ANYBODY can be book-smart...

[confused1234]

just because you have a high gpa doesn't mean you're smart... because a lot of "smart" people i know are some of the dumbest as well. anyone can apply themselves and make good grades.

yes?

you're probably wondering why i posted this, so i'll just say it stems from my frustration with arrogance.

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[MrDreamWeaver]

yeah you're right to a certain extent.

but smarter people have an easier time crasping concepts (esp. in physics and chemistry) while it takes others a much longer time.

 

[MedicineNutt]

i definitely agree with the OP...some 4.0ers barely have any common sense versus any genius! im guilty of bein a high GPA dumb student, but i aint pullin a 4.0

 

[Rafa]

Whoa whoa whoa - it sounds like you might be confusing being smart with being studious. In my experience, some of the smartest folks out there have been the ones with low to middle-range GPAs, simply because they're off doing things that interest them more than the classes they take. The "smart" people are the ones who get good grades with minimal studying, or who ace standardized tests (cough/MCAT/cough) without blowing 2 grand on prep courses. A high GPA doesn't necessarily indicate anything more than a person's capacity to study consistently. The other kind of smartness (kids who are just smart) isn't always represented by scholastic grades.

Actually, upon review of your post, it sounds like we're approaching the same target from different angles. So it's all good.

 

[NonTradMed]

Whoa whoa whoa - it sounds like you might be confusing being smart with being studious. In my experience, some of the smartest folks out there have been the ones with low to middle-range GPAs, simply because they're off doing things that interest them more than the classes they take. The "smart" people are the ones who get good grades with minimal studying, or who ace standardized tests (cough/MCAT/cough) without blowing 2 grand on prep courses. A high GPA doesn't necessarily indicate anything more than a person's capacity to study consistently. The other kind of smartness (kids who are just smart) isn't always represented by scholastic grades.

Exactly. Being smart and being studious are two different things.

 

[lilnoelle]

I would say this differently. There are different types of intelligence. Some people have the capacity to memorize better than others. Some people are more spatially intelligent, some people are socially intelligent, some have creative genious, some are street smart, others have business intelligence. In general, I would say that most people are talented at something and that should determine what type of job they get into. So instead of being insulting, we ought to try to maximize on other's abilities.

 

[OctoDoc]

What about the other way around? Would you call someone smart that is wise and worldly, but dumb as a post in terms of rote knowledge? Not me.

 

[adiddas125]

to the OP...

I think your statement might be valid in certain situations and certain people, but overall smart people have good GPA's. Having a good GPA doesnt translate directly into being a great doctor, but it is just a way for you to show the AD COM that you are in this for the long haul and that you really understand how to study. I also think that your experiences in college from your classes help you study effectively for your MCAT's and lay the groundwork from which your study habits and academic performance will be like in medical school.

It is one thing to know how to get good grades, but it is another thing to be able to earn good grades. You cannot knock people for getting high grades. 🙂

 

[billclinton]

just because you have a high gpa doesn't mean you're smart... because a lot of "smart" people i know are some of the dumbest as well. anyone can apply themselves and make good grades.

yes?

you're probably wondering why i posted this, so i'll just say it stems from my frustration with arrogance.

It's ok. I am sure you can work hard and boost that GPA. Try studying a little harder.

 

[OctoDoc]

I would say this differently. There are different types of intelligence. Some people have the capacity to memorize better than others. Some people are more spatially intelligent, some people are socially intelligent, some have creative genious, some are street smart, others have business intelligence. In general, I would say that most people are talented at something and that should determine what type of job they get into. So instead of being insulting, we ought to try to maximize on other's abilities.

It sounds like you are spitting hairs to pacify everyone. i.e. everyone is smart at something.

What about general, or global, intelligence? That is what most people think when they hear the words smart or intelligent.

 

[confused1234]

i completely agree with everything that has been said. there are different types of intelligence, and we all have our strengths and weaknesses and yadda yadda yadda, but some people act like they OWN you because they have a higher GPA (and nothing more).

i mean, if you have a high GPA, then congratulations and more power to you, but don't see it as a reason to be a high-and-mighty jerk... haha

that's all i was saying.

