anyone else debating whether or not a life in medicine is REALLY for them???

intuition

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I'm stuck right now. I def. want to be a doctor, but I honestly don't know if I could handle the first two years which are just basically upper level sciences. I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

Also, I was looking at some med school notes/books from my buddies who are in med school..and i don't know if I could handle learning these sciences ...some subjects are interesting but others make me want to pull my hair out...bc I don't care about these subjects.


is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?
 

ChubbyChaser

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Nope not debating thats whatfresh year was for.
 

copperfrog09

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Those are very certain conclusions to make about a class you have not taken. Regardless, you will hear anyone on this forum who is already in medical school say that O.Chem bears very little similarity to what you will learn in med school Try other subjects, what about biology or anatomy and physiology? If you don't like any of these, then perhaps consider whether medical school is right for you. Have you shadowed physicians?
 
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JA Prufrock

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For what it's worth, ochem is actually pretty fun. A whole lot more intuitive than gen chem, and none of that annoying math.
 
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intuition

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I'm actually finishing up my third year.

I just don't want to take gen chem, or ochem, or physio, or anything like that...i like learning about it in my spare time, but it makes me nervous as hell to take exams on them
 

bioteach

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Nope.

But then I am 29 and have tried being a wildlife biologist, zookeeper, animal behavior researcher, college professor... basically everything I could ever potentially wish I had done. But if you'd asked me to commit to one career when I was 20, I couldn't have done it.
 

wisconsindoctor

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I took this from another thread.

"I want the MD for the knowledge and the degree, but I don't give two shits about being a clinician or being subject to clueless hospital administration or submissive to insurance companies or hiring professionally trained game-players (coding/billing professionals) just to get any semblance of reimbursement.

Any construct that becomes a system must be destroyed. Thousands of people died for freedom; why are doctors such big ******* on both Capitol Hill as well as in residency programs? Rigidity is for fucking robots, not humans. Structure is for fucking doormats. Is morale and self-esteem that low that change cannot be made? That doesn't fly well with me. Unacceptable.

And besides, clinicans only make low to mid six figures, and they have a decade's delay of practically zero income and a growing negative net worth. I would imagine that if you run the numbers and presume one finishes training at age 35 with 250K in the hole and... I dunno, 80K in assets and grossing 200K/year, that it would take until what, late 40's/early 50's before breaking 1M? Uhhh, what? Oh, and think of the toll on your spouse and your children -- not being there for them for a good 4-10 years. And then possibly taking call for the next 10 years. So when does the deferred gratification actually bear fruit? When you're fucking 70 years old and finally retire?

http://www.freshminds.com/animation/...atts_life.html

Life isn't just a means to an end but a song that must be danced to and enjoyed along the way. There's only so much deferred gratification one can take before one snaps and either violently breaks inanimate objects or develops premature heart dz. Or gets into a permanently disabling car accident secondary to microsleeping for 8 seconds behind the wheel and not realizing it.

I'm only pissed off because I haven't slept since Monday and I'm [finally!] starting to hallucinate a la the opening scene to Fight Club where there's artifacts and motion blurs and visual deja vu (yay! how fun!), and I think today is Thursday, and I don't for the life of me see how physicians can tolerate working 7 days/week or working 40 consecutive hours and still be able to perform so that they don't kill their last 25% of patients for that day. I often think about why at least 1/3 of the attendings I converse with are douchebags, and maybe this is a chicken-and-egg phenomenon (did medicine make this person from a loving, empathic, helpful person into an asshole or were they already an asshole to begin with and was simply drawn to medicine? Which came first? I see correlation, but what about causality?) or maybe it's because these attendings are in so much mental and emotional anguish after being fed the lie that medicine is glamorous, only to find out that it has completely raped their brains and dissolved their souls over the past decade of training, leaving only a robotic automaton of an empty shell just counting down the hours/cases until he/she can go home and turn one's brain off and have a glass or two or three or four of wine or single-malt scotch. I know for a fact that my personality is completely different when I'm tired, so maybe I am falsely judging these attendings for their arrogance and douchebaggery, or maybe there simply are arrogant douchebags in medicine and sleep deprivation has nothing to do with it? I dunno. I'm rambling.

