Anyone else get contradictory advice from medical schools on reapps?

[familyaerospace]

I know several people who were in their late 30s who got into MD programs with lower stats and are ORM. When you come in with advanced degrees you are not going to be 24-25. I didn't earn my MS until I was 26, I almost have a second masters but it is international. As one school suggested I get a PhD, that would take at least 5-7 more years making me 40ish so age can't be that much of much of an issue especially given I was one of the younger people in most of the interviews I have be called in. They must really love their non-trads.

@QofQuimica can you please lock the thread? 90% of the info I needed I got from Goro everything else cannot be fixed until Jan.

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[type12]

Sorry to get off topic but geez how in the world is 28 considered old? Isn't the average matriculant starting at 24-25 now?
I do know someone who is 38 and got in MD last cycle, so there is hope. She did have a 38 MCAT though and unusual life circumstances

I guess my story wasn't clear: "old" is coupled with

1. multiple application cycles (so "old" applicant) and
2. the stories suggested I do not respect authority, and have had a lifelong history of judging people solely on merit/actions (so too "old" to change).

So if OP was an "old age" applicant applying for the first time, he's not "old." However, he's old in the sense that his application has been seen one too many times (AMCAS ID number probably has a smaller second digit from the left than "younger" or "recent" applicants).

EDIT: I would have no doubts that, if OP got a new AMCAS ID and new name, his application would get more hits (though I am not sure if he'd get accepted).

 

[familyaerospace]

Is getting a new AMCAS number even allowed? It was my understanding that it was not. My DO number would be as old.

My new name for what it's worth is on my application. I had my name changed to match my appearance as female name plus a beard did not go over well. I have another name I can use that I also have documentation in, but it's Israeli. Better to keep using, as the Israelis would say, my "television name." If I went to, say, Sackler or BGU, I would be using both names. Television name on documentation, Israeli everywhere else as I like the Israeli name more than my "television name."

What would probably help at least is if I no longer had to list my female name and could get my DL changed legally so I would not have to mark the F marker. Then if I so wanted to hide the LGBT aspect which seems to cause at least 80% of the problems I've had, both in applications and jobs, that would be much easier to do. Alternatively I can see if my Passport is a better sex marker (it has the correct marker). I have to ask AMCAS about that after I rewrite the MCAT as my passport is only a year old so it is not something I think about.

 

[type12]

Is getting a new AMCAS number even allowed? It was my understanding that it was not. My DO number would be as old.

No, it's not allowed, hence my point that it's time to pack it in and see if you really want to be a doctor or a US MD. There is no way you will ever be accepted into a US MD school, and the same goes for me. After you accept this fact, and you're like me, you'll apply exclusively to DO schools, who do not care if your DO number is old (who told you this? I only said AMCAS ID number). If the two letters burn you like garlic to a vampire, then you will have considered foreign med schools like the caribbean.

What would probably help at least is if I no longer had to list my female name and could get my DL changed legally so I would not have to mark the F marker. Then if I so wanted to hide the LGBT aspect which seems to cause at least 80% of the problems I've had, both in applications and jobs, that would be much easier to do. Alternatively I can see if my Passport is a better sex marker (it has the correct marker). I have to ask AMCAS about that after I rewrite the MCAT as my passport is only a year old so it is not something I think about.

We get it, you're special. Everyone is a special snowflake though. You need to stop harping on your LGBT status, because that's one aspect of your application you can't change (although, you could stop trying to show it off while simultaneously trying to pretend you are averse to talking about it). Frankly, if I can see your false modesty on a forum, adcoms definitely can.

Regardless, that's not the reason med schools are rejecting you.

I know this sounds harsh, but I'm in the same boat, and wish someone just was as blunt as I am to you. The medical admissions system is extremely corrupt: while not the majority, I've seen everything from an applicant with a white-as-paper name get accepted to NYU by listing himself as a minority with financial hardships, to a med school silencing a minor's rape accusation by offering future admissions (and not following through, lol, because the accused was no longer associated with the school).

Apply smart, and understand you are not entitled to anything, no matter how hard you try, and how much harder and more deserving you are than others.

 

[el_duderino]

Brilliant.