 

[confused1234]

It's ok. I am sure you can work hard and boost that GPA. Try studying a little harder.

well, you know.

 

[lilnoelle]

It sounds like you are spitting hairs to pacify everyone. i.e. everyone is smart at something.

What about general, or global, intelligence? That is what most people think when they hear "smart" or "intelligent."

I guess what I am saying is that I had a tendency to think of myself as intelligent... but I am not creative at all. I admire those that are, and wish I was. I also have been labeled as having "little common sense". (which of course I will argue otherwise) I realized that there are different types of intelligence and the fact that I am "book smart" does not make me any worthier nor lower my worth than those around me who have different talents. Not better or worse, just different. As much as I want to, I will probably never be a creative genious. This limits my career options more than my desire to go into those fields does. i.e. I love to paint and draw. I just hate labels. I've been labeled and have been tempted to label others. I think we all have great potential to do something worthwhile with our life, its just whether we use our potential or find our niche that determines the outcome.

 

[LadyDiamond]

Whoa whoa whoa - it sounds like you might be confusing being smart with being studious. In my experience, some of the smartest folks out there have been the ones with low to middle-range GPAs, simply because they're off doing things that interest them more than the classes they take. The "smart" people are the ones who get good grades with minimal studying, or who ace standardized tests (cough/MCAT/cough) without blowing 2 grand on prep courses. A high GPA doesn't necessarily indicate anything more than a person's capacity to study consistently. The other kind of smartness (kids who are just smart) isn't always represented by scholastic grades.

Actually, upon review of your post, it sounds like we're approaching the same target from different angles. So it's all good.

I agree. Because I have a very high GPA but I am humble about it because it did not come easy. I tell people all the time though that I get good grades not because I am Albert Einstein but because I study my butt off. I have commitment and perseverance. I am not the fastest thinker but I am a life-long learner.

 

[njbmd]

just because you have a high gpa doesn't mean you're smart... because a lot of "smart" people i know are some of the dumbest as well. anyone can apply themselves and make good grades.

yes?

you're probably wondering why i posted this, so i'll just say it stems from my frustration with arrogance.

Hi there,
I tend to agree with you in that high GPAs may not indicate a high IQ (that is, if IQ is your criterion for "smart"). I do believe that there are many different aspects to being "smart", not the least of which, is being able to solve problems.

I believe that problem-solving is one of the best characteristics for success in medicine (and perhaps in life). To take this a step further, being able to adapt to changing conditions and solving problems are good characteristics to have in any aspect of medicine.

Problem-solving can be taught, largely through self instruction. Being adaptable is something that is probably learned through practice under different conditions.

I have little problems with arrogance if you have the means to back up your arrogance. Having a high GPA is not one of the means to back up your arrogance. I have found from experience that sometimes arrogance masks great insecurity in the first place.

I have worked with some brilliant physicians who are not arrogant at all. They are superb problem-solvers and they are very comfortable in their "skin". After all, any human being that you encounter is a wonder in many ways. As you mature, you learn to "run your own race" and challenge yourself. You also learn not to be frustrated by the insane actions of others that has no bearing on the job at hand.

njbmd 🙂

P.S. Very normal IQ here but good GPA and MCAT, good USMLEs too and loads of very hard work.

 

[MedicineNutt]

^^people always look for a humble and competant doctor...Arrogance is a mutha 😉

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Yeah arrogance is annoying. Sure, GPA is not a measure of "smartness"...but I think there are more "smart" people who do poorly in school than there are people with super high GPA's who are dumb. There are plenty different things that make you smart, and I don't see why we tend to value the part of your brain that allows you to work and study hard more or less than the part that provides one with some sort of innate gift. Does a killer GPA make you smart...yeah I think it does. Does a low GPA make you dumb, of course not.

 

[medking]

i completely agree with everything that has been said. there are different types of intelligence, and we all have our strengths and weaknesses and yadda yadda yadda, but some people act like they OWN you because they have a higher GPA (and nothing more).

i mean, if you have a high GPA, then congratulations and more power to you, but don't see it as a reason to be a high-and-mighty jerk... haha

that's all i was saying.