There's got to be some honest-to-Gawd niche in medicine: something for everyone. Because I can totally picture the scenario that the OP is frustrated about quite easily: repetition, cookie-cutter time deadlines for pts (when the "true art" of medicine demands no such deadlines), bullshit CYA defensive medicine orders/tests/procedures/imaging/whatever just to save both your ass as well as your partners, mid/ancillary staff, the administration, and the hospital's collective asses when you get sued by some completely greedy fuckmonkey when it is truly, genuinely not your mistake that the mishap is attributable, but simply the fact that human bodies are designed to die or break down anyways and the physician was simply present so what better scapegoat? Lovely. (Disclaimer: not talking about genuine fuck-ups here but mainly bullshit ____ lawsuits (what's the word I'm thinking of?) )

I'm too young and not even into any training whatsoever to be this cynical, but I have high expectations for careers, and if there is no satisfaction, then that seems like a waste of time and energy when one could have been making memories and singing and dancing along the journey of life all along. Trail blazing one's own destiny rather than putting your feet in the proverbial footprints that the AAMC or AMA have already molded out for you to follow to the T. Uh, what? Who the hell wants to be a follower? Who the hell wants to be just like thousands of other people in your career?

I think I'll go take a nap under my desk now. I'll set my alarm for lunch."
 

DoctorRx1986

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I'm stuck right now. I def. want to be a doctor, but I honestly don't know if I could handle the first two years which are just basically upper level sciences. I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

Also, I was looking at some med school notes/books from my buddies who are in med school..and i don't know if I could handle learning these sciences ...some subjects are interesting but others make me want to pull my hair out...bc I don't care about these subjects.


is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?

First of all, do you have any idea what organic chemistry is about? Did you KNOW it is the study of carbon-containing molecules, their electronic properties, reactions, synthesis, and application to biology as well as real life? Be aware that organic chemistry is the very foundation of life itself. If you did not know this, shame on you, young man or woman (lol, i'm 21 and a young man). Before anything, I suggest you do some research into the discipline and try to develop at least an interest in it. The only reason you probably don't care for the subject is because you're ignorant of what it entails and have no idea of its applications. Organic molecules are of prime importance in all aspects of life...there is almost no other branch of chemistry, i believe, that touches upon every aspect of life the way organic does. The entire pharmaceutical industry is based upon the study and discovery of new organic molecules that can be used to treat and even prevent illness. The very foods we eat, from carbohydrates (containing carbon, hydrogen, and other elements), lipids (which have esters that can be hydrolyzed to free fatty acids and thus burned in the body), proteins, nucleic acids, etc... are all composed of carbon. But if you're truly as bitter and uninterested in organic chemistry as you seem, do yourself a favor...do not even use table sugar, which is ORGANIC and has several hydroxyl (OH) groups, in your morning coffee. That makes for an even more bitter experience! :mad: Next time you take a shower and use soap, realize that the soap your'e using is guess what? ALSO composed of organic molecules (long carbon chains with a metal ion such as sodium or potassium) and the soap industry is all based upon a type of reaction called saponification....you learn this in organic 2. If you're a girl or woman, THROW OUT ALL OF YOUR COSMETIC PRODUCTS NOW! For if you are completely uninterested in organic chemistry and say it's so boring, then your cosmetics should be boring as well because GUESS WHAT? THEY TOO ARE ORGANIC MOLECULES! Lipstick, makeup, eyeliner, whatever women use to enhance their beauty are mostly made up of carbon containing molecules. Perfumes as well. The very plastics we use for everyday storage are for all pratical purposes, long monomers of carbon...they're organic polymers! If you drive a car, FORGET about keeping it and just sell it...why are you going to continue spending your money on gasoline? After all, you'd be spending money on hydrocarbons...ah, organic molecules once again! to power your vehicle. And your car's very rubber tires also contain carbon. I guess you mostly dislike yourself as well and think of your body as boring and uninteresting. Do you know why I say this? Yep, you guessed it! That's right, our very bodies, our skin, our muscle tissue, our blood, hair, etc... are composed of organic molecules. The chemical reactions in our body that keep us alive are organic reactions, for the most part. I have said most of these things to open your eyes into what you are missing out. Organic chemistry has played an indispensable role in everyday life and without it, we would be living life as if it were the 12th century. Almost all of the technologies, goods, and services we enjoy would not be possible without organic chemistry. So, use your intuition first and get a feel for this beautiful subject. It is a very worthwhile path and learning the subject will leave you with a sense of fascination, deeper understanding, and fondness of the material world. Perhaps, after you finish the course, you'll start reading some of the chemical names on the back of a shampoo or car liquid? Maybe you'll read one and recognize it as diethylene glycol! Aha! Antifreeze...what a wonderful molecule for my car, but very toxic for me! Or drinking ethyl alcohol will never be the same for you! The study of organic chemistry will nevertheless require much hard work, sacrifice, and thought for it is heavy in its contents, but if you put your mind to it, you will succeed. Welcome to organic chemistry...welcome to life!:love:
 

