Anyone asked why not NP or PA in med school interview?

[1Path]

I had a phone interview with a school where my age came up (again!! ). I was asked why I didn't consider being an NP or PA since I'm in my late 30's and my response was that I don't want to be involved in patient care at that level and that most patient care heavy fields don't allow time for the career in academia I envision in my future. The interviewer responded that she didn't understand my interest in medicine. I responded that being a PA or nurse didn't fit my personality and that I was more interetsed in treating and preventing disease than in direct and intimate patient care (she knew I was applying MD/PhD). Opps, definitely NOT the answer she was looking for!!

I wasn't prepared to be asked about careers outside of medicine except why not the PhD or that people would suggest careers outside of the one I'm applying to ( I guess my MCAT wasn't high enough 🙄 ) and I'm not happy about the way I handled this. Any one have any suggestions for how to answer the question of why not PA or nursing without making myself look like an arse?? Has anyone else had a similar experience???

After giving the question of why not PA or nursing some thought, what I wished I had said is that I'm interested in studying the human body and the manifestation of diesease at a level only available in medical sschool and that I anticipate a leadership role in areas of patient care. Still, I don't think this would have been a satisfactory answer. 🙁

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i generally answer why medicine and not nursing that i want more autonomy and knowledge than i would get as a nurse. i'm a really intellectual person who wants to learn the most stuff possible, and i feel like i would eventually be frustrated as a nurse. not to say nurses don't know tons of stuff, but doctors generally know more. i guess the same could apply to np and pa.

from a logistical standpoint, both are unappealing, too, but that's probably not the most savvy thing to bring up. 🙂

anyway, your last paragraph sounds good.

 

[unfrozencaveman]

What a frustrating question. They are completely different jobs!! I have been asked variations on this, and I think the only way to handle that is to discuss what you see your professional future to be, and not harp on the negatives of PA, or RN, or lawyer, or circus acrobat, or whatever it is they think is a normal analogy. Then, move on. I found myself thinking I was getting painted into a corner too with my answers. I was asked the RN question, the PhD question, among others- and it definitely felt accusatory at the time, although I really doubt that it was meant to be. I think it's just a question on your specific career aspirations.
I was also asked, a propos of nothing, why I didnt go into architecture. I spent three years in finance, and was a history major, and have the artistic talent of maybe a small dog.
All in all, I am really confused and frustrated by this type of attitude, and this type of question. Someone in the other forum was trying to figure out how to *hide* the fact that he wanted to be an MD/MBA... I just can't believe someone going into research wouldn't qualify as someone "interested in medicine"!!

 

[1Path]

What a frustrating question. They are completely different jobs!! I have been asked variations on this, and I think the only way to handle that is to discuss what you see your professional future to be, and not harp on the negatives of PA, or RN, or lawyer, or circus acrobat, or whatever it is they think is a normal analogy. Then, move on.

Great points, you guys!!!

I DEFINITELY need to work on my "moving on" statements and I was particularily frustated that from that point on, because I couldn't get a word in edge wise (this is NOT a research heavy school). Not only that, she talked about another MD/PhD applicant she interviewed the previous year that when asked about his volunteer experience in the ER, stated he hated it, the poeple there and how things are run.

I'm STILL trying to figure out what my answer had to do with his?? 😕 I think there's a HUGE difference between not wanting to deal with peopel from diverse backgrounds/income levels and not wanting for example, to insert foley catheters on a regular basis!

 

[Febrifuge]

Sounds to me like you did a fine job answering the question. Your clarification seems like an even better answer, and you'll have it ready the next time you're asked.

FWIW, I have heard from docs, applicants, and even advisors that there are frequent "Kobayashi Maru" questions in interviews (how's that for a geek reference, eh?). They're not looking for a specific answer; they're looking for how you handle someone pressing you, and behaving as though your answer is "not what they're looking for." Every year people get accepted at schools where they feel they had the worst interview since Courtney Love was on Barbara Walters, and every year people feel like they had an awesome interview at a school that just punts them outright.

Not to mention, you've now thought this out. You're not just confident this is right for you; you can also explain how and why. That's something many applicants might not have.