Well first of all I don't understand what your definition of "smart" is. Second, get a high GPA and then speak. It's pretty sad when people just say bad things about others that are doing better than they are.

Now, I think a "smart" person is a person that can solve problems. The end. So if a person is maintaining a high GPA with the intent of accomplishing his/her goals then that can also be considered as "smart" to me.

Finally, good luck with your studies. If your answers to the "why am I doing this?" questions are strong enough, then nothing can stop you from accomplishing your goals.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Yeah arrogance is annoying. Sure, GPA is not a measure of "smartness"...but I think there are more "smart" people who do poorly in school than there are people with super high GPA's who are dumb. There are plenty different things that make you smart, and I don't see why we tend to value the part of your brain that allows you to work and study hard more or less than the part that provides one with some sort of innate gift. Does a killer GPA make you smart...yeah I think it does. Does a low GPA make you dumb, of course not.

it really depends on the motivation one possesses. Usually, smart people are more constructive and ideal thinkers (IMO)!!

Motivation is key when pursuing a desired GPA or MCAT

 

[lilnoelle]

Well first of all I don't understand what your definition of "smart" is. Second, get a high GPA and then speak. It's pretty sad when people just say bad things about others that are doing better than they are.

Now, I think a "smart" person is a person that can solve problems. The end. So if a person is maintaining a high GPA with the intent of accomplishing his/her goals then that can also be considered as "smart" to me.

Finally, good luck with your studies. If your answers to the "why am I doing this?" questions are strong enough, then nothing can stop you from accomplishing your goals.

I'm gonna say that this type of post is the reason the OP started the thread. The truth is we should try not to be condescending to anyone.

 

[confused1234]

I'm gonna say that this type of post is the reason the OP started the thread. The truth is we should try not to be condescending to anyone.

right on.

 

[yomaxpower]

Hi there,
I tend to agree with you in that high GPAs may not indicate a high IQ (that is, if IQ is your criterion for "smart"). I do believe that there are many different aspects to being "smart", not the least of which, is being able to solve problems.

I believe that problem-solving is one of the best characteristics for success in medicine (and perhaps in life). To take this a step further, being able to adapt to changing conditions and solving problems are good characteristics to have in any aspect of medicine.

Problem-solving can be taught, largely through self instruction. Being adaptable is something that is probably learned through practice under different conditions.

I have little problems with arrogance if you have the means to back up your arrogance. Having a high GPA is not one of the means to back up your arrogance. I have found from experience that sometimes arrogance masks great insecurity in the first place.

I have worked with some brilliant physicians who are not arrogant at all. They are superb problem-solvers and they are very comfortable in their "skin". After all, any human being that you encounter is a wonder in many ways. As you mature, you learn to "run your own race" and challenge yourself. You also learn not to be frustrated by the insane actions of others that has no bearing on the job at hand.

njbmd 🙂

P.S. Very normal IQ here but good GPA and MCAT, good USMLEs too and loads of very hard work.

👍 I really like this. GPA has little to do with intelligence, its your ability to solve real life problems that matters.

 

[montessori2md]

as a teacher, I think the sort of people who test well are also often those who "get" the system (that is, they function well in the classroom), which is useful in all sorts of ways. In my classroom, the "smart kids" I struggle with are those who don't function well socially (they're condescending know it alls, they annoy other children, or are otherwise horrible to be around for their peers). But that's just as true for the kids who aren't "smart".

I hope that's why med schools have interviews -to weed out some of the "children" who are horrible to be around : )

 

[OctoDoc]

I hope that's why med schools have interviews -to weed out some of the "children" who are horrible to be around : )

From some of the stories I've heard here on SDN, med schools need that filter to have smaller holes.

Maybe have the student hosts comment on their guests. (Anyone that b!tches at this one is suspect!)

 

[SeventhSon]

A high GPA doesn't necessarily indicate anything more than a person's capacity to study consistently. The other kind of smartness (kids who are just smart) isn't always represented by scholastic grades.

absolute BS. I don't know what type of class tests you are taking but if you are taking challenging courses (pchem, eng), teachers always get their nice bell curve. There are some people who can figure the stuff on the tests and there are others that never will no matter how much they study.