135892

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First of all, do you have any idea what organic chemistry is about? Did you KNOW it is the study of carbon-containing molecules, their electronic properties, reactions, synthesis, and application to biology as well as real life? Be aware that organic chemistry is the very foundation of life itself. If you did not know this, shame on you, young man or woman (lol, i'm 21 and a young man). Before anything, I suggest you do some research into the discipline and try to develop at least an interest in it. The only reason you probably don't care for the subject is because you're ignorant of what it entails and have no idea of its applications. Organic molecules are of prime importance in all aspects of life...there is almost no other branch of chemistry, i believe, that touches upon every aspect of life the way organic does. The entire pharmaceutical industry is based upon the study and discovery of new organic molecules that can be used to treat and even prevent illness. The very foods we eat, from carbohydrates (containing carbon, hydrogen, and other elements), lipids (which have esters that can be hydrolyzed to free fatty acids and thus burned in the body), proteins, nucleic acids, etc... are all composed of carbon. But if you're truly as bitter and uninterested in organic chemistry as you seem, do yourself a favor...do not even use table sugar, which is ORGANIC and has several hydroxyl (OH) groups, in your morning coffee. That makes for an even more bitter experience! :mad: Next time you take a shower and use soap, realize that the soap your'e using is guess what? ALSO composed of organic molecules (long carbon chains with a metal ion such as sodium or potassium) and the soap industry is all based upon a type of reaction called saponification....you learn this in organic 2. If you're a girl or woman, THROW OUT ALL OF YOUR COSMETIC PRODUCTS NOW! For if you are completely uninterested in organic chemistry and say it's so boring, then your cosmetics should be boring as well because GUESS WHAT? THEY TOO ARE ORGANIC MOLECULES! Lipstick, makeup, eyeliner, whatever women use to enhance their beauty are mostly made up of carbon containing molecules. Perfumes as well. The very plastics we use for everyday storage are for all pratical purposes, long monomers of carbon...they're organic polymers! If you drive a car, FORGET about keeping it and just sell it...why are you going to continue spending your money on gasoline? After all, you'd be spending money on hydrocarbons...ah, organic molecules once again! to power your vehicle. And your car's very rubber tires also contain carbon. I guess you mostly dislike yourself as well and think of your body as boring and uninteresting. Do you know why I say this? Yep, you guessed it! That's right, our very bodies, our skin, our muscle tissue, our blood, hair, etc... are composed of organic molecules. The chemical reactions in our body that keep us alive are organic reactions, for the most part. I have said most of these things to open your eyes into what you are missing out. Organic chemistry has played an indispensable role in everyday life and without it, we would be living life as if it were the 12th century. Almost all of the technologies, goods, and services we enjoy would not be possible without organic chemistry. So, use your intuition first and get a feel for this beautiful subject. It is a very worthwhile path and learning the subject will leave you with a sense of fascination, deeper understanding, and fondness of the material world. Perhaps, after you finish the course, you'll start reading some of the chemical names on the back of a shampoo or car liquid? Maybe you'll read one and recognize it as diethylene glycol! Aha! Antifreeze...what a wonderful molecule for my car, but very toxic for me! Or drinking ethyl alcohol will never be the same for you! The study of organic chemistry will nevertheless require much hard work, sacrifice, and thought for it is heavy in its contents, but if you put your mind to it, you will succeed. Welcome to organic chemistry...welcome to life!:love:
Wow, you're passion is admirable. You've motivated me to go study o-chem now :D
 

smq123

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The only reason you probably don't care for the subject is because you're ignorant of what it entails and have no idea of its applications. Organic molecules are of prime importance in all aspects of life...there is almost no other branch of chemistry, i believe, that touches upon every aspect of life the way organic does.
Your enthusiasm frightens me.

I took o. chem. I know what it entails and how it's used. And I still didn't care for it.

That might also explain why I didn't really like pharm during 2nd year of med school either.

Oh well. "Different strokes for different folks."

I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?
I took o. chem a number of years ago. (I have one more year of med school left, yay!) I did think that it was boring and time consuming, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it unbearable.

If you don't think that you'll like physiology, though, then you might be in serious trouble. Most med students at least like the subject of physio - that's kind of what we all came to med school for. Most people also like the study of anatomy, even if some of us despised anatomy lab.

