Any way around this?

[Tristy]

Hey guys,
I just received an interview invite for Case. Here's the thing: I already have an acceptace to Jeff (I sent them a LOIntent post-interview) and although I am more than thrilled about going to Phili I can't stop feeling like I'll be missing out for not going to this other interview. Don't get me wrong, both are great schools. But my question is (and I guess I know the answer, just wanted to know what you guys think), could I pull this going to the Case interview and if a favorable outcome results see who gives me a better financial package (regardless of the LOI), or am I screwed? I'm just a little scared since Jeff is SO expensive....Thanks!

PS: I had to send the LOI because as a reapplicant I was totally freaked out about not getting in this year....

 

[N1DERL&]

Gosh that's a tricky situation.

In my opinion, LOI's aren't technically binding. You just end up looking like a schmuck if you don't follow through on your intentions.

But you sound like you want to go on this interview. I think you should go to Case's interview, get the acceptance from them, then decide what to do next.

Gluck!

 

[Tristy]

Gosh that's a tricky situation.

In my opinion, LOI's aren't technically binding. You just end up looking like a schmuck if you don't follow through on your intentions.

But you sound like you want to go on this interview. I think you should go to Case's interview, get the acceptance from them, then decide what to do next.

Gluck!

Thank for the encouragement N1DERL& That's exactly what scares me--> looking like an idiot (not mention an unethical idiot) but also the whole conspiracy theory of communication between schools, and ending up with my acceptance rescinded
But then again, I wish I could keep my options open (especially bc of the financial part).
I am curious though, I was runnig a search on LOI's and i came across this from UF:

"Following acceptance, a candidate is required to provide a written statement of intent to the Admissions Office. A $200 deposit is also required from accepted applicants. If the applicant is subsequently accepted by another school that he or she prefers, the applicant is obligated to notify the College of Medicine Admissions Office immediately with a written letter of intent to withdraw acceptance. If an accepted applicant withdraws after May 15, the deposit will not be refunded. "

Any thoughts on this?

 

[angel5]

"If the applicant is subsequently accepted by another school that he or she prefers, the applicant is obligated to notify the College of Medicine Admissions Office immediately with a written letter of intent to withdraw acceptance."

I'd say go on the interview. You have nothing to lose. Best wishes

Angel

 

[BMW M3]

Hairy situation you're in. I don't see anything wrong with going to a Case interview. However, if you go back on your Jefferson acceptance, you may risk the reputation of all subsequent applicants from your school.

Do what feels right

 

[Tristy]

Hairy situation you're in. I don't see anything wrong with going to a Case interview. However, if you go back on your Jefferson acceptance, you may risk the reputation of all subsequent applicants from your school.

Do what feels right

I know It certainly is an awful situation...What feels pseudo right would be to go and wait, but then comes the conspiracy theory again....I'm looking at this from strictly a financial aid point of view <sigh> But thanks for your reply!

I'd say go on the interview. You have nothing to lose. Best wishes

Thanks Angel, I just saw that at UF's website and it made me wonder to what extent are LOI's binding, I mean, if a school is telling you "ok, write one and then if you decide to go somewhere else, errrr, withdraw with another LOI". Jeeeez, I can't believe my hair hasn't turned white yet

Angel

 

[rhystheprince]

First of all, congrats on getting into Jeff. It's a great school in a fantastic city.

I have to say that LOI is a pretty big deal for many schools. However, what you could do is to go ahead with the interview at Case, and see what happens. Worst case scenario ethically (i.e. best case scenario for an applicant, really) you'll get into Case and could go ahead with the FinAid to see the packages. At the end of the process, if the difference was not that big, do not risk your reputation and stick to Jeff. However if the Case package was just outrageously (and I mean OUTRAGEOUSLY) better, then decide whether you'd like living in Cleveland and Case with that package for 4 years (and pretty much forget about EVER landing a residency position at Jeff) OR stay at Jeff and work it in Philly. Either case, be completely honest about this, and if asked by either school tell them the whole situation. They'll definitely understand your situation.

