Anyone actually enjoy residency?

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Maskchamp

Maskchamp

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Hi everyone,

Did anyone actually enjoy their residency and had a great experience?
We hear all the time how miserable it is, no sleep, too much work, not treated well, yelled at, etc etc. But is it really as bad as people say it is and make it out to be?

Anyone have a great experience and enjoyed their years?

Starting anesthesia/ICU double specialty program next month and pretty terrified.
Thanks.
 
I actually really enjoyed residency. Not every second of it obviously - it definitely has its stresses and challenges and sleepless nights. But in general I loved getting to learn and grow and see myself get better and better.

I don’t think I was ever yelled at or abused. I definitely worked hard and had some insanely long hours. We were a “home call” program but calls were super busy and we had no post call day. Thankfully call was pretty infrequent, and as you go through the years you become more senior and there is less suckage.

I also had good coresidents and a really strong program overall so I always felt supported. If someone was sick or someone had a life emergency happen, you had to act fast to pick up their call or other responsibilities because everyone else was volunteering at the same time. We all arrived early together, stayed late together - we shared the suckage.

We were also very open with our struggles and when we screwed up. Helped keep that whole imposter syndrome at bay when you know all your friends are struggling with the same things you are. This continues even now when we text/call each other and share both the good and the bad.

Overall yes there are parts of residency that suck. But there can be parts that are really great. So much depends on choosing the right program and getting good co residents. Beyond that it’s what you decide to focus on: you can wallow in the suckage or you can focus on what you’re learning, the patients you’re helping, and the friendships you’re building.

That said, it wasn’t nearly as good as fellowship or being an attending. For me it was:

Fellowship>attendinghood>residency>med school

If I could get paid an attending salary to be a permanent fellow where I trained, I would jump at that in a heartbeat.
 
operaman said:
I actually really enjoyed residency. Not every second of it obviously - it definitely has its stresses and challenges and sleepless nights. But in general I loved getting to learn and grow and see myself get better and better.

I don’t think I was ever yelled at or abused. I definitely worked hard and had some insanely long hours. We were a “home call” program but calls were super busy and we had no post call day. Thankfully call was pretty infrequent, and as you go through the years you become more senior and there is less suckage.

I also had good coresidents and a really strong program overall so I always felt supported. If someone was sick or someone had a life emergency happen, you had to act fast to pick up their call or other responsibilities because everyone else was volunteering at the same time. We all arrived early together, stayed late together - we shared the suckage.

We were also very open with our struggles and when we screwed up. Helped keep that whole imposter syndrome at bay when you know all your friends are struggling with the same things you are. This continues even now when we text/call each other and share both the good and the bad.

Overall yes there are parts of residency that suck. But there can be parts that are really great. So much depends on choosing the right program and getting good co residents. Beyond that it’s what you decide to focus on: you can wallow in the suckage or you can focus on what you’re learning, the patients you’re helping, and the friendships you’re building.

That said, it wasn’t nearly as good as fellowship or being an attending. For me it was:

Fellowship>attendinghood>residency>med school

If I could get paid an attending salary to be a permanent fellow where I trained, I would jump at that in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
What specialty are you in if you don't mind me asking.
 
I liked residency. Pgy1 was long days and lots of work. We had a good group of co residents who looked out for each other. You picked up admissionsn when you were on a light service as you knew someone would help you when you were on a busy service. Fit is a big deal. Residency was a very busy service, with strict but supportive attending and fellows. Lots of high acuity cases. Classmates at both programs were great. Sure things sucked at times, but the suckage was finite. Being an attending was actually harder but more rewarding.
 
Chill TY then rads. Yes. The drawback is knowing PP attending life will be harder lol.
 
No, literally no one enjoys residency, it is the worst ever /s.

Take some time off the internet bud. A lot of people come online just to complain, just like with medical school.
 