If you don't like o. chem or ecology or whatever, don't worry about it - none of us went to med school because we were in love with o. chem. If you don't like some of the other basic sciences, though, you might be miserable during the first 2 years of med school.
 

Auron

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First of all, do you have any idea what organic chemistry is about? Did you KNOW it is the study of carbon-containing molecules, their electronic properties, reactions, synthesis, and application to biology as well as real life? Be aware that organic chemistry is the very foundation of life itself. If you did not know this, shame on you, young man or woman (lol, i'm 21 and a young man). Before anything, I suggest you do some research into the discipline and try to develop at least an interest in it. The only reason you probably don't care for the subject is because you're ignorant of what it entails and have no idea of its applications. Organic molecules are of prime importance in all aspects of life...there is almost no other branch of chemistry, i believe, that touches upon every aspect of life the way organic does. The entire pharmaceutical industry is based upon the study and discovery of new organic molecules that can be used to treat and even prevent illness. The very foods we eat, from carbohydrates (containing carbon, hydrogen, and other elements), lipids (which have esters that can be hydrolyzed to free fatty acids and thus burned in the body), proteins, nucleic acids, etc... are all composed of carbon. But if you're truly as bitter and uninterested in organic chemistry as you seem, do yourself a favor...do not even use table sugar, which is ORGANIC and has several hydroxyl (OH) groups, in your morning coffee. That makes for an even more bitter experience! :mad: Next time you take a shower and use soap, realize that the soap your'e using is guess what? ALSO composed of organic molecules (long carbon chains with a metal ion such as sodium or potassium) and the soap industry is all based upon a type of reaction called saponification....you learn this in organic 2. If you're a girl or woman, THROW OUT ALL OF YOUR COSMETIC PRODUCTS NOW! For if you are completely uninterested in organic chemistry and say it's so boring, then your cosmetics should be boring as well because GUESS WHAT? THEY TOO ARE ORGANIC MOLECULES! Lipstick, makeup, eyeliner, whatever women use to enhance their beauty are mostly made up of carbon containing molecules. Perfumes as well. The very plastics we use for everyday storage are for all pratical purposes, long monomers of carbon...they're organic polymers! If you drive a car, FORGET about keeping it and just sell it...why are you going to continue spending your money on gasoline? After all, you'd be spending money on hydrocarbons...ah, organic molecules once again! to power your vehicle. And your car's very rubber tires also contain carbon. I guess you mostly dislike yourself as well and think of your body as boring and uninteresting. Do you know why I say this? Yep, you guessed it! That's right, our very bodies, our skin, our muscle tissue, our blood, hair, etc... are composed of organic molecules. The chemical reactions in our body that keep us alive are organic reactions, for the most part. I have said most of these things to open your eyes into what you are missing out. Organic chemistry has played an indispensable role in everyday life and without it, we would be living life as if it were the 12th century. Almost all of the technologies, goods, and services we enjoy would not be possible without organic chemistry. So, use your intuition first and get a feel for this beautiful subject. It is a very worthwhile path and learning the subject will leave you with a sense of fascination, deeper understanding, and fondness of the material world. Perhaps, after you finish the course, you'll start reading some of the chemical names on the back of a shampoo or car liquid? Maybe you'll read one and recognize it as diethylene glycol! Aha! Antifreeze...what a wonderful molecule for my car, but very toxic for me! Or drinking ethyl alcohol will never be the same for you! The study of organic chemistry will nevertheless require much hard work, sacrifice, and thought for it is heavy in its contents, but if you put your mind to it, you will succeed. Welcome to organic chemistry...welcome to life!:love:
good god...you really like o-chem....
 

ineedsleep

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I'm stuck right now. I def. want to be a doctor, but I honestly don't know if I could handle the first two years which are just basically upper level sciences. I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

Also, I was looking at some med school notes/books from my buddies who are in med school..and i don't know if I could handle learning these sciences ...some subjects are interesting but others make me want to pull my hair out...bc I don't care about these subjects.


is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?
If you don't love ochem, it doesn't mean you can't be a doctor. It's just one of the hoops you have to jump through to get into med school. You don't have to love it, just do well in it (hard when you dislike it, but still possible).

First two years are filled with even more science classes. I thought that they were more interesting than ochem for the most part, but some weren't. Medicine is a long series of hoops to jump through. You just have to determine if being a doctor is worth the hoops you have to go through.
 
