Anyone else with pre-med parent woes? (Just venting...)

[wecandoitifwetry]

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I want to preface this by saying that I'm really not trying to sound like a jerk or privileged or whatever in this post...I really just want to vent. Or get advice? Or both? Will delete later.

Ok, so I was a straight A+ student in high school, but in college--long story short, I didn't do very well in my science prereqs freshman and sophomore year. sGPA freshman year was a 3.25, and sophomore year it was a 3.00. I know that this probably sounds horribly entitled right of the bat, as I know that it could be a lot worse, but in my family, Bs and B-'s are catastrophic. Anyway, I had been going through depressive episodes and a lot of self-doubt during this period, which contributed to a complete loss of motivation (100% not an excuse, by the way; I know you have to be tough minded throughout med school. Just telling it like it is). My grades disappointed my parents horribly, to the point that they barely wanted to look at me when I got home. Besides the fact that I thought I had ruined my chances at medical school, that was the worst. Changed the entire family dynamic and all I wanted to do was get out of the house and go back to school. I went into junior year hoping to be able to fix things and came out with A-'s in my science classes. I'd wanted solid As, of course, but I was pretty happy about the improvement. Nevertheless, it kind of all evaporated afterward when during a heated (unrelated) conversation, my dad told me that I should have gotten As. He's never confirmed this verbally, but I think that he'd done some research about the sGPAs and cGPAs needed to get into "good" (which I think means top-tier) medical schools, and does not believe that getting A-'s is a high enough upward trend.

So this semester (senior fall), even though I had actually finished all of my prereqs by this point, I chose two science classes. I guess I should also add that I'm not a science major (a fact which got me some very interesting looks when I told people in one of the classes my major, since the class in question is apparently pretty notorious for its difficulty and is, according to my TA, is one of the toughest classes in the department! Didn't know that going in). I knew that it was going to be challenging when I chose the classes, because they were upper-level and I'd had difficulties with science courses in the past. But I really wanted to prove to myself that I could work hard and get my head around complex scientific concepts and wasn't only good at the humanities, which is of course a must for med school. And yes, I wanted As. I wanted to prove to myself and my parents that I could get As again. And in any case, my dad said he expected As from me.

Anyway, I'm just finishing up finals, and today I got a notification of my final grade from one of my science professors. A-. And I think that in the other science class I'm also going to get an A-, as long as the final exam went well, which I feel it did. On the one hand I feel like I should be really happy and proud of myself. I worked really, really hard this semester. But I'm honestly feeling really down. I don't know what my parents, particularly my dad, will say. The last thing I've ever wanted to do is disappoint him, and even if he's relatively ok with it, I feel like there's going to be that unspoken thing in the background. Or worse, he'll ask me what happened, and I'll have to feel like a loser and try to explain, which I can't. I tried my best.

Basically I just want to know what anyone else who is/has been in this sort of situation does about it? And if there are any admissions people out there reading this, is the difference between an A and an A- really a big deal? What should I say?

p.s. I know that on paper (er...screen?) this makes my parents seem like enormous jerks, but they're not. They made huge sacrifices for me to get support and resources during high school and for me to be going to college now. I think they feel like I disrespected them by doing so badly my first two years, which I think is true. And on the whole they are extremely loving people and parents. But really, they were just so, so disappointed, and they couldn't help acting distant.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I mean, I think you already know that there's not a major difference between As and A-s in terms of medical school admissions. Your upward trend will be looked at favorably when it comes time to apply. Your dad isn't an admissions committee member and it sounds like he doesn't really know what he's talking about.

But that of course sidesteps what I think is the larger issue. What do YOU think of your progress? Who are you doing all this for?

So, a serious question for you: do you actually want to be a doctor? You've spent a few paragraphs outlining your parents' expectations, but you didn't say what your goals are and what you want to do. I'm curious why that is.

Edit: lots of parents make massive, life altering sacrifices to get their kids through college. But your parents are adults, and their sacrifice doesn't excuse their inability to control their emotions because you got a couple Bs while you were still getting acclimated to college. You've normalized and internalized their behavior, and that makes me sad for you. This situation sounds like it's causing you a lot of understandable distress, and I think you should consider talking to your counseling center at school about this. They might be able to help you contextualize your parents' behavior. Sorry you're going through this.

