Anyone apply to optometry, Medical School,or Physical Therapy School?

[lcfan4ever]

Anyone consider applying to any of these as well as Pharm. I have my heart set on Pharm since I've volunteered, but if i don't get in, anyone of these professions are great as well.

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[LBS615]

Being a PT is not a fun job- i worked in a hospital for almost three years- the PT's would basically walk the old patients up and down the halls, help the nurses get them out of bed, take them to the bathroom- or get urinated or defecated on while walking them up and down the halls. Yes PT is very much needed, but is a very tough and dirty job (ie debrided patient's wounds in the whirlpool- sounds so yummy!). No offense to any PT's out there- it is just to hands on and too physical- if I was going to touch a patient that much I would rather become a MD or a PA.

Anyone consider applying to any of these as well as Pharm. I have my heart set on Pharm since I've volunteered, but if i don't get in, anyone of these professions are great as well.

 

[lcfan4ever]

LBS615,
Are u sure it wasn't a PT assistant or someone like that?

Oh well I'd also proly would not want to be a PT, optometry seems like a better career if Pharm doesnt work out.

 

[Portman]

optometry seems kind of 😴 🙂

 

[bananaface]

My aunt does PT and enjoys it. The people who do the crappy jobs are indeed assistants. The PT helps develop plans for physical rehabilitation for patients, teach exercises, administer treatments and that sort of thing. There are some hands-on activities, but not the junk that assistants get stuck with. I think PT is still a bachelor's degree, isn't it?

 

[LBS615]

No- definetly not the assistants- I have quite a few friends who are PT's- like i said I worked as a clinical dietitian in a hospital for three years! I know one PT who was helping a patient to the bathroom and the patient coded and died. Yes they do the whirlpool- where they clean out patien'ts wounds. Or they have to try to do exercises with patient's who are comatose. I know what I am talking about here. I know quite a bit about hopsital systems. I was part of the discharge planning team- with the MD's, the case manager, and the PT's. One of my best friend's is an OT, her boyfriend a PT, as well as all of his friends, and like i said some of my friends. i have multiple friends who are MD's (who actually say pharmacy school is a smarter choice). I have friend's who are dentists, vets, and my boyfriend is a lawyer. Not to throw the list at all of you. But..like I have said I have witnessed every aspect of hospital care and all of the jobs in it, so I think I have the ability to speak on it. And by the way- every job has crappy aspects to it.

My aunt does PT and enjoys it. The people who do the crappy jobs are indeed assistants. The PT helps develop plans for physical rehabilitation for patients, teach exercises, administer treatments and that sort of thing. There are some hands-on activities, but not the junk that assistants get stuck with. I think PT is still a bachelor's degree, isn't it?

 

[nonyagirl]

My aunt does PT and enjoys it. The people who do the crappy jobs are indeed assistants. The PT helps develop plans for physical rehabilitation for patients, teach exercises, administer treatments and that sort of thing. There are some hands-on activities, but not the junk that assistants get stuck with. I think PT is still a bachelor's degree, isn't it?

Well, PT can be a bachelor's at some places... but I know in U Wa, it's only offered as a graduate degree... and vEry competitive to enter 0_o OT as well. I heard PT's have to be really energetic and strong enough (to support patients, etc). OT would be cool to enter (get to interact with ppl! and less physically stressful than PT)... but then, I know a pharmacist who used to do OT work... and she enjoys being a pharmacist more

 

[unoriginal]

Anyone consider applying to any of these as well as Pharm. I have my heart set on Pharm since I've volunteered, but if i don't get in, anyone of these professions are great as well.

Just be advised that if you can't get into pharm, you will be hard-pressed to get into the others. It is about the least competitive, except perhaps PT school.

 

[lcfan4ever]

Just be advised that if you can't get into pharm, you will be hard-pressed to get into the others. It is about the least competitive, except perhaps PT school.

Definitly agree about Medical School. But perhaps not Optometry. IN Cali, we don't count PCAT, but there is an exam OAT exam for Optom. There are two schools there, Souther Optometry School (NOT USC) and UC Berkeley. Last year the average GPA were 3.3 and 3.5 respectively. Thats lower than proly all Pharm Schools in Cali.

 

[unoriginal]

Definitly agree about Medical School. But perhaps not Optometry. IN Cali, we don't count PCAT, but there is an exam OAT exam for Optom. There are two schools there, Souther Optometry School (NOT USC) and UC Berkeley. Last year the average GPA were 3.3 and 3.5 respectively. Thats lower than proly all Pharm Schools in Cali.

yeah, someone told me something similar about the optometry school here in MI. I had heard that the pharm college at the same school was becoming more competitive, even though the op school only takes 30-40 people per year. I wasn't sure if this was happening nationwide...