Only one last thing, don't lie or deny things. Schools talk to each other when they believe an applicant is playing them and that's when things get hairy.

Good luck w/ everything...

 

[pseudoknot]

Thanks Angel, I just saw that at UF's website and it made me wonder to what extent are LOI's binding, I mean, if a school is telling you "ok, write one and then if you decide to go somewhere else, errrr, withdraw with another LOI".

That statement was clearly referring to a letter you write them AFTER they have already accepted you. If you tell a school before they accept you that you will go there if they do take you, and that you'll withdraw from other schools, then you'd better do it. Otherwise you're breaking your word. Will the other school find out? Will you lose both acceptances? Probably not, but it would be well deserved if it did happen.

Did you say that you would withdraw from other schools in your letter to Jeff? What exactly did you tell them?

 

[Tristy]

First of all, congrats on getting into Jeff. It's a great school in a fantastic city.

I have to say that LOI is a pretty big deal for many schools. However, what you could do is to go ahead with the interview at Case, and see what happens. Worst case scenario ethically (i.e. best case scenario for an applicant, really) you'll get into Case and could go ahead with the FinAid to see the packages. At the end of the process, if the difference was not that big, do not risk your reputation and stick to Jeff. However if the Case package was just outrageously (and I mean OUTRAGEOUSLY) better, then decide whether you'd like living in Cleveland and Case with that package for 4 years (and pretty much forget about EVER landing a residency position at Jeff) OR stay at Jeff and work it in Philly. Either case, be completely honest about this, and if asked by either school tell them the whole situation. They'll definitely understand your situation.

Only one last thing, don't lie or deny things. Schools talk to each other when they believe an applicant is playing them and that's when things get hairy.

Good luck w/ everything...

That's an awsome plan (And I guess that with outrageously you mean >$30000 difference right?). Thanks for the advice, I will definitely NOT lie if asked about this, I mean, medschools should understand that money can play a big part in the decision (heck, even they entice you with scolarship money to go to their schools). Oh well, I guess I can go on another trip hehe, I don't mind going to Cleveland for the first time ever

I feel much much better about the whole thing, Thank you guys, you rock!!!!!

 

[Tristy]

That statement was clearly referring to a letter you write them AFTER they have already accepted you. If you tell a school before they accept you that you will go there if they do take you, and that you'll withdraw from other schools, then you'd better do it. Otherwise you're breaking your word. Will the other school find out? Will you lose both acceptances? Probably not, but it would be well deserved if it did happen.

Did you say that you would withdraw from other schools in your letter to Jeff? What exactly did you tell them?

No need to be mean, jeeeez. I didn't say in my letter that I would withdraw from other schools because I wasn't accepted anywhere else, just waitlisted at Rochester. I wrote to the dean and told her why I loved Jeff (which I really meant), and that if offered an acceptace "I would like to take this opportunity to express my genuine interest in Jefferson Medical College ..." and "I can guarantee without hesitation that I will matriculate if offered admission." I also wrote how it was my top choice, etc. But I never mentioned other schools. Does it change anything? Listen, I am just confused, I want to have a choice when it comes to money if there's a big difference between the schools, what would you do?

 

[jebus]

"I can guarantee without hesitation that I will matriculate if offered admission."

Well, how much is your word worth to you? My word is all I have. But that's just me. The worst thing is you lose your integrity if you go somewhere else. On the other hand, if you don't plan on going to Jefferson for a residency they'll never care. It's your call.

 

[pseudoknot]

No need to be mean, jeeeez.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I am going to be honest, and that may involve saying things you don't want to hear.

I didn't say in my letter that I would withdraw from other schools because I wasn't accepted anywhere else, just waitlisted at Rochester. I wrote to the dean and told her why I loved Jeff (which I really meant), and that if offered an acceptace "I would like to take this opportunity to express my genuine interest in Jefferson Medical College ..."