One last point: when the age question comes up for me (among friends and family, since I'm merely a pre-PA now) I gauge the person and if I think I can get away from it, I point out that they used to ask women if they wouldn't rather be nurses so they could raise families too; they used to imply that Jews would have trouble taking call on Shabbat. There are laws to protect people from an institution's dumb assumptions based on things like age. I think if you can illustrate your age is something you've already taken into account as you made this decision, that's all you need.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Great points, you guys!!!

I DEFINITELY need to work on my "moving on" statements and I was particularily frustated that from that point on, because I couldn't get a word in edge wise (this is NOT a research heavy school). Not only that, she talked about another MD/PhD applicant she interviewed the previous year that when asked about his volunteer experience in the ER, stated he hated it, the poeple there and how things are run.

I'm STILL trying to figure out what my answer had to do with his?? 😕 I think there's a HUGE difference between not wanting to deal with peopel from diverse backgrounds/income levels and not wanting for example, to insert foley catheters on a regular basis!

Not to sound realy silly or anything, but have you asked yourself why not PA or Nursing and really thought it through to an answer that makes sense to you? Are you really clear on the jobs, and the differences? For me, that was one of the first things I did, and it took me months of considering it, because frankly, they are both (PA or NP) far more "logical" choices for someone in their late 30's, early 40's. (Whatever "logical" means...) I needed to know why for myself, first, cause its a huge commitment to make without knowing! I anticipate some overwhelming times in med school where I just feel like "This is crazy! Why the heck didn't I go to PA school or something!?!!" So, I want to know the answer ahead of time. And so now, when they ask, I know, completely and thoroughly.

Bottom line is that your answer to these people has to be what YOUR reasons are, not what you think they would like to hear because otherwise they are going to trip you up with questions some way, some how... its just a matter of how and when!

 

[QofQuimica]

I have to tell you that I'm surprised by your being asked about NP or PA, 1path, because you are very research-intensive. So I'd definitely have expected you to be asked why not straight PhD, but not why not PA or NP! Is this a pattern you're seeing, or only from this one random interviewer? Because sometimes interviewers get into this standard question mode and they ask questions that don't make very much sense in the context of your app. If that happens, the best thing to do IMHO is to reply with humor and grace, and try to avoid sounding defensive. I actually got asked why not MD/PhD once, right after I had just finished discussing how I was finishing my PhD before med school. So I joked that one PhD was sufficient for a lifetime as far as I was concerned, and the interviewer, who was a PhD, laughed and apologized.

I haven't found my age to be a big concern to interviewers so far, though I'm "only" 30, so that may explain part of it. The one interviewer who did ask me about my age seemed more concerned to know whether I was ok with having classmates ten years younger than me and residents five years younger than me, and I said I was. I mentioned some of the impressive things that my fellow trad interviewees had done, and that they certainly aren't your typical 20-year-olds. I believe this interviewer also wanted to make sure that I had thought things through, because I was also asked how I feel knowing that I'll be 40 when I finish all of my training. I said that I'll be 40 in ten years regardless of what I do, so I might as well be 40 with an MD and doing something that I love. And that my dad, who is almost 70, still works full-time as a physician, so I envision a long and productive career even starting at age 40. This answer seemed to be satisfactory.

Anyway, I guess I would say that if it's just that one interviewer asking you about PA or NP, I wouldn't worry about it too much. But if you are regularly being asked that question, then you will need to come up with a coherent and pithy explanation, and defend it without sounding defensive. As far as your age is concerned, well, that's a tough one for you in particular, since you're applying to a long combined program. But you can give my answer a shot if you like it, and hopefully it will suffice.

 

[unfrozencaveman]

I actually got asked why not MD/PhD once, right after I had just finished discussing how I was finishing my PhD before med school. So I joked that one PhD was sufficient for a lifetime as far as I was concerned, and the interviewer, who was a PhD, laughed and apologized.