 

[DownonthePharm]

PT school is either now, or soon becoming a PhD program here.

 

[Glycerin]

I think PT is still a bachelor's degree, isn't it?

Shenandoah offers the DPT, and I know there are many master's programs also, so no.

 

[unoriginal]

Shenandoah offers the DPT, and I know there are many master's programs also, so no.

By the way, the quote you have in your sig is not by mark twain. It is from the bible- Proverbs 17:28

 

[Glycerin]

By the way, the quote you have in your sig is not by mark twain. It is from the bible- Proverbs 17:28

That may be, but Mark Twain is also quoted for saying this. You can find this on any quotes website.

 

[dancindr]

i have multiple friends who are MD's (who actually say pharmacy school is a smarter choice).

LOL, pharmacy school IS a smarter choice if you want a good, stable job with a good income and a good lifestyle. But, most medical students/MDs would not be happy going that route and vice versa. Pharm and med are very different aspects of health care (as well as others the OP mentioned) so I think its best to find out which is really for you and go all out for that. As for which is easier to get into, it depends on where you apply, what kind of stats you have, and what the particular adcoms are looking for. MD programs usually have more strenuous app process, but there are more of them so its not always more selective. Also, different kinds of students apply to these different programs so its hard to directly compare.

 

[Monarch]

I used to be a gung ho premed, but decided to teach for a while first. Then I chose pharmacy instead. I am still in the application process but I am really happy with my choice. It would probably be easier for me at this point to apply to med schools because I already have the prereqs and a good MCAT score that is still current (i think), but I decided to go with pharmacy.

I have a close relative who is a dental student. She loves it very much, but it seems too inflexible for me in terms of career options. Also, I am not big on unhealthy mouths, inflicting pain, etc.

I thought about optometry, but I couldn't picture myself saying "#1 or #2? #1 or #2?" ad nauseum. I also thought about physical therapy, but decided on pharmacy because I enjoy biochem more than anatomy, and I want to do something with a very broad range of possibilities in career paths.

 

[unoriginal]

LOL, pharmacy school IS a smarter choice if you want a good, stable job with a good income and a good lifestyle. But, most medical students/MDs would not be happy going that route and vice versa. Pharm and med are very different aspects of health care (as well as others the OP mentioned) so I think its best to find out which is really for you and go all out for that. As for which is easier to get into, it depends on where you apply, what kind of stats you have, and what the particular adcoms are looking for. MD programs usually have more strenuous app process, but there are more of them so its not always more selective. Also, different kinds of students apply to these different programs so its hard to directly compare.

well, i started out as pharm and had many friends who were pharm and pharm was much easier. even in my med school class there are a few pharmacists. pharm is a much easier to get into in my state (at least at 2 of the 3 schools- i know for a fact). According to the pharmacists in my class, it has been a lot harder/more material than pharm school. Med schools require 2 different applications (primary & secondary: 2 sets of essays) and interview. Not to mention you have to have stellar MCATs and GPAs, unless you can get in through affirmative action.

As for pharmacy being a better choice (for reasons listed)... i originally thought this and it is why i originally chose pharmacy. Then I worked as a tech (ZZZZzzzzz).... However, for a couple extra years of training you can make about double to triple the money has a physician (200-300k/year). There are at least a half dozen specialities that are like this and the work week is only 40-50 hours/week (radiology, opthalmology, anestisiology, dermatology, emergency medicine, heme-onc, cardiology... about anything except surgery). Basically, if you want to work good hours, then you find a job (i.e. group practice) that allows this.

So let's say you work as a pharmacist making a generous 90k after 8 years of schooling. With an MD degree you can start making 250k after 4 yrs undergradl, 4 year med school, 4 years residency (this varies ~10-12 yrs training). So the pharmacist will make 360k in those 4 years while the MD is still in school. The MD will have surpassed the income of the pharmacist after only 3 years of work. Pharmacist net income for 7 years work: 630k, MD after 3 years: 750k. The difference only increases from here (20 years: pharm- 1.8million, MD- 5 million). And the work is much more variable and interesting than counting pills!

 

[unoriginal]

I used to be a gung ho premed, but decided to teach for a while first. Then I chose pharmacy instead. I am still in the application process but I am really happy with my choice. It would probably be easier for me at this point to apply to med schools because I already have the prereqs and a good MCAT score that is still current (i think), but I decided to go with pharmacy.