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PinkKitten

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Why don't you audit a couple? There is no not to do well in these classes if you take advantage of all the resources you have available to you (prof office hours, TA office hours, any tutoring programs offered by the school etc). I know people who had a really tough time with O-chem and still pulled off A's or B's because they put all the effort in. Also, try to not take science classes all together, but maybe 2 a quarter and mix them up with GE's or other classes you enjoy, if this is at all an option for you. But don't go into your science classes with such a negative mindset...just know if you study, you will do well :)
 

kansaskid

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I was really really terrified of ochem...probably because I had heard so many negative horror stories...but I'm taking it now and I actually really like it. It's very intuitive for me and makes way more sense than general chemistry. I'd say just give it a chance and it might not be as scary as you think.

That said, I think a certain amount of scientific interest is going to be important in med school. I don't think I'd be able to stick with some of these classes if I wasn't genuinely interested in the material...but interest does not always equal As...which I'm definitely discovering this semester...
 

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good god...you really like o-chem....
I second that as well. He does have points though. I am a science major and love science and appreciate chemistry, but I am not fond about thinking about doing chemistry much. I don't hate chemistry, but just would not be a chemist in the future.
 

lightthecandle

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Why don't you audit a couple? There is no not to do well in these classes if you take advantage of all the resources you have available to you (prof office hours, TA office hours, any tutoring programs offered by the school etc). I know people who had a really tough time with O-chem and still pulled off A's or B's because they put all the effort in. Also, try to not take science classes all together, but maybe 2 a quarter and mix them up with GE's or other classes you enjoy, if this is at all an option for you. But don't go into your science classes with such a negative mindset...just know if you study, you will do well :)
to op...I don't know about that, I personally I did audit 2 classes, and looked up videos on youtube teaching ochem, but I absolutely detested it, but I would still definitely try to get as much exposure to classes in general..and even med school classes to make a decision..I doubt it could be that bad..just depends on your interests
 

nka1985

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I'm actually finishing up my third year.

I just don't want to take gen chem, or ochem, or physio, or anything like that...i like learning about it in my spare time, but it makes me nervous as hell to take exams on them

Ummm....we've been studying phyio for 3.5 months now...not to mention immunology and histology. If you don't want to physiology, I think you might be going into the wrong profession. Physiology one of the most essential foundations of medicine. An M3 just told us on Friday that we should re-read the entire textbook over summer, because it's critical to our understanding of everything we take second year.

Yeah, O-chem isn't fun. In fact, I hated it. But if you really want to be a doctor you need to take it and work hard at it because it actually has a purpose.

And if taking big tests makes you nervous, you're going to have a really tough time in medical school. I have really big tests every week for the next 5 weeks.
 

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wow, thinking back I really hated orgo. thank god thats over!! :thumbup:
 

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Yeah, O-chem sucked, but it seemed like one of the few classes I took that I actually felt like my work paid off. Many other classes were either rote memorization or memorizing formulas then plug-and-chug. O-chem was at least interesting in that it was skill that had to be developed. Working out those mult-step synthesis problems took a lot of effort, but it was nice to see my grade reflect that effort. Maybe every college doesn't do orgo this way, but I liked the way mine did.
 

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What about the larger philosophical question here...is anything really "for" anyone?
 

misscris

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just wondering, for those of you who have taken ochem already.. which year of your undergrad did you take it? thanks.
 
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What're you talking about? This is how med school will be:

*Moderator's note: image removed; inappropriate language*
memories!!!!!!!!!!! What was the name of that cartoon????????? I had the T-Rex and the Triceratops with the head gear and all the gun mounts!!!
 

riceman04

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just wondering, for those of you who have taken ochem already.. which year of your undergrad did you take it? thanks.
I took it the summer b4 Junior year...best decision I ever made...of course it ruined my summer...but I was not miserable during the school year, unlike alot of my friends who were getting pummeled.
 

WinterLights

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just wondering, for those of you who have taken ochem already.. which year of your undergrad did you take it? thanks.
I took ochem I during my sophomore year, and I am currently taking ochem II (junior year).
 

premedrod

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I'm stuck right now. I def. want to be a doctor, but I honestly don't know if I could handle the first two years which are just basically upper level sciences. I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

Also, I was looking at some med school notes/books from my buddies who are in med school..and i don't know if I could handle learning these sciences ...some subjects are interesting but others make me want to pull my hair out...bc I don't care about these subjects.


is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?

you have no idea how much i thought about that as well. taking enzyme kinetics which had so many ridiculously complicated variables was excruciating for me. last quarter i had to take p chem which was insane with all the quantum mechanics....these classes do not help me become a better doctor so i was upset that i had to take it just for my degree (biochem)...but you gotta look past all these types of classes. i dont think med schools are going to teach you quantum mechanics or ridiculously complicated michaelis menten equations bc how will that make you a better physician? for me...my gpa sucks, but i did well in the classes that dealt with medicine like my biochem class on metabolic pathways...