OK. If you'd stopped there, I would say that at this point you could do whatever you want.

and "I can guarantee without hesitation that I will matriculate if offered admission."

Here is the problem. You told Jeff that if they accepted you, you would matriculate there. Not that you'd strongly consider it, or that you'd hold onto their offer until something better came along, but that you would go, period. With that, you closed off your other options.

Listen, I am just confused, I want to have a choice when it comes to money if there's a big difference between the schools, what would you do?

Well, I would not have written a letter committing to a school unless I were prepared to follow through with it. I understand that you want to have flexibility, compare aid packages, etc., but so do most people. By telling Jefferson in advance of their decision that you would go there no matter what, you were essentially trading away that flexibility in order to make yourself a more attractive candidate.

I really think you are ethically bound to uphold your agreement with Jefferson, which means that you can't go anywhere else. Therefore going to other interviews is pointless.

However, this would not apply if Jefferson released you from that agreement. Why don't you call them up and explain your situation, and ask if they want to hold you to it? They can't retract your acceptance just for asking a question. Maybe they'd say it's fine for you to consider other offers. If they said "no, you better not do that," at least you'd know in advance how they felt.

 

[Tristy]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I am going to be honest, and that may involve saying things you don't want to hear.


OK. If you'd stopped there, I would say that at this point you could do whatever you want.


Here is the problem. You told Jeff that if they accepted you, you would matriculate there. Not that you'd strongly consider it, or that you'd hold onto their offer until something better came along, but that you would go, period. With that, you closed off your other options.


Well, I would not have written a letter committing to a school unless I were prepared to follow through with it. I understand that you want to have flexibility, compare aid packages, etc., but so do most people. By telling Jefferson in advance of their decision that you would go there no matter what, you were essentially trading away that flexibility in order to make yourself a more attractive candidate.

I really think you are ethically bound to uphold your agreement with Jefferson, which means that you can't go anywhere else. Therefore going to other interviews is pointless.

However, this would not apply if Jefferson released you from that agreement. Why don't you call them up and explain your situation, and ask if they want to hold you to it? They can't retract your acceptance just for asking a question. Maybe they'd say it's fine for you to consider other offers. If they said "no, you better not do that," at least you'd know in advance how they felt.

You have a point, and I guess calling the school would be a very good first step to figuring this thing out. Like I said before, (and I know you guys are right about not writing the darn LOI if I wouldn't plan to stick to my word), I wrote it because 1) I loved the school and the location 2) I'm a scared reapplicant 3) I'm a scared reapplicant. I will call them though, and if they say "NO!" then I will keep my word and matriculate, and if they don't care, I might as well see what happens with Case.

Thanks for the advice Jdrnbenjamin & Desiredusername

 

[DeadorAlive]

Tristy, I would hold off on calling. I agree that, as you worded your letter so strongly, you are as of now committed to jefferson. I would wait, see the financial aid, then call and say that financial aid considerations are compelling you to reconsider... then see what they can do.

No need to seem wishy-washy before you even know whether you've gotten into case or not. If and when it becomes an issue, you'll be armed with actual numbers and an offer to back up your point. I would think that schools are sympathetic to financial concerns, and less so to "i changed my mind". Who knows, if it's really a drastic difference, Jefferson may even be able to counter-offer.

However, I would only do this -- at all -- if you fall in love with case AND if the money is QUITE substantial.... you did make an early commitment.

 

[C.P. Jones]

and through all of this, what do we forget? we forget about poor little tommy jefferson. the lil' guy said he'd let you in his club after you said you would go if he said ok...and now you're considering leaving his club...i hope you're happy!

j/k: i agree w/ deadoralive though

 

[-Goose-]

yeah... nobody loves lil ol' tommy...


anyway,

is it ok to send a 'loi' saying that 'right now school Z is my top choice... and this timely acceptance has allowed me to withdraw from some other schools saving $ and time' ... even if you are still waiting to hear back from other schools?