I have a close relative who is a dental student. She loves it very much, but it seems too inflexible for me in terms of career options. Also, I am not big on unhealthy mouths, inflicting pain, etc.

I thought about optometry, but I couldn't picture myself saying "#1 or #2? #1 or #2?" ad nauseum. I also thought about physical therapy, but decided on pharmacy because I enjoy biochem more than anatomy, and I want to do something with a very broad range of possibilities in career paths.

how is pharm more flexible than dentistry? As a pharmacist you are either counting pills all day in a small room in some retail store or you are working in a hospital for much less money, but less boring. With dentistry there are at least a half doezen specialities.

 

[Monarch]

Then I worked as a tech (ZZZZzzzzz)....

I am a tech, and I have never come close to falling asleep on the job.
(And, believe it or not, this is despite the fact that where I work, techs count the pills, not pharmacists. 😉 )

 

[Monarch]

how is pharm more flexible than dentistry? As a pharmacist you are either counting pills all day in a small room in some retail store or you are working in a hospital for much less money, but less boring. With dentistry there are at least a half doezen specialities.

By flexibility, I was referring to work schedules, types of employers, etc. It is my understanding that most dentists, no matter what their specialization, work full time in private or group practice settings during standard business hours, no?

And not that I think pharmacy is boring (I actually find it to be inherently interesting), but I don't think "boringness" is necessarily a bad thing in a job. I would rather have a stable job that allows me (financially, emotionally, time-wise) to entertain myself and enjoy life OUTSIDE of work, but that is just me. Otherwise, I think I would become a scuba instructor, or a restaurant critic, or a yogi, or something like that. It is my estimation that most work is either not exciting or just too darn exciting, and that is why they have to pay people to do it. If I were going to err on one side, I would err on the side of not exciting. Just my preference.

But I think lcfan4ever has the right attitude that these are all good professions, and many people are happy in all of them. I don't think that you can really go terribly wrong with any of them.

 

[dancindr]

Yes, I realize that pharmacists don't generally make as much as doctors, but they are certainly not hurting for money and they have a much easier lifestyle (aside from a couple of med specialties) and far fewer years of training, which is somewhat less intense. As for the good lifestyle med specialties, if you thought getting into med school was hard... Not to mention that many of the ones you listed are not considered to be particularly good lifestyle! Cardiologists and anesthesiologists generally work pretty insane hours, etc.
I know that many people consider several health professions before choosing one, but because they are all very different, most would not be happy in any other than the one they end up in (or end up in the wrong one and aren't very happy). Hence, pharmacists who decide they would rather be doctors and go to med school. While they are all great professions, they are not interchangeable so I think it is best to figure out what you want before applying (though this is sometimes hard or doesn't work out).

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Unoriginal, OBVIOUSLY Pharmacy is easier to get into than Med school. Are you in med school right now? There are a few facts you have to consider. First, pharmacists are rapidly approaching the wages of a primary care physician due to the shortage. Second, a medical doctor IS going to specialize in something as primary care physicians are a thing more of a past (hospital systems in the old times) and being handed over to PA and nurses.

When you work as a tech, you must have not paid attention to specific details. The pharmacists that are being trained today are "clincial pharmacists" and while they are no different than any other pharmacists, most of them won't RUN away from their patients and rather GO to them. Back then, the pharmacist was more of an industrial thing. That CHANGED after the federal government require that all medicaid/medicare patients be counseled, leading to cost effectiveness of offering counseling to all patients regardless of insurance. That is why the PharmD gave way.
Going back to speciality, you are underestimating the benefits of going into medical school. If you are in it for prestige and to help out people, you really cant argue with that. However in terms of money wise, first. . . a primary care physician even in the New York City area makes around 150 to 200k. This is the era of managed health care where costs are to be contained. Its not old times when doctors are required to stay up for 24 hours shift +. They are treated like any other employees (they cannot **** on nurses anymore). For specialities, we are talking about LIMITED spots and YEARS to study. In order to be a surgeon, you can expect to be in residency for 6 years?

You are also underestimating the cost of medical school. Cost is always a barrier and medical school costs an arm and a leg. You add that up and that is a lot of debt from undergraduate to out of med and earning 20 an hour in a residency spot.

If you are going to talk about wages, why not compare other specialites. . . .

 

[unoriginal]

Second, a medical doctor IS going to specialize in something as primary care physicians are a thing more of a past (hospital systems in the old times) and being handed over to PA and nurses.

