Any thoughts on these 4 programs?

[JabsterL]

Rosalind Franklin, SUNY Downstate, University of Florida, and Creighton/University of Nebraska?

Love Chicago and little less so Brooklyn/NYC, Rosalind is mostly V.A.-centric and hour north of Chicago Loop by car/train, SUNY Downstate half hour from nice parts of Brooklyn to live and people aren't as nice, UF is good private practice training and nicer weather but college town so not very diverse but people really nice, Creighton/Nebraska also not diverse and is in boring Omaha but very nice folks in the heartland.

City-wise is the order I listed above (in large part because I'm single and would like to date Indian girls, as I'm Indian American guy), but training-wise I feel like the order is SUNY Downstate, UF = Creighton, Rosalind, in part because Rosalind doesn't have fellowships and I'm pretty certain I'll pursue CAP fellowship and practice; however, people leave Rosalind to do CAP fellowships at great programs like Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, so maybe the extra time after getting off at 230-4 (instead of 8-10 pm) can be used toward research that these elite places covet?

I know we can't read too much into PD/Chairman feedback/prematch offers/post-interview correspondence, but I have good reason to believe I'd match at whichever I rank highest from these 4. How would you distinguish these location vs. program strength factors to rank these 4?

Thank you so much for your help!

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[JabsterL]

Does anyone have thoughts on these 4 programs pretty please...?

Rosalind Franklin, SUNY Downstate, University of Florida, and Creighton/University of Nebraska?

Love Chicago and little less so Brooklyn/NYC, Rosalind is mostly V.A.-centric and hour north of Chicago Loop by car/train, SUNY Downstate half hour from nice parts of Brooklyn to live and people aren't as nice, UF is good private practice training and nicer weather but college town so not very diverse but people really nice, Creighton/Nebraska also not diverse and is in boring Omaha but very nice folks in the heartland.

City-wise is the order I listed above (in large part because I'm single and would like to date Indian girls, as I'm Indian American guy), but training-wise I feel like the order is SUNY Downstate, UF = Creighton, Rosalind, in part because Rosalind doesn't have fellowships and I'm pretty certain I'll pursue CAP fellowship and practice; however, people leave Rosalind to do CAP fellowships at great programs like Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, so maybe the extra time after getting off at 230-4 (instead of 8-10 pm) can be used toward research that these elite places covet?

I know we can't read too much into PD/Chairman feedback/prematch offers/post-interview correspondence, but I have good reason to believe I'd match at whichever I rank highest from these 4. How would you distinguish these location vs. program strength factors to rank these 4?

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[splik]

That sounds reasonable to me - I would put SUNY downstate above the rest (primarily on location but they have a bit of research and its an okay program). Rosalind Franklin is so full of IMGs they have a course introducing the residents to american culture! IIRC you are an american who went offshore for medschool so it might not be quite your scene.

Fellowships in psychiatry are so ridiculously uncompetitive (even for child which no one wants to do) that it doesn't matter as much as you might think where you go for residency in terms of name brand. I know someone who went to one of the worst programs in the country (this program doesn't even use the match and is on probation) and is a fellow at one of the top programs in the country for that fellowship.

 

[peppy]

Rosalind Franklin is so full of IMGs they have a course introducing the residents to american culture! IIRC you are an american who went offshore for medschool so it might not be quite your scene.

Yeah, going by what I heard from an AMG who interviewed there, it sounded like it might be hard to fit in if you're an AMG.

I don't know anything about Creighton's program or what the Indian-American community is like there, but I wouldn't discount Omaha as necessarily being an awful place to live. Living in an area with a low cost of living like Omaha can make life a lot less stressful and more fun as a resident, vs. barely scraping by in an expensive city. Just something to consider. Good luck with deciding though.

 

[whopper]

I know of a program where the vast majority are IMGs from a specific culture. The residents in that program are treated like residents from the mother country....completely disregarding ACGME guidelines. If you're one of the few people not from that country--you're also expected to follow the norm, that is working over 80 hrs a week, drug rep lunches only catering to the culture, and if you try to do anything to fix it,...no one supports you.