just dont worry about grades so much...just buckle down for the quarter and get through those classes without failing them...then take a breath, move on bc you're one step closer to the prize. since i'm not the best gpa candidate, i really want to show that i care about people through other activities. in the end, if these activities do not make me an enticing candidate to "them" then maybe medicine isnt the career i'm best for. doctors are much more than just an undergrad gpa.
 

premedrod

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just wondering, for those of you who have taken ochem already.. which year of your undergrad did you take it? thanks.
i took it technically during my summer before junior year.
 

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I'm stuck right now. I def. want to be a doctor, but I honestly don't know if I could handle the first two years which are just basically upper level sciences. I've registered to take Ochem next semester..and you know what? I absolutely do NOT want to take it. it looks ridiculously boring /hard/time consuming/unbearable and I'm completely uninterested in it..so I'm not sure if I could do well in a subject I don't give a damn for.

Also, I was looking at some med school notes/books from my buddies who are in med school..and i don't know if I could handle learning these sciences ...some subjects are interesting but others make me want to pull my hair out...bc I don't care about these subjects.


is this a sign that a career in medicine is not for me?
Yes. At some level you have to be interested in science. there is more to being a doctor than clinical skills. Any old mid-level can just go through the motions checking boxes and trying to fit every patient into a limited number of templates.

Pick a different career.
 

DoctorDreamer

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I seem to see a lot of people questioning their motivation for medicine based on undergrad classes, and here's my $0.02. You don't have to love every class you take, and you'll never see a lot of the material again. You also won't be spending your day to day activities after med school reviewing ochem.

However, medicine is not the right path for those that don't have oodles of work ethic and motivation. If you're gonna cry about OChem or Physics and how you don't care and don't want to take them, that shows a lack of motivation and foresight. If you're too worried you can't handle them, I don't see how in a rat's behind you expect to handle medical school. I hate to break it to you, but these prereqs are going to seem ridiculously easy when you hit real coursework.

My basic opinion is if you want medicine bad enough, OChem won't stand in your way, and if it does, you either don't want it bad enough, or you don't have what it takes, at least right now.
 

PrettyLadyDoc

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Organic is like trying to memorize a popcorn ceiling...

It's next to impossible but it can be done!
 

DoctorRx1986

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I seem to see a lot of people questioning their motivation for medicine based on undergrad classes, and here's my $0.02. You don't have to love every class you take, and you'll never see a lot of the material again. You also won't be spending your day to day activities after med school reviewing ochem.

However, medicine is not the right path for those that don't have oodles of work ethic and motivation. If you're gonna cry about OChem or Physics and how you don't care and don't want to take them, that shows a lack of motivation and foresight. If you're too worried you can't handle them, I don't see how in a rat's behind you expect to handle medical school. I hate to break it to you, but these prereqs are going to seem ridiculously easy when you hit real coursework.

My basic opinion is if you want medicine bad enough, OChem won't stand in your way, and if it does, you either don't want it bad enough, or you don't have what it takes, at least right now.

I never understand why some people say that about how much more difficult the course work in medical school or other professional schools is. From what I've heard, believe it or not, the coursework is professional schools such as medical school is actually EASIER to learn conceptually than many of the abstract concepts of certain courses such as organic chemistry or even physics. In reality, the problem with medical school that probably will make undergrad seem "ridiculously easy" is the volume of content you have to assimilate in a short amount of time. I personally loved organic chemistry with a passion and even my professor stated "This course will probably be one of the most DIFFICULT COURSES YOU'LL TAKE IN YOUR LIFE." Dentists, chiropractors, doctors, pharmacists, etc... tell me the course work in professional school was easier, but just more voluminous....most hated organic chemistry because they truly felt it was more difficult than anything they had seen before.
 

DoctorDreamer

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I never understand why some people say that about how much more difficult the course work in medical school or other professional schools is. From what I've heard, believe it or not, the coursework is professional schools such as medical school is actually EASIER to learn conceptually than many of the abstract concepts of certain courses such as organic chemistry or even physics. In reality, the problem with medical school that probably will make undergrad seem "ridiculously easy" is the volume of content you have to assimilate in a short amount of time. I personally loved organic chemistry with a passion and even my professor stated "This course will probably be one of the most DIFFICULT COURSES YOU'LL TAKE IN YOUR LIFE." Dentists, chiropractors, doctors, pharmacists, etc... tell me the course work in professional school was easier, but just more voluminous....most hated organic chemistry because they truly felt it was more difficult than anything they had seen before.
I personally thought OChem was fun, interesting, and non-difficult, but I understand it isn't easy for everyone. I, however, don't know a single person who has said med school was easy. I'm not talking about the difficulty of concepts, but the overall difficulty of the classes. Med school will be harder than ochem for 99.9% of people... I'd bet on it, and I'm not a better.