I am 3 months into residency in psychiatry. I work 5.25 days per week on average. Have averaged somewhere around 45-50 hours per week with a bimodal distribution around 55-60 and 40 hours depending on the rotation. People in my residency aren't stressed and they are generally happy. The PD has not been willing to make changes based on early feedback and there are definitely some deficiencies in the program but overall I am learning a lot, will be a competent psychiatrist based on what I see among the PGY4s, and have a very balanced life so far. This is typically considered the hardest year. I I am happy. I feel for colleagues in other programs at my institution who frequently express they want to go home and leave the hospital because they are sick of work. I know people are interested in drastically different topics/populations in medicine but there is still an underlying current of "I work super hard therefore I am badass" that ultimately tricks young people into lifestyles they may not enjoy in the future, once they have an opportunity to expand their own family commitments/hobbies/crippling medical issues.
 
Residency is one of those things upon which you look more fondly later, despite sucking a lot at the time.

Like many things, residency has its ups and downs. When you’re going through it, you tend to focus on the irritating nonsense, the stupid hospital procedures, the stressful aspects, and the heavy demands on your time. Once you graduate, though, you’ll think back on your relationships with your coresidents, the camaraderie, and the people who taught you and helped you become the doctor you are.

At least this was my experience (psychiatry).
 
Shoot, residency wasn’t bad. It was hard work, late nights, very little ultimate control/autonomy to your life. Yeah. I prefer to be an attending. I really enjoyed taking care of people and learning to be a doctor. I liked all my batch mates (more than I like my present co-workers to be honest). Probably three months sucked donkey balls out of three years.
 
NITRAS said:
Shoot, residency wasn’t bad. It was hard work, late nights, very little ultimate control/autonomy to your life. Yeah. I prefer to be an attending. I really enjoyed taking care of people and learning to be a doctor. I liked all my batch mates (more than I like my present co-workers to be honest). Probably three months sucked donkey balls out of three years.
Click to expand...

“Residency wasn’t bad”
- hard work
- late nights
- little control over life

Yea that doesn’t sound bad at all after 4 soul sucking years in med school [emoji52]🫠
 
I have enjoyed it so far--3 months into intern year as IM resident.
 
I’m a 3rd year cards fellow now. Intern year was tough. First year of fellowship was tough. Out of 10 years of medical training this year is by far the best and honestly one of the best years of my life so far period. Medical training is hard for everyone, just keep going.
 
Zendo said:
Do you see yourself ever considering academics or the VA to avoid the PP grind?
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Yeah, the main issue is location and dealing with the stupidity of academic medical centers. There aren't many potential VA/academic employers in the specific locations I want to live long term aside from PP groups. I would certainly consider it. Would also consider doing tele if my group went to **** but didn't want to move my family.

It was something I considered before pursuing rads. There are outlets that can fix different problems but rarely can they fix all of them (like psych for example). Overall, it is pretty good compared to other specialties with regards to options to not move your family if that's important.
Dantes said:
Attending life is worse than residency in rads?
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For people at academic programs the biggest hurdle is independent call which is objectively hard as hell. Your regular 8-5 life is certainly easier than the attendings' lives and they generally take some call and see way more cases during their regular shifts. Obviously vacation and money make up for it.
 
Maskchamp said:
Hi everyone,

Did anyone actually enjoy their residency and had a great experience?
We hear all the time how miserable it is, no sleep, too much work, not treated well, yelled at, etc etc. But is it really as bad as people say it is and make it out to be?

Anyone have a great experience and enjoyed their years?

Starting anesthesia/ICU double specialty program next month and pretty terrified.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Intern year sucked. CA1-3 have been great not a fan of cardiac or the ICU but overall I’ve loved it
 
At this point I'm convinced that SDN is another version of earth in the metaverse, because I've never seen so many people say they liked (and particularly, "loved") residency.

I am friends with tons of residents in different specialties and at different programs, and a few recently graduated attendings....and while some didn't hate it (most did), none actually liked it. Maybe everybody I know went to a brutal program haha.
 