 

[familyaerospace]

Personally, I am planning to apply to Israeli MD schools as they will pay me to go there and I was planning to make aliyah in a few years after everything was paid off anyway. This would change that and make aliyah immediate. I applied to one last year and was rejected immediately. I do think I suspect what the issue was there and that might have been a serious problem with my essays, at least one of the essays. I will be aiming for Sackler when the MCAT is retaken as I have not only my batches of editors but people in that school which might be able to lend a set of eyes before it is mailed.

If the DO schools want to give me aid to apply there, then I will max them out, you get three schools. But they didn't. I am still qualified for two more years of FAP from AMCAS as they do 5 years for medical school applications, I will be reeligible next year. And as far as DO schools carrying about how old their ID is, I got that from a handful of DO faculty members making them similar to AMCAS in that regard.

I should actually thank you every time you bump the post, inbetween some really immature emails I get, I also get success stories both here and for the handful of people who have decided to investigate who I am. Lots of 4, 5, and even 6th round success stories for US MD. Had one person who first wrote MCAT 10 years ago who got in with an ancient number (obviously as it was 10 years old at least). He did not apply every year obviously but was a reapplicant for a few years.

You have admitted you have a problem with authority yet you recite some aspects of things given by authorities which have been proven false in the past. How interesting. I would not want a person who has a problem with authority in authority, but that is just me.

Regardless thank you for your advice. You let me know how your round goes while I worked on my own.

It's amusing how I don't think anyone has actually answered the contradictory advice question on this post which was basically coming down to what the heck is up with school 2 and whether or not I should throw them out as an outlier and keep my research/teaching/community service. This isn't a WAMC issue and never has been. Luckily people did email me their experiences so I know this has happened in the past.

 

[el_duderino]

I don't get why you refuse to pay to apply to any schools. Are you that destitute?

 

[type12]

You have admitted you have a problem with authority yet you recite some aspects of things given by authorities which have been proven false in the past. How interesting. I would not want a person who has a problem with authority in authority, but that is just me.

Your vagaries are just that: empty and ambiguous enough to hide behind. What has been "proven" false in the past? And what have I recited? Please, do share.

And I'm very happy to hear you most likely will never be in any position of authority, as you are using anecdotal evidence as your primary comfort blanket, rather than more reliable (and scientific) data. We need more physicians, not wives' tales of ginger root. That's not just me, that's globally.

It's amusing how I don't think anyone has actually answered the contradictory advice question on this post which was basically coming down to what the heck is up with school 2 and whether or not I should throw them out as an outlier and keep my research/teaching/community service. This isn't a WAMC issue and never has been. Luckily people did email me their experiences so I know this has happened in the past.

I did, and a few others in this thread did. Your continued desire to dismiss anything negative and hold on dearly to confirmation bias made you blind to it. In short, "they probably are not telling you about the elephant in the room." Your attitude needs to be more objective. Stop defending yourself so much. If you want to believe the contradictory information is a sign that there's nothing wrong with you, but something wrong with admissions committees, that's your prerogative. Unfortunately, the truth doesn't care what your beliefs are.

Almost getting in is NOT the same as getting in. Being so close is not the same as being accepted. The sum of your application does not equal the whole, and in the case of reapplicants, is less.

It's great you have heard from the grapevine a story of one person, who, after 10 years, managed to get in. If that's what you want to try for, great. I would heed you, though, that people who share those stories pretend it's a "I OVERCAME ALL" adversity story. They omit the critical part of - say - "well, someone I know or my family knows finally came into a position of power and could hook me up." I don't mean your weak links to people who have made offers to "help" you without promises, but literally those people who say, "Hey, apply, and you're in, guaranteed." UMDNJ had accepted a student with a 24 MCAT and sub 3.0 GPA in 2004 (or 2002) who had just that.

I too have anecdotal stories that make your stories look like the little leagues. I don't rely on them, though. You can feel free to ignore the statistical likelihood of nth-time reapplicant acceptance rates with all the harrowing tales you like, but it won't change the odds.

So it's clear: AdComs are telling you the small things you can fix, but there's probably something bigger they are avoiding discussing.