 

[NoNoNoNo]

Gainesville can be a fun place to live. Good live music, outdoorsy things.

 

[psychphan]

I've heard rumors that SUNY Downstate is very much a service over education program. Not sure of the validity of that, but thought I'd share as that's pretty much all I know about any of those programs.

 

[NamastePlie]

I interviewed at Rosalind Franklin (not this year) and I completely agree with all that has been said above. I felt like a fish out of water there being a blonde American female AMG. The facilities were very nice, as were the residents, but you spend almost all of your time at the VA which will decrease your patient exposure. And several people including one of the attendings who interviewed me said that you have a lot of free/"self study" time there so you can take from that what you wish.

Basically, I just didn't fell like a would get even a fraction of the exposure that one should have to be feel "ready to go" after residency. And I think I would have been the only American in an American program..... However, please listen to any advice from someone that is actually there because they know best what is going on. And there is definitely something to be said for not being overworked ;-) Bottom line is I ranked them dead last as a "just in case because you never know" backup.

 

[JabsterL]

Thank you all who replied with your take on these programs!

What's the general consensus then when comparing program strength vs. location (to enjoy life outside work) when deciding rank order? I've been told by some go with the program because 'going out gets old,' and told by others go where you're happy (assuming residents and faculty are equally cool at both places, this is mainly decided by location they say)...what say you?

 

[splik]

you want a balance between the two- so obviously great program great location comes first, bad program bad location last, and everything in between - for mediocre programs or those programs you dont really know how good they are, i would choose location.

 

[splik]

location isn't just about having fun outside of work, it is also about whether you might want live there after (if say establishing private practices), are there other programs where you could do research, does the area have a psychoanalytic institute if you are interested, how much does it cost to live there, would you feel safe/comfortable there etc.

 

[JabsterL]

nice splik, just checked my current certified list and it fits your criteria for the most part..location over program when in doubt/it could go either way in the middle of the list. I guess bein single makes this even more important cuz if I was married (esp with kids) i mighta chose the other programs higher that have lower cost of living, cheaper and better public schools, less crime, etc.

my mentor attending also told me that in psych, university training in urban environment beats rural/college town university training for the most part because you see more diversity of training in terms of psychopathology, health systems (including county in addition to VA, university, psychotherapy training) and of course socioeconomically and multiculturally patient populations and in turn you get more out of residency/are better prepared for anything, so that also influenced me to choose city programs over small town programs for the most part (part. since I don't see myself practicing in small town USA in the future).

U agree with this philosophy for the most part?

 

[EddieMD]

Thought I'd put a plug in for Creighton/University of Nebraska. I'm an AMG who interviewed there and loved it. I'm familiar with the area, as well as some surrounding larger cities (chicago, KC, St. louis). As far as these and other cities go, Omaha has just about everything you could want. Great schools, great people and THE most affordable city in America (Forbes listed Omaha as the most affordable of the top 50 largest cities in America). The third richest man in the world lives a mile from the UNMC hospital. A resident told us they calculated that a single person would have to make the equivalent of $120,000 a year in a city like Chicago/NY/LA to have the same quality of life that a Creighton psych resident has

Omaha also has a surprisingly diverse culture with both an underground & outdoor jazz scene, a huge indie rock hub, fantastic restaurants, and all the major yuppie chains we all love like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, etc. I get the feeling you'll never be bored on a Saturday off-call night. From what I know Omaha lives fairly segregated from the rest of Nebraska. There is nothing rural about Omaha (unless you drive an hour in any direction 🙂

Program is wonderful from what I know as well. 9 residents, great benefits, friendly cohesive bunch pretty well evenly divided amongst AMG, IMG, and DO. The faculty will bend over backwards to help the residents succeed in any area of interest, I've seen this first hand. Residents rotate at 4 major hospitals in the area and get a large breath of exposure due to this diverse training (inner city to suburbs). And that's also the downside... I think you'll need a car! But, all the training sites are no more than a 15 min drive apart. The program is well respected regionally/nationally, and residents have no problem finding good jobs.

Well there you have it. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but as far as solid psych residencies go, you just can't get any better than Omaha.