Zendo said:
Do you see yourself ever considering academics or the VA to avoid the PP grind?
Click to expand...
Is academia really less of a grind? Maybe rads is different, but every academic attending I know is swamped and emotionally exhausted unless/until they get enough accolades that they can rest on their laurels and let success beget more success. Finish up a day in the clinic and then go work on a grant. Finish a day in the OR and then go fulfill some administrative responsibilities. Finish a day writing a grant and a manuscript and then go catch up on notes/review for upcoming cases. Then there's the emotionally exhausting bit. Excessive quantification of non-comparable achievements (e.g., number of manuscripts, quality of manuscripts, etc...). Taking credit for things you didn't actually do and stringing along trainees (de facto requirement to become a name in academia). Sucking up to the right people. Making the right collaborations. Spinning boring data into something interesting so you can keep renewing your grants.

Unless you approach academia as a 95% clinical job with some teaching/admin responsibilities, and you're cool staying at "Instructor of Medicine" until you retire, it definitely looks like a grind.
 
ChordaEpiphany said:
Is academia really less of a grind? Maybe rads is different, but every academic attending I know is swamped and emotionally exhausted unless/until they get enough accolades that they can rest on their laurels and let success beget more success. Finish up a day in the clinic and then go work on a grant. Finish a day in the OR and then go fulfill some administrative responsibilities. Finish a day writing a grant and a manuscript and then go catch up on notes/review for upcoming cases. Then there's the emotionally exhausting bit. Excessive quantification of non-comparable achievements (e.g., number of manuscripts, quality of manuscripts, etc...). Taking credit for things you didn't actually do and stringing along trainees (de facto requirement to become a name in academia). Sucking up to the right people. Making the right collaborations. Spinning boring data into something interesting so you can keep renewing your grants.

Unless you approach academia as a 95% clinical job with some teaching/admin responsibilities, and you're cool staying at "Instructor of Medicine" until you retire, it definitely looks like a grind.
Click to expand...
Yep, it's all a grind, just different flavors. As you pointed out academia has lots of time drains. Teaching and giving presentations is another. Attending scientific meetings and presenting is another. Clinical work is just through put. Whether gas, and running 3 rooms with35 cases or sitting at your desk and dictating 150 cases as a radiologist. It's a grind. I think clinical assistant professor might be the best of both worlds. Lesser research and teaching commitment plus the challenge of being involved with complex cases.
 
I'mInDer! said:
At this point I'm convinced that SDN is another version of earth in the metaverse, because I've never seen so many people say they liked (and particularly, "loved") residency.

I am friends with tons of residents in different specialties and at different programs, and a few recently graduated attendings....and while some didn't hate it (most did), none actually liked it. Maybe everybody I know went to a brutal program haha.
Click to expand...

It's just easy to look on things with rose colored glasses, I think. I catch myself all the time wishing I could be a resident so I had my residency family to hang out with, to do cool things like whack out half a dudes face without liability, go to robust didactics, etc. But my brain ignores the brutal personal strain part.
 
I'mInDer! said:
At this point I'm convinced that SDN is another version of earth in the metaverse, because I've never seen so many people say they liked (and particularly, "loved") residency.

I am friends with tons of residents in different specialties and at different programs, and a few recently graduated attendings....and while some didn't hate it (most did), none actually liked it. Maybe everybody I know went to a brutal program haha.
Click to expand...
Many people suffers from selective amnesia once they are a few years out of residency.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Yep, it's all a grind, just different flavors. As you pointed out academia has lots of time drains. Teaching and giving presentations is another. Attending scientific meetings and presenting is another. Clinical work is just through put. Whether gas, and running 3 rooms with35 cases or sitting at your desk and dictating 150 cases as a radiologist. It's a grind. I think clinical assistant professor might be the best of both worlds. Lesser research and teaching commitment plus the challenge of being involved with complex cases.
Click to expand...
If you just love clinical medicine, perennial Assistant Prof at a mid-tier academic center seems like the dream. Higher pay than top tier and a good mix of bread and butter vs. complex cases. Pump out a case report and a retrospective study once a year, teach residents (who act as a barrier between you and a terrible call schedule), and collect pay only slightly lower than community employed docs. I've seen Assistant Profs who publish 1 paper every 4-5 years.

If you really don't want to handle anything except medicine, that's the gig.
 
Maskchamp said:
Hi everyone,

Did anyone actually enjoy their residency and had a great experience?
We hear all the time how miserable it is, no sleep, too much work, not treated well, yelled at, etc etc. But is it really as bad as people say it is and make it out to be?

