Anyone else finding medicine a little more "touchy feely" than they expected

[Trail Boss]

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I don't know about other people, but I like chemistry, I like organic chemistry I loved phsyiology. I avoided psyc like the plague because I think it is a load of crap. I wanted to go the med school because I like blood, I like thinks that are broken which I can fix, I like solving problems and being good at my job. I care about people in perhaps too abstract a sense, I know medicine helps them and that makes me feel good, but that is not really what makes me study 30 hrs a weekend. My drive and interest benefits people, so yay for them. I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel". I don't know why I need to act caring to prove that I am caring. Isn't enough that I am torturing myself through college, med school, residency? The best answer anyone seems to have is that being nice avoids lawsuits. Is that really what this has all boiled down to? I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine? I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself" I f-ing hurts, now do your job, give me my drugs, and let me go home.

 

[MahSpoon]

So much for treating the patient and not the symptoms

 

[Arctic Char]

well, try to keep in mind that when you are on the wards, around people who are ill and in need of help, and around teams of equally educated people, it is not about you. its not about whether you are happy, or excited, or interested or fulfilled . . . no one gives a rats ass how much school you've had, how hard you studied for your boards, etc etc. because every other doctor has endured the same torture over the years, and the good ones are the ones who are still able to wear a smile - or at least a remnant of human-like character - on their face AND keep up a an efficient work pace without dragging everyone else into their gloom. dealing with egotistical p***ks is one of the lame aspects of medicine, its just as annoying and taxing on everyone else as the over cheery, pom pom peace corps rainbows and unicorns people.

always remember that a patient will NEVER thank you for being smart. you are supposed to be smart. they will, however, thank you for being warm, caring and honest.

i understand what you are talking about though. i've been knocked for not being more "empathetic" in mock interviews. and it gets annoying to have to ask questions that are unnecessary for a diagnosis, or ingenuine to begin with. but in the end, if there is a problem with the interview -i have to ask myself "who's problem is it?" is it my problem, or is it the patient's problem? if it is my problem, i will do what i can to not do it again. and if that means the small price of acting like i care, i'm willing to pay it if it makes my life easier, and the patient's experience of medical care more palatable.

 

[zenman]

they will, however, thank you for being warm, caring and honest.

Very good. And this will help them heal even if you can't cure them.🙂

 

[Arctic Char]

in addition - i will put it this way: medicine is a service (as it should be veiwed from a public policy perspective as well). as a doctor you are a service provider. you can either provide a good service, a merely adequate service, or a bad service. nevermind what you think about the service, because again, its not about you. first of all, make sure you are operating according to the standards of the profession. THEN go for the gold and make the patient feel comfortable (if possible). otherwise, you are only adequate . . .

of course, what field you are in can change the scenario a bit. but so long as patients are involved, it is their assessment that matters. all the technical aspects are EXPECTED of you.

 

[Dookter]

I think you also have to remember that you don't actually ask, "How does that infected cut make you feel?" If someone has been bedridden for a while, you ask them how they're dealing with it, about their support system, etc. You might give a few words about how what they're dealing with is really quite a lot. We do have to learn to show empathy, but I think people have this image in their head about doctors asking how everything [no matter what it is] makes the patient feel. It doesn't exactly go down in those exact words most of the time. Sometimes it will, but for things like a sore throat, not so much.

 

[Gut Shot]

I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself"

Don't worry, nobody actually behaves like this in practice.

Except perhaps the pediatric oncologists.

Foundational education essentially amounts to inundation with cherry-picked information and contrived scenarios. My M1 biochem course didn't make me a biochemist, and it wasn't supposed to. It was just intended to efficiently push a bolus of information into my skull for later recall (so I can someday nail that diagnosis of pellagra). Medicine doesn't revolve around biochemistry, and it doesn't revolve around the touchie-feelies, but they are both relevant at times.

