Anyone else Interested in Psychiatry?

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When a new diabetes drug comes out, the number of people with diabetes stays the same. But when a new anti-depressant comes out, the number of people with depression goes UP. New drugs are supposed to reduce the instances of disease not make it go up.
 
When a new diabetes drug comes out, the number of people with diabetes stays the same. But when a new anti-depressant comes out, the number of people with depression goes UP. New drugs are supposed to reduce the instances of disease not make it go up.

You didn't answer the last question...

"How exactly do you know with your proclaimed certainty that imbalances don't exist?"
 
When a new diabetes drug comes out, the number of people with diabetes stays the same. But when a new anti-depressant comes out, the number of people with depression goes UP. New drugs are supposed to reduce the instances of disease not make it go up.

do you read any of this crap before you hit submit reply?

/serious question
 
Claiming that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance is unfalsifiable, meaning it cannot be proven to be false.

There is a difference between us being unable to prove something NOW, and being unable to ever prove anything at any point in the future. A few centuries ago you couldn't prove that diabetes wasn't caused by demon possession.
 
Claiming that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance is unfalsifiable, meaning it cannot be proven to be false.

Er... Yes it can. Both in clinical tests, logically, through animal models, etc.

I mean you're not even attacking psychiatry now, you're attacking modern neuroscience and neurology.
 
i hav no idea why this person is pre-med... they seem to have so much distain for the field
 
Yawn...

Anyway, to summarize what the OP originally inquired about...

OP,

Your degree doesn't matter all that much as long as you finish it out with an impressive GPA (especially if you're a non-science student). After you graduate from undergrad, I'd advise you to secure a job to pay bills, loans, etc. Once your good and comfortable in a job- which will hopefully be within a year or so from graduation- procure yourself a volunteer job at a local hospital to rack up community service time and learn about the healthcare field. Network with some physicians while at your volunteer post over a few months and ask about shadowing them to get an even more in depth understanding of what it's truly like to be a medical doctor. If you dig what's going on, find a post-bac program in your area and apply, attend and do well (if you have a solid undergrad GPA, and they see you've been involved in the medical community, you're in). Complete the program and strive to get some solid grades. This is all very do-able while being a math teacher part or full-time depending on how hungry your are to practice medicine. By this time, you'll be ready to apply to medical school, and with a little luck, be accepted into their program.

It's a bitch of a road to go down to finally matriculate from where you're currently standing, but easily attainable as long as you want it and are willing to put in the effort. Good luck.
 
There is a difference between us being unable to prove something NOW, and being unable to ever prove anything at any point in the future. A few centuries ago you couldn't prove that diabetes wasn't caused by demon possession.

I did not say that it cannot be proven to be true, I said that it cannot be proven to be false.
 
So why can't I start doing cocaine and just say pardon me judge but my serotonin is imbalanced?

I'm not saying mind altering substances are not real. It's just a different category from insulin, there is no correct chemical balance like there is a correct blood sugar balance.

I don't exactly know what your goal is posting negative things about specialties of medicine on these forums. Maybe it's just for attention in general. However, opinions like yours are not a new thing. Fear in general, and especially fear of the unknown, has led people to some pretty rash conclusions. People like you have in the past tried to discount the field of psychiatry. People like you have in the past tried to discount science in general, leading to suppression by the church and the killing of many great minds. People like you have been around for a while, and will continue to be around for even longer. My question to you would be "How could you be so ignorant?" but maybe you're just a little inexperienced. I will tell you that medicine has a component of art in addition to it's component of science, and not everything in mainstream medicine is as clear-cut as you probably think it is. Did you know there is no actual blood glucose level that defines hypoglycemia?