Anyone have a great experience and enjoyed their years?

Starting anesthesia/ICU double specialty program next month and pretty terrified.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I went through general surgery residency before plastic surgery and, in retrospect, I wouldn't have done it any other way. I loved (and still love) surgery. In my intern year, the first six weeks I was so tired I thought I was going to die. During the second 6 weeks, I was pretty sure I would die (I was 40 years old as a PGY-1). At that time, work hour restrictions weren't a thing until my chief year. And when we went to a night float system, we were all really unhappy that we wouldn't be able to operate on the patients that came in the night before because we had to go home.

I remember a conversation I had with the department chair one day during my first year. I was going up and down the stairs between floors taking care of the scut work (which is actually how you learn to care for patients) and almost literally ran into Dr. Gupta. He asked how things were going. After thinking about it for maybe a second or two, I answered that I felt like I was being allowed to participate as opposed to having to be there. And I still feel the same way 22 years later.

Residency was hard. Surgery is hard. Caring for people can test the limits of your compassion. And it's both the joyous times and the miserable times that made my residency among the best experiences of my life.

--Moravian
 
I just finished residency so the protective memory loss hasn't kicked in yet. I loved residency (despite the long hours and 28 hour ICU call). But my residency also kicked ass and had great leadership and co-residents.
 
In my opinion, residency is better described as rewarding as opposed to enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I did have a lot of enjoyable experiences in residency, but there were at least as many times of hardship. And through that hardship, most residents undergo significant professional and personal growth. Looking back on July 1st of intern year from the perspective gained on graduation day is immensely satisfying, and a source of great pride. This is of course partly dependent of having supportive faculty and co-residents. If your support within the program is poor, getting through the hard times is, well, harder.

But yeah, overall residency is good, even if it's not because you're always having a good time.
 
Not sure if I have a case of very selective memory, but overall I enjoyed residency. I had a great group of co-residents, which certainly helped. There were definitely times it was very stressful, but I think having realistic expectations going in played a large role in how I handled it, I was going into OB/GYN after all.
 
I’m a surgery intern. Residency is going fine so far. I get to operate a decent amount. I’m doing residency in the same city I went to med school and I have a decent social network. I never exceed 80 hours. I have a cat who keeps me very happy. So far everything is better than I expected. I’m exhausted all the time and I wish I worked less, but I’m happy for the most part. Definitely happier than I was in med school.
 
Maskchamp said:
Hi everyone,

Did anyone actually enjoy their residency and had a great experience?
We hear all the time how miserable it is, no sleep, too much work, not treated well, yelled at, etc etc. But is it really as bad as people say it is and make it out to be?

Anyone have a great experience and enjoyed their years?

Starting anesthesia/ICU double specialty program next month and pretty terrified.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I completed my residency years ago before there was any restrictions on hours. We accepted three residents a year and when one was on vacation we would be in house from Friday morning till Monday afternoon. Was that great? No. Reflecting I learned a lot and it matured me. As far as the relationships formed they could not be more intense; from both a positive and negative aspect.
I’m glad currently that there are restrictions on hours, however as a Program Director I always tried to instill the development of respect and trust in my Residents that I enjoyed. It’s always rewarding at meetings when we see each other that the camaraderie we established years ago is still there.
To quote Kennedy when he gave his speech about going to the moon, We do these things not because they’re easy but because they are hard…. I’ve never been bored in my professional career because I’ve always been challenged.
If you want a challenging career then you’re in the right place. The landscape is always changing of that you can be sure. It is both internal and external, but it will never be static.
I think you need to look at the challenge. Hillary’s challenge on Everest was, “because it’s there”.
 
Does anyone agree that you could have spent less time in the hospital, more time with loved ones or doing hobbies (or doing absolutely nothing if that's what you want) and still learned enough to treat patients safely?
 
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Did a general surgery internship before diagnostic radiology fellowship. Had a blast in both. My co-interns are still some of my best friends to hang out with, and even though I moved across the country I make it a point to meet up with them whenever in town. Same goes with my radiology residency buds.

