Anyone else frustrated by their state school's in/out-of-state admissions preference?

[investmentsinmyfutureboom]

NJ resident here. Using my state as an example, we have four MD and one DO schools, with each matriculating between 20-30% of out-of-state students. From what I've seen, these are generally the numbers of all the northeastern and California state medical schools.

Meanwhile, in most of the southern and midwestern states, the state medical schools are filled with 90+% in-state students. Sometimes, this is mandated by the state law (Texas I believe requires 90+%).

Now, not to get all Karen here, but does this not frustrate some people, considering we pay the highest amount of taxes in the northeast and California that fund these medical schools?

I realize there are a lot of considerations at play, including supporting rural communities and doctor shortages ect. But it's not like we in NY and NJ don't also have these issues. I'm from South Jersey, where there's a massive impending doctor shortage.

Don't mean to start a political discussion. Was just wondering what you all thought.

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[gyngyn]

California can rely on the fact they we don't have to bear the expense of educating (or training) physicians to be confident that they will be clamoring to return. The folks we lure here for education or training tend to stay here so there is an overall increase in doctors for our state by accepting OOS candidates. That applies to every place in CA except the places that actually need doctors (e.g. IE and SJV).

 

[Faha]

Some of those non resident students have connections to the state. They could be former residents that grew up in NJ and graduated from high school in NJ but moved away for college and worked in another state for a year or 2 before applying as a resident of that other state. Others attended undergraduate school in NJ and wish to remain there for medical school. A few are legacies. Generally, the higher the percentage of non residents admitted the less likely that these groups are a significant section of those non residents. A state admitting less than 10% of non residents primarily consists of those groups. Schools admitting half or more of their students as non residents (U Michigan, Ohio State, Colorado, Vermont) are admitting many non residents for other reasons.

 

[popcorn1096]

Hi, I don't mean to fact-check you, but I live in the midwest and the ratio to IS to OOS is on par with what you're reporting for New Jersey. OOS matriculants vary from 59% to 21% in my state. Just from my own experience, the amount of OOS matriculated is somewhat influenced by the competitiveness of the program and whether the institution is publicly or privately funded. Also Texas has a completely different application process (TMDSAS). Im sorry you're frustrated though!! It is an amazingly competitive process for all!!

 

[Goro]

NJ resident here. Using my state as an example, we have four MD and one DO schools, with each matriculating between 20-30% of out-of-state students. From what I've seen, these are generally the numbers of all the northeastern and California state medical schools.

Meanwhile, in most of the southern and midwestern states, the medical schools are filled with 90+% in-state students. Sometimes, this is mandated by the state law (Texas I believe requires 90+%).

Now, not to get all Karen here, but does this not frustrate some people, considering we pay the highest amount of taxes in the northeast and California that fund these medical schools?

I realize there are a lot of considerations at play, including supporting rural communities and doctor shortages ect. But it's not like we in NY and NJ don't also have these issues. I'm from South Jersey, where there's a massive impending doctor shortage.

Don't mean to start a political discussion. Was just wondering what you all thought.

Those non residents also pay a hefty chunk of change to attend the NJ schools, to the tune of some $20-25K more/year.

It's also a hell of a lot harder to get into the NJ schools as a OOSer. Cooper alone gets 5572 OOS apps and only interviews 189 of them (3.4%). Of those, maybe 50-75 get accepted (0.8-1.3%).

Compare that to NJ residents, who have a 15% chance of an II and at least a 6.6% chance of an accept. If you're a NJ resident who wants to get into your state schools, the deck is already stacked for you, but if you're shut out, then have a better app.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

On a similar note, I've seen that some of my IS schools have significantly higher GPA avg's for the matriculated/accepted IS students compared to the OOS students. I don't care where you come from if we're competing on the same level but why do they have such a much higher level of expectation for IS students? I wish I still had my MSAR sub to give you the actual numbers tho. Any explanations for this?

 

[KnightDoc]

Those non residents also pay a hefty chunk of change to attend the NJ schools, to the tune of some $20-25K more/year.

It's also a hell of a lot harder to get into the NJ schools as a OOSer. Cooper alone gets 5572 OOS apps and only interviews 189 of them (3.4%). Of those, maybe 50-75 get accepted (0.8-1.3%).

Compare that to NJ residents, who have a 15% chance of an II and at least a 6.6% chance of an accept. If you're a NJ resident who wants to get into your state schools, the deck is already stacked for you, but if you're shut out, then have a better app.

This ^^^^^. I would point out the irony in complaining that your taxes fund the schools when the reality is that they fund them a little less for each OOS matriculant!! The reality is that state schools that are not bound by statutory requirements love OOS students because of the extra revenue they generate, and this means you could also pay up and go OOS if necessary.

IS state schools are highly competitive everywhere for the very reason you are frustrated -- great educations at taxpayer subsidized tuition. The bottom line is that NJ, like the other states you reference, is just densely populated and filled with great public school systems and lots of high achieving students, which just generates a lot of competition. There is a reason your parents didn't settle in [fill in the name of a random less competitive southern or midwestern state], but the benefits you received from growing up in a place like NJ also attracted lots of other families like yours, which then doesn't help when seeking a taxpayer subsidized medical school education.