...

 

[NapeSpikes]

I wrote to the dean, "I can guarantee without hesitation that I will matriculate if offered admission." ...if there's a big difference between [financial aid of] the schools, what would you do?

I feel you on the money situation, but you should've never written that LOI to Jefferson if financial aid was going to dictate where you choose to matriculate.

Bottom line and probably not what you want to hear, I'd stick with my word.

 

[Tristy]

Tough decision....I think then what I'll do is just go and see what happens with financial aid

I don't regret sending the letter (well, if I had had a crystal ball things would be different, but it's still at the shop ). Try doing 4 years of medical school in another country, then coming here (for reasons that are too long to explain), having to get your bachelors (so add another 4 years), having to take an August MCAT and therefore being somewhat late in the process (for personal circumstances), having 4 interviews and end up waitlisted everywhere. So you reapply and you only had 2 interviews at the time, waitlisted at school #1, and not getting any younger. I don't want a pity party, but don't tell me what I did was wrong because at the time it seemed like the ONLY option I had.

Regardless, I really appreciate all the advice you guys gave me, now I kinda know how to tackle the problems. Thanks!!

 

[ti89]

Go to the interview. Getting an interview and acceptance are two different things also. If you have an acceptance then think about this possibility and what to do.

 

[Tristy]

Go to the interview. Getting an interview and acceptance are two different things also. If you have an acceptance then think about this possibility and what to do.

Very true. I see you also got into Jeff , how did you like the school? Are you waiting on finaid package to decide?

 

[N1DERL&]

Hey Tristy! Wow you've got some major schoolage! Congrats on the Jefferson acceptance!!

So letters aside.... are you going on the Case interview? Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[hanjoko]

Go to the interview. Getting an interview and acceptance are two different things also. If you have an acceptance then think about this possibility and what to do.

Just my 0.02...

You can definitely go to the interview, and see if you REALLY like the school and if the financial situation is REALLY FAR BETTER (like if they give you a full ride or something like that...)

I understand that writing a LOIntent felt right when you wrote it, but if I were you, I would probably still go to Jeff just because I said I WILL. I would try very hard to keep my promises because that is all I have. I want to be responsible for my decisions...so, if I were you, I would still go to Jeff.

But, hey..it is your life and it is your decision. Who am I to tell you what to do, right?

 

[Tristy]

Hey Tristy! Wow you've got some major schoolage! Congrats on the Jefferson acceptance!!

So letters aside.... are you going on the Case interview? Enquiring minds want to know!

Thanks! Yeap, it's been a crazy journey! As for Case, I'm gonna go, I don't want to live with the "what if?". We'll see what happens, I might end up waitlisted there too ! (And BTW I'm already cancelling my NYMC interview so somebody else can take my spot). But seriously though, I'll go and then see what happens with financial aid (in case of acceptance), if the difference is huge, well....then I'll worry about it.

 

[Wednesday]

Hi Tristy,

Reneging on your LOI to Jefferson is probably going to have absolutely NO effect on your residency options there in the future as those are two completely separate processes (someone mentioned this, just wanted to clear that up a little). As for affecting your acceptance somewhere else, I really doubt that it will matter at all. I don't know how much an LOI plays into a decision (only the adcom really knows that). I know that schools (and especially Jefferson in particular) are very interested in taking applicants who really want to be there, so it may play into the decision. However, schools also know that things like this happen--that some applicants say anything (regardless of the circumstances, this is basically what you did) to get in, so I suspect that they also take these things with a grain of salt. There is no proof that you would not have been accepted if you'd just stuck with "I really loved the school" and not made the promise.