<--- Same dude who asked me why I didn't go into architecture! (if I remember correctly)

 

[QofQuimica]

<--- Same dude who asked me why I didn't go into architecture! (if I remember correctly)

Yeah, or at least a spiritual sibling. Although I gotta tell you, caveman, that architecture question was WAY out in left field. I mean, at least the PhD question was vaguely related to my avowed career goal in research. 😛

 

[1Path]

Not to sound realy silly or anything, but have you asked yourself why not PA or Nursing and really thought it through to an answer that makes sense to you? Are you really clear on the jobs, and the differences? when!

A resonable question. Like most nontrads that enter into this process later in life, I researched every career that involved medicine. However, my "issue" is that I'm pretty sure I'm NOT interested in a patient care field of medicine (I'm making a B-line for pathology although oncology is my second choice).

I didn't decide on medicine then look at what fields I may be interested in. I did some research, attended a number of seminars, and decided on WHAT I wanted to do then looked at the credentials I'd need to do it. Signs outs, consultations with other physicans patient treatment plans for example require an MD. I have a very strong interest in cancer patients/research and so the MD/PhD fits the bill perfectly.

I really think asking about PA or NP for a person who's applying to a combined MD/PhD program is VERY strange since most people applying MD/PhD are interested in research (I've personally never heard of an NP or PA running a laboratory). Maybe she was trying to see how I would handle the question, I guess I'll never know. At this point, I have no intention of further pursuing admission to this school as the school is VERY low yield where research is concerned anyway.

 

[1Path]

So I'd definitely have expected you to be asked why not straight PhD, but not why not PA or NP! Is this a pattern you're seeing, or only from this one random interviewer?

I mentioned having a family (see, I KNEW this would be a HUGE mistake!! 😡 ) so maybe that's why the NP/PA suggestion came up.

I wish I could say that this was one random interviewer in my experiences but it's not. It's either the family thing or my age. Once the family thing comes up, I think you're fair game to any question on the planet!! But trust me, I won't make this mistake again!

And yes Q, my favorite line about applying MD/PhD at my age is that I can either be 50 something with a new minted MD/PhD or 50 something without one! I'm choosing the career of a lifetime instead of having a life with regrets. 👍

 

[medanthgirl]

<--- Same dude who asked me why I didn't go into architecture! (if I remember correctly)

maybe the interviewer was a seinfeld fan...

🙂

 

[unfrozencaveman]

maybe the interviewer was a seinfeld fan...

🙂

Hah. Oddly enough, my real name is Art Vandalay.

But, along the same vein as the "why not PhD, when you already have one", the jist of the question was "why didn't you try something else?". Ummm... What was I doing in finance the past four years? The funny thing was, this guy knew my application better than I did.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
I was never asked about PA or NP during any of my interviews and I was well over 40 when I applied to medical school. If you already have a graduate degree, why would you backtrack to pick up a BSN and then a MSN for NP? If you have a Ph.D, why would you want another bachelors and a masters? That would seem to be a backwards move in terms of degrees and you may not be interested in the nursing model of patient care.

While being a PA is a wonderful clinical profession, being a physician has more depth and breadth of practice. As a PA, you are going to be limited to a specific area. No matter how many advanced skills you acquire, you will still practice at a mid-level. If you are just not that interested in clinical medicine, then being a PA is not going to make much sense. Again, being a PA is a great clinical vocation but being an MD/DO gives you many more options for depth of practice. PA is an excellent pre-med major.

njbmd 🙂

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I really think asking about PA or NP for a person who's applying to a combined MD/PhD program is VERY strange since most people applying MD/PhD are interested in research (I've personally never heard of an NP or PA running a laboratory). Maybe she was trying to see how I would handle the question, I guess I'll never know. At this point, I have no intention of further pursuing admission to this school as the school is VERY low yield where research is concerned anyway.

I agree that it's a weird question for your situation. It's an okay question (except I think febrifuge has a point about some discrimination going on if it's only a question asked of older applicants) for non PhD applicants. I think Orth is right that it's a question all nontrads who are interested in clinical work ask ourselves anyway. For you, though, it seems about the same as asking unfrozencaveman about architecture.

 

[Orthodoc40]

A resonable question. Like most nontrads that enter into this process later in life, I researched every career that involved medicine. However, my "issue" is that I'm pretty sure I'm NOT interested in a patient care field of medicine (I'm making a B-line for pathology although oncology is my second choice).