Absolutely untrue. Although, it is becoming more popular to specialize (better pay & better hours), the primary care physician days are not numbered. Currently there is a great shortage. The laws governing PAs and nurses vary state to state, but regardless they are not able to practice without a physician supervising them. Second, most people would rather go to a real physician than a PA or nurse. In my area, our hospital just let go 50% of their PAs because of this reason. PAs and nurses have their place, but they certainly will never replace the primary care physician.

When you work as a tech, you must have not paid attention to specific details. The pharmacists that are being trained today are "clincial pharmacists" and while they are no different than any other pharmacists, most of them won't RUN away from their patients and rather GO to them. Back then, the pharmacist was more of an industrial thing. That CHANGED after the federal government require that all medicaid/medicare patients be counseled, leading to cost effectiveness of offering counseling to all patients regardless of insurance. That is why the PharmD gave way.
Going back to speciality, you are underestimating the benefits of going into medical school. If you are in it for prestige and to help out people, you really cant argue with that. However in terms of money wise, firs

I worked 50-60 hours a week at more than one pharmacy. I paid attention. Rarely did the pharmacist say more than a few sentences... "Take this with food" ..."take it befor bed" ... "don't drink alcohol". Not that this isn't very important, but the pharmacists only have to read this off the stickers that are printed out. If there is a drug interaction, the computer tells you, you call the physician, and you get it changed. Then you tell the customer when they arrive. I have a hard time calling this "patient counseling". It is a necessary system, but I did not want this monotony in my life. I wanted to have a more integral role.

a primary care physician even in the New York City area makes around 150 to 200k. This is the era of managed health care where costs are to be contained. Its not old times when doctors are required to stay up for 24 hours shift +. They are treated like any other employees (they cannot **** on nurses anymore). For specialities, we are talking about LIMITED spots and YEARS to study.

Yes, most of primary care docs are going to start between 150-200k. Some will start lower, some will start higher. This is still double the avg pharmacist. If they open their own practice, they will make significantly more. If you establish a few nursing homes, they will make considerably more. There are lots of ways to do this. I believe on average 60% of MD grads specialize. Yes, it's more comeptitive, but it's not impossible since most specialize.

In order to be a surgeon, you can expect to be in residency for 6 years?

Yes, this is true. They also make 500k-1million dollars and more. But, I did not mention them since most work way too much! There are a few that work little and make big bucks (plastics, urologists, etc). But, their lifestyle is not really comparable to a pharmacist's.

You are also underestimating the cost of medical school. Cost is always a barrier and medical school costs an arm and a leg. You add that up and that is a lot of debt from undergraduate to out of med and earning 20 an hour in a residency spot.

Pharmacy school costs money too, no? I was reading a thread in the pharmacy section last week that said most pharmacy grads were in debt like 80-100k. This is not much different than med school debt. Med school tuition isn't much higher than pharm school. It is okay to take a cut in pay when the rewards are so much higher. $20/hour in residency is worth it when you make $200/hour a few years later 🙂

 

[Requiem]

"
I worked 50-60 hours a week at more than one pharmacy. I paid attention. Rarely did the pharmacist say more than a few sentences... "Take this with food" ..."take it befor bed" ... "don't drink alcohol". Not that this isn't very important, but the pharmacists only have to read this off the stickers that are printed out. If there is a drug interaction, the computer tells you, you call the physician, and you get it changed. Then you tell the customer when they arrive. I have a hard time calling this "patient counseling". It is a necessary system, but I did not want this monotony in my life. I wanted to have a more integral role. "

Just wanted to quickly elaborate on this, as I don't even know if you are a pharmacy student yet you're dishing out all this advice to open ears.

In pharmacy school you are trained very well, and hard regarding patient counselling; it is, in essence what makes a pharmacist. A pharm tech can do all the counting, check computer, etc but a pharmacist is the one who has the knowledge base, articulates this to the consumer and develops/answers questions on their therapy plan. This procedure is known as patient counselling. If a patient is in for refill #20 on something they know the detail about, it may be a quick reminder of don't take with alcohol. But in general, everyday many different situations, and questions arise and the pharmacist is the one trained to address the patients concerns regarding this medication.

 

[aphistis]

By flexibility, I was referring to work schedules, types of employers, etc. It is my understanding that most dentists, no matter what their specialization, work full time in private or group practice settings during standard business hours, no?

Sure, that's what most of them do, but that's because it's what they *want* to do. A general dental practice can be as large or small, narrow or broad, relaxed or demanding, as you feel like making it. Heck, my dentist here runs her office with a partner, 7-7 Monday-Thursday. Each doc covers the office two days a week, and two on/five off weeks aren't too bad a lifestyle by my reckoning. 😉 On the other side, you have your academic OMS who can spend as much time at the hospital as any other surgeon. Dentistry is exceptionally flexible.

