Anyone else hate this?

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Depends what they are doing.

They probably do know more than you about the dispensing/PYXIS aspect of the hospital pharmacy.

If they are challenging you on order verification or calls to the MD that's different.

If they are telling you to reprint a label or change the dispensing location in PYXIS well, I tell them, sorry and thank you.
 
The only thing I hate about certain career techs are how truly terrible some of them are at their job. You want to act like you God's gift to pharmacy? Alright, no big deal. Bitter that the new grad RPh makes more than you ever dream of? OK, I can handle that. But working the same job for over a decade and you can't do BASIC stuff quickly and easily? No excuse for that.
 
Nothin can be done, just like herpes. Accept it and move on.
 
I don't like it when these techs try and tell me "the right way" of doing things. I'm the pharmacist, I'm doing it my way. I especially hate it when they try to direct people into doing things during pharmacy meetings, as well as coming up with new and useless tasks.
 
Sparda29 said:
I can't stand the lifelong pharmacy techs who have been at the hospital 15+ years who think they know more than a newbie pharmacist and also who think they are somewhat in charge of the place. How do you deal with these kind of techs?
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owlegrad said:
The only thing I hate about certain career techs are how truly terrible some of them are at their job. You want to act like you God's gift to pharmacy? Alright, no big deal. Bitter that the new grad RPh makes more than you ever dream of? OK, I can handle that. But working the same job for over a decade and you can't do BASIC stuff quickly and easily? No excuse for that.
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I believe your concerns come down to a particular mindset. A mindset that happens to be classically exhibited by both of you in your above posts. Are the tech's really terrible at their job? Or are they disillusioned after years of neglect at the hands of "the system"? When I was a tech I was personally subjected to the treatment I'm referring to. The talking down to, the exclusionary decision making processes, the entitlement, etc. It's interesting because throughout school they talk about interprofessional collaborative care and then don't ever think to include all the other "nonprofessionals" that contribute to positive patient outcomes.

A good example is the individual wiping down the hospital bed so the next patient doesn't get some sort of nosocomial infection. Or the pharmacy tech that does IVs, delivers stat meds, draws up code meds, removes expired meds from patient bins, etc. It's easy to forget these people are also all intimately tied to the same goal. Though apparently it's even easier to just believe they're stubborn, bitter and envious of those pharmacist paychecks. Couldn't it also possibly be non-standardized and inadequate training, lackluster managerial feedback, and/or bad hiring practices?

All proselytizing aside, I've worked with "horrible" techs, pharmacists and others and I don't really believe there is any difference in handling someone you believe fits that description. First things first, maybe you should try digging into what the root cause of the issue without wide sweeping assumptions. You'll make your life much easier if you can look at things from a different angle without assuming the worst in people.
 
Thanks, this advice has changed my life!

Skrumpy said:
I believe your concerns come down to a particular mindset. A mindset that happens to be classically exhibited by both of you in your above posts. Are the tech's really terrible at their job? Or are they disillusioned after years of neglect at the hands of "the system"? When I was a tech I was personally subjected to the treatment I'm referring to. The talking down to, the exclusionary decision making processes, the entitlement, etc. It's interesting because throughout school they talk about interprofessional collaborative care and then don't ever think to include all the other "nonprofessionals" that contribute to positive patient outcomes.

A good example is the individual wiping down the hospital bed so the next patient doesn't get some sort of nosocomial infection. Or the pharmacy tech that does IVs, delivers stat meds, draws up code meds, removes expired meds from patient bins, etc. It's easy to forget these people are also all intimately tied to the same goal. Though apparently it's even easier to just believe they're stubborn, bitter and envious of those pharmacist paychecks. Couldn't it also possibly be non-standardized and inadequate training, lackluster managerial feedback, and/or bad hiring practices?

All proselytizing aside, I've worked with "horrible" techs, pharmacists and others and I don't really believe there is any difference in handling someone you believe fits that description. First things first, maybe you should try digging into what the root cause of the issue without wide sweeping assumptions. You'll make your life much easier if you can look at things from a different angle without assuming the worst in people.
Click to expand...
 
