Anyone do the full time hospitalist job (7 on / 7 off) plus a locum job?

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TheGalvaniFrog

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Hi, there. I was wondering if anyone here works as a hospitalist and have the 7 on and 7 off schedule also do some locum work at another hospital. Obviously this would be a tiring schedule. But besides the fatigue factor, any other downsides or things to watch for?

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I plan on doing this. I can't imagine myself sitting on my ass for 7 days straight, and there is only so much traveling/hobby to do for 1/2 year. Gotta make some money to pay off those loans. The downlsides I anticipate are:
-The amount of traveling if locum gig is not local
-The cost of potential rental/car/malpractice
-If you make more you have to pay more TAX
-Having to learn new EMR, but this is just a minor thing
-Having to leave your family/love ones/house/pets for 1/2 a year if locum gig is not local
-Gotta make sure the NON-COMPETE clause from your full time gig is not violated
-Gotta find new gyms in new areas, (this is just my personal factor)
....i'm sure there's more
 
Lots of people think that they are going to end up doing this. Almost nobody ends up actually doing it.
 
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Lots of people think that they are going to end up doing this. Almost nobody ends up actually doing it.

What about flying off to vacations in Greece and Vietnam during your off time?
 
What about flying off to vacations in Greece and Vietnam during your off time?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
I'm the medical director for a hospitalist program that employs 19 docs and 4 midlevels. We also have a number of part-time people and locums folks that work for us. A bunch of them do 7 onn/7off at one spot and work a week or a few days here and there for us. Quite a few of our full time docs work in other preactices when they are off. Our hospital is owned by a large company and has 5 hospitals within a few hours of here. They like having having us cross-credentialed to work at other facilities when the need arises- if we choose to do so. Our census varies from 120 to 180 or more, often within a week, so we have to be flexible with scheduling. However, not every hospital or system will allow this. There are some that think they own you and will prevent you from working anywhere else. Know this up front! It is true that a non-compete clause is not enforceable in a hospitalist situation because there are no damages when you work for a competitor. They don't lose any money because they aren't losing patients. But, they can tie you up with injunctions for so long that you will wish you never tried it.

The thing with true locums work, though, is that they pay for ALL the expenses. You just collect the money, but you will not be an employee. They will cover malpractice and you will be responsible for taxes, but they cover hotel, flights and rental car, and usually the expense of licensing you in other state if need be. Because of this, it's more costly for me and I try to use fewer locums and more part-time people. But, you can't always do that in every situation.
 
I'm the medical director for a hospitalist program that employs 19 docs and 4 midlevels. We also have a number of part-time people and locums folks that work for us. A bunch of them do 7 onn/7off at one spot and work a week or a few days here and there for us. Quite a few of our full time docs work in other preactices when they are off. Our hospital is owned by a large company and has 5 hospitals within a few hours of here. They like having having us cross-credentialed to work at other facilities when the need arises- if we choose to do so. Our census varies from 120 to 180 or more, often within a week, so we have to be flexible with scheduling. However, not every hospital or system will allow this. There are some that think they own you and will prevent you from working anywhere else. Know this up front! It is true that a non-compete clause is not enforceable in a hospitalist situation because there are no damages when you work for a competitor. They don't lose any money because they aren't losing patients. But, they can tie you up with injunctions for so long that you will wish you never tried it.

The thing with true locums work, though, is that they pay for ALL the expenses. You just collect the money, but you will not be an employee. They will cover malpractice and you will be responsible for taxes, but they cover hotel, flights and rental car, and usually the expense of licensing you in other state if need be. Because of this, it's more costly for me and I try to use fewer locums and more part-time people. But, you can't always do that in every situation.

Is it possible to negotiate a non-compete clause out of the contract before you sign, or is this something most places won't budge on?
 
Is it possible to negotiate a non-compete clause out of the contract before you sign, or is this something most places won't budge on?
It really varies based on location.

Non-compete clauses for physicians aren't even legal in a number of states. In CA for example, they might put it in the contract... but it is completely unenforceable except in one, very limited circumstance. (You sell your practice including your patient panel, then immediately quit with their money and open a practice across the street)
 
The hospitalist group that I am involved with is happy to throw extra shifts to their hospitalists in addition to their standard workload- a built-in in-group moonlighting. It's nice because it's in-town, often at the same hospital you're working at anyway so you already know the system, AND you not only get the moonlighting per-shift reimbursement but they your work in that shift count towards the productivity bonus in your full time contract(we call it double dipping).
 
The hospitalist group that I am involved with is happy to throw extra shifts to their hospitalists in addition to their standard workload- a built-in in-group moonlighting. It's nice because it's in-town, often at the same hospital you're working at anyway so you already know the system, AND you not only get the moonlighting per-shift reimbursement but they your work in that shift count towards the productivity bonus in your full time contract(we call it double dipping).
Do they pay you at a higher rate than the normal shift? Because usually locum shifts pay more than regular shifts, so it might be worth it to go somewhere else and forget that familiarity. There are groups that recognize the value of familiarity to Hospitalists so they do not want to pay extra if you do extra shift with them. Kinda selling yourself short , imho
 
Do they pay you at a higher rate than the normal shift? Because usually locum shifts pay more than regular shifts, so it might be worth it to go somewhere else and forget that familiarity. There are groups that recognize the value of familiarity to Hospitalists so they do not want to pay extra if you do extra shift with them. Kinda selling yourself short , imho

Our pay is largely production based, so it's not an entirely straightforward question. With the moonlighting hourly rate and the double dipping of counting stuff you do while moonlighting toward your productivity bonus, it is expected to be a higher total rate than the norm. I don't think it's selling yourself short.