 

[Monarch]

Sure, that's what most of them do, but that's because it's what they *want* to do. A general dental practice can be as large or small, narrow or broad, relaxed or demanding, as you feel like making it. Heck, my dentist here runs her office with a partner, 7-7 Monday-Thursday. Each doc covers the office two days a week, and two on/five off weeks aren't too bad a lifestyle by my reckoning. 😉 On the other side, you have your academic OMS who can spend as much time at the hospital as any other surgeon. Dentistry is exceptionally flexible.

Hmm, interesting. Didn't know that.
I also wondered about how much the practice thing could tie you down in dentistry and other fields. For instance, starting a practice is harder than getting a job, and moving or quitting a practice is harder than quitting a job. It's like you have to make the job you want, not just find the job you want. But that sounds like a good lifestyle for most people. I just want the option of night and weekend shifts, and I never knew a dentist who does that. And I don't want to have to run my own business. I would rather go to work and then come home.
But I just realized that dentistry wasn't even mentioned in the title of this thread. Oops.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Unoriginal, this posting is a little bit more informed than your previous ones but you still have a long way to go.

Primary care physicians are not outnumbered but more of them are moving toward specialized care leaving this part of the pie to physician assistants and nurses. You talk about ways a physician can make more money, but is it not true that if this is the case, a physician can have 10 PA's under him and play a supervising role? The physician can confirm their diagnosises and paying attention to only important details? Most patients come in for their routine checkups anyway right? Wouldnt this mean a less need for physicians? When specializing collaspe due to an increase in shortage and decrease in pay (insurance companies cutting their costs), and physicians wanting back their pie, do you think the PA's and Nurses lobbying group (stronger than doctors), would let them do so?

Patients WILL prefer doctors and WILL prefer a specialized care doctor if they have their choice but unfortunely, MOST patients DO NOT make that choice. Their insurance companies do (including medicaid and medicare). Your hospital let 50 percent of their PAs go because of budgeting reasons probably. You can probably see a co relationship to nurses, other staff, and a LESS hiring of doctors. The economics is there and in the end, a hospital is still a business. Why hire a surgeon to do a physical when you can hire a PA and a nurse for a lot less.

Your working hours have little to do with attention. Can you tell me what kind of drug interactions are they? How severe? The patient can take medication A and wait for a few hours before taking medication b, yet both medications can interact with each other. What about doctor errors? Fraud? Do doctors walk around with a laptop while diagnosing patients? There is a lot more but you are still not getting patient counseling.

Patient counseling is REQUIRED by law for all patients by the pharmacy. Most patients may choose to waive that right but it is REQUIRED never the less. Federal government requires that a patient be counseled when a patient recieves any new medication for medicaid or medicare program (or else they cut funding to the state's program). This is where the need for clinical pharmacist appears. Hell, for all I care. . . I could care less about counseling. Less counseling means less work. I think if most pharmacists have a choice (Retail pharmacy), they can turn every patient down.

Its nice you want to be more involved with patient care, but the level of involvement in patient care is dependent on how much you care and not role you play. You can be a doctor and give little patient care at the same time. (Hospitals want more money and hence check more patients). A pharmacist can give a lot of patient care if the pharmacist chooses to.

Once again. . . , why compare wage of the two professions alone. You emphasize on money too much. If you care about money so much, why not go into the dental field? They earn as much if not more for dental care (cosmetic?) and also HAVE THE TIME to use the money too.

A pharmacist average wage is around 80k national with most places paying mid 90k starting. Lets look at the money after tax. . . Mid 90 k after a 40 percent reduction, leaving a pharmacist around high 50's to 60k. A doctor earning 120k national average with most pcp earning around 150k after taxes rake in about 90k. Of the 90k, the doctor will also have to pay a malpractice insurance that would range about 10k. 60k versus 80k. Clap clap and you have to go through four years of medical school and 4 to 8 years of residency. Here is a piece of advice for you. . . go dental. In terms of specialization, the tax bracket is around 50 percent so say you earn 500k. 250k after taxes plus malpractice insurance. . . yes you do come out earning more but hey. . . nobody is DEBATING that doctors get paid more than pharmacists. 🙄

There are also pharmacists that stumble and discover viagra and make more than 100 million dollars but I wont mention them since you wont mention the doctors that make 500k to 1 million more. (laughs as if they are common. I would rather have three doctors than one unless that doctor brings in a few millions dollar a year to my hospital because of his RESEARCH and PUBLICATIOn).