Residency is what you make of it. The attitude you take in to work determines your experiences at the end of the day. You can keep thinking of the greener grass a few years down the road, but just remember that wherever you go, you take yourself with you.
 
bGMx said:
Does anyone agree that you could have spent less time in the hospital, more time with loved ones or doing hobbies (or doing absolutely nothing if that's what you want) and still learned enough to treat patients safely?
Click to expand...
I can only speak to EM, (specifically EM in the region I trained) but I think the amount of hours I worked was appropriate. It's hard to speculate on what could have been, but I think fewer hours would've been questionable. I trained at a 3-year program where we generally had 36 to 50 hours of time physically in the ED each week. Hours were affected by shift number that week and how badly the department was on fire on any particular day. As a new EM attending, I feel well prepared with that amount of patient time. That said, I think the average weekly hours could've been bumped up by 4 to 8 without feeling excessive. You really need as much patient exposure in residency as possible. It's not possible to master every minute aspect of your specialty during residency, so you wanna get as close to total mastery as possible while you're still protected by your resident status. This is a major justification for residents' long hours. Obviously the hospital has an express interest in the cheap labor as well, and that definitely contributes. There of course is a balance that needs to be maintained, and I am fully aware that there are places out there that abuse their residents in this regard.

TL;DR - EM residency I think is generally appropriate hours-wise. Not sure how my colleagues in other specialties feel.
 
bGMx said:
Does anyone agree that you could have spent less time in the hospital, more time with loved ones or doing hobbies (or doing absolutely nothing if that's what you want) and still learned enough to treat patients safely?
Click to expand...

I see enough people struggling post-residency with the basics of medicine that it would be hard for me to argue that residency training should be cut down further. This is not me advocating for a return to unrestricted work schedules, but ultimately, I think at some point we just have to accept that certain things in life will just suck and that the solution is not to pad it or water it down further for the sake of "comfort." Growth comes through being uncomfortable and being continually challenged. Note that I didn't say abusive; I said uncomfortable, though to a certain extent you might not be able to avoid some level of abuse, either (not from faculty or colleagues).
 
bGMx said:
Does anyone agree that you could have spent less time in the hospital, more time with loved ones or doing hobbies (or doing absolutely nothing if that's what you want) and still learned enough to treat patients safely?
Click to expand...
Well, residents in other countries work considerably fewer hours --- and as far as I can tell, the healthcare that's provided isn't any worse looking at outcomes.
 
snooper said:
Well, residents in other countries work considerably fewer hours --- and as far as I can tell, the healthcare that's provided isn't any worse looking at outcomes.
Click to expand...

Residents in other countries work considerably fewer hours but that's because their training is prolonged over a longer period of time because it is a "competency based model" of training and not a "time based" model the way the U.S. is structured where no matter how good or weak you are you graduate at the same time as everyone else your year.
 
bGMx said:
Does anyone agree that you could have spent less time in the hospital, more time with loved ones or doing hobbies (or doing absolutely nothing if that's what you want) and still learned enough to treat patients safely?
Click to expand...
We worked hard. My wife was a med student when I was a resident. Never felt like we missed out on time together. We lived across the street from the hospital, so no time lost with a commute. Didn't have children till later so there was no sense of missing out on quality time. Face it. As a resident, you want to spend as much time as possible learning on someone else's malpractice insurance policy. You will be learning on your own soon enough.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
We worked hard. My wife was a med student when I was a resident. Never felt like we missed out on time together. We lived across the street from the hospital, so no time lost with a commute. Didn't have children till later so there was no sense of missing out on quality time. Face it. As a resident, you want to spend as much time as possible learning on someone else's malpractice insurance policy. You will be learning on your own soon enough.
Click to expand...
What about people with family and friends outside of medicine, a desire to have kids early, and elderly parent(s)?
 
I enjoyed my residency experience much more than medical school (did both at Loyola SOM near Chicago). And I was in the middle third performance-wise compared to my colleagues in med school so I did fairly well.

I graduated anesthesiology residency in 2017 after doing a one year preliminary year in general surgery. The intern year taught me a lot but was grueling. I still enjoyed it. Doing things for me was much more enjoyable than reading about topics I wasn't interested in -- even if I was exhausted. The way my rotations came out, I ended up doing over 3.5 months of nights alone out of 11 work months as an intern.

