any thoughts on getting a luxury car while an intern

[3dtp]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Q: How can you tell the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?

A: The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

How true, how true!

 

[3dtp]

I drive an 02 Corolla which i bought used. I just put regular gas in it, change the oil and it runs like a dream. Plus you can't beat the gas mileage. I love this car. 😍

Why half-ass it? Its all or none. Why even get an entry-level luxury car? With the payments, insurance and premium gas, I just don't think its worth the fancy hood ornament on a resident's salary-- unless you have an extra source of cash (spouse, parents).

When I make partner I'm planning on having a premature midlife crisis. I've got my eyes set on an Aston Martin Vantage or SL55 for weekends 😀 , until then (and even then) I'll keep driving my 'beater' to work.

But to each, his/her own. 👍

'67 Cessna C182 3300 hours new engine, burns regular unleaded goes 155 mph holds 4 people skis and gear and can get in and out of a 900 foot, airstrip. Gets about 14 mpg at 7500 feet above sea level. Now, if I could only convince the hospital to turn that heli-pad into a runway.....

 

[Diceman M.D.]

BMW? Whatev, man. If you want a TRUE high class driving machine that can outrun a Porsche and pick up more ladies than a Lamborghini...one word:

DeLorean

That is all 😉

 

[Hurricane]

one word:

DeLorean

Only if it can get up to 88 mph. That's when the fun stuff happens 😉

 

[Gut Shot]

anyone think it would be a bad idea to get i nice entry level luxury car like an infiniti g35 or lexus IS, or even a bmw 330 while an intern?

Will the other interns/residents/attendings be a little harder on u?

just wondering if i should wait

Tell you what. Figure out the monthly expense of keeping such a car (note payment, insurance, etc.). If, after 4-5 months of residency, you find that much money lying unused your bank account each month, then by all means purchase an entry level luxury car.

 

[Poety]

Only if it can get up to 88 mph. That's when the fun stuff happens 😉

My dad's friend has one of those pieces of crap - he goes ITS RUSTED WTF?

 

[CameronFrye]

Oh please. So we should just hunker down and not enjoy ourselves because the end is nigh?

Everyone has some thing they enjoy. I know other girls who spend the same amount as my car payment on designer handbags and shoes and crap. I prefer to shop at Old Navy and spend my $$ on my speedy little beemer instead, and it makes me happy, and has been factored in to the rest of our financial planning.

I don't think curious would advocate blowing money on handbags either. The financially sound approach would be to wait until you're an attending and pay cash for a car that is a couple years old. It never makes sense financially to finance a consumption purchase that depreciates in value. That being said, if you REALLY can't live without a luxury car and your mental health will suffer, then go for it. Just realize that you aren't doing the "smart" thing and you are sacrificing something else. If you start investing for retirement at age 35 instead of 25, you could be throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars (at 8% returns, your money will double every 10 years, so that 10 years is a really big deal). That could mean you'll have to work several more years before retiring. If that doesn't bother you, then fine (of course, you may feel differently once you actually get to 60).

 

[Poety]

I don't think curious would advocate blowing money on handbags either. The financially sound approach would be to wait until you're an attending and pay cash for a car that is a couple years old. It never makes sense financially to finance a consumption purchase that depreciates in value. That being said, if you REALLY can't live without a luxury car and your mental health will suffer, then go for it. Just realize that you aren't doing the "smart" thing and you are sacrificing something else. If you start investing for retirement at age 35 instead of 25, you could be throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars (at 8% returns, your money will double every 10 years, so that 10 years is a really big deal). That could mean you'll have to work several more years before retiring. If that doesn't bother you, then fine (of course, you may feel differently once you actually get to 60).

Wow, and I won't even be an ATTENDING until I'm 38 😉 Unfortunately or fortunately, there IS something to be said for living life and not spending all your time worrying excessively about what you spend and how much you'll accumulate in the future. Wish I could learn that lesson - I'd be much happier indeed.

 

[BKN]

Wow, and I won't even be an ATTENDING until I'm 38 😉 Unfortunately or fortunately, there IS something to be said for living life and not spending all your time worrying excessively about what you spend and how much you'll accumulate in the future. Wish I could learn that lesson - I'd be much happier indeed.