While I'll be the first the say that medium GPA people aren't necessarily less intelligent than 4.0'ers, the case is usually overstated, and the pendulum has swung too far. Go get a 3.9+ in engineering and then you will have some credence. Most of such people that i've met are very intelligent and work their ass off.

 

[Passion461]

i definitely agree with the OP...some 4.0ers barely have any common sense versus any genius! im guilty of bein a high GPA dumb student, but i aint pullin a 4.0

genius comes in different flavors. My cousin (who is considered a genius because of his crazy IQ) WROTE a quantum physics paper and how he would change some parts of it at age 7!! for a class project, but he couldn't even tie his shoe laces (hmm...he's 24 now, and his shoes still look funny...) anyways, what I mean is that people who get 4.0 gpas in challenging courses are smart at grasping concepts and commiting them to memory. They are the kinds of people that could excell at anything they put their mind to. Others might have great common sense, or can quickly come up with new ideas but don't grasp concepts as easily and thus don't have 4.0 gpas. But they are smart in their own way. unfortunately, life does not have a concrete meter,like a gpa, to measure all kinds of human intelligence. Thus the arrogance of those who do know where they stand on the "learning" meter.
Cheers!

 

[zbruinz]

I think I'm smart, (I get concepts quickly) but I'm not really booksmart because I don't put in the time to study.

Hope to change that in the next four years though! 😀

 

[OctoDoc]

genius comes in different flavors. My cousin (who is considered a genius because of his crazy IQ) WROTE a quantum physics paper and how he would change some parts of it at age 7!! for a class project, but he couldn't even tie his shoe laces (hmm...he's 24 now, and his shoes still look funny...) anyways, what I mean is that people who get 4.0 gpas in challenging courses are smart at grasping concepts and commiting them to memory. They are the kinds of people that could excell at anything they put their mind to. Others might have great common sense, or can quickly come up with new ideas but don't grasp concepts as easily and thus don't have 4.0 gpas. But they are smart in their own way. unfortunately, life does not have a concrete meter,like a gpa, to measure all kinds of human intelligence. Thus the arrogance of those who do know where they stand on the "learning" meter.
Cheers!

Are you sure you didn't mean to say that he wrote a paper about quantum physics? I don't care how smart one can be, I doubt a seven-year old can write a scholarly quantum mechanics paper.

 

[Slobban]

I am not going to be able to be PC modest throughout this post, so please be forwarned.

I agree that GPA is really not an indicator of intelligence. In almost every one of my classes, the exams have tested information, not comprehension and problem solving skills. I know many people whose GPA embaresses me that will still ask me for help when they don't understand something. I am more of a believer in the MCAT as an indication of problem solving ability, the GPA as an indicator of the ability to study, and the interview as an indicator of communication skills.

Just as a story about the MCAT. I have a terrible GPA(2.5ish) but problem solving is my forte. I never took physics, took one year of chem (got a C) took orgo for stupid people (half year) and got a D. Last year at the end of my school year I decided to write the MCAT (withholding reasons due to personal issues). I did not take a course, I just picked up a comprehensive guide and went at it for a couple months. Wrote it and got a 39 (14BS, 13VR, 12PS). Why? was it because my study habits were good? I think the 2.5 shows you how untrue that is. My history in hte MCAT subjects should also show my prior knowledge was subpar. The only reason I did well was because I have the ability to analyse, comprehend, interpret, in a word, solve problems.

Anyway, my GPA obviously shows that I so not have the study skills for med school, so it does show something, but it is not an indicator of raw ability at all.

 

[Passion461]

Are you sure you didn't mean to say that he wrote a paper about quantum physics? I don't care how smart one can be, I doubt a seven-year old can write a scholarly quantum mechanics paper.

yes, i meant "about". It was a 13 page paper and I know because his parents brag about until today, and MADE the rest of teh family read it. I don't even want to remember...