Compare our pharmacy school 4 years undergraduate/2 years post graduate with average cost ranging from 10 to 30/40kish with most of the years covered by financial aid versus medical school that can go upwards to around 100k a year with med school not being covered. Yeah. . . what is your point?

If you read something, be sure to let me take a look at it. Pharmacy debt should be an average of 40k per person. If the person signs on with a retail company, he can be sure to reduce that debt to around 20k without doing anything.

 

[bananaface]

Most of us will be in the 25% tax bracket, won't we? 😕

 

[ndearwater]

Pharmacy debt is 40k per person? Maybe per year! Tuition alone is from 7k to 30k yearly depending on state vs private school and location. Then there is rent and living expenses. Plus books 🙂
I'm not stressing on the fact that I'll probably have over 100k in debt after pharmacy school but I'm mentally preparing for it! 🙂

 

[Envision]

Hmm, interesting. Didn't know that.
I also wondered about how much the practice thing could tie you down in dentistry and other fields. For instance, starting a practice is harder than getting a job, and moving or quitting a practice is harder than quitting a job. It's like you have to make the job you want, not just find the job you want. But that sounds like a good lifestyle for most people. I just want the option of night and weekend shifts, and I never knew a dentist who does that. And I don't want to have to run my own business. I would rather go to work and then come home.
But I just realized that dentistry wasn't even mentioned in the title of this thread. Oops.

Dear Monarch,

reason being you won't see a dentist having night shifts is probably due to the fact that no patient would want to come in at 2 am for an extraction! hehe. buying medication isnt quite as invasive.

 

[unoriginal]

What is your native language? Your english is pretty poor. It didn't bother me at first, but I am having a hard time understanding you. I think you are leaving words out. I will give it my best shot to understand what you are trying to say.

Primary care physicians are not outnumbered but more of them are moving toward specialized care leaving this part of the pie to physician assistants and nurses. You talk about ways a physician can make more money, but is it not true that if this is the case, a physician can have 10 PA's under him and play a supervising role? The physician can confirm their diagnosises and paying attention to only important details? Most patients come in for their routine checkups anyway right? Wouldnt this mean a less need for physicians? When specializing collaspe due to an increase in shortage and decrease in pay (insurance companies cutting their costs), and physicians wanting back their pie, do you think the PA's and Nurses lobbying group (stronger than doctors), would let them do so?

Yes, the laws governing PAs vary state to state, but in every state it is required that a physician supervises them. Yes, a lot of primary care physicians like having PAs because it means that they can see more patients and make more money. A friend of the family who is part owner of a group practice says they make 30k/year off a PA. Primary care docs can make a lot more money if they are business minded- opening nursing homes, assisted living, etc.

Patients WILL prefer doctors and WILL prefer a specialized care doctor if they have their choice but unfortunely, MOST patients DO NOT make that choice. Their insurance companies do (including medicaid and medicare). Your hospital let 50 percent of their PAs go because of budgeting reasons probably.

No, I was specifically told that no one wanted to schedule their appointments with the PAs. Everyone wanted to schedule with the docs. Sure, some people do not have a choice, but a lot of people do have a choice.

You can probably see a co relationship to nurses, other staff, and a LESS hiring of doctors. The economics is there and in the end, a hospital is still a business. Why hire a surgeon to do a physical when you can hire a PA and a nurse for a lot less. Your working hours have little to do with attention. Can you tell me what kind of drug interactions are they? How severe? The patient can take medication A and wait for a few hours before taking medication b, yet both medications can interact with each other. What about doctor errors? Fraud? Do doctors walk around with a laptop while diagnosing patients? There is a lot more but you are still not getting patient counseling.

What? In english please... how does this apply here?

Patient counseling is REQUIRED by law for all patients by the pharmacy. Most patients may choose to waive that right but it is REQUIRED never the less. Federal government requires that a patient be counseled when a patient recieves any new medication for medicaid or medicare program (or else they cut funding to the state's program). This is where the need for clinical pharmacist appears. Hell, for all I care. . . I could care less about counseling. Less counseling means less work. I think if most pharmacists have a choice (Retail pharmacy), they can turn every patient down.

how does this apply to the topic being discussed? Perhaps you should wait until you graduate high school, finish undergrad, and finish pharm school until you start formulating your own opinions.

Its nice you want to be more involved with patient care, but the level of involvement in patient care is dependent on how much you care and not role you play. You can be a doctor and give little patient care at the same time. (Hospitals want more money and hence check more patients). A pharmacist can give a lot of patient care if the pharmacist chooses to.

what?

