugrad GPA will disqualify you from most of the linkage programs. I think there is some leniency, but you would have to make a really convincing argument. It might not be worth it for you anyway, because linkage means that the med school will not see your 2nd year grades. If your ugrad GPA is low, it's in your best interest to complete the 2nd year to show what you can do before applying.

I'm not a postbac, so I'm not an expert. I was in a small seminar with Dean Sunshine and a handful of postbacs, most of whom were doing linkage, and they talked about it briefly. Looking at the website, I'm reminded now that you don't get "invited," you get "nominated" by the premed committee. So what you have to do is meet all of the eligibility requirements for Columbia and the program you're linking to, then you submit an application and cross your fingers.

"Nominations are made at the discretion of the Premedical Committee. Decisions are non-negotiable and are not open to petition. Students who are nominated for linkage by the Premedical Committee are by no means guaranteed acceptance into the linkage school."

Columbia's premed committee generally has a bunch of their own requirements for you. Like everyone must do a certain number of hours of clinical experience and there's separate but similar requirements for research and non-clinical volunteering, otherwise the committee won't support your med school application at all, linkage or not.

 

[vivapuff]

Does anyone have any experience with the University of Virginia's postbacc program? How competitive is the program?

I do! Just finished it. I am told that the program is quite competitive. It was rigorous and challenging but doable and definitely a supportive environment. What I liked about it, which you likely won't find in a school like NYU/Columbia, is the class size - max 28 people, so there is lots of individualized attention. There are a couple of linkages but few people opt to link because they want to keep their options open.

 

[karayaa]

Mills in CA is top.
I think Georgetown has a good one too

 

[pietachok]

If I were you, I would consider highly competitive post-baccs where you take classes WITH the undergrads. You want to prove you can do that level of work, and the "postbac only" programs have the reputation for being easier. NYU and Columbia are good ones to look at. Both are known for being rigorous. If you can get good grades in those, it will help you a lot.

Do not waste your money on the Columbia postbacc program. The advising is actually terrible, and the courses are curved so a set percentage of highly competent students get grades that look bad. And the bio courses are un-necessarily difficult (biochem heavy), as if they need to use them to weed people out, but nobody looks at a transcript and thinks "oh, bio is a killer class." My bio course there was curved around a B-, and I got an average grade in a class that consisted only of highly motivated postbaccs -- overcoming the B-'s is difficult when your background GPA is not optimal. It would be better to get A's at Hunter (which I just use as an example b/c it is nearby) or at least go to a school where you are curved against all students not just postbaccs (b/c they're really motivated since they're often paying with their money not their parents' & know they're struggling to overcome something). Preferably go to a school that doesn't use a true curve when determining grades, b/c it unnecessarily forces a % of the class to get F's, D's, C's, even if those C's reflect scores that would typically be in the B range.

Personally, I would do a non-structured program if I did this all over again, but maybe not if I had your background transcripts.

I can't speak to the Columbia program's current stats, but in the years I was enrolled, I know they were fudged -- I knew more people in my class who did not get into medical school than their reported data acknowledged. When they reported the #/% of postbaccs who got into med school, at the very least they left out the ones they forced out of the program or refused to write committee LOR's for, but I think the data was even more corrupt than that.

 

[jetsfan1234]

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[darkjedi]

I would agree that it's tough to get As in the Columbia program, and the bio class is notoriously difficult. But at the same time, admissions officers know this, so those As are that much more meaningful. I would argue it is more impressive than getting As at Hunter. If you have a mediocre ugrad GPA, I think it makes sense to do the more rigorous program, provided that you are confident in your abilities.

I will be honest and say that a 3.7 from Columbia will look from a 4.0 from a less 'prestigious' school. If you can be very confident that you can get A's at Columbia, then yes, by all means go for it. What is paramount however, is the level of advising that you can get. Some schools have amazing advising and also provide well received committee letters. It is this that you are paying for. Columbia, unfortunately, has some pretty bad stories coming out of it, so the worthwhileness of it is questionable.

 

[AbitConfusedATM]

I'm just curios, for people doing this formal programs how do you plan on paying for it? Wouldn't doing the Columbia post-bacc and living there cost upwards of $50k/year? I'm sure it depends on the person and it's a mix of loans, family support, and saved money, but what's the most common way?

 

[DiolASulfone]

I did the Hunter program and I highly recommend it. Went to a very top undergrad school (like nearly all the postbaccs here) and have gotten an equally strong education here. The classes are by no means easy As. Many are indeed curved (like intro bio and intro chem), so as a motivated postbacc you are unlikely to get Cs, but you absolutely have to work for the A over the B. Some upper level courses like Orgo are not curved, which is not necessarily a good thing because the exams are very challenging. The price is excellent (I've never paid more than $2500 a semester). Our alumni do well - I know people at Cornell, NYU, Mayo, Downstate, etc). People are also generally nice and support each other. There are some great teachers and some mediocre ones, but overall my experience has been great and I'm in good shape to be applying to med school

 

[jetsfan1234]

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