I didn't decide on medicine then look at what fields I may be interested in. I did some research, attended a number of seminars, and decided on WHAT I wanted to do then looked at the credentials I'd need to do it. Signs outs, consultations with other physicans patient treatment plans for example require an MD. I have a very strong interest in cancer patients/research and so the MD/PhD fits the bill perfectly.

I really think asking about PA or NP for a person who's applying to a combined MD/PhD program is VERY strange since most people applying MD/PhD are interested in research (I've personally never heard of an NP or PA running a laboratory). Maybe she was trying to see how I would handle the question, I guess I'll never know. At this point, I have no intention of further pursuing admission to this school as the school is VERY low yield where research is concerned anyway.

Wow the more I think about it, and reading this whole thread, I realize that yah - it really WAS strange to ask you that question based on your MD/PhD interest. It wouldn't be so weird based on the age thing, but - very strange indeed. Sounds like they really weren't paying much attention... how annoying! Anyway you obviously know what your reasons are so that's what you should answer to them if they or anyone else ever ask again, I guess! 😎

 

[1Path]

Wow the more I think about it, and reading this whole thread, I realize that yah - it really WAS strange to ask you that question based on your MD/PhD interest.

I really think it was more of a question about me having a family and I agree that perhaps it is strange for a late 30 something with a family to be interested in medicine. But I can also recall not too long ago how "strange" it was to some people for women and/or minorities to be interested in medicine too. Then again maybe she wanted to see how dedicated I was to the combined program.

Geez, I just wasn't prepared for this gender/age discrimination stuff (although the MD/PhD thread on SDN prepared me from the age perspective 😛 ). After spending some time at the NIH where what you do is looked at much, much more than who/how old you are when you do it, I guess I had become over accustomed to excellence as opposed to ignorance.

 

[primadonna22274]

THanks for the vote of PA confidence.
I too agree that my preparation as a PA (5 years family practice) will serve me well in med school and beyond.
I think the OP makes a perfectly valid point--that he is seeking a more cognitive and less clinical role. These are the points he should emphasize--and quite frankly, the interviewer who didn't get that is missing the point.
We are not all made to be clinicians. I'm a great clinician but I'm frustrated at the limitations of my knowledge and scope. No matter how smart I am, how motivated, as a PA, I can only go so far. We talk about the "glass ceiling" in PA-dom all the time and believe me, it exists and it is impenetrable.
So, now that you've been asked the question, you can articulate your answer a bit more effectively. It's unfortunate that the interviewer was able to trip you up over what should have been a relatively minor point, but so what--not the end of the world. Better luck next time.
Lisa PA-C

Hi there,
I was never asked about PA or NP during any of my interviews and I was well over 40 when I applied to medical school. If you already have a graduate degree, why would you backtrack to pick up a BSN and then a MSN for NP? If you have a Ph.D, why would you want another bachelors and a masters? That would seem to be a backwards move in terms of degrees and you may not be interested in the nursing model of patient care.

While being a PA is a wonderful clinical profession, being a physician has more depth and breadth of practice. As a PA, you are going to be limited to a specific area. No matter how many advanced skills you acquire, you will still practice at a mid-level. If you are just not that interested in clinical medicine, then being a PA is not going to make much sense. Again, being a PA is a great clinical vocation but being an MD/DO gives you many more options for depth of practice. PA is an excellent pre-med major.

njbmd 🙂

 

[albaniandoc]

That does sound like a stupid question.
One answer would be: I like to go for the most money possible. That would assure your acceptance. Just kidding.
While, PAs and NPs are great professions ( I work with them everyday), I think that you got to go where your heart is. If your heart is in medicine than it does not matter how old you are, you have to follow your heart.
That's the best answer I can think to give to someone like that.
Of course there is always the counter attack, saying. I want to be a doctor most likely for the same reasons you wanted to become a doctor.
Good luck

 

[dasta]

I had a similar question when I applied to a post-bacc premed program earlier this year. The coordinator of the program wanted to know that with all my health care experience (14 years volunteering), why would anyone my age (45 when I apply) want to go MD when I could go PA? I replied that I wanted to maximize my abilities and capabilities as a clinician, that I did not want to be limited where such may hinder my performance, that I wanted to be able to do things at a higher level (i.e. surgery), and that for the type of medicine that I'm interested in (international surgical health care), PA and NP degrees are not recognized. PAs and NPs can assist in surgery and do minor surgery, but can never be surgeons. Eventually I would like to do international surgical public health programs (e.g. Interplast), and the fact is that the people who start these programs, work in them, and administer them, tend to be MDs.