About psychiatry, I guess your argument is that the specialty is a sham because in other fields people's symptoms are more easily backed up by clear pathophysiology and hard objective evidence we can see on x-rays and blood tests... and in psychiatry people's symptoms and derangement from normal are backed up by nothing more than what they tell you, and things inside their mind can't be objectified. I bet you didn't realize that other fields of medicine are just like this. Howabout ALS, the most common disease of motor neurons... Do you know of any diagnostic tests or "scienctific" things we can do to diagnose it? Nope, me either, it's a purely clinical diagnosis, and in fact there are a certain amount of people who are told they have it and don't. So, on the lines of that, how do you explain a neuroloigal condition that takes place in the absence of any known organic cause after a huge life stressor and then spontaneously remits? The rest of us call this a psychiatric somatoform disorder, but what you YOU call it? Let me introduce to you the concept of the biopsychosocial model, the basis for the current thinking and practice in psychiatry, which you should look up. Your ideas are basically at the very least outdated in modern medicine. Do you read current research? Don't be so quick to say there is no way of quantifying or standardizing levels of serotonin if you don't actually know for sure, this type of jumping to conclusions makes you look foolish in life. Have you ever heard of hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA)? It's a breakdown product of serotonin used very much in clinical medicine, and recent research has associated decreased CSF levels of this substance very strongly to disorders of aggression and violent suicide. The elevation of levels of serotonin itself it also strongly linked to autism. These types of findings will continue to support psychiatry as a clinical science, and will hopefully fend off antagonistic minds like yours. The current state of insurance coverage for anything aside from drugs is absolutely sickening, and it is my hope that in the very near future our country will start to better support the treatment of people who really need psychiatric help, and they'll be able to even come close to affording appropriate care.

You clearly have never had anyone you care about in your life become afflicted with a psychiatric disorder. How could you be so blind to the existence of these types of problems?
 
I don't exactly know what your goal is posting negative things about specialties of medicine on these forums. Maybe it's just for attention in general. However, opinions like yours are not a new thing. Fear in general, and especially fear of the unknown, has led people to some pretty rash conclusions. People like you have in the past tried to discount the field of psychiatry. People like you have in the past tried to discount science in general, leading to suppression by the church and the killing of many great minds. People like you have been around for a while, and will continue to be around for even longer. My question to you would be "How could you be so ignorant?" but maybe you're just a little inexperienced. I will tell you that medicine has a component of art in addition to it's component of science, and not everything in mainstream medicine is as clear-cut as you probably think it is. Did you know there is no actual blood glucose level that defines hypoglycemia?

About psychiatry, I guess your argument is that the specialty is a sham because in other fields people's symptoms are more easily backed up by clear pathophysiology and hard objective evidence we can see on x-rays and blood tests... and in psychiatry people's symptoms and derangement from normal are backed up by nothing more than what they tell you, and things inside their mind can't be objectified. I bet you didn't realize that other fields of medicine are just like this. Howabout ALS, the most common disease of motor neurons... Do you know of any diagnostic tests or "scienctific" things we can do to diagnose it? Nope, me either, it's a purely clinical diagnosis, and in fact there are a certain amount of people who are told they have it and don't. So, on the lines of that, how do you explain a neuroloigal condition that takes place in the absence of any known organic cause after a huge life stressor and then spontaneously remits? The rest of us call this a psychiatric somatoform disorder, but what you YOU call it? Let me introduce to you the concept of the biopsychosocial model, the basis for the current thinking and practice in psychiatry, which you should look up. Your ideas are basically at the very least outdated in modern medicine. Do you read current research? Don't be so quick to say there is no way of quantifying or standardizing levels of serotonin if you don't actually know for sure, this type of jumping to conclusions makes you look foolish in life. Have you ever heard of hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA)? It's a breakdown product of serotonin used very much in clinical medicine, and recent research has associated decreased CSF levels of this substance very strongly to disorders of aggression and violent suicide. The elevation of levels of serotonin itself it also strongly linked to autism. These types of findings will continue to support psychiatry as a clinical science, and will hopefully fend off antagonistic minds like yours. The current state of insurance coverage for anything aside from drugs is absolutely sickening, and it is my hope that in the very near future our country will start to better support the treatment of people who really need psychiatric help, and they'll be able to even come close to affording appropriate care.

You clearly have never had anyone you care about in your life become afflicted with a psychiatric disorder. How could you be so blind to the existence of these types of problems?

👍
+1
 
Neurology does not use immoral force like psychiatry. Furthermore, there actually are cases of Parkinson's that have an unequivocal cause. Nothing like this is known for any mental disorder.

Parkinson's is a disease, but the patients annoying struggle to maintain independence is not a disease.
 
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Neurology does not use immoral force like psychiatry. Furthermore, there actually are cases of Parkinson's that have an unequivocal cause. Nothing like this is known for any mental disorder.

Parkinson's is a disease, but the patients annoying struggle to maintain independence is not a disease.

...........
**** you dude
 
...........
**** you dude

Ease up, I'm 99% sure he's a Scientologist. Psychiatry fundamentally contradicts Scientology as far as beliefs go, seeing the physical brain as something separate from emotions, personality, etc. They also believe mind altering drugs are very bad thetan/spirit. Scientologists acknowledge some of the governmental abuse and poor practicing in psychiatry in the past, but the church goes a step further and does a good deal of fear mongering. The idea of anyone being involuntarily committed and given drugs forcefully is nightmarish, because they reject the concept of a mental illness.