 

[FriendOfCacti]

One of my state schools literally only requires 50% of its matriculants be in state And the other one averages about 75% IS/ 25% OOS, which is a little better, but still not ideal... not sure how they complain about the physician shortage in our state when half of the class ends up leaving to go back to residency in their home state

 

[investmentsinmyfutureboom]

One of my state schools literally only requires 50% of its matriculants be in state And the other one averages about 75% IS/ 25% OOS, which is a little better, but still not ideal... not sure how they complain about the physician shortage in our state when half of the class ends up leaving to go back to residency in their home state

Yes! I don't have any hard data to back this up, but from what I've seen anecdotally, it does seem like most medical students do prefer to go back to their home states for residency and to eventually start their practices. It angers me then that Cooper (my local medical school) is filling 30% of the class with people from California, New York and various other states. I understand that these students may be outstanding, with stats and ECs significantly better than their in-state competition. But that makes no difference/has no benefit to South Jersey, when those outstanding students graduate in four years and go right back to their home states. Cooper Medical School was established in 2012 specifically because there is a shortage of doctors in this area. It makes no sense that their admissions policy doesn't seem to align with the goal of addressing this problem.

 

[investmentsinmyfutureboom]

This ^^^^^. I would point out the irony in complaining that your taxes fund the schools when the reality is that they fund them a little less for each OOS matriculant!! The reality is that state schools that are not bound by statutory requirements love OOS students because of the extra revenue they generate, and this means you could also pay up and go OOS if necessary.

IS state schools are highly competitive everywhere for the very reason you are frustrated -- great educations at taxpayer subsidized tuition. The bottom line is that NJ, like the other states you reference, is just densely populated and filled with great public school systems and lots of high achieving students, which just generates a lot of competition. There is a reason your parents didn't settle in [fill in the name of a random less competitive southern or midwestern state], but the benefits you received from growing up in a place like NJ also attracted lots of other families like yours, which then doesn't help when seeking a taxpayer subsidized medical school education.

I get the economic argument here. But do schools really look at OOS students as source of additional funding? Do they struggle financially so much that they need a certain amount of OOS tuition to keep operating? It just seems funny, because here in NJ we pay absurd taxes to fund our medical schools while according to you, our schools need OOS students to pay higher tuition, while in Florida (as an example), where there is no income tax, FSU COM fills its class ~95% with Florida residents while charging a very low taxpayer subsidized tuition to every single student

 

[KnightDoc]

I get the economic argument here. But do schools really look at OOS students as source of additional funding? Do they struggle financially so much that they need a certain amount of OOS tuition to keep operating? It just seems funny, because here in NJ we pay absurd taxes to fund our medical schools while according to you, our schools need OOS students to pay higher tuition, while in Florida (as an example), where there is no income tax, FSU COM fills its class ~95% with Florida residents while charging a very low taxpayer subsidized tuition to every single student

This could end up going off topic very fast, but since I am somewhat familiar with both FL and NJ, I'll try to give you an explanation.

Yes -- FL is much more generous with funding for post-secondary education than NJ -- lower tuition, more generous scholarships, greater percent IS students, etc. But, you do NOT pay absurd taxes to fund medical schools in NJ. You pay absurd taxes to have 500+ towns, each with their own board of education, very well funded K-12, lots of public services states like FL don't offer, very well paid public employees, with benefits and pensions to match, etc. FL has a lot of tourism NJ doesn't have, and a pretty high sales tax that all of those tourists pay funds lots of things in FL.

Need vs. want with respect to OOS tuition is a question that can't really be answered here, but, if a school is allowed to bring in X number of OOS students, it's tough for an administration to turn down those extra dollars, particularly when the OOS students have better stats than the IS ones. OOS students also increase the profile of the school beyond its state's borders. As long as a school like Cooper is serving a majority of students IS, and as long as those students' stats are on average below those of the OOS students, it's tough to argue that it's not fulfilling its mission.

Cooper doesn't need to be 100% IS in order to address the physician shortage in South Jersey. In fact, if they really wanted to address that, while taking an ever bigger hit to its ranking and statistical profile, it could require that its graduates spend X number of years practicing in South Jersey (and, even better, low SES areas in NJ), or else pay a significant monetary penalty to be released from the obligation. That would certainly address the shortage while making the school less attractive to OOS applicants, as well as IS applicants with less restrictive options!

At the end of the day, schools like Cooper balance their mission by admitting plenty of IS students (with lower stats than OOS matriculants) while balancing that with a desire to generate some incremental tuition dollars and increase their statistical profile by tapping into the national supply/demand imbalance for medical school seats by admitting whatever percent it admits OOS. You're better off than you were prior to 2012, but not as good as if the class was 100% IS.

Of course, you can always establish residency in a state like FL and take your shot there. Just keep in mind that NJ had a 21.3% IS matriculation rate last year while FL's was 20.3% (even with its 95% IS matriculants), and NJ's OOS matriculation rate was 23.9% while FL's was 13.8%. Probably a function of the superior K-12 education in NJ that your tax dollars paid for, but who knows?

 

[Blueprint Med School]

NJ resident here. Using my state as an example, we have four MD and one DO schools, with each matriculating between 20-30% of out-of-state students. From what I've seen, these are generally the numbers of all the northeastern and California state medical schools.

Meanwhile, in most of the southern and midwestern states, the state medical schools are filled with 90+% in-state students. Sometimes, this is mandated by the state law (Texas I believe requires 90+%).

Now, not to get all Karen here, but does this not frustrate some people, considering we pay the highest amount of taxes in the northeast and California that fund these medical schools?

I realize there are a lot of considerations at play, including supporting rural communities and doctor shortages ect. But it's not like we in NY and NJ don't also have these issues. I'm from South Jersey, where there's a massive impending doctor shortage.

Don't mean to start a political discussion. Was just wondering what you all thought.

Being from Jersey, a lot of those schools take 'out of state' applicants in name only. a lot of those students have significant ties to the area and either grew up there or previously had gone to school there. As for the new MD school at Seton Hall, that is a private school so it is not subject to the same regulations as the others.

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