That kid just keeps gettin cuter. 😍

 

[OUsooner]

See, this is the "Car and Driver" approach to car ownership. Who cares what the car is like so long as it's fast and drives nice. I much prefer the Top Gear approach. Drives nice, looks nice, built like junk, here's a better choice.

C/D's brand-new 3-series suffered a catastrophic ABS failure (not bad for the "ultimate" driving machine) at 70 mph and almost sent them flying off the highway, and it repeatedly refused to start. It won the comparison anyway. When Top Gear tested the new M5, they said warning lights started to flash as soon as they began pushing the car a bit. Their conclusion was: fast, fun, but fragile. I forget what they recommended instead but it cost about half the money.

Better options than a 3-series? Easy. Avalon Touring will blow the doors off all but the M cars. So will the Lexus IS350 (and IS300 will keep the pace with more options at $5000-$10000 less money; in fact a V-6 Accord with a stick will keep up with a 330i as well). All of these will be absolutely reliable for the next 20 years and will likely hold their value better.

Solide, after 5 years of leasing at $300/mo you will have spent $18,000. After 5 years of financing I will have spent $18000 and will own an $8000 car, so I effectively only pay $10000 or 55% of what you pay. Sure, your car will be fancier. Which means worse gas milage (adds up a $3/gal), higher registration/taxes, expensive tires, etc., so the gap grows even bigger.

Have 82K on my 3 and have had minimal probs. Have several family members and friends with M3/M5. They also have encountered few problems. The main problem when driving an M5 is the constant barrage of women tracking you. If you are with a companion give said person a stick to keep these women at bay. Have fun in your Avalon. Just my 2 cents.

PS Not many cars hold their value better than the 3 series beemers.

by the way the above is a joke, before somebody flames me for using a car to pick up women. i could do just as well with a tricycle and a bottle of rum. 😀

 

[DOtobe]

That kid just keeps gettin cuter. 😍

I was just going to say that. Poety, you have the most adorable avatars. 🙂

 

[Poety]

That kid just keeps gettin cuter. 😍

THANK YOU! Right now, OPD is attempting to arrange a marriage between her and his son, he has no idea the cost of marrying my daughter1!!!

And THANKS DO!

 

[Mumpu]

3dtp, general aviation scares me. I always imagine that the bozo driving 10 under the speed limit in the left lane with a cell phone in one hand and a sandwich in the other is driving to the airport to climb into his Cessna and do the same in 3 dimensions at 150 mph. Perhaps the Collings Foundation will sell me their Phantom. Hmmm.

 

[zer0el]

Mumpu: did you say a Toyota Avalon could "blow the doors off" of all non-M BMWs? Wow. I'm wondering if you test drove these cars in reverse or something. Give me a 330 Ci with a stick anyday over an Avalon.

That being said, I've driven many BMWs, and for the money, I don't think they're worth it. True, they handle exceptionally well and BMW is one of the few companies that still offer most models with RWD and a stick. But their MSRPs are a joke since every BMW on the lot comes with leather and other options. Standard HP is usually weak and reliability is a problem. If you want value + driving excitement + luxury + reliability, you can't be Infiniti and Acura.

 

[Poety]

I'm upside down in my trailblazer, how can I get outta this? I owe more than its worth. Anyone have ideas? I've thought about having it stolen, but then I'd end up in hell

 

[Bobblehead]

I'm upside down in my trailblazer, how can I get outta this? I owe more than its worth. Anyone have ideas? I've thought about having it stolen, but then I'd end up in hell

Learn from your lesson. Spend less. Pay it off as quickly as possible. Then decide whether the gas, maintenance and insurance are worth keeping the car for an extended time (10 years) or whether you're better off getting something cheap, paid for, with low ownership costs.

No easy way to get out of an upside down car loan. You will have to pay off the difference one way or another.

 

[3dtp]

3dtp, general aviation scares me. I always imagine that the bozo driving 10 under the speed limit in the left lane with a cell phone in one hand and a sandwich in the other is driving to the airport to climb into his Cessna and do the same in 3 dimensions at 150 mph. Perhaps the Collings Foundation will sell me their Phantom. Hmmm.

Well, if you look at the record in general aviation, it is still the safest way to get places. Considering this week, they closed the highway four times in 1 week for fatal crashes where I live to investigate and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't see an accident. And then there are the porcupines driving their beamers creating havoc as they weave. And they won't let me put CCM (car to car missiles) in my rustbucket.