Skrumpy said:
I believe your concerns come down to a particular mindset. A mindset that happens to be classically exhibited by both of you in your above posts. Are the tech's really terrible at their job? Or are they disillusioned after years of neglect at the hands of "the system"? When I was a tech I was personally subjected to the treatment I'm referring to. The talking down to, the exclusionary decision making processes, the entitlement, etc. It's interesting because throughout school they talk about interprofessional collaborative care and then don't ever think to include all the other "nonprofessionals" that contribute to positive patient outcomes.

A good example is the individual wiping down the hospital bed so the next patient doesn't get some sort of nosocomial infection. Or the pharmacy tech that does IVs, delivers stat meds, draws up code meds, removes expired meds from patient bins, etc. It's easy to forget these people are also all intimately tied to the same goal. Though apparently it's even easier to just believe they're stubborn, bitter and envious of those pharmacist paychecks. Couldn't it also possibly be non-standardized and inadequate training, lackluster managerial feedback, and/or bad hiring practices?

All proselytizing aside, I've worked with "horrible" techs, pharmacists and others and I don't really believe there is any difference in handling someone you believe fits that description. First things first, maybe you should try digging into what the root cause of the issue without wide sweeping assumptions. You'll make your life much easier if you can look at things from a different angle without assuming the worst in people.
Click to expand...

I have my favorites with the techs. My favorite techs are the ones who do what I say when I tell them to do it, the ones who answer the phones and deal with the nurses instead of passing every little phone call along to me.

Sometimes I get these techs on the evening shift who tell me, "sorry I can't help out with the labels and phones right now, Tech X from the morning crew told me to get these things done by the end of the shift".

The tech I like is the one who drops all that **** when I tell them "**** what the morning tech wants, your job is labels and phone, I don't care if those drugs aren't unit dosed and those code carts aren't completed, that's the morning crews problem, they have 4 techs, we have 1 tech, let them deal with it tomorrow".
 
old techs have a lot of knowledge about the system of the hospital, how processes work, the evolution of things in the hospital and they can really save your butt if you are a newbie and are stuck with a problem. if they dont like you they will leave you to fend by yourself. at my hospital, you want the old techs on your side.

dont mess with the techs and order them around. they are not there to serve you, they have responsibilities of their own. the pharmacists ask the techs more questions than the other way around, TRUST ME

you need to change your attitude buddy you're not god's gift to pharmacy
 
pharmasaur said:
old techs have a lot of knowledge about the system of the hospital, how processes work, the evolution of things in the hospital and they can really save your butt if you are a newbie and are stuck with a problem. if they dont like you they will leave you to fend by yourself. at my hospital, you want the old techs on your side.

dont mess with the techs and order them around. they are not there to serve you, they have responsibilities of their own. the pharmacists ask the techs more questions than the other way around, TRUST ME

you need to change your attitude buddy you're not god's gift to pharmacy
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Techs can make or break your shift. I worked with an awesome tech at my PRN job this past Saturday.

I also have a great student at my full time job presently. Friday is his last day and I will really miss having him around. He's been a tremendous help to our team.
 
pharmasaur said:
old techs have a lot of knowledge about the system of the hospital, how processes work, the evolution of things in the hospital and they can really save your butt if you are a newbie and are stuck with a problem. if they dont like you they will leave you to fend by yourself. at my hospital, you want the old techs on your side.

dont mess with the techs and order them around. they are not there to serve you, they have responsibilities of their own. the pharmacists ask the techs more questions than the other way around, TRUST ME

you need to change your attitude buddy you're not god's gift to pharmacy
Click to expand...

What are you even talking about? Pharmacists are teches immediate supervisors. A pharmacist's job is to find the best and safest way to get medications out to the patient. Why should sparda be scared to "order" his techs to do things his way... That's literally his job! "Don't tell the techs to do things because they have their own responsibilities?" Lol yeah, the best scenario would be the techs already know how you like things done, so you wouldn't have to tell them, but that's not always the case. All sparda was asking for was for the techs to do things his way, so he can be more comfortable checking meds. I don't see anything wrong with that... It's not like he was asking the techs to go get him coffee and wash his car...
 
wucool33 said:
What are you even talking about? Pharmacists are teches immediate supervisors. A pharmacist's job is to find the best and safest way to get medications out to the patient. Why should sparda be scared to "order" his techs to do things his way... That's literally his job! "Don't tell the techs to do things because they have their own responsibilities?" Lol yeah, the best scenario would be the techs already know how you like things done, so you wouldn't have to tell them, but that's not always the case. All sparda was asking for was for the techs to do things his way, so he can be more comfortable checking meds. I don't see anything wrong with that... It's not like he was asking the techs to go get him coffee and wash his car...
Click to expand...