And my point was, if you can't work hard enough, or won't, to make it through ochem, how do you expect to have the motivation and work-ethic when it comes down to memorizing the enormous amount of information thrown at you every day in med school?
 

nka1985

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I personally thought OChem was fun, interesting, and non-difficult, but I understand it isn't easy for everyone. I, however, don't know a single person who has said med school was easy. I'm not talking about the difficulty of concepts, but the overall difficulty of the classes. Med school will be harder than ochem for 99.9% of people... I'd bet on it, and I'm not a better.

And my point was, if you can't work hard enough, or won't, to make it through ochem, how do you expect to have the motivation and work-ethic when it comes down to memorizing the enormous amount of information thrown at you every day in med school?
The only way that med school is "easier" is that many of the concepts you study (at least in first year) are things you might have seen before. For example, I'd taken quite a few physiology courses prior to medical school which means that some of the basics in medical school are a review. In med school, however, physio is more difficult because you are taught more in depth on many of the subjects, at a much faster pace, and need to integrate both pathophysiology and other organ systems into picture.

I will agree that the volume of course work is quite a challenge. We've been taking intense physio since Christmas break while juggling 2-3 other classes at any given time. Two weeks of med school feel like 1 quarter/semester of undergrad...which means that our tests every 2 weeks feel like taking finals every 2 weeks.
 

katarzyna

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I took this from another thread.

"I want the MD for the knowledge and the degree, but I don't give two shits about being a clinician or being subject to clueless hospital administration or submissive to insurance companies or hiring professionally trained game-players (coding/billing professionals) just to get any semblance of reimbursement.

Any construct that becomes a system must be destroyed. Thousands of people died for freedom; why are doctors such big ******* on both Capitol Hill as well as in residency programs? Rigidity is for fucking robots, not humans. Structure is for fucking doormats. Is morale and self-esteem that low that change cannot be made? That doesn't fly well with me. Unacceptable.

And besides, clinicans only make low to mid six figures, and they have a decade's delay of practically zero income and a growing negative net worth. I would imagine that if you run the numbers and presume one finishes training at age 35 with 250K in the hole and... I dunno, 80K in assets and grossing 200K/year, that it would take until what, late 40's/early 50's before breaking 1M? Uhhh, what? Oh, and think of the toll on your spouse and your children -- not being there for them for a good 4-10 years. And then possibly taking call for the next 10 years. So when does the deferred gratification actually bear fruit? When you're fucking 70 years old and finally retire?

http://www.freshminds.com/animation/...atts_life.html

Life isn't just a means to an end but a song that must be danced to and enjoyed along the way. There's only so much deferred gratification one can take before one snaps and either violently breaks inanimate objects or develops premature heart dz. Or gets into a permanently disabling car accident secondary to microsleeping for 8 seconds behind the wheel and not realizing it.

I'm only pissed off because I haven't slept since Monday and I'm [finally!] starting to hallucinate a la the opening scene to Fight Club where there's artifacts and motion blurs and visual deja vu (yay! how fun!), and I think today is Thursday, and I don't for the life of me see how physicians can tolerate working 7 days/week or working 40 consecutive hours and still be able to perform so that they don't kill their last 25% of patients for that day. I often think about why at least 1/3 of the attendings I converse with are douchebags, and maybe this is a chicken-and-egg phenomenon (did medicine make this person from a loving, empathic, helpful person into an asshole or were they already an asshole to begin with and was simply drawn to medicine? Which came first? I see correlation, but what about causality?) or maybe it's because these attendings are in so much mental and emotional anguish after being fed the lie that medicine is glamorous, only to find out that it has completely raped their brains and dissolved their souls over the past decade of training, leaving only a robotic automaton of an empty shell just counting down the hours/cases until he/she can go home and turn one's brain off and have a glass or two or three or four of wine or single-malt scotch. I know for a fact that my personality is completely different when I'm tired, so maybe I am falsely judging these attendings for their arrogance and douchebaggery, or maybe there simply are arrogant douchebags in medicine and sleep deprivation has nothing to do with it? I dunno. I'm rambling.