Most people who get themselves into trouble in airplanes push the limits until the limit snaps back and bites them. Airplanes, once aloft and underway are actually easier than cars and cell phone don't work in the sky.

Real statistics 1413 accidents in GA in 2004 with over 25,000,000 hours flown, 513 fatalities in about 200 accidents. The fatal accidents invariably involve one of two areas, low altitude maneuvering (buzz jobs) or flying into bad weather that the pilot was not trained or equipped for. These are pretty easy to avoid.

And the bozos sometimes fly airliners too. I know some interesting stories about trans-oceanic rated airline captains being true boneheads.

And, there's nothing like the sheer joy of taking off on a crystal clear day, climbing to altitude and leaving your problems on the ground for a few hours. Much more fun (and probably still cheaper) than spending 45 minutes on Poety's couch! (her office couch, that is!)

Check it out! http://www.aopa.org/learntofly/ or head off the the local airport pilot center and ask for a discovery flight. They cost around $40 or so to put you in the pilot's seat.

 

[Poety]

And, there's nothing like the sheer joy of taking off on a crystal clear day, climbing to altitude and leaving your problems on the ground for a few hours. Much more fun (and probably still cheaper) than spending 45 minutes on Poety's couch! (her office couch, that is!)

.

There is NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECTLY GOOD AIRPLANE - You've got a skydiver here, so I'm all about EXITING - nevermind all that flying around

and Bobblehead: If you only knew HOW i GOT upside down in this thing! Bought a blazer the week before, HATED IT, brought it back, and THATS when I got UPSIDE DOWN OUCH!

Now get on the couch, I need to pay for this vehicle (which btw, I do love, I just hate being upside down in it 😉 )

 

[Lizard1]

this is pretty funny listening to all the righteous peeps here - maybe they mean good but some(not all) sure come across sour 🙂

as long as you have a financial plan and your "luxury" car can fit into it, then by all means... i do agree that it should NEVER be flaunted. you are driving it for your self and not to be seen right????

i have something nice and it makes the drives early in the morning or after a hard days work very fun - permagrin. wouldn't have it any other way 😀

so let's hear what some nice cars are out there...thank god for the anonymity of the internet

 

[3dtp]

There is NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECTLY GOOD AIRPLANE - You've got a skydiver here, so I'm all about EXITING - nevermind all that flying around

and Bobblehead: If you only knew HOW i GOT upside down in this thing! Bought a blazer the week before, HATED IT, brought it back, and THATS when I got UPSIDE DOWN OUCH!

Now get on the couch, I need to pay for this vehicle (which btw, I do love, I just hate being upside down in it 😉 )

Used to drive a jump plane. A C180 and a Beaver. I quit when they told my I should experience the joys of jumping. I still spend an occasional weekend in the 180, but they replaced the Beaver with a Twin Otter and I can't afford to get proficient in that. How many jumps?

Keep 'em till the wheels fall off...cars that is.

 

[Mumpu]

Avalon has 280 hp vs 330i's 255 at the same curb weight and $6000+ less money. Granted it's a FWD car and may well be torque steer city. Regardless, I wouldn't buy either. 99% of my commuting happens on small streets at 35 mph so a lively light four-banger with a good stick does the job much much better.

3dtp, I restore Century aircraft at the local aviation museum but my interest in private flying is zilch. I worked a local B-17 event last year and watching all the Cessnas buzz around the airport just didn't tug at any heartstrings. History, techonology and aerodynamics interest me far more than tooling around the sky with my pants very slightly on fire. Btw, even as a non-fan of GA I still enjoyed "One Six Right" (a documentary about Van Nuys) so check it out!

 

[f_w]

There is a clear reason why physicians despite their above average income have a far above average rate of bankrupcy.

 

[Poety]

Used to drive a jump plane. A C180 and a Beaver. I quit when they told my I should experience the joys of jumping. I still spend an occasional weekend in the 180, but they replaced the Beaver with a Twin Otter and I can't afford to get proficient in that. How many jumps?

Keep 'em till the wheels fall off...cars that is.