Primary job of the pharmacy is to dispense meds.

When I'm working, I prefer to stay seated and crank through order entry and keep pending orders down as much as possible. Only time I should have to get up is when I need to go make an IV or go dispense narcotics or head up to the floors.

To do that, I need the techs to fill the labels for me and answer the phones and screen the calls and only let the important calls get to me.

Only time I ask the tech to get me coffee is when they go to get it themselves. (and now that we have a Keurig, don't even need to do that anymore)
 
Sparda29 said:
Primary job of the pharmacy is to dispense meds.

When I'm working, I prefer to stay seated and crank through order entry and keep pending orders down as much as possible. Only time I should have to get up is when I need to go make an IV or go dispense narcotics or head up to the floors.

To do that, I need the techs to fill the labels for me and answer the phones and screen the calls and only let the important calls get to me.

Only time I ask the tech to get me coffee is when they go to get it themselves. (and now that we have a Keurig, don't even need to do that anymore)
Click to expand...

Heheheh . Sparda, did you ever use nurse breakrooms keurigs when you didn't have one? One hospital I trained at encouraged us to use nursing keurigs and many pharmacists actually used patient designated keurigs LOL. It is a very real addiction. . I decided not to seek employment at a location where they didn't give pharmacists free coffee
 
type b pharmD said:
Heheheh . Sparda, did you ever use nurse breakrooms keurigs when you didn't have one? One hospital I trained at encouraged us to use nursing keurigs and many pharmacists actually used patient designated keurigs LOL. It is a very real addiction. . I decided not to seek employment at a location where they didn't give pharmacists free coffee
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Nah, I believe ours is the only Keurig in the hospital besides the one in the doctors lounge. I actually donated it to our department since it was sitting inside a box in my closet since my 2nd year of pharm, never used it because I always ran out of the house in the morning and got breakfast at the Dunkin Donuts on the highway en route to school/rotations.
 
wucool33 said:
What are you even talking about? Pharmacists are teches immediate supervisors. A pharmacist's job is to find the best and safest way to get medications out to the patient. Why should sparda be scared to "order" his techs to do things his way... That's literally his job! "Don't tell the techs to do things because they have their own responsibilities?" Lol yeah, the best scenario would be the techs already know how you like things done, so you wouldn't have to tell them, but that's not always the case. All sparda was asking for was for the techs to do things his way, so he can be more comfortable checking meds. I don't see anything wrong with that... It's not like he was asking the techs to go get him coffee and wash his car...
Click to expand...

Ehhh no, the pharmacy director is the immediate supervisor NOT the pharmacists.

Where I work as an intern, I do tech duties and I have a strict schedule of my own tasks to follow. Doing cart exchange in the AM, pyxis fill at certain times, stocking floors with IVs at certain times, etc etc. If I don't do something at certain time it throws everyone off. If a pharmacist calls a tech and asks to do a favor (like run over somewhere and grab something to take to X location), the tech doesn't have to. If the tech likes you, or is a decent tech who is willing to help whether or not they like you, they may hurry up their tasks and go out of their way to help the pharmacist. But you bet that if there is a tech who doesn't like a pharmacist they will say "sorry cant busy now", hang up, and it will be the pharmacists problem. Also since some tasks are exclusively done by techs they know how to trouble shoot problems or figure out where something went wrong. Pharmacists know how cart exchange and pyxis works but they don't spend 5 hours a day doing this so if the RN calls pharmacist saying there is a problem the pharmacist has to figure it out. Seriously you need the techs on your side. Just the other day I was training at my retail internship and there was a newbie float pharmacist who kept asking the tech how **** works. If Sparda's techs keep passing annoying little phone calls on to him, I bet it's because they don't like him and don't want to give him a hand :laugh:
 
pharmasaur said:
Ehhh no, the pharmacy director is the immediate supervisor NOT the pharmacists.