Something else you have to realize is the time commitment with a lot of locum agreements. Yes there is a lot of need out there but places aren't just looking for you to fly in, work a shift, and fly out. When I was talking to a locums firm once they were really pushing for commitments of a week at a time. This is where the extra work with your own group can play out nicely because it's easier to 'just pick up an extra shift or two.' This is also part of why someone previously in this thread said that hospitalist + extra locums is something that everyone thinks about, but few people truly do.
 
I work a 7/7 full time gig, though it is not strictly 7/7. Also work at 2-3 other places as locums. average around 6 shifts a month between those places. how many at each varies based on how scheduling works out. Considering going to pure locums nocturnist work when my contract ends and just paying for benefits. Can approach 475-500k working 18 nights a month in this manner.
 
I work a 7/7 full time gig, though it is not strictly 7/7. Also work at 2-3 other places as locums. average around 6 shifts a month between those places. how many at each varies based on how scheduling works out. Considering going to pure locums nocturnist work when my contract ends and just paying for benefits. Can approach 475-500k working 18 nights a month in this manner.
he is an intensivitst....you won't make that as a hospitalist unless you work you but off...an work in the the middle of nowhere...
 
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Something like this would have to be well planned and may not be possible in all locations w/o a lot of travel. 1st step is to find a cush main hospitalist job (unless you are a man/woman of steel, it's not gonna be fun working on your off weeks when your main job kicks your butt). It also helps to be somewhere in the boonies. You won't make 475-500K doing pure hospitalist this way, but somewhere in the high $200Ks to low $300Ks would seem attainable.
 
he is an intensivitst....you won't make that as a hospitalist unless you work you but off...an work in the the middle of nowhere...

I am not in the middle of nowhere. Rural southern va but within an hour or Raleigh, Durham, etc. And 18-20 shifts per month of full locums for me as a hospitalist would gross about 500k. I am not telling you what I think is possible, I am telling you my actual projection based on what I am bringing in.

300k is base for 15 nights as a full time nocturnist in the community world of the south. Add 6 shifts a month @200/hour and I would be north of 400 plus benefits and 401k. If I went to pure locums I would easily break 500. The variation between hospitalist and nocturnist, including locums hospitalist and locums nights only, is massive.
 
I am not in the middle of nowhere. Rural southern va but within an hour or Raleigh, Durham, etc. And 18-20 shifts per month of full locums for me as a hospitalist would gross about 500k. I am not telling you what I think is possible, I am telling you my actual projection based on what I am bringing in.

300k is base for 15 nights as a full time nocturnist in the community world of the south. Add 6 shifts a month @200/hour and I would be north of 400 plus benefits and 401k. If I went to pure locums I would easily break 500. The variation between hospitalist and nocturnist, including locums hospitalist and locums nights only, is massive.
I have a question.
The locum company cannot dictate where you have to work or what shift to take right? You can still have the final say on what and where to work right?
Plus do you think the locum gigs would be running out soon ? Or at least the ones that you want will be limited in the near future?
 
I am not in the middle of nowhere. Rural southern va but within an hour or Raleigh, Durham, etc. And 18-20 shifts per month of full locums for me as a hospitalist would gross about 500k. I am not telling you what I think is possible, I am telling you my actual projection based on what I am bringing in.

300k is base for 15 nights as a full time nocturnist in the community world of the south. Add 6 shifts a month @200/hour and I would be north of 400 plus benefits and 401k. If I went to pure locums I would easily break 500. The variation between hospitalist and nocturnist, including locums hospitalist and locums nights only, is massive.

i worked "rural" southern va (Carillon) and I'm not sure where you are getting 200/hr as a IM hospitalist...intensivist i can buy...you managed to get someone to give you 200/hr is amazing but its not the norm...and 18-20 shifts a month is also more then the typical hospitalist...

to make a gross 500k as full locums you have to make in the neighborhood of 230/hr...for IM, this is not typical (let me know where cuz i plan to work locums again for a few months after fellowship to study for boards...230/hr would be GREAT!).
 
Um sorry to break your misguided post but YES 200/hour is what most NOCTURNIST HOSPITLALIST LOCUMS MAKE and 175-190/hour is what most LOCUMS day pays
no need to an ass dude...i worked as hospitalist as well, and am looking now for a few weeks before boards....NE is paying 140-150 (though no ICU)... that's great you can get that...but my recruiter is looking for me and those are not the amounts i'm hearing...

let me know where...175-190 would be great.
 
do NOT take what your recruiter says as the ultimate word. Look for yourself by calling hospitals and/or telling the recruiter you will not work for less than a set amount that you must be comfortable with. Trust me they always low ball you and you have to be assertive and demand the right price. In the Midwest and South that IS what I am asking and getting.
 
do NOT take what your recruiter says at the ultimate word and look for yourself by calling hospitals and/or telling the recruiter you will not work for less than that trust me they always low ball you and you have to be assertive and demand the right price. In the Midwest and South that IS what I am asking and getting.

i'm not relying on just him...i have friends who are still hospitalists...NE is terrible, but I'm living here for the moment and if i can find a place that just needs to have a doc in house for their tiny island hospital and pays me 150 for hanging out....eh, i'll take it!
 
It's regional. I'm really happy if someone gives me $150/hr for a night in SoCal (no ICU, no procedures)...
 
In California, locum rate is low, 110-125/ dayshift and 125-150/night.
 
CA is such a bull**** state. If it weren't for the ocean coastline and my family living there I would never go back. I am from CA originally btw
 
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