 

[familyaerospace]

@jonnythan I will PM you to tell you suffice it to say, yes it is that bad.

@type12 I have been in a position of authority. I don't even have to go looking for the success stories, they are coming to find me. If they do not wish to be identified, I can not ethically out them especially when they are taking the time to hide their SDN identity.

 

[kthxbai]

So it's clear: AdComs are telling you the small things you can fix, but there's probably something bigger they are avoiding discussing.

I'm inclined to agree. You can attribute the first and perhaps second unsuccessful rounds to under-preparedness and other common deficiencies.

Third and fourth rounds imply a problem greater than the sum of your application - especially if you've received multiple interviews in the past. There is something here you're just not facing, and I don't entirely believe being LGBT has everything to do with it.

 

[familyaerospace]

I'm inclined to agree. You can attribute the first and perhaps second unsuccessful round to under-preparedness and other common deficiencies.

Third and fourth rounds imply a problem greater than the sum of your application - especially if you've received multiple interviews in the past. There is something here you're just not facing, and I don't entirely believe being LGBT has everything to do with it.

I was I had been told I had to put my yeshiva classes for round 3. So on my application now I look like Super Jew Scientist as opposed to Transsexual Scientist. I have said that it hides the fact I am trans. I do not know if that is true or not. LGBT was not mentioned during any of my interviews for round 3, being Jewish was. That was the most obvious change during round 2 and 3 other than the school increase.

On Tuesday a retired lawyer in my class became absolutely convinced he knew of the problem after watching me interact with different people over this summer. It's one of those things I would have no idea how to fix though. He pointed out that I look 16. This would also be an interview problem that would not be noticed in mock interviews with interviewers of similar or younger age but older faculty members would notice it and could think I have issues gaining respect from patients. That on top of my other issues would kick me to the reject pile.

If that is a problem, it could explain why I haven't sealed a deal but can get interviews. Honestly though I have no idea but some of the older members of my synagogue (all lawyers actually) have said similar in the past which is why two of my interviews this past round had a graying beard, which did age me by 5-10 years. I was asked about my family more when I had the beard, my kids, my husband. I had to shave the beard off, but I'm growing it back for the age factor.

 

[familyaerospace]

If someone has "how to age a babyface" suggestions, I would LOVE to hear them. No seriously. I really would. I have been searching for suggestions for a good number of years.

 

[kthxbai]

I was I had been told I had to put my yeshiva classes for round 3. So on my application now I look like Super Jew Scientist as opposed to Transsexual Scientist. I have said that it hides the fact I am trans. I do not know if that is true or not. LGBT was not mentioned during any of my interviews for round 3, being Jewish was. That was the most obvious change during round 2 and 3 other than the school increase.

On Tuesday a retired lawyer in my class became absolutely convinced he knew of the problem after watching me interact with different people over this summer. It's one of those things I would have no idea how to fix though. He pointed out that I look 16. This would also be an interview problem that would not be noticed in mock interviews with interviewers of similar or younger age but older faculty members would notice it and could think I have issues gaining respect from patients. That on top of my other issues would kick me to the reject pile.

If that is a problem, it could explain why I haven't sealed a deal but can get interviews. Honestly though I have no idea but some of the older members of my synagogue (all lawyers actually) have said similar in the past which is why two of my interviews this past round had a graying beard, which did age me by 5-10 years. I was asked about my family more when I had the beard, my kids, my husband. I had to shave the beard off, but I'm growing it back for the age factor.

Maybe it's as simple (and unfortunate) as that. Perhaps you do appear too young to older interviewers... although you should quickly compensate for your looks with mature responses and demeanor.... Hmm....

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but your writing suggests that you're a rather scattered person. Is it possible that you're all over the place during interviews?

P.S
How/why would your Jewish status matter? As an Israeli (secular/agnostic) Jew who didn't hide it in her application (although I didn't thrust it to the forefront either), I wonder about the significance of my background aside from the diversity factor.

 

[familyaerospace]

Maybe it's as simple (and unfortunate) as that. Perhaps you do appear too young to older interviewers... although you should quickly compensate for your looks with mature responses and demeanor.... Hmm....