Once again. . . , why compare wage of the two professions alone. You emphasize on money too much. If you care about money so much, why not go into the dental field? They earn as much if not more for dental care (cosmetic?) and also HAVE THE TIME to use the money too.

THe same reason I would not do pharmacy. BORING! While some people may find solice in monotony, I enjoy being challenged. I realize that in almost every job there will be routine duties, but some are worse than others. According to the government the avg dental salary is around 120k and the avg physician salary is 170k (www.bls.gov). Most dentists work less, but not all doctors work as much as is stereotyped.

A pharmacist average wage is around 80k national with most places paying mid 90k starting. Lets look at the money after tax. . . Mid 90 k after a 40 percent reduction, leaving a pharmacist around high 50's to 60k. A doctor earning 120k national average with most pcp earning around 150k after taxes rake in about 90k. Of the 90k, the doctor will also have to pay a malpractice insurance that would range about 10k. 60k versus 80k. Clap clap and you have to go through four years of medical school and 4 to 8 years of residency. Here is a piece of advice for you. . . go dental. In terms of specialization, the tax bracket is around 50 percent so say you earn 500k. 250k after taxes plus malpractice insurance. . . yes you do come out earning more but hey. . . nobody is DEBATING that doctors get paid more than pharmacists. 🙄

you are way wrong here. i don't want to waste my time in this area.

There are also pharmacists that stumble and discover viagra and make more than 100 million dollars but I wont mention them since you wont mention the doctors that make 500k to 1 million more. (laughs as if they are common. I would rather have three doctors than one unless that doctor brings in a few millions dollar a year to my hospital because of his RESEARCH and PUBLICATIOn).

you think a pharmacist discoverd viagra? hahahahahaha..... anyways, there are many surgeons that make more than 500k. Just about any surgeon that wants to work a lot can do this. Surgical specialists easily make this.

Compare our pharmacy school 4 years undergraduate/2 years post graduate with average cost ranging from 10 to 30/40kish with most of the years covered by financial aid versus medical school that can go upwards to around 100k a year with med school not being covered. Yeah. . . what is your point?

what country are you from? It is a lot different in the states. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=223408&highlight=pharmacy+debt
Perhaps once you graduate high school and get into the real world (unless you have a rich daddy) you will have a better concept of money. Here's a hint- most students have also borrow money to live on- rent, food, & transportation. This can be anywhere between 10k and 20k per year, depending on where you live (in the US). Multiply by 4 and you get between 40 and 80k just for living expenses. This is assuming that person is not working. Most students do not work full-time. Now add your tuition onto this.

If you read something, be sure to let me take a look at it. Pharmacy debt should be an average of 40k per person. If the person signs on with a retail company, he can be sure to reduce that debt to around 20k without doing anything.

see above post. there are programs that repay the debt for pharmacists, but the same things are available for physicians...

 

[ForgetMeNot]

Most of us will be in the 25% tax bracket, won't we? 😕

Just over 30% of my weekly paycheck disappears to taxes.

 

[Monarch]

Dear Monarch,

reason being you won't see a dentist having night shifts is probably due to the fact that no patient would want to come in at 2 am for an extraction! hehe. buying medication isnt quite as invasive.

Really??? I would love to go for an extraction at 2 am. Takes the edge off.

 

[ultracet]

Most of us will be in the 25% tax bracket, won't we? 😕

perhaps it just depends on the state you are in...

 

[cosmicstarr]

I just want to comment on tax brackets. Some people have commented about being in a 25-40% tax bracket. If you are making close to $100k or more a year and are still in a 40% tax bracket, then you are not taking advantage of tax shelters. I cannot stress enough the advantage of the homeowner's deduction and itemizing your taxes.

So for all you future pharamcists, buy property as soon as possible after that first job. And during tax time, itemize and deduct, deduct, deduct!!!!

 

[T14dan]

well, i started out as pharm and had many friends who were pharm and pharm was much easier. even in my med school class there are a few pharmacists. pharm is a much easier to get into in my state (at least at 2 of the 3 schools- i know for a fact). According to the pharmacists in my class, it has been a lot harder/more material than pharm school. Med schools require 2 different applications (primary & secondary: 2 sets of essays) and interview. Not to mention you have to have stellar MCATs and GPAs, unless you can get in through affirmative action.

As for pharmacy being a better choice (for reasons listed)... i originally thought this and it is why i originally chose pharmacy. Then I worked as a tech (ZZZZzzzzz).... However, for a couple extra years of training you can make about double to triple the money has a physician (200-300k/year). There are at least a half dozen specialities that are like this and the work week is only 40-50 hours/week (radiology, opthalmology, anestisiology, dermatology, emergency medicine, heme-onc, cardiology... about anything except surgery). Basically, if you want to work good hours, then you find a job (i.e. group practice) that allows this.