 

[Arctic Char]

true, some things in medicine can be handled with minimal "empathy" or concern for the psychological comfort of the patient. sometimes its just time to get the job done. but, i cannot over-emphasize the following point: when you are a patient - an inpatient - having someone ask you how you're feeling makes all the difference in the world. its extremely lonely being a patient and it can easily - in fact medically lead to depression. then you have something else to add to the patient's chart . . . and your workload. but the connection is there, check the literature. if you think depression is the patient's fault, or that they simply aren't "tough enough", you are not only a selfish p***k, you are an uninformed student, a bad scientist, and a lousy physician. i'm not actually accusing anyone on this thread of this, i'm just stating the point.

if you haven't ever been hospitalized, it will take a lot more to conceptualize the importance of empathy. forgive the subjective point here, but i've been hospitalized a few times, and man i can remember every last nurse or doctor that gave me the time of day. when they give you attention, in your state of ultimate vulnerability and desperation, it changes everything. i was convinced that nurses were angels incarnate - but in reality, they didn't do much. it was just because they demonstrated that they were there for me. i couldn't care less how someone drew my blood, what time they served lunch, or how they infused drug X . . . but if they did it while looking at me, asking how i feel, it was a remarkable event. and when they looked miserable doing it, or didn't talk to me or whatever, it felt like ****.

 

[78222]

Watch out, the empathy squad is going to jump you soon.

 

[8744]

Watch out, the empathy squad is going to jump you soon.

Yeah, but I own the empathy squad. They are my biaches. I backhand them every now and then and they cry but they go out and shake their thang' for me just the same.

 

[Law2Doc]

Don't worry, nobody actually behaves like this in practice.

Yet... Give it time. A lot of this focus (patient's rights, empathy, etc) only really began in earnest a few years back, and the folks trained under the old regime haven't retired yet. Expect medicine to evolve in the direction med schools are grooming it to.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine?

The profession has been moving in this direction for a number of years. Hence the number of nonsci majors, nontrads being admitted, hence the introduction of clinical exposure earlier in med school, hence added empathy emphasis. Patients now have "rights", and the medical profession has embraced the role of being a (customer) service industry. Not only might you minimize lawsuits, but also often get better histories, and have an easier time screening for depression and psych issues if you can befriend the patient and get him to open up. It isn't the same medicine of a few decades back, because there was a great sentiment that medicine of a few decades back was not the ideal.
While I wouldn't be the one to say you shouldn't have gone into medicine if you don't like these notions, I will say that these things were out there to see for quite a while now, and so it sounds like you didn't do as good a job of researching the field into which you were going as you might. See if you can reconcile you image of what medicine actually is and what you thought it was. If you cannot see yourself as happy in the profession as it actually is going to be when you hit the wards, then you may need to consider other avenues.

 

[psipsina]

I was a neuroscience major in undergrad and we were taught that the CNS, the endocrine system and the immune system are all intimately linked, and that if something is out of balance in one, or is changed in one, it always affects the other two. The touchy feely stuff helps you identify possible psych stuff, which is often a sign of a biochemical change in the CNS which in turn can effect both the endocrine and immunes systems which are definitely our realm as docs. Why do patients get depressed/suicidal/homicidal on infergens, no one knows the pathway yet but you have to watch for it. You have to be connected enough that your patient will tell you that they had an urge to kill themself today, because if the drugs you gave them for their hepC make them kill themselves thats not really good medicine right? Thats just one of many examples, but the point is that there are real science reasons to need a window into whats going on in a patient's head.

 

[dutchman]

Pathology

 

[NonTradMed]

Surgeons dont' have to be too touchy-feely with their patients...most of the time, they just cut them up! A good friend of mine is like that. She went into med school for the science and although I'm sure she can 'fake' her way into being a caring, empathetic doctor, she does not like it. She matched into surgery. From what I've been told, doctors used to be paternalistic and very "do this because I said so and I know better" in their treatment of patients. The shift is to approaching your patients with a less snotty approach, and oh yeah, make your patients want to more easily open up to you for history taking etc if you are not so brusque.

FWIW, my mom have stayed with the same family doc for the last couple of eyars now after changing docs three times initially because she didn't find one that treated her well (aka had good bedside manners). So the moral of the story is, you can do whatever you want after you leave residency but your patients will vote with their feet if they don't like you.

 

[Gut Shot]

Yet... Give it time. A lot of this focus (patient's rights, empathy, etc) only really began in earnest a few years back, and the folks trained under the old regime haven't retired yet. Expect medicine to evolve in the direction med schools are grooming it to.