 

[austinap]

One thing I've noticed is that I typically do much better at hard classes than I do in easy ones. I usually end up pulling A-'s and B's in general classes (as with lower level science classes, etc), but when it comes to the tough stuff, I'm top of my class every time. I attribute this to the fact that most lower level classes test your ability to jump through hoops and memorize material, while 'harder' classes test your ability to actually use concepts and apply them to things you haven't seen before. I've also noticed that people that get better grades than I do in certain classes often have no ability to actually apply the concepts they've learned. A generalization of course, but one that I've found to be true much of the time.

Whenever I go to the study rooms in the chem/bio/physics departments here, I end up teaching concepts to people who have much better GPA's than I do. It isn't because I'm lazy at all, but I just can't see the point in memorizing what a term is verbatim without having any idea what it really means. I can give a working definition for almost everything, but I most likely won't use the same words as the text-book author or even the professor of the class.

 

[akinf]

GPA is an excellent indicator of study skills and commitment to learning. However, what is MCAT an indicator of? The MCAT, sure standardized, is like any other test. If you can get a feel for the type of questions, the methods of analysis, and types of responses, acing the MCAT would not be a problem. However, this is much harder done than said. But the fact that most students who enter competitive fields, win major awards, and go on to great success is a good indication of desirable intelligence. It has been recognized that there are different types of intelligence, but to criticize those with high GPAs by saying they aren't that smart is a cop out to me. Studying hard to get good grades is an intelligent action to me, not studying even though you know high grades are required is unintelligent to me. Problem solving ability is an excellent indicator of...problem solving ability, not whatever type of intelligence is being discussed. So, what am I getting at here? GPA is an indication of the type of intelligence we all need to succeed in this age, but it is not a parameter to success. There are many without stellar GPAs who do succeed, but MANY with stellar GPAs go on to great things, and that is because they are considered intelligent.

 

[trustwomen]

While I'll be the first the say that medium GPA people aren't necessarily less intelligent than 4.0'ers, the case is usually overstated, and the pendulum has swung too far. Go get a 3.9+ in engineering and then you will have some credence. Most of such people that i've met are very intelligent and work their ass off.

GPA can be affected by so many other things though... having to work your way through school, family responsibilities, etc... or just pure and simple motivation. Obviously, people have to have an inherent intellectual ability to do really well (unless they are cheating scum), but not all smart people will have high GPAs. I think that was the OP's point, and I agree fully that arrogance is unpretty. Even arrogance that can be "backed up" by an extremely high intelligence is a wildly unattractive trait.

 

[colt]

I agree, some people don't make great grades because they have other stuff to do---work, parties, girls, tv etc.

 

[pokeytu]

You see this all the time around here with posts asking about taking Physics w/o calculus and what math courses to take. Those are 2 areas that involve understanding concepts and applying them (sounds like something we all hope to be doing later in life), but people with people with 3.6+ GPAs struggle with basic physics and calc because they are the memorize and repeat type student. Fields like engineering teach you a way of thinking that can be applied to any area, and in general GPAs remain relatively low but I'm sure no one would say they aren't intelligent.

 

[SeventhSon]

GPA can be affected by so many other things though... having to work your way through school, family responsibilities, etc... or just pure and simple motivation. Obviously, people have to have an inherent intellectual ability to do really well (unless they are cheating scum), but not all smart people will have high GPAs. I think that was the OP's point, and I agree fully that arrogance is unpretty. Even arrogance that can be "backed up" by an extremely high intelligence is a wildly unattractive trait.

yes, that is exactly why I agree that GPA is not a great indicator. That being said, realize that 'intelligence' is a loosely defined idea. I tend to define it as ability to solve problems. It is something that definitely can 'increase' with practice. People who seem to be really intelligent but don't put in hard work will tend to have lower IQ, hard working people 'catch up' with them in terms of problem solving ability.'

to get back to your point though, i don't think schools like nearly closely enough at how many hours people have to work during school.

 

[funshine]

I think if you're pulling anywhere near a 4.0 gpa and you're not that bright (but work very hard, etc.) then your classes must not be challenging enough. If you put a bunch of students through a difficult enough school, you'll quickly find that the ones who perform best on exams (written/oral/lab/whatever) are in fact, usually the smartest ones.

 

[mychelle774]

From some of the stories I've heard here on SDN, med schools need that filter to have smaller holes.