Here's an example.

One of my best friends is Scientologist so we spent a while arguing about it back in the day. I've heard it all before.
 
Neurology does not use immoral force like psychiatry. Furthermore, there actually are cases of Parkinson's that have an unequivocal cause. Nothing like this is known for any mental disorder.

Parkinson's is a disease, but the patients annoying struggle to maintain independence is not a disease.

Wut? Remember labotomies and ice picks through the eye socket to destroy brain matter? Neurology has definitely had dark days.
 
Neurology does not use immoral force like psychiatry. Furthermore, there actually are cases of Parkinson's that have an unequivocal cause. Nothing like this is known for any mental disorder.

No it's not, it's completely unfalsifiable! There's no way to prove that Parkinson is just a dopamine disorder and no one really knows how any of it works...



Parkinson's is a disease, but the patients annoying struggle to maintain independence is not a disease.

Please do not go into medicine, no seriously. You're unfit to work with people if you consider people's lives as nothing but annoying. It's almost completely anti-social.
 
Please do not go into medicine, no seriously. You're unfit to work with people if you consider people's lives as nothing but annoying. It's almost completely anti-social.

i agree.
and seriously i don't care if he is just 'trolling' or whatever. if being "anonymous" makes you act like a dickwad you are not going to act any better when put in a position of power.
 
Please do not go into medicine, no seriously. You're unfit to work with people if you consider people's lives as nothing but annoying. It's almost completely anti-social.

Show this thread to people in a mental hospital. Then ask who they would want their psychiatrist to be. Me or you. I think we both know who they'll choose.

The consumers of psychiatry have spoken and they are not happy. It needs to be all about the clients. Listen to the patient, heal not harm. Forgive not punish.
 
Show this thread to people in a mental hospital. Then ask who they would want their psychiatrist to be. Me or you. I think we both know who they'll choose.

The consumers of psychiatry have spoken and they are not happy. It needs to be all about the clients. Listen to the patient, heal not harm. Forgive not punish.

I think they'll choose the person who didn't just call their lives petty meaningless and annoying struggles for independence. Which are all fundamental attributes of ethics in medicine. So yes, don't just listen to the patient, actually value them. And no one is punishing anyone.

Also the hospital I work with is renown in my state for excellence and yet has a 7/50 rating for customer service with over 100-150 reviews. So yah.... the idiots and the dissatisfied are more vocal than those who are.

So really, you've proven what you're about. You're not someone fit to be a doctor, you don't really care how you affect people as long as your ideas and theories are validated.
 
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Show this thread to people in a mental hospital. Then ask who they would want their psychiatrist to be. Me or you. I think we both know who they'll choose.

The consumers of psychiatry have spoken and they are not happy. It needs to be all about the clients. Listen to the patient, heal not harm. Forgive not punish.

person with mental illness here
i pick serenade.
 
Yes but you are voluntary patient. You don't count.

WTF?
why do voluntary patients not count? patients are patients bro.
i really do not understand your position at all

okay you slightly changed your post. your whole being held against their will thing is a huge straw man argument.
 
Yes but you are voluntary patient. You don't count. I'm talking about people being held against their will.

1) How many people are actually forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation/treatment against their will?
2) Why were these people forced to undergo these things?
3) Why has your argument shifted from the biological paradigm flaws of psychiatry to voluntary v.s non-voluntary psychiatry?

The majority of psychiatric patients are voluntary. In the situation that it was involuntary there is an extreme likelihood for self-harm or harm to others. It would be unethical not to treat someone having psychiatric breakdown or schizophrenia or suicidality just as it would be unethical for someone not to treat a person having a heart attack.
 
1) How many people are actually forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation/treatment against their will?
2) Why were these people forced to undergo these things?
3) Why has your argument shifted from the biological paradigm flaws of psychiatry to voluntary v.s non-voluntary psychiatry?

Really the only time I can think of this type of thing happening is in prisons :shrug:
 
Really the only time I can think of this type of thing happening is in prisons :shrug:

If you're found outside while naked rolling around in the mud murmuring about how the Queen of England must sacrifice her Corgi so that Quatzelcotal will not rise from his subterranean lair. Well, you're going to be restrained and probably forced to take a psychiatric evaluation once it becomes evident whether or not your state is not the result of drugs. Because obviously you're not a case the police can deal with and you're also not safe to be left alone.
 