Perhaps it will evolve in that direction, but let's be realistic. No one in practice is going to ask their patients how their strep throat makes them feel. I'm sorry, it just doesn't happen, and it's not about to start.

I think this is really more about the push away from paternalistic medicine, which has been going on for more than a few years.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the younger generation of attendings and residents isn't exactly the gooiest bunch of people. We might be more aware aware of the "softer side" of things, but that's not going to turn medicine into a chick flick. Look at Panda, for instance. A year of this crap at Duke and he's still the fine bastard we all know and love.

 

[Law2Doc]

Surgeons dont' have to be too touchy-feely with their patients...most of the time, they just cut them up!

Actually the surgeons I know spend a lot of time talking with the patients. These are the doctors on the front line in terms of lawsuits, so making sure the patient understands the risks and is comfortable and confident in the doctor and what s/he is going to do is not trivial. And you don't really want to learn during surgery that a paient had certain risk or complicating factors s/he could have given you clues to from a better history, had you taken the time.

 

[Law2Doc]

Look at Panda, for instance. A year of this crap at Duke and he's still the fine bastard we all know and love.

Panda represents one sector, but I have personally seen residents and attendings at the other extreme. One guy I worked with on a clinical research project used to go back and visit patients in his spare time.

 

[sirus_virus]

I don't know about other people, but I like chemistry, I like organic chemistry I loved phsyiology. I avoided psyc like the plague because I think it is a load of crap. I wanted to go the med school because I like blood, I like thinks that are broken which I can fix, I like solving problems and being good at my job. I care about people in perhaps too abstract a sense, I know medicine helps them and that makes me feel good, but that is not really what makes me study 30 hrs a weekend. My drive and interest benefits people, so yay for them. I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel". I don't know why I need to act caring to prove that I am caring. Isn't enough that I am torturing myself through college, med school, residency? The best answer anyone seems to have is that being nice avoids lawsuits. Is that really what this has all boiled down to? I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine? I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself" I f-ing hurts, now do your job, give me my drugs, and let me go home.

In this society "people skills" is a must if you plan on having any remote success in any service based trade(which is exactly what medicine is).

BTW if you plan on being married or staying married you better get used to "pretending you care".

 

[cfdavid]

I don't know about other people, but I like chemistry, I like organic chemistry I loved phsyiology. I avoided psyc like the plague because I think it is a load of crap. I wanted to go the med school because I like blood, I like thinks that are broken which I can fix, I like solving problems and being good at my job. I care about people in perhaps too abstract a sense, I know medicine helps them and that makes me feel good, but that is not really what makes me study 30 hrs a weekend. My drive and interest benefits people, so yay for them. I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel". I don't know why I need to act caring to prove that I am caring. Isn't enough that I am torturing myself through college, med school, residency? The best answer anyone seems to have is that being nice avoids lawsuits. Is that really what this has all boiled down to? I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine? I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself" I f-ing hurts, now do your job, give me my drugs, and let me go home.

Keep in mind that it's just part of the process of training. When you're on your own, you can practice according to your unique personality. Then, you'll see what works best and will perhaps temper your approach accordingly.

Also, not every specialty is as "touchy feely". Perhaps longer continuity of care type specialties may not be for you. But, that leaves you with many other options.

I personally believe that those motivated towards medicine for reasons that you've suggested are those most likely to experience more job satisfaction and less burnout or disenchantment with what medicine will give back to them. Because, you WILL be able to use science in order to solve clinical problems, as well as use technical skills to fix things.

So, the bottom line is to stay the course. Try to keep an open mind. Who knows, it could round you out a bit. But, realize that you'll be in charge of how you practice when your training is done. So, no worries.

Also, for practical (even somewhat selfish) reasons, remember that you'll always catch more bees with honey than with salt. So, it's not all BS, and the liability issue is a very compelling reason to come off as a likeable, approachable, and caring physician. But, nobody's saying you have to give your construction worker patients a hug before they leave your office.... lol You're correct in that most people DO simply want a competent doctor that is capable of solving their problem. So, I think you'll do just fine dude.