So let's say you work as a pharmacist making a generous 90k after 8 years of schooling. With an MD degree you can start making 250k after 4 yrs undergradl, 4 year med school, 4 years residency (this varies ~10-12 yrs training). So the pharmacist will make 360k in those 4 years while the MD is still in school. The MD will have surpassed the income of the pharmacist after only 3 years of work. Pharmacist net income for 7 years work: 630k, MD after 3 years: 750k. The difference only increases from here (20 years: pharm- 1.8million, MD- 5 million). And the work is much more variable and interesting than counting pills!

Wrong.. A doctor will outearn a pharmacist, but it will take longer than 3 years. Med school is more expensive and the student loans accrue interest during residency. Next, at 300k you are going to be paying into a higher income bracket than the 110k pharmacist. All in all, i'd guess 5 years to overcome the pharmacist. After that, the physician wins by a mile.

 

[aglo123]

[quote="Aznfarmerboi, post: 2997483, member: 70044"
Patient counseling is REQUIRED by law for all patients by the pharmacy. Most patients may choose to waive that right but it is REQUIRED never the less. Federal government requires that a patient be counseled when a patient recieves any new medication for medicaid or medicare program (or else they cut funding to the state's program). This is where the need for clinical pharmacist appears. Hell, for all I care. . . I could care less about counseling. Less counseling means less work. I think if most pharmacists have a choice (Retail pharmacy), they can turn every patient down.

Its nice you want to be more involved with patient care, but the level of involvement in patient care is dependent on how much you care and not role you play. You can be a doctor and give little patient care at the same time. (Hospitals want more money and hence check more patients). A pharmacist can give a lot of patient care if the pharmacist chooses to.[/quote]

Then why the F**K would you want to be a pharmacist in the first place? Out of all the pharmacists I have worked under (17 in total), only ONE did not look forward to/did not give much effort in counseling. Counseling patients is probably the thing that pharmacists enjoy MOST, I wouldn't even consider it "work." As a pharmacist, you should absolutely look forward to the, in my opinion, relatively small amount of opportunities you get to educate and get your patients on the path to better health.

 

[radio frequency]

Wrong.. A doctor will outearn a pharmacist, but it will take longer than 3 years. Med school is more expensive and the student loans accrue interest during residency. Next, at 300k you are going to be paying into a higher income bracket than the 110k pharmacist. All in all, i'd guess 5 years to overcome the pharmacist. After that, the physician wins by a mile.

Do you realize the person you are replying to posted this OVER EIGHT YEARS AGO? And you resurrected this thread only to contradict their opinion?

....way to go, dude.

 

[T14dan]

Do you realize the person you are replying to posted this OVER EIGHT YEARS AGO? And you resurrected this thread only to contradict their opinion?

....way to go, dude.

I was curious what the pharmacy people would say now. I have heard about doctor reimbursements going down and pharmacy market saturation and I was hoping to get an idea of future earning potentials from people who knew more about this subject than me.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I became a pharmacist because my friends went into pharmacy also. I had no idea what a pharmacist did before signing up. I just saw that made lots of money counting pills (80 to 90k when I started)... and figured I can do that. I went into the pharmacy program from High school... so my mentality back then was different.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

I was curious what the pharmacy people would say now. I have heard about doctor reimbursements going down and pharmacy market saturation and I was hoping to get an idea of future earning potentials from people who knew more about this subject than me.

Looking back to my original posts, and looking forward as a pharmacist who has been in the field for a while now..., I do not regret it. I make 200k a year the last few years. I also have the potential to make half a mil very soon because I am moving up the corporate ladder.

Of course I am in the top 1 percent earnings... and I worked hard, had goals, and worked smart for it. I have a sweet store that although stressful is very rewarding. I am salaried so I have unlimited sick days, generous 401k match, 3 weeks (soon to be 4 weeks) vacation, and lots of other benefits. For example, the other day I brought a Mercedes... negotiated hard (and I negotiate)..., and after getting the guy down to the best price, I found out CVS has a corporate fleet discount. I called the guy and got a check for 2.5k back in the mail. I also don't have to worry about anything once I close the pharmacy.

I still hate counseling people and dealing with the public (too many idiots and drug addicts) but that comes with the territory.

 

[Verduchi]

A local grocery store chain here in western NY, is starting their Pharmacy school grads. of a particular school out at 150K/year with a 20k signing bonus!!