 

[WrenchesToMD]

In all honesty, it disgusts me that parents treat their children this way. It sounds like you worked your a** off OP to make improvements for yourself, and that's awesome.

Echoing from the above statement, I would take some time to get yourself in a better situation in life and really think about what it is you feel called to do. To be completely honest, if you still live with your parents, I would look into leaving the nest and exploring life for your own enrichment and well-being.

They made huge sacrifices for me to get support and resources during high school and for me to be going to college now

It honestly sounds like they did this more for themselves than you.

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

I want to preface this by saying that I'm really not trying to sound like a jerk or privileged or whatever in this post...I really just want to vent. Or get advice? Or both? Will delete later.

Ok, so I was a straight A+ student in high school, but in college--long story short, I didn't do very well in my science prereqs freshman and sophomore year. sGPA freshman year was a 3.25, and sophomore year it was a 3.00. I know that this probably sounds horribly entitled right of the bat, as I know that it could be a lot worse, but in my family, Bs and B-'s are catastrophic. Anyway, I had been going through depressive episodes and a lot of self-doubt during this period, which contributed to a complete loss of motivation (100% not an excuse, by the way; I know you have to be tough minded throughout med school. Just telling it like it is). My grades disappointed my parents horribly, to the point that they barely wanted to look at me when I got home. Besides the fact that I thought I had ruined my chances at medical school, that was the worst. Changed the entire family dynamic and all I wanted to do was get out of the house and go back to school. I went into junior year hoping to be able to fix things and came out with A-'s in my science classes. I'd wanted solid As, of course, but I was pretty happy about the improvement. Nevertheless, it kind of all evaporated afterward when during a heated (unrelated) conversation, my dad told me that I should have gotten As. He's never confirmed this verbally, but I think that he'd done some research about the sGPAs and cGPAs needed to get into "good" (which I think means top-tier) medical schools, and does not believe that getting A-'s is a high enough upward trend.

So this semester (senior fall), even though I had actually finished all of my prereqs by this point, I chose two science classes. I guess I should also add that I'm not a science major (a fact which got me some very interesting looks when I told people in one of the classes my major, since the class in question is apparently pretty notorious for its difficulty and is, according to my TA, is one of the toughest classes in the department! Didn't know that going in). I knew that it was going to be challenging when I chose the classes, because they were upper-level and I'd had difficulties with science courses in the past. But I really wanted to prove to myself that I could work hard and get my head around complex scientific concepts and wasn't only good at the humanities, which is of course a must for med school. And yes, I wanted As. I wanted to prove to myself and my parents that I could get As again. And in any case, my dad said he expected As from me.

Anyway, I'm just finishing up finals, and today I got a notification of my final grade from one of my science professors. A-. And I think that in the other science class I'm also going to get an A-, as long as the final exam went well, which I feel it did. On the one hand I feel like I should be really happy and proud of myself. I worked really, really hard this semester. But I'm honestly feeling really down. I don't know what my parents, particularly my dad, will say. The last thing I've ever wanted to do is disappoint him, and even if he's relatively ok with it, I feel like there's going to be that unspoken thing in the background. Or worse, he'll ask me what happened, and I'll have to feel like a loser and try to explain, which I can't. I tried my best.

Basically I just want to know what anyone else who is/has been in this sort of situation does about it? And if there are any admissions people out there reading this, is the difference between an A and an A- really a big deal? What should I say?

p.s. I know that on paper (er...screen?) this makes my parents seem like enormous jerks, but they're not. They made huge sacrifices for me to get support and resources during high school and for me to be going to college now. I think they feel like I disrespected them by doing so badly my first two years, which I think is true. And on the whole they are extremely loving people and parents. But really, they were just so, so disappointed, and they couldn't help acting distant.

I went through a similar situation, not necessarily with grades, but just about everything else. My advice is to stop trying to please your parents- you dont have to go all soft metal grunge on them, and definitely go at your own pace but I think you need to detangle your parent’s expectations of yourself from your own. Its hard to Live your life