Could I practice as a PA or NP in such programs? Yes as long I'm still in the U.S.
Could I do surgery full-on as a PA or NP? No.
Could I run a surgery program in the U.S. as a PA? Perhaps.
Could I do the same in Uganda or Mongolia or Bolivia as a PA or NP? No, those degrees are not recognized internationally for such a position or task.

Indeed, even DO degrees are not universally recognized (Uganada, for example does not recognize the DOs).

As far as the dual degree issue: I, too, wanted to do a dual MD/PhD (with the PhD in the social sciences) but have since changed my mind. While I have some research in social medicine, I think that applying to such programs given my unique background would increase the likelihood of rejection for me (not necessarily for others). Instead, I plan on doing a social medicine PhD either after I get in, or after I get my MD. Now I wonder if I should tell my med school interviewer about my PhD plans . . .perhaps they'll reject me as being unrealistic . . .

To paraphrase a prior thread, someday we should all be so lucky to live in a world/society where people are valued for their ambition, drive, and intelligence rather than stunted and denied opportunities because of their "shortcomings." But we are a "long way from that utopia."

 

[PhDtoDO]

I didn't read all the responses, but many schools prefer older students for MD/PhDs. I also know a couple of MD/PhD students who didn't ace the MCAT...one of them actually told me her boyfriend, another MD/PhD got a 25 or 26 was late 30s but had several publications...UofChicago no less. They weren't and shouldn't be as concerned with your MCAT or you age as with your qualifications. MD/PhDs are almost a whole nother ball game...sometimes the admissions people don't really get that.

I had a roommate while I was working at the NIH who got into med school when I only got weightlisted and she thought I should go into nursing.....I now understand that its because she didn't think I was nearly as smart as she is....nope....just as smart if not smarter, just not nearly as arrogant.

I have many many friends who are nurses and one is in NP school at Duke right now. They are totally different jobs. And my friends are totally smart and great students...just just a different career.

They age thing...that is totally wierd and stupid. What school was it? More than half of the MD/PhD students I've met over the years (I've met many) were in their late 20s or 30s and not just early 30s.

Just remember, like my impression of premed advisors...they are not doctors and they don't know everything. Just try to have intelligent answers for stupid questions. Even I say stupid stuff now and again.

Just my opinion.

sarah

 

[1Path]

I also know a couple of MD/PhD students who didn't ace the MCAT...one of them actually told me her boyfriend, another MD/PhD got a 25 or 26 was late 30s but had several publications...UofChicago no less.

What's funnier than this is that I had the director of an MSTP MD/PhD program tell me to submit my secondary app ASAP so I could get the interview scheduled ASAP, and here it is this barely PhD granting school with a non MSTP, is trippin' about my age. This process is so dam random!!!! 😡

I had a roommate while I was working at the NIH who got into med school when I only got weightlisted and she thought I should go into nursing.....I now understand that its because she didn't think I was nearly as smart as she is....nope....just as smart if not smarter, just not nearly as arrogant.

I can't tell you how "interesting" my academic/professinal life has become now that NIH is on my CV. Many, Many doors that weren't open to me before are just wide open now (like an MSTP interview with an MCAT under 30), so I encourage anyone who is interested in research to spend some time there even if it's only a month.

They age thing...that is totally wierd and stupid. What school was it? More than half of the MD/PhD students I've met over the years (I've met many) were in their late 20s or 30s and not just early 30s.

About revealing this school, I'm an ol' black woman in a VERY, VERY small world. It's far to early in my career to be "making enemies" before I get to where I'm going. But I will tell you that this was a southern school which probably isn't a suprise to many I'm sure!

Just try to have intelligent answers for stupid questions.

Touche! I definitely get it now!