The problem with going back on your word is that it makes all future LOIs by everyone else less effective. I guess maybe I would say that you should learn from this and NOT repeat it when you apply for residency where it can really mess a program's rank list up. THOSE people will be remembered (all of our PDs have stories about them) and that really can affect your future. Like many posters on here, I personally would not go back on my word, but I think that the general theme is that most of us wouldn't have written the letter in the first place. This is a very personal decision and will probably have more impact on your personal integrity than on what ultimately happens with your acceptance(s).

 

[silas2642]

Hey guys,
I just received an interview invite for Case. Here's the thing: I already have an acceptace to Jeff (I sent them a LOIntent post-interview) and although I am more than thrilled about going to Phili I can't stop feeling like I'll be missing out for not going to this other interview. Don't get me wrong, both are great schools. But my question is (and I guess I know the answer, just wanted to know what you guys think), could I pull this going to the Case interview and if a favorable outcome results see who gives me a better financial package (regardless of the LOI), or am I screwed? I'm just a little scared since Jeff is SO expensive....Thanks!

PS: I had to send the LOI because as a reapplicant I was totally freaked out about not getting in this year....

I'd cancel Case. You told Jefferson that you would go if you got accepted, and part of the reason they accepted you may have very well been your strong letter of intent. If you go somewhere else, Jefferson may tell Case that you are a liar and you may end up nowhere; I have heard of this worst case scenario happening to people. Although letters of intent may not legally be binding, the word of a future physician is certainly important. I agree with the previous poster in saying that a person is only as good as his word.

 

[Tristy]

I'd cancel Case. You told Jefferson that you would go if you got accepted, and part of the reason they accepted you may have very well been your strong letter of intent. If you go somewhere else, Jefferson may tell Case that you are a liar and you may end up nowhere; I have heard of this worst case scenario happening to people. Although letters of intent may not legally be binding, the word of a future physician is certainly important. I agree with the previous poster in saying that a person is only as good as his word.

I agree with you and Wednesday, and true, I'll never know how much the letter counted on my acceptance. But like I said, I'm the one that's gonna rack up the debt (and you know we're not talking about pennies here, and yes, I knew about debt when applying, the LOI, the whole combo ), so what if one of the schools offered me a $50,000 difference or even better (yeah, I'll keep dreaming hehe) a full-ride? Do you think the other school would not understand this? I' not saying I'll break my promise, heck, I loved Jefferson but the cost scares me (not to mention that I didn't see anywhere in their finaid package that they even have full-rides), and when and if the situation arises I'll work with the schools, just like other posters suggested. Most likely (as in 90% to put it some way) I'll be attending Jefferson, I have no problem with that because I give a rat's a$$ about the Uh,Oh!USNews Rankings. I'm talking strictly about money because I'm a poor Venezuelan (j/k) (I hope our president will pay someday for destroying the country , sorry had to throw that in there ). Thanks for the input though

 

[veenut]

i think you should cancel the Case interview and go to Jefferson. Every time an applicant doesn't make good on their LOI, it devalues the letter so that the next time Jefferson gets one from an applicant, they'll be less inclined to trust it. It sucks that it might end up costing you money in the long run, but in hindsight if you were that worried about costs, you probalby should have sent a letter of interest instead of intent.

 

[Tristy]

i think you should cancel the Case interview and go to Jefferson. Every time an applicant doesn't make good on their LOI, it devalues the letter so that the next time Jefferson gets one from an applicant, they'll be less inclined to trust it. It sucks that it might end up costing you money in the long run, but in hindsight if you were that worried about costs, you probalby should have sent a letter of interest instead of intent.

I think I'm just "drowning in a glass of water" (don't know if you guys have a saying like this in English), and "mea culpa mea culpa mea culpa", I know what I should've done but, can't turn back time. And, besides, I have absolutely no problem with going to Jeff, it was the school that I liked the most (even more than other Ivy league school I interviewed at).
I think I'll just stop stressing out (and probably forget about Case, this is way too stressing and I already have an ulcer, literally ), 'cause I'm leaving to Florida in a few hours to see my parents that I haven't seen in a year! Yai!!!!