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but your writing suggests that you're a rather scattered person. Is it possible that you're all over the place during interviews?

P.S
How/why would your Jewish status matter? As an Israeli (secular/agnostic) Jew who didn't hide it in her application (although I didn't thrust it to the forefront either), I wonder about the significance of my background aside from the diversity factor.

The writing appears scattered because I write and rewrite and rewrite. I rewrote that post several times with a very laggy computer. By the time the computer typed out what I wanted to say I wanted to edit it. I also removed a few paragraphs because I realised they didn't add much although now I think I should have left them in since they answer your question. At a certain point I finally gave up and posted. I had been typing it since the prior post came in.

Having a casual conversation will do the deviations, interviews or work conversations have fewer deviations. I attempt to just deal with the question and say little more

According to Ben gadol (yes we had a Ben katan), it took him until he was interacting with me one on one to realize either I was an incredibly mature 16 year old or a very babyfaced 40 year old. Turns out I am just a babyfaced 33 year old. He was trying to figure out what was going on in the class since some would not interact with me at all.

Why would my Jewish status matter? I am in the south.

I had one school who spent most of the interview (45 of an hour almost exactly, I could see the clock) bashing Israel and stating how it is not a real state and how they only had one Jew in the school and she said "One is enough!" I did a lot of tongue biting although I did state no country is perfect and that I would prefer to discuss Israel some other time.

I'm not a secular Jew. For lack of a better term, I am Reformadox. In Israel I was considered Modern Orthodox. I wear tzitzit (tucked in during interviews and hospital), head covered usually, shomer shabbat and shomer kashrut, lay tefillin, but prefer to sit in mixed seating and my shul has male and female rabbis and a female cantor and I tend to insist on full equality for women. So in 10 min I have candlelighting so I will be out for Shabbat.

For the other issue, they commented on my observance level twice by two different interviewers simply because I answered would I be likely to go out drinking on Friday night with the fact I don't drink, I didn't even mentioned shabbat. I don't drink because of medication. Now a few years ago there was a major attack at that school. While I do not think they are particularly antisemetic, I think they realised that it would be difficult for me to live there without a Jewish community. I had to speak to several rabbis on advice over being a Jew that far from anything. Like we decided I would have to go dairy only to keep kosher. By the time I had all my religious issues solved and was completely comfortable with it, I was rejected. At least those things are in place for if I have to go away next year or the year after.

(Shabbat Shalom)

 

[poopsicle]

If someone has "how to age a babyface" suggestions, I would LOVE to hear them. No seriously. I really would. I have been searching for suggestions for a good number of years.

I too thought my babyface was an issue as a reapplicant with no acceptances. With some brainstorming, I figured first impressions in interviews were very important and decided to bulk. After putting on 30 lbs of muscle I got into school that year. -.- Nothing about my behavior or personality changed. I highly recommend it though, fitness is a very good topic to talk about in interviews. win-win

 

[familyaerospace]

I too thought my babyface was an issue as a reapplicant with no acceptances. With some brainstorming, I figured first impressions in interviews were very important and decided to bulk. After putting on 30 lbs of muscle I got into school that year. -.- Nothing about my behavior or personality changed. I highly recommend it though, fitness is a very good topic to talk about in interviews. win-win

Hmmm... that might be a good idea once I get cleared at the end of next month (I only am allowed to pick up 5-10 lbs right now due to injury).

Did you primarily just do upper body? I have bulked up a little bit upper body since cycle 1, but that was because I was put on testosterone. In comparison to the average man, I am still really small even with that so far though.

 

[familyaerospace]

Hey @familyaerospace,

I see that your status has updated to accepted. Your hard work paid off! Congratulations!

Thank you! I was accepted to school 3 which was MCG on traffic day. School 1 was Mercer and school 2 was Rocky Vista. I ignored all of Rocky Vista's advice. I followed all of Mercer's advice and they have yet to get back to me on this year. MCG I asked them directly about their advice in the interview (the interview that was hostile), but I don't think I implemented any of their suggestions although I tried to get another physician letter. They did have a student confirm that multiple waitlist years are not unheard of. There is a third year who was waitlisted 7 times!