Any tips for making time to do research third year?

[celkon]

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Feel like im just working 8am-5pm every day and no time to get away to go meet up with docs to do research. Anyone have any tips or ideas on how I can make some time in the day for research third year?

 

[OPPforlife]

Cant speak regarding third year, however, I am spending some substantial time doing basic science research as a fourth year. I would imagine trying to fit research this early in third year would be extremely difficult considering it takes some time to figure how to survive and succeed as a third year medical student (which in itself is extremely important). My suggestion to you would be to delay pursuing research until next semester. I think there are two obvious advantages to this 1) by this time you will have a better idea as to exactly what specialty you want to pursue and 2) you will be a much more efficient medical student and hence will have a little bit more time to do research.
I will go ahead and say though, it is extremely difficult to manage research and clinic, but IT CAN BE DONE. It requires a lot of great time management and a lot of hard work. I have yet to go through the residency application process, but it seems like more and more programs are looking for clinician scientists. If you think research is your strength you should def pursue it in med school also.

 

[celkon]

Cant speak regarding third year, however, I am spending some substantial time doing basic science research as a fourth year. I would imagine trying to fit research this early in third year would be extremely difficult considering it takes some time to figure how to survive and succeed as a third year medical student (which in itself is extremely important). My suggestion to you would be to delay pursuing research until next semester. I think there are two obvious advantages to this 1) by this time you will have a better idea as to exactly what specialty you want to pursue and 2) you will be a much more efficient medical student and hence will have a little bit more time to do research.
I will go ahead and say though, it is extremely difficult to manage research and clinic, but IT CAN BE DONE. It requires a lot of great time management and a lot of hard work. I have yet to go through the residency application process, but it seems like more and more programs are looking for clinician scientists. If you think research is your strength you should def pursue it in med school also.

Good advice! thanks

 

[username456789]

Feel like im just working 8am-5pm every day and no time to get away to go meet up with docs to do research. Anyone have any tips or ideas on how I can make some time in the day for research third year?

Wait a few months before you really try to make a go at it, assuming you're just starting 3rd year. Spend this time getting to know how clerkships work, the daily ins and outs, and what peoples' expectations of you are. Learn the basic skills a third year should have (performing a comprehensive physical exam, writing an H&P, writing a good SOAP note, presenting patients efficiently on rounds, etc). If you're fortunate enough to have "lighter" rotations during the middle/end of third year, this is great as it will allow you to finally spend some time trying to work some research in.

One thing you will learn as third year goes on is how much you can "get away with" as far as ducking out. For instance, at my school there were several ways to get afternoons off (sometimes even entire days off). A few examples were:

1. Pediatrics - during our 3 weeks of outpatient peds, we spent mornings in a continuity clinic (that required our attendance), but afternoons were subspecialty clinics where the preceptors never actually realized ahead of time that a med student was going to be showing up, and there was no accountability and no reporting back to the clerkship director. Hence, you could just not show up for most of the afternoons during those 3 weeks, without any real repercussions.

2. Neurology - we spent 4 weeks on inpatient services, and every week we had one afternoon assigned to us individually where we were supposed to go "shadow" in a neuro subspecialty clinic (sleep medicine, movement disorders, etc). Again, the docs generally didn't realize we were showing up, and were often a little annoyed to have students slow them down, so I usually just spent that afternoon heading over to the derm clinic to work with the derm people who would eventually be writing my LORs.

3. Surgery - 3 of our 12 weeks were spent on "elective" services (again, mostly subspecialties . . . notice a pattern here?) like ortho, ENT, anesthesiology, etc. In anesthesiology you basically went in for a couple hours in the morning and they dismissed you home. So, afternoons off all week. Similar deal with most of the other ones. None of those weeks counted towards our evals/grades, so once people realized that it was easy to get time off to do whatever (research, study for the shelf, etc).

4. Family Medicine - I lucked out in that my preceptor was in the community and only worked 3 1/2 days per week. So I had 1 1/2 days off each week, plus weekends. One of my classmates who worked with that same doc later in the year used to make up "conferences" that he had to attend to get out of even more clinic time.