Anesthesiology was much better than general surgery internship. One, the hours were better. Two, I loved what I was learning and doing. Even call was enjoyable to me. And my program was known as a "work horse program" around Chicago. Looking back, I know that I got great clinical training and felt prepared for pretty much whatever the world could throw at me. I appreciated the long hours because it made me a better doctor and clinician.

It all depends on your mindset and whether or not you like what you're doing.
 
bGMx said:
What about people with family and friends outside of medicine, a desire to have kids early, and elderly parent(s)?
Click to expand...

It's all about your expectations going into medicine; there isn't really much more to say. You will learn going into medicine that the expectations of the job don't really care or compromise for what you want in life, so it's ultimately up to you to decide what is acceptable to you and what isn't, but medicine isn't really one of those fields that will bend perfectly (if at all) to your personal needs and/or wants.
 
bGMx said:
What about people with family and friends outside of medicine, a desire to have kids early, and elderly parent(s)?
Click to expand...

People in medicine think it’s ok for you to have to sacrifice everything else and every other part of your life just to be a doctor. Your desires for a family or a healthy work life balance is irrelevant after you’ve spent over half your life in education just to even get to residency. Who cares if a resident is a dead beat parent, wife/husband, or absent family member as long as the hospital meets their bottom line and they can suck every waking hour you have out of you in the name of “training”.
 
bGMx said:
What about people with family and friends outside of medicine, a desire to have kids early, and elderly parent(s)?
Click to expand...
You can probably pick one of those three while being a resident. My wife and I had our first kid when I was an intern and our second a year and a half later. Was it easy? Absolutely not, and many a stressful day was had. But it is doable, and my wife and I are good parents at that. But there was really no time for friends outside of church. We saw people at our home a couple times a month. Neither of us have dependent parents, but if we did there would be neither the time nor the finances for us to help significantly. You gotta choose. Life is full of forks in the road. One of the worst things to enter the zeitgeist of the West is the idea that you can have it all.

For what it's worth, things can get a lot better after training. In most specialties, you can have a good amount of influence on your hours. You just might need to be willing to compromise on pay and location.
 
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DarkBluMage said:
People in medicine think it’s ok for you to have to sacrifice everything else and every other part of your life just to be a doctor. Your desires for a family or a healthy work life balance is irrelevant after you’ve spent over half your life in education just to even get to residency. Who cares if a resident is a dead beat parent, wife/husband, or absent family member as long as the hospital meets their bottom line and they can suck every waking hour you have out of you in the name of “training”.
Click to expand...
Medicine used to be a calling. If one is looking for work/life balance, medicine just might not be the place to find it. People don't get sick from 9 to 5. Sick people need their doctor when they are sick. Doctors families have sacrificed for the needs of the patient for centuries. Now, people want to consider it a job. We can thank corporate medicine and their HR, with some help from the Govt, for turning a noble profession into a job. Medicine is not for everybody, like football. Lots of strong, fast players are not very good at it or just don't like it. It takes more than being smart and wanting to help people. You have to actually do it, which may not be for everybody.
 
I enjoyed residency (FM). But I think I was insanely lucky because my program was filled with people who were passionate about teaching and actually cared about our education. It was a large, rural, unopposed program. My co-residents were also pretty great (mostly). Going through the grind with helpful, supportive people really makes all the difference.

Looking back, yeah, those 80 hour weeks and 27 hour shifts were rough sometimes. Had I chosen a different career path I could have been maybe going out and having more fun for those 3 long years (not to mention the 4 years of med school before it). But I loved what I was doing and I do think to be a good physician you need to put in a lot of hours. There is just so much volume and variability and somewhat of a steep learning curve - not just medically, but there is an art to having difficult discussions and inspiring real change in people. Do we need to be doing 27 hour shifts? Hell no. They need to get rid of that and focus on quality over quantity (some days I swear I was just holding up a wall).

Attending life for me is even better. More time, more money and most importantly, complete autonomy. The downside is there's a lot more responsibility.
 
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