There's got to be some honest-to-Gawd niche in medicine: something for everyone. Because I can totally picture the scenario that the OP is frustrated about quite easily: repetition, cookie-cutter time deadlines for pts (when the "true art" of medicine demands no such deadlines), bullshit CYA defensive medicine orders/tests/procedures/imaging/whatever just to save both your ass as well as your partners, mid/ancillary staff, the administration, and the hospital's collective asses when you get sued by some completely greedy fuckmonkey when it is truly, genuinely not your mistake that the mishap is attributable, but simply the fact that human bodies are designed to die or break down anyways and the physician was simply present so what better scapegoat? Lovely. (Disclaimer: not talking about genuine fuck-ups here but mainly bullshit ____ lawsuits (what's the word I'm thinking of?) )

I'm too young and not even into any training whatsoever to be this cynical, but I have high expectations for careers, and if there is no satisfaction, then that seems like a waste of time and energy when one could have been making memories and singing and dancing along the journey of life all along. Trail blazing one's own destiny rather than putting your feet in the proverbial footprints that the AAMC or AMA have already molded out for you to follow to the T. Uh, what? Who the hell wants to be a follower? Who the hell wants to be just like thousands of other people in your career?

I think I'll go take a nap under my desk now. I'll set my alarm for lunch."

i would agree with this, i guess... though enrages me all the more on how the world just have such a low morale... :boom:
----

JA Prufrock:

For what it's worth, ochem is actually pretty fun. A whole lot more intuitive than gen chem, and none of that annoying math.
Ochem? no math? really? or less math?
 

notdeadyet

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Did you KNOW it is the study of carbon-containing molecules, their electronic properties, reactions, synthesis, and application to biology as well as real life? Be aware that organic chemistry is the very foundation of life itself. If you did not know this, shame on you, young man or woman (lol, i'm 21 and a young man).
The amount of organic chemistry you will need in medical school can be learned in a matter of hours.

Glad you like OChem. I liked it too. But right or wrong, you'll use very, very little of it in medical school. It's just barely more applicable than physics.
 

notdeadyet

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I just don't want to take gen chem, or ochem, or physio, or anything like that...i like learning about it in my spare time, but it makes me nervous as hell to take exams on them
Then what about the science of medicine interests you? It ain't all bio...

I'd think long and hard and careful before rushing down the medicine path. Once you start medical school and take out big loans, it's very hard to walk away. Lots of folks rush into medicine and decide halfway through that they don't really love it, but are too much in the hole to leave. So they plod along and finish their degree and residency, practicing in a field they don't really care for. These are many of the bitter, a$$hole physicians you come across who are projecting that they are unhappy with their path in life and try to convince others, "Don't go into medicine. It's a mistake."

You won't get the answer on an Internet forum, but think carefully about this one.
 

notdeadyet

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If you're too worried you can't handle them, I don't see how in a rat's behind you expect to handle medical school. I hate to break it to you, but these prereqs are going to seem ridiculously easy when you hit real coursework.
Where are you getting this from? Talk to more medical students. You'll find that most will tell you that the coursework in medical school is at the same level or even easier than undergrad science courses.

The volume is a huge challenge, but the coursework? Nah. It's more of the same as in undergrad. Most folks feel it's even easier.

No need to go scaring people unnecessarily...
 

DoctorDreamer

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Where are you getting this from? Talk to more medical students. You'll find that most will tell you that the coursework in medical school is at the same level or even easier than undergrad science courses.

The volume is a huge challenge, but the coursework? Nah. It's more of the same as in undergrad. Most folks feel it's even easier.

No need to go scaring people unnecessarily...
Read my above post... I said med school is harder, not necessarily in the concepts, but in the volume of what you have to know. Difficulty comes in many forms.

Every med student I've talked to seems to think med school was a real academic wake-up call.
 

ineedsleep

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Taking Ochem during the summer is a good option. Now that I think about it (I try and block that class out) I took both semesters after my freshman year. It was a painful summer that seemed years longer than 10 weeks, but it made the rest of the year better.

I guess looking at the big picture a like of science is probably necessary to enjoy/stand medicine. I liked learning about the human body for the most part (I despise the kidneys, but that's another story). I guess the OP probably needs to think about why they want to go into medicine and is it worth it to them.

As for volume in med school courses I always thought the phrase-it's like drinking from a fire hose-was appropriate. Same water as you've been drinking before, just a whole heck a of a lot more coming at you pretty fast.
 

pride4jc727

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Nope, medicine is for me, end of story.
 
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