You get the idea. Basically, you have to figure out as third year goes along just how far you're willing to push the envelope.

 

[Sheldor]

I think the above advice is all great! I'll add that one way to make tho happen is to arrange research that involves chart review. This has two benefits:

1) You can work on it remotely from home at night an on the weekends when you have a spare few minutes. One chart a day doesn't take much time and adds up quick over the course of a semester.

2) Also, if you have down time and work on it in the hospital to those around you it just looks like you're reading about patients so you get the bonus of appearing to do extra work!

 

[celkon]

Wait a few months before you really try to make a go at it, assuming you're just starting 3rd year. Spend this time getting to know how clerkships work, the daily ins and outs, and what peoples' expectations of you are. Learn the basic skills a third year should have (performing a comprehensive physical exam, writing an H&P, writing a good SOAP note, presenting patients efficiently on rounds, etc). If you're fortunate enough to have "lighter" rotations during the middle/end of third year, this is great as it will allow you to finally spend some time trying to work some research in.

One thing you will learn as third year goes on is how much you can "get away with" as far as ducking out. For instance, at my school there were several ways to get afternoons off (sometimes even entire days off). A few examples were:

1. Pediatrics - during our 3 weeks of outpatient peds, we spent mornings in a continuity clinic (that required our attendance), but afternoons were subspecialty clinics where the preceptors never actually realized ahead of time that a med student was going to be showing up, and there was no accountability and no reporting back to the clerkship director. Hence, you could just not show up for most of the afternoons during those 3 weeks, without any real repercussions.

2. Neurology - we spent 4 weeks on inpatient services, and every week we had one afternoon assigned to us individually where we were supposed to go "shadow" in a neuro subspecialty clinic (sleep medicine, movement disorders, etc). Again, the docs generally didn't realize we were showing up, and were often a little annoyed to have students slow them down, so I usually just spent that afternoon heading over to the derm clinic to work with the derm people who would eventually be writing my LORs.

3. Surgery - 3 of our 12 weeks were spent on "elective" services (again, mostly subspecialties . . . notice a pattern here?) like ortho, ENT, anesthesiology, etc. In anesthesiology you basically went in for a couple hours in the morning and they dismissed you home. So, afternoons off all week. Similar deal with most of the other ones. None of those weeks counted towards our evals/grades, so once people realized that it was easy to get time off to do whatever (research, study for the shelf, etc).

4. Family Medicine - I lucked out in that my preceptor was in the community and only worked 3 1/2 days per week. So I had 1 1/2 days off each week, plus weekends. One of my classmates who worked with that same doc later in the year used to make up "conferences" that he had to attend to get out of even more clinic time.

You get the idea. Basically, you have to figure out as third year goes along just how far you're willing to push the envelope.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS!!!

I have noticed the trend of "how much you can get away with". There are plenty of opportunities to duck out when you know the doc's really don't need you and you are just slowing them down. I just have to make the most of these because really I can only do research between 8-5pm. I am on psych right now so I wanted to get started earlier because its one of the most laid back rotations and I feel as I will have more chances now vs. later.

 

[celkon]

I think the above advice is all great! I'll add that one way to make tho happen is to arrange research that involves chart review. This has two benefits:

1) You can work on it remotely from home at night an on the weekends when you have a spare few minutes. One chart a day doesn't take much time and adds up quick over the course of a semester.

2) Also, if you have down time and work on it in the hospital to those around you it just looks like you're reading about patients so you get the bonus of appearing to do extra work!

!!! 🙂 nice advice, currently the project I got put on involves me going to the lab to carry out the experiment. Gota find time to sneak away.

 

[Cinclus]

I think the above advice is all great! I'll add that one way to make tho happen is to arrange research that involves chart review. This has two benefits:

1) You can work on it remotely from home at night an on the weekends when you have a spare few minutes. One chart a day doesn't take much time and adds up quick over the course of a semester.

2) Also, if you have down time and work on it in the hospital to those around you it just looks like you're reading about patients so you get the bonus of appearing to do extra work!