Maybe have the student hosts comment on their guests. (Anyone that b!tches at this one is suspect!)

Amen!

 

[mychelle774]

You see this all the time around here with posts asking about taking Physics w/o calculus and what math courses to take. Those are 2 areas that involve understanding concepts and applying them (sounds like something we all hope to be doing later in life), but people with people with 3.6+ GPAs struggle with basic physics and calc because they are the memorize and repeat type student. Fields like engineering teach you a way of thinking that can be applied to any area, and in general GPAs remain relatively low but I'm sure no one would say they aren't intelligent.

OR Physics just isn't really interesting to us. I don't disagree with you on any other point.

 

[funshine]

You see this all the time around here with posts asking about taking Physics w/o calculus and what math courses to take. Those are 2 areas that involve understanding concepts and applying them (sounds like something we all hope to be doing later in life), but people with people with 3.6+ GPAs struggle with basic physics and calc because they are the memorize and repeat type student. Fields like engineering teach you a way of thinking that can be applied to any area, and in general GPAs remain relatively low but I'm sure no one would say they aren't intelligent.

it really depends on HOW the physics and calculus are taught and what kind of questions are on the exam. I took both courses at my Podunk state university and aced both even though I am the model "memorize and repeat" type student.

 

[e_phn]

i completely agree with everything that has been said. there are different types of intelligence, and we all have our strengths and weaknesses and yadda yadda yadda, but some people act like they OWN you because they have a higher GPA (and nothing more).

i mean, if you have a high GPA, then congratulations and more power to you, but don't see it as a reason to be a high-and-mighty jerk... haha

that's all i was saying.

I know exactly what you mean.
I meet a lot of people who are like that.

 

[happydays]

Blah blah blah. I'm smart but humble; I'm dumb but arrogant....blah blah.

You all are thinking way too much. Thinking=evil. Think as little as possible.

By the way, anyone who calls him/herself smart and humble is NOT humble.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Blah blah blah. I'm smart but humble; I'm dumb but arrogant....blah blah.

You all are thinking way too much. Thinking=evil. Think as little as possible.

By the way, anyone who says that they're smart and humble is NOT humble.

It's the Bumble Bee's season. Why be humble?

i love contradictions on this forum because you get to find out who's gonna make a superficial physician

 

[OctoDoc]

By the way, anyone who says that they're smart and humble is NOT humble.

Uhhh.....never mind.

Just kidding. I agree with you!

 

[happydays]

Uhhh.....never mind.

Just kidding. I agree with you!

Ok, grammar error. It's "anyone who says he/she is humble is not humble."

 

[MedicineNutt]

Ok, grammar error. It's "anyone who says he/she is humble is not humble."

who cares about grammar? is it a fad nowadays? i totally hate grammar class till the day i die...i think i almost failed spelling/grammar class back in highschool! honestly, what a waste of time

 

[happydays]

who cares about grammar? is it a fad nowadays? i totally hate grammar class till the day i die...i think i almost failed spelling/grammar class back in highschool! honestly, what a waste of time

👍
I care about grammar (most of the time), since I used to suck at it big time. Now I only suck at it occasionally.

I should edit that sentence again: Anyone who calls him/herself smart and humble is not humble.

This is why I shouldn't write a book.

 

[MedicineNutt]

👍
I care about grammar (most of the time), since I used to suck at it big time. Now I only suck at it occasionally.

yeah i try to care, but im a BIG ****** !!!

 

[Rafa]

absolute BS. I don't know what type of class tests you are taking but if you are taking challenging courses (pchem, eng), teachers always get their nice bell curve. There are some people who can figure the stuff on the tests and there are others that never will no matter how much they study.

While I'll be the first the say that medium GPA people aren't necessarily less intelligent than 4.0'ers, the case is usually overstated, and the pendulum has swung too far. Go get a 3.9+ in engineering and then you will have some credence. Most of such people that i've met are very intelligent and work their ass off.

Please get a friend to drive you home. You sound like you've had a little too much WHIIIIINE!

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Please get a friend to drive you home. You sound like you've had a little too much WHIIIIINE!

That was beyond cheesy! Nothing like some cheese with that whine