 

[Arctic Char]

you reminded me of a hilarious story. i read this in reader's digest a while back:

Bill Murray (the actor), is notoriously bad with fans. he hates signing autographs, and has a reputation for being short and abrasive. anyway, this waitress asks for his autograph while he is eating. he rudely shooed her away.

minutes later, she musters up the courage to go back to him, and she says "you know, you catch more flys with honey . . . "

his reply: Who . . . wants . . . flys?

gotta love that man

 

[Law2Doc]

But, realize that you'll be in charge of how you practice when your training is done. So, no worries.

I haven't looked at the numbers but suspect it is a very small distinct minority who actually practices on their own, so most of us will have bosses who dictate how we ought to practice. And in the patient driven insurance reimbursement system we operate under, patient feedback matters in the hospital and HMO settings. Expect to have to be perceived by patients as providing good service to do well in many specialties, regardless of your actual technical proficiency.

 

[emtji]

so i helped teach one of the touchy feely interviewing classes for the first years and the conclusion for why we thought this was important is...

you're not going to like all of the patients that you come across. believe it or not, not everyone you meet on the wards or in the ED is a mid-twenties ivy graduate interested in medicine and smart people. or a good conversationalist. in fact, a good portion of the people you meet will be old people who aren't necessarily happy to be in the hospital and won't be nice to you. so it behooves you as a future physician to learn how to show empathy even if, deep down, you wish the patient were dead. why? because if you can attract patients you don't like to your practice, you will be more successful and make more money. and don't forget, learning how to pretend to be nicer than you actually are will also help if you're dealing with other physicians. alot of your classmates have the personalities of goats. and it helps senior year, when you're interviewing for residency slots, where you have to come across as sincere, even to the program that will be last on your list because you were worried you were going to get shot walking from the subway to the hospital.

you don't have to be nice to act nice.

 

[Gut Shot]

I haven't looked at the numbers but suspect it is a very small distinct minority who actually practices on their own, so most of us will have bosses who dictate how we ought to practice. And in the patient driven insurance reimbursement system we operate under, patient feedback matters in the hospital and HMO settings. Expect to have to be perceived by patients as providing good service to do well in many specialties, regardless of your actual technical proficiency.

I like you, man, but you've waaaaaaaaay overshot this one.

 

[DrZeke]

so i helped teach one of the touchy feely interviewing classes for the first years and the conclusion for why we thought this was important is...

you're not going to like all of the patients that you come across. believe it or not, not everyone you meet on the wards or in the ED is a mid-twenties ivy graduate interested in medicine and smart people. or a good conversationalist. in fact, a good portion of the people you meet will be old people who aren't necessarily happy to be in the hospital and won't be nice to you. so it behooves you as a future physician to learn how to show empathy even if, deep down, you wish the patient were dead. why? because if you can attract patients you don't like to your practice, you will be more successful and make more money. and don't forget, learning how to pretend to be nicer than you actually are will also help if you're dealing with other physicians. alot of your classmates have the personalities of goats. and it helps senior year, when you're interviewing for residency slots, where you have to come across as sincere, even to the program that will be last on your list because you were worried you were going to get shot walking from the subway to the hospital.

you don't have to be nice to act nice.

Awesome post, I agree 100%, even though I like to think I'm nice

Hilarious...

 

[Law2Doc]

I like you, man, but you've waaaaaaaaay overshot this one.

I don't think so. I'm coming from another service providing industry, and I think some of you guys are underestimating the value and importance of customer perception.

 

[8744]

Perhaps it will evolve in that direction, but let's be realistic. No one in practice is going to ask their patients how their strep throat makes them feel. I'm sorry, it just doesn't happen, and it's not about to start.

I think this is really more about the push away from paternalistic medicine, which has been going on for more than a few years.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the younger generation of attendings and residents isn't exactly the gooiest bunch of people. We might be more aware aware of the "softer side" of things, but that's not going to turn medicine into a chick flick. Look at Panda, for instance. A year of this crap at Duke and he's still the fine bastard we all know and love.

I am a cynical dog from way, way back. The ironic thing is that for all of my lack of emapthy ability, my patients really like me and I often hear some variation of, "You are the best doctor I ever had."

I think we can all agree that it's not empathy most of us object too, it's the smarmy, patronizing excuse for empathy which is taught in medical schools as well as the premise that empathy can be taught. If you don't have a basic core of decency, the ability to imagine yourself in the same straits as your patient, then empathy training is nothing more than a drama course where you learn to fake it. If you have a core of decency the training is a waste becuase you don't need it.