If you're found outside while naked rolling around in the mud murmuring about how the Queen of England must sacrifice her Corgi so that Quatzelcotal will not rise from his subterranean lair. Well, you're going to be restrained and probably forced to take a psychiatric evaluation once it becomes evident whether or not your state is not the result of drugs. Because obviously you're not a case the police can deal with and you're also not safe to be left alone.

word.
i'm starting to think that premed2014 is thinking if u present with signs of depression u will be restrained and be force-fed prozac or something...
 
I think they'll choose the person who didn't just call their lives petty meaningless and annoying struggles for independence. Which are all fundamental attributes of ethics in medicine. So yes, don't just listen to the patient, actually value them. And no one is punishing anyone.

Also the hospital I work with is renown in my state for excellence and yet has a 7/50 rating for customer service with over 100-150 reviews. So yah.... the idiots and the dissatisfied are more vocal than those who are.

So really, you've proven what you're about. You're not someone fit to be a doctor, you don't really care how you affect people as long as your ideas and theories are validated.

I never said it was meaningless and petty.

I don't care if my ideas are validated by psychiatrists. By the patients? Of course, that's the whole point now isn't it?
 
word.
i'm starting to think that premed2014 is thinking if u present with signs of depression u will be restrained and be force-fed prozac or something...

From what I understand Premed2014 was a former airplane pilot. They need to undergo psych evals every year or else they lose their license. He believes this is an infringement of his rights by the establishment. I guess he thinks letting on a suicidal pilot who doesn't feel like dying alone is good enough is better than having a few pilots lose their job.
 
If you're found outside while naked rolling around in the mud murmuring about how the Queen of England must sacrifice her Corgi so that Quatzelcotal will not rise from his subterranean lair. Well, you're going to be restrained and probably forced to take a psychiatric evaluation once it becomes evident whether or not your state is not the result of drugs. Because obviously you're not a case the police can deal with and you're also not safe to be left alone.

Being naked in public is a crime unless done as part of a naked bicycle group ride.
 
i mean he also compared working as a doc under ACA to being a slave...
 
I never said it was meaningless and petty.

I don't care if my ideas are validated by psychiatrists. By the patients? Of course, that's the whole point now isn't it?


Alright, tell me a little bit more about what you think will come about from receiving validation from your patients?
 
I never said it was meaningless and petty.

I don't care if my ideas are validated by psychiatrists. By the patients? Of course, that's the whole point now isn't it?

I don't understand how as a pre-med you can say objectively that the field of psychiatry is run by witch doctors and pseudoscience. You could at least get your MD bro.
 
Being naked in public is a crime unless done as part of a naked bicycle group ride.

He's now clothed, rolling around in the mud, and loudly chanting how Quatezelcotal and The Rabbit from Donnie Darko will give birth to Hitler and then put him into a time machine.
 
From what I understand Premed2014 was a former airplane pilot. They need to undergo psych evals every year or else they lose their license. He believes this is an infringement of his rights by the establishment. I guess he thinks letting on a suicidal pilot who doesn't feel like dying alone is good enough is better than having a few pilots lose their job.

No. That was a proposal to require mandatory psychological testing every 6 months or a year that I was against.
 
Alright, tell me a little bit more about what you think will come about from receiving validation from your patients?

Validation is a poor word. Happiness with treatment/services is of most importance.

Validation of my services per se not my ideas
 
He's now clothed, rolling around in the mud, and loudly chanting how Quatezelcotal and The Rabbit from Donnie Darko will give birth to Hitler and then put him into a time machine.

Am I the only one who thinks that thing is scary as hell? - the rabbit, stupid thing won't bold for me
 
Validation is a poor word. Happiness with treatment/services is of most importance.

Validation of my services per se not my ideas


And how do you measure happiness? Momentary happiness? Longitudinal successfulness of your treatment?
Either way your client to exercise more often and cut down on sugary fatty foods and tell me how their happiness level is with you.
 
And how do you measure happiness? Momentary happiness? Longitudinal successfulness of your treatment?
Either way your client to exercise more often and cut down on sugary fatty foods and tell me how their happiness level is with you.

yea I can tell them to exercise, they don't have to listen though.
 
And when they come back pissed that they need to get their left leg cut off? Do you think they'll be happy?

not sure what this is asking. I think people who want their limbs removed should be allowed to have a physician do it for them since it can be done more accurately and safely in a hospital by a trained professional.

Sex change operations are now accepted, why not limb removal?
 
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