I'm tucking this away in my memory for 1.5 years from now when I start my clinicals. Thanks for the good ideas! 👍

 

[Buzz Me]

I helped with a chart review paper during the first three years of med school, as well as a poster project (something separate) and a brief intervention-based study. You just have to make time - and accept that you'll be tired a lot. I would meet my research mentor 2-3 times a week even on busy rotations...and often this meant 7-8 pm. In the end, it was worth it since I got publications/poster presentations/conference presentations out of it.

 

[rocketbooster]

Wait a few months before you really try to make a go at it, assuming you're just starting 3rd year. Spend this time getting to know how clerkships work, the daily ins and outs, and what peoples' expectations of you are. Learn the basic skills a third year should have (performing a comprehensive physical exam, writing an H&P, writing a good SOAP note, presenting patients efficiently on rounds, etc). If you're fortunate enough to have "lighter" rotations during the middle/end of third year, this is great as it will allow you to finally spend some time trying to work some research in.

One thing you will learn as third year goes on is how much you can "get away with" as far as ducking out. For instance, at my school there were several ways to get afternoons off (sometimes even entire days off). A few examples were:

1. Pediatrics - during our 3 weeks of outpatient peds, we spent mornings in a continuity clinic (that required our attendance), but afternoons were subspecialty clinics where the preceptors never actually realized ahead of time that a med student was going to be showing up, and there was no accountability and no reporting back to the clerkship director. Hence, you could just not show up for most of the afternoons during those 3 weeks, without any real repercussions.

2. Neurology - we spent 4 weeks on inpatient services, and every week we had one afternoon assigned to us individually where we were supposed to go "shadow" in a neuro subspecialty clinic (sleep medicine, movement disorders, etc). Again, the docs generally didn't realize we were showing up, and were often a little annoyed to have students slow them down, so I usually just spent that afternoon heading over to the derm clinic to work with the derm people who would eventually be writing my LORs.

3. Surgery - 3 of our 12 weeks were spent on "elective" services (again, mostly subspecialties . . . notice a pattern here?) like ortho, ENT, anesthesiology, etc. In anesthesiology you basically went in for a couple hours in the morning and they dismissed you home. So, afternoons off all week. Similar deal with most of the other ones. None of those weeks counted towards our evals/grades, so once people realized that it was easy to get time off to do whatever (research, study for the shelf, etc).

4. Family Medicine - I lucked out in that my preceptor was in the community and only worked 3 1/2 days per week. So I had 1 1/2 days off each week, plus weekends. One of my classmates who worked with that same doc later in the year used to make up "conferences" that he had to attend to get out of even more clinic time.

You get the idea. Basically, you have to figure out as third year goes along just how far you're willing to push the envelope.

I feel if you got caught doing this there would be serious repercussions. Something along the line of violation of the honor code, which they basically equate to cheating. Is it really worth the risk?

I know a doctor who caught a resident doing this (said he had to leave early to attend made-up conferences) and as a result got the worst possible eval. If a med student got caught and reported, I think the med school dean would destroy him.

 

[celkon]

I feel if you got caught doing this there would be serious repercussions. Something along the line of violation of the honor code, which they basically equate to cheating. Is it really worth the risk?

I know a doctor who caught a resident doing this (said he had to leave early to attend made-up conferences) and as a result got the worst possible eval. If a med student got caught and reported, I think the med school dean would destroy him.

It all depends on your resident. If a resident say to you "you can go study in the library" I take that as go do what ever you want, you don't have to be around here.

 

[rocketbooster]

It all depends on your resident. If a resident say to you "you can go study in the library" I take that as go do what ever you want, you don't have to be around here.

Obviously. That's not what this guy advised to do though. He said to skip clinic days that you're required to go to if you can sneak and get away with it. In your scenario you're actually reporting in and being dismissed.

 

[celkon]

Obviously. That's not what this guy advised to do though. He said to skip clinic days that you're required to go to if you can sneak and get away with it. In your scenario you're actually reporting in and being dismissed.

Ah yeah. People have been dismissed from our school for that. I have heard alot of stories and I am sure many people get away with it without getting caught.