TWIN OTTER WOOOOOOO HOOOOOO Nothing like getting to altitude in 10 minutes (and adding on a couple 1000 feet for the log book)

Now yer cooking with fire! I like the bus too, don't know what that plane is called, but exiting out of the back is intense!

have almost 400 jumps, have quit for now (baby avatar makes jumps scary now) but will start again eventually. and really... you should.... try it ONCE.

 

[SoCuteMD]

As an alternative - I know everyone wants shiny new things for graduation, but I bought an '01 Volvo S40 with 40K miles in 2004. Paid 13,500 off the lot but only financed a small portion of that. It was pre-owned certified, so it's warranteed until I graduate (bought additional years!) and it probably won't be worth a whole lot but I'm hoping it will get me through residency with a little bit of style.

 

[SiouxMD]

'67 Cessna C182 3300 hours new engine, burns regular unleaded goes 155 mph holds 4 people skis and gear and can get in and out of a 900 foot, airstrip. Gets about 14 mpg at 7500 feet above sea level. Now, if I could only convince the hospital to turn that heli-pad into a runway.....

Sweet ride. I hope to own a Cherokee 6 someday. It sucks a little more gas but it will haul almost anything.

 

[f_w]

I like the bus too, don't know what that plane is called,

Probably a Shorts Skyvan or a CASA 212.

Nothing like getting to altitude in 10 minutes (and adding on a couple 1000 feet for the log book)

Jumped a 727 once (in Quincy), scary to exit above terminal velocity but fun.




---
If I ever feel like blowing unreasonable amounts of money on a ride, I might just go with this:

http://www.diamondair.com/aircraft/da42_private/images/gallery/view/5.jpg

(yes, its a Diesel, but one that gets you 1050miles at 197mph on one tank)

 

[spalatin]

Honda Civic 3 years old, no problems, nicer cross country car than the Toyota.

 

[sophiejane]

I drive an 02 Corolla which i bought used. I just put regular gas in it, change the oil and it runs like a dream. Plus you can't beat the gas mileage. I love this car. 😍

Love my '03 Corrolla. The only problem is sometimes I try to get in the wrong car in parking lots because there are so many of them!

I'm gonna run that little car into the ground, then probably buy another one!

 

[Poety]

Probably a Shorts Skyvan or a CASA 212.



Jumped a 727 once (in Quincy), scary to exit above terminal velocity but fun.

it was the skyvan, thats it - I called it a bus Thing is a beast to get up there though, like 25 minutes to altitude with a full load, ole slug 😴

Why were you in quincy? How many jumps do you have? You must be experienced to be jumping at quincy! Had friends go there every year, now we're all old, with kids and taking our jumping hiatus.

Lost a dear friend of mine year before med school, did 3 more jumps and called it a day for a while. 🙁

ETA: how long does the 727 take to get to altitude? We're gunna get kicked outta this thread for skydiving talk - gunna have to start a new thread!

 

[Mumpu]

You don't need a parachute to skydive. You need a parachute to skydive more than once. 😛

 

[f_w]

Thing is a beast to get up there though, like 25 minutes to altitude with a full load, ole slug

Depends on the type of engine they put on it, there are a couple of conversions that get you to 13k in 12min.

Why were you in quincy?

Well, good question. I was much younger and reckless then.

How many jumps do you have? You must be experienced to be jumping at quincy!

Around 250 at the time, still it was a bit beyond my level of expertise. Just too many people under canopies at any given time. One of the fatalities impacted maybe 20ft from me, not a pleasant experience (they got him to the trauma center in one piece just to have an intern finish him off there).

now we're all old, with kids and taking our jumping hiatus.

Same here. My hiatus is probably going to be permanent. I might get back into flying the plane at some point (probably 2-3 years after I make partner and once that nice house is paid off).

ETA: how long does the 727 take to get to altitude?

Far less time than it takes to taxi to the end of the runway.

 

[3dtp]

Probably a Shorts Skyvan or a CASA 212.

If I ever feel like blowing unreasonable amounts of money on a ride, I might just go with this:

http://www.diamondair.com/aircraft/da42_private/images/gallery/view/5.jpg

(yes, its a Diesel, but one that gets you 1050miles at 197mph on one tank)

Got a few hours in CASA 212 freighters

One of my former students went north and got her private in a Katana. She took me for a ride in it. Fun airplane, don't know about the DA4, but the Katana was fun.