Where I work as an intern, I do tech duties and I have a strict schedule of my own tasks to follow. Doing cart exchange in the AM, pyxis fill at certain times, stocking floors with IVs at certain times, etc etc. If I don't do something at certain time it throws everyone off. If a pharmacist calls a tech and asks to do a favor (like run over somewhere and grab something to take to X location), the tech doesn't have to. If the tech likes you, or is a decent tech who is willing to help whether or not they like you, they may hurry up their tasks and go out of their way to help the pharmacist. But you bet that if there is a tech who doesn't like a pharmacist they will say "sorry cant busy now", hang up, and it will be the pharmacists problem. Also since some tasks are exclusively done by techs they know how to trouble shoot problems or figure out where something went wrong. Pharmacists know how cart exchange and pyxis works but they don't spend 5 hours a day doing this so if the RN calls pharmacist saying there is a problem the pharmacist has to figure it out. Seriously you need the techs on your side. Just the other day I was training at my retail internship and there was a newbie float pharmacist who kept asking the tech how **** works. If Sparda's techs keep passing annoying little phone calls on to him, I bet it's because they don't like him and don't want to give him a hand :laugh:
Click to expand...

"When I'm not here, you two are the supervisors." - Director talking to me and the other pharmacist.
 
pharmasaur said:
Ehhh no, the pharmacy director is the immediate supervisor NOT the pharmacists.
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The most ******ed comment yet... When I read this, I'm just like "whaaaaaaaa?". What pharmacy world did you come from?

I do get what you are trying to say tho. You just have a lot more to learn.
 
wucool33 said:
The most ******ed comment yet... When I read this, I'm just like "whaaaaaaaa?". What pharmacy world did you come from?

I do get what you are trying to say tho. You just have a lot more to learn.
Click to expand...

What he/she described is consistent with the hospital pharmacy environment where I worked. Pharmacists and techs had complementary, but parallel job duties, and each separate group reported directly to the pharmacy supervisor. Yes, the pharmacists would make requests of the technicians, but they were not the supervisors, nor did they direct tech workflow or evaluate the technicians. I never had any issues with techs, but perhaps it's because I'm polite and don't always insist on my own way because, "I'm the pharmacist!"
 
there should be some middle ground. if it's an established pharmacy and the techs have been doing their thing and the pharmacy has been running efficiently for years, there's no point in changing things up just to suit your benefits.
however, if the techs are a bunch of young bucks that are new hires, you should be able to tell them what you think is the best way to go.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
What he/she described is consistent with the hospital pharmacy environment where I worked. Pharmacists and techs had complementary, but parallel job duties, and each separate group reported directly to the pharmacy supervisor. Yes, the pharmacists would make requests of the technicians, but they were not the supervisors, nor did they direct tech workflow or evaluate the technicians. I never had any issues with techs, but perhaps it's because I'm polite and don't always insist on my own way because, "I'm the pharmacist!"
Click to expand...

Doing things the most comfortable for you doesn't mean you have to be a jackass about it. So the pharmacist doesn't have any say at your pharmacy? Even if the director is not there? That's weird. Besides, what sparda described are pretty normal, like screening calls and stuff. Those are all things a good tech should be doing, he shouldn't have to consistently ask for it. If aparda isn't comfortable with the workflow, mistakes will happen more often. Guess who really suffers in the end?
 
wucool33 said:
Doing things the most comfortable for you doesn't mean you have to be a jackass about it. So the pharmacist doesn't have any say at your pharmacy? Even if the director is not there? That's weird. Besides, what sparda described are pretty normal, like screening calls and stuff. Those are all things a good tech should be doing, he shouldn't have to consistently ask for it. If aparda isn't comfortable with the workflow, mistakes will happen more often. Guess who really suffers in the end?
Click to expand...

It was a busy place. There were usually 6 to 8 pharmacists and 10 or so technicians working concurrently, on parallel but related duties. Sure, any of the pharmacists was able to make requests of the technicians to optimize workflow, but "drop your responsibilities and do what I want you to do and ONLY in the way I want it done," isn't a reasonable expectation. Everyone has a job to do.
 
One of the worst things is when a tech does something that gives the other departments in the hospitals expectations of pharmacy. We have this one morning tech who takes every chance to get out of the pharmacy by running medications over to the ER, and taking the code cart trays down to central supply. This is a morning tech.