I loved all of that empathy and diversity crap in medical school because it was a nice break from the real studying. But that's because I'm lazy. The time would be better spent learning something useful.

I also want to point out that like any orthodoxy, the Empathy Cult will be rejected as the inflexible dogma it really is, both because its precepts cannot withstand reality and because people are naturally rebelious and hate being told what to do.

Look for the medical profession to get less, not more smarmy.

 

[Law2Doc]

Look for the medical profession to get less, not more smarmy.

I'm not sure I'd call having medicine focused on the patient rather than the doctor smarmy.
I think things get taught in the extreme, over the top, in your face kind of way but then in practice take a much more toned down approach. But the more you teach it, the more it works its way in. It starts with one or two med students adopting it. Then they serve as role models for others. I wouldn't expect it to go by the wayside unless it proves not to get the job done.

 

[cfdavid]

I haven't looked at the numbers but suspect it is a very small distinct minority who actually practices on their own, so most of us will have bosses who dictate how we ought to practice. And in the patient driven insurance reimbursement system we operate under, patient feedback matters in the hospital and HMO settings. Expect to have to be perceived by patients as providing good service to do well in many specialties, regardless of your actual technical proficiency.

Sure, customer service is huge. But, the point is that there are many different facets of providing quality (or the perception of) patient care. And, while bedside manner is very big on the list of most peoples' wish list, over-the-top "touchy feeliness" could actually give people the creeps...lol

 

[cfdavid]

you reminded me of a hilarious story. i read this in reader's digest a while back:

Bill Murray (the actor), is notoriously bad with fans. he hates signing autographs, and has a reputation for being short and abrasive. anyway, this waitress asks for his autograph while he is eating. he rudely shooed her away.

minutes later, she musters up the courage to go back to him, and she says "you know, you catch more flys with honey . . . "

his reply: Who . . . wants . . . flys?

gotta love that man

or bees for that matter. lol

 

[cfdavid]

I am a cynical dog from way, way back. The ironic thing is that for all of my lack of emapthy ability, my patients really like me and I often hear some variation of, "You are the best doctor I ever had."

I think we can all agree that it's not empathy most of us object too, it's the smarmy, patronizing excuse for empathy which is taught in medical schools as well as the premise that empathy can be taught. If you don't have a basic core of decency, the ability to imagine yourself in the same straits as your patient, then empathy training is nothing more than a drama course where you learn to fake it. If you have a core of decency the training is a waste becuase you don't need it.

I loved all of that empathy and diversity crap in medical school because it was a nice break from the real studying. But that's because I'm lazy. The time would be better spent learning something useful.

I also want to point out that like any orthodoxy, the Empathy Cult will be rejected as the inflexible dogma it really is, both because its precepts cannot withstand reality and because people are naturally rebelious and hate being told what to do.

Look for the medical profession to get less, not more smarmy.

Very well stated. And i think it gets to the root of the OP's issue.

 

[dilated]

I haven't looked at the numbers but suspect it is a very small distinct minority who actually practices on their own, so most of us will have bosses who dictate how we ought to practice. And in the patient driven insurance reimbursement system we operate under, patient feedback matters in the hospital and HMO settings. Expect to have to be perceived by patients as providing good service to do well in many specialties, regardless of your actual technical proficiency.

I think this is greatly overstating matters. Whether it's good or bad, there are more jobs than physicians in almost every specialty and quite frequently more patients than physicians to see them. You can be the worst derm in town and still have a 3 month waiting list here (in fact, he does), and that goes equally for a lot of other specialties. Even for specialties with less of a shortage, the effort of finding (bribing) a new physician to replace one whose patient empathy scores just aren't cutting the mustard doesn't seem too likely. And if the claims of a doctor shortage are true this will only get worse with our generation.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think this is greatly overstating matters. Whether it's good or bad, there are more jobs than physicians in almost every specialty and quite frequently more patients than physicians to see them. You can be the worst derm in town and still have a 3 month waiting list here (in fact, he does), and that goes equally for a lot of other specialties. Even for specialties with less of a shortage, the effort of finding (bribing) a new physician to replace one whose patient empathy scores just aren't cutting the mustard doesn't seem too likely. And if the claims of a doctor shortage are true this will only get worse with our generation.