Nothing wrong with diesels properly done. I wanted to put one in my Skylane, the Zoche, but he disappeared and Aerospatiale wanted 80k for their STC, only 3 times what I paid for the whole airplane! And instead of the touted turbonormalized 160 kts at the flight levels, it has a service ceiling of 12,000 feet, and there are mountains I fly in higher than that. Passes too.



Give up the skydiving...go gliding. Grob in the mountains and you can go all day (or until you have to pee) on the ridge lift.

My dream:

Seawind 300c 160 mph 20,000 ft ceiling 1100 pounds useful 1100 n.m range, but you have to subtract the 30 pounds for fishing gear.

http://www.seawind.biz/images/sunset.jpg

 

[Poety]

Depends on the type of engine they put on it, there are a couple of conversions that get you to 13k in 12min.

Well, good question. I was much younger and reckless then.

Around 250 at the time, still it was a bit beyond my level of expertise. Just too many people under canopies at any given time. One of the fatalities impacted maybe 20ft from me, not a pleasant experience (they got him to the trauma center in one piece just to have an intern finish him off there).

Same here. My hiatus is probably going to be permanent. I might get back into flying the plane at some point (probably 2-3 years after I make partner and once that nice house is paid off).

Far less time than it takes to taxi to the end of the runway.

Whenever I was on the bus, I thought that damn thing was gunna crash with how slow it was - I don't like barely moving in mid air 😱 250 is a green grasshoppa for Quincy - just like you said, all those canopies would FREAK ME OUT And I did CRW, and I still woulda been scared! (My form of CRW was my boyfriend grabbing my chute and steering it down, or bouncing on the top of it, which also, scares the hell outta any control freak!)

Same happened to my friend, died on the 4th of July in the TICU, but no intern even got to him... 🙁

I'm all set with flying, but one day I'll get back to skydiving. I have about 400 jumps, so I'm still pretty green too 😀

MUMPU 😉

 

[jetproppilot]

anyone think it would be a bad idea to get i nice entry level luxury car like an infiniti g35 or lexus IS, or even a bmw 330 while an intern?

Will the other interns/residents/attendings be a little harder on u?

just wondering if i should wait

If you can swing it, comfortably. do it.

I couldnt.

But I went to a med school where alotta students came from money and hence lived in condos-on-the-water and drove beemers as residents.

Life is too short.

Play hard.

 

[jetproppilot]

Seawind 300c 160 mph 20,000 ft ceiling 1100 pounds useful 1100 n.m range, but you have to subtract the 30 pounds for fishing gear.

http://www.seawind.biz/images/sunset.jpg

Time to look at turboprops, dude.

 

[f_w]

Got a few hours in CASA 212 freighters

Myself, only as 'freight'.

I wanted to put one in my Skylane, the Zoche, but he disappeared and Aerospatiale wanted 80k for their STC, only 3 times what I paid for the whole airplane!

LoL

Give up the skydiving...go gliding.

Been there, done that. For about 10 years.

Grob in the mountains and you can go all day (or until you have to pee) on the ridge lift.

We had a Grob as 'step-up' trainer. I allways found it to be a bit lethargic, my kind of fun was a DG-300 or DG-600.

Seawind 300c 160 mph 20,000 ft ceiling 1100 pounds useful 1100 n.m range, but you have to subtract the 30 pounds for fishing gear.

Sweeeet !
I thought about a Husky with amphibian floats for around here, but after you put the floats on the thing barely moves.

 

[f_w]

Whenever I was on the bus, I thought that damn thing was gunna crash with how slow it was - I don't like barely moving in mid air

It is a STOL aircraft, a class not exactly known for spirited performance except for the takeoff of course.

I'm all set with flying, but one day I'll get back to skydiving. I have about 400 jumps, so I'm still pretty green too

I'll go the other way around. For skydiving I have a veto from my SO, but given that I could make use of a plane for my practice, I might get back into that one day.

 

[DoctaJay]

I have to vouch for BMWs too. My first car was a 1984 633CSI and it cost $1,500...it ran like a champ and I was still destroying Mustangs. Now I have a 1992 325i for $5,900, it had 57K miles when I first got it. As long as you do maintenance before stuff breaks, BMWs will continue to love you back. I do admitt that I hate the new body styling on all but the 7 series, but you can beat the driving experience. You don't always have to buy a new beemer. I say, let someone else take the hit of buying it new, and get a good used one.