Then we come on at 3pm. 3 hours later when there is only one technician, the ER is bitching about us not bringing meds over anymore (there is a dedicated medication runner the entire day, it's their job to run the meds, not the tech), and central supply is supposed to send someone to us to pick up the completed code carts, not the other way around.
 
wucool33 said:
Doing things the most comfortable for you doesn't mean you have to be a jackass about it. So the pharmacist doesn't have any say at your pharmacy? Even if the director is not there? That's weird. Besides, what sparda described are pretty normal, like screening calls and stuff. Those are all things a good tech should be doing, he shouldn't have to consistently ask for it. If aparda isn't comfortable with the workflow, mistakes will happen more often. Guess who really suffers in the end?
Click to expand...

seems like this is small hospital vs. large hospital difference. i work at 1,000 bed hospital that has >300 pharmacy staff and EVERYONE has their own strict schedule to follow. RNs know to cal the tech phone number if they are missing meds, have run out of stock of something, etc, and they know to call the pharmacist to hurry the f* up to verify something or have a clinical question. The only time I will call the pharmacist (or vice versa) is if an RN called us to do a task that is really the other's responsibility and we pass on the message (or the lazier route is to say, oh sorry that's the pharmacist u need, call this #). I pretty much do my own thing the whole day and sometimes have minimal/0 contact with the pharmacists....

we have a technician supervisor who reports to AOD who reports to DOP. I rarely see the DOP. pharmacists report to pharmacy supervisor who reports to AOD who reports to DOP.
 
pharmasaur said:
seems like this is small hospital vs. large hospital difference. i work at 1,000 bed hospital that has >300 pharmacy staff and EVERYONE has their own strict schedule to follow. RNs know to cal the tech phone number if they are missing meds, have run out of stock of something, etc, and they know to call the pharmacist to hurry the f* up to verify something or have a clinical question. The only time I will call the pharmacist (or vice versa) is if an RN called us to do a task that is really the other's responsibility and we pass on the message (or the lazier route is to say, oh sorry that's the pharmacist u need, call this #). I pretty much do my own thing the whole day and sometimes have minimal/0 contact with the pharmacists....

we have a technician supervisor who reports to AOD who reports to DOP. I rarely see the DOP. pharmacists report to pharmacy supervisor who reports to AOD who reports to DOP.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm at a 200 bed hospital with a pharmacy staff size of about 14 on a given day. DOP, clinical pharmacist, secretary, 5 pharmacists, and 3 techs in the morning and 2 pharmacists and 1 tech in the evening.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
It was a busy place. There were usually 6 to 8 pharmacists and 10 or so technicians working concurrently, on parallel but related duties. Sure, any of the pharmacists was able to make requests of the technicians to optimize workflow, but "drop your responsibilities and do what I want you to do and ONLY in the way I want it done," isn't a reasonable expectation. Everyone has a job to do.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree that would be unreasonable, but I don't think sparda would have created this thread if everybody at his work place were doing their job.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
It was a busy place. There were usually 6 to 8 pharmacists and 10 or so technicians working concurrently, on parallel but related duties. Sure, any of the pharmacists was able to make requests of the technicians to optimize workflow, but "drop your responsibilities and do what I want you to do and ONLY in the way I want it done," isn't a reasonable expectation. Everyone has a job to do.
Click to expand...

That's in the morning. The same rules don't apply to us in the evening.
 
This is how it seems to work in the morning.

From 7am to like 730 everyone stands around looking at the schedule. Then from 730-9 everyone has got to get breakfast and coffee. 10-20 orders later its 11am and time for the 1st pharmacist to go to lunch. Then you do a couple of phone calls and a few more orders and oh **** it's 2pm, 1 hour left gotta clean up and wait for the 3-11 shift to arrive, tell them your issues and go home with 30+ unverified orders.
 
Sparda29 said:
That's in the morning. The same rules don't apply to us in the evening.
Click to expand...
I would agree with that. I work evenings, and we have the exact same crew - 2 pharmacists and 1 tech. Responsibility is shared among everyone on the evening shift since there's minimal staffing.
 
Sparda,

Aside from your douchey tendencies, your hospital seems to have numerous systems level issues. You could greatly benefit from a QI consult 😉
 
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