While it is certainly a good market for getting a job in medicine, for any desirable position there will still be competition, and what people think about you will matter. Your supervisors will certainly factor patient compliments and complaints into their evaluations of you.
But if you are saying that you can be a poorly liked doctor "someplace", if you totally don't care where or what you will be doing, then sure, that's probably true.

 

[zenman]

If you want to learn how to do with patients ...and you have a wisea** sense of humor, you should get this book...it's so funny you'll laugh till you cry. It's helped me get through to those difficult patients...

"Yes, I did call you a drug addict."

"No, I'm not!"

"Yes, you are."

"No!"

"Are too!"

"No!

"In fact, you're the worse addict I've seen in a long time. I guess in 80 years, you've had a lot of practice....😀

http://www.provocativetherapy.com/

 

[riceman04]

I don't know about other people, but I like chemistry, I like organic chemistry I loved phsyiology. I avoided psyc like the plague because I think it is a load of crap. I wanted to go the med school because I like blood, I like thinks that are broken which I can fix, I like solving problems and being good at my job. I care about people in perhaps too abstract a sense, I know medicine helps them and that makes me feel good, but that is not really what makes me study 30 hrs a weekend. My drive and interest benefits people, so yay for them. I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel". I don't know why I need to act caring to prove that I am caring. Isn't enough that I am torturing myself through college, med school, residency? The best answer anyone seems to have is that being nice avoids lawsuits. Is that really what this has all boiled down to? I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine? I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself" I f-ing hurts, now do your job, give me my drugs, and let me go home.

ladies and gentleman...scientology in action!!!!!

 

[PsyberOz]

Traill Boss sounds a bit adolescent - but career options include Orthopaedic Surgeon, Pathologist, or pure science. I knew a guy from LA who had a Ph.D. in Biochemistry who did Med in Oz - where they would let im into Med School, but they still made him do remedial training in Human Relationships before letting him graduate.

His teenage nephews used to say, "I think Uncle M.... has recently read a book on 'How to Have a Personality' he just tried to talk to me!"

In Oz there is a lot more solo private practice - you'd soon go bust if you couldn't relate to people - just telling them you are God and they should be grateful that you deign to cure them doesn't wash!

 

[Trail Boss]

ladies and gentleman...scientology in action!!!!!

What does this have to do with scientology? It was an honest question, and I think a fair number of people share, or at least understand my sentiment.

 

[Trail Boss]

Traill Boss sounds a bit adolescent - but career options include Orthopaedic Surgeon, Pathologist, or pure science. I knew a guy from LA who had a Ph.D. in Biochemistry who did Med in Oz - where they would let im into Med School, but they still made him do remedial training in Human Relationships before letting him graduate.

His teenage nephews used to say, "I think Uncle M.... has recently read a book on 'How to Have a Personality' he just tried to talk to me!"

In Oz there is a lot more solo private practice - you'd soon go bust if you couldn't relate to people - just telling them you are God and they should be grateful that you deign to cure them doesn't wash!

Very intelligent reply. I'm not bad a realting to people, in fact I do well with patients. I just disagree that I should have to ACT more compassionate than I am. When something illicts an empathetic response, I share it with my patients. I just that that is fake to act like a drama queen every time I see a patient. I hate seeing doctors like that, I don't know why they insist we become them. I don't think I am the only one who finds overly emotional doctors silly. If something traumatic happens that they are there for, I expect it to illict an emotional response--just as it does from me. If they tell me that there father died of heart disease ten years ago when I collecting a medical history I don't think I should have to ask them about their feelings. I know how it feels. I'm human, but I am not an actor. I'm not sure how having a discussion over this very important issue makes me adolescent. But then again, I have more than a few classmates that have bought into this crap hook line and sinker and think that connecting with patients is the most important goal of being a physician. I disagree. I expect them to do their job first, a secondary goal is to act as human as possible while doing it.