 

[f_w]

BMW, Mercedes and Volvo had a pretty rapid deterioration in quality over the last 10 years or so. I used to drive a Benz for a living, some of them had 500k miles on the first engine (w/o rebuild). Nowadays, people even break down in a Benz, something unheard of 10-20 years ago.

 

[Pingu]

Will the other interns/residents/attendings be a little harder on u?

You will get crap from other people, just be prepared for it. I started residency in a saab 9-3 convertible (nice but not THAT nice) and got crap. When I got a new car a few weeks ago, i told only a few friends and have kept it on the downlow. People have a tendency to be jealous and that jealousy will translate into ****-talking about you.

 

[sblau001]

I've got to agree with Pingu on this. In my 4th year of medical school I bought a brand-spanking new Mazda RX-8 after going through an early mid-life crisis. I can say that at times it was the only thing I had to look forward to after a long day during my internship. I got many comments from attendings, and one in particular who saw me driving it out of the parking lot one day. The guy is a prick anyway, so I didn't let it bother me.

Bottom line- buy whatever makes you happy and that you can afford. Expect to get some comments, but screw them all!

 

[fomites]

anyone think it would be a bad idea to get i nice entry level luxury car like an infiniti g35 or lexus IS, or even a bmw 330 while an intern?

Will the other interns/residents/attendings be a little harder on u?

just wondering if i should wait

you live once, why do you care THAT much what other people think? Do you buy your clothes based on what you THINK other people might think? Are you that browbeaten and oppressed that you have to kowtow to the almighty judgements of other residents regarding what automobile you drive!!!!!

Shhesh, what is up with you people. This is SOOOO SAD.

 

[myrandom2003]

you live once, why do you care THAT much what other people think? Do you buy your clothes based on what you THINK other people might think? Are you that browbeaten and oppressed that you have to kowtow to the almighty judgements of other residents regarding what automobile you drive!!!!!

Shhesh, what is up with you people. This is SOOOO SAD.

nothing like that... i only posted this because i am considering buying a new car...and I have heard some stories about attendings being a little rougher on interns/residents who they deem as being "flashy" or whatever, and especially after forgetting everything including how to write a prescription, i certainly dont need someone scrutinizing me even more... so i just wanted to see if that was pretty common or not...

 

[Lizard1]

just buy it and don't say a word to anybody. only a handful of people know what i drive and that's a no brainer for me( i won't even divulge on the internet 😀 )

and attendings could really care less what their interns/residents are driving unless you make a big deal of it. in reality, you are as small to them as they make you feel sometimes 🙁

 

[Blake]

Do it if you want to. Personally, I'd do anything to get my hands on BMW Z4 coupe. Too bad I'm dirt poor 🙁

 

[fomites]

nothing like that... i only posted this because i am considering buying a new car...and I have heard some stories about attendings being a little rougher on interns/residents who they deem as being "flashy" or whatever, and especially after forgetting everything including how to write a prescription, i certainly dont need someone scrutinizing me even more... so i just wanted to see if that was pretty common or not...

unkay, I changed my mind. You should get a skateboard or scooter, a used one, so it won't be too flashy or such. No one will be mean to you then. Or better yet, take the bus or subway, or whatever urine infested public transportation your city has.

 

[spalatin]

unkay, I changed my mind. You should get a skateboard or scooter, a used one, so it won't be too flashy or such. No one will be mean to you then. Or better yet, take the bus or subway, or whatever urine infested public transportation your city has.

If my city had a urine infested subway that I could sit on and ride instead of watching *****s in Escalades and Hummers barge their way into construction zones slowing everybody down and smashing themselves and some poor defenseless Ford to bits jamming up the highway for hours, I'd be the first to buy a ticket. If it ran on nuclear generated electricity without green house gas emissions, so much the better. It so happens that it doesn't, so we wait for hours in traffic, unproductively driving by the messes left in the wake of the Hummers. Vive la France!

 

[Mumpu]

Go nukes! Can you imagine the sweet delicious shift of global balance of power and money flow from the Middle East to Africa, US, and Russia as well all chill with our non-melty pebble bed and Advanced CANDU reactors.