 

[PsyberOz]

Very intelligent reply. I'm not bad a realting to people, in fact I do well with patients. I just disagree that I should have to ACT more compassionate than I am. When something illicts an empathetic response, I share it with my patients. I just that that is fake to act like a drama queen every time I see a patient. I hate seeing doctors like that, I don't know why they insist we become them. I don't think I am the only one who finds overly emotional doctors silly. If something traumatic happens that they are there for, I expect it to illict an emotional response--just as it does from me. If they tell me that there father died of heart disease ten years ago when I collecting a medical history I don't think I should have to ask them about their feelings. I know how it feels. I'm human, but I am not an actor. I'm not sure how having a discussion over this very important issue makes me adolescent. But then again, I have more than a few classmates that have bought into this crap hook line and sinker and think that connecting with patients is the most important goal of being a physician. I disagree. I expect them to do their job first, a secondary goal is to act as human as possible while doing it.

Perhaps politcal correctness is more rampant there than here - I do remember an LA trained Social Worker I knew here who seemed a bit over the top, and a Chicago trained Anthropologist who was inclined to tell people they were racist if race as a differentiating factor was even raised for consideration.

 

[Gut Shot]

I don't think so. I'm coming from another service providing industry, and I think some of you guys are underestimating the value and importance of customer perception.

That's not what I was referring to. Let's recap (I'll do the cuttin' and a pastin'):

I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel".

My answer: Don't sweat it just yet. Touchy feely stuff does come up in practice, but it's not the contrived, cornball variety that we're exposed to in the first half of medical school.

Your answer(s):

The profession has been moving in this direction for a number of years. Hence the number of nonsci majors, nontrads being admitted, hence the introduction of clinical exposure earlier in med school, hence added empathy emphasis. Patients now have "rights", and the medical profession has embraced the role of being a (customer) service industry. Not only might you minimize lawsuits, but also often get better histories, and have an easier time screening for depression and psych issues if you can befriend the patient and get him to open up. It isn't the same medicine of a few decades back, because there was a great sentiment that medicine of a few decades back was not the ideal.
While I wouldn't be the one to say you shouldn't have gone into medicine if you don't like these notions, I will say that these things were out there to see for quite a while now, and so it sounds like you didn't do as good a job of researching the field into which you were going as you might. See if you can reconcile you image of what medicine actually is and what you thought it was. If you cannot see yourself as happy in the profession as it actually is going to be when you hit the wards, then you may need to consider other avenues.

 

[Law2Doc]

That's not what I was referring to. Let's recap (I'll do the cuttin' and a pastin'):



My answer: Don't sweat it just yet. Touchy feely stuff does come up in practice, but it's not the contrived, cornball variety that we're exposed to in the first half of medical school.

Your answer(s):

Now I'm confused. I think we are more or less on the same page?

 

[Gut Shot]

Now I'm confused. I think we are more or less on the same page?

This thread (and those of the same ilk) end up in a lot of people talking past each other. I don't think any reasonable person would doubt that medicine has become more of a customer-oriented service industry, although there are wildly different views on what constitutes good customer service (which touches on the inherent value of touchy feeliness, and has generated most of the discussion here). The original post seemed to be expressing anxiety over whether medicine is as touchy feely as it may be portrayed early in med school. The answer is simple: no.

The bottom line here, or rather my interpretation of it, is Trail Boss can be reassured that M1 and M2 years don't resemble M3+ years in many respects.

 

[dutchman]

I don't know about other people, but I like chemistry, I like organic chemistry I loved phsyiology. I avoided psyc like the plague because I think it is a load of crap. I wanted to go the med school because I like blood, I like thinks that are broken which I can fix, I like solving problems and being good at my job. I care about people in perhaps too abstract a sense, I know medicine helps them and that makes me feel good, but that is not really what makes me study 30 hrs a weekend. My drive and interest benefits people, so yay for them. I am becoming more and more depressed that I have to act super empathetic and ask everyone how that "makes you feel". I don't know why I need to act caring to prove that I am caring. Isn't enough that I am torturing myself through college, med school, residency? The best answer anyone seems to have is that being nice avoids lawsuits. Is that really what this has all boiled down to? I think counseling and touch feely stuff is important, very important but I think these things should rightfully be the role of the priest, minister, counselor, your spouse or your cat. I just want to give stitches, drugs and cover things in plaster. Does this mean I shouldn't have gone into medicine? I don't know, I would rather have me as a doctor than someone who annoys me with the "and how does your strep throat make you feel about yourself" I f-ing hurts, now do your job, give me my drugs, and let me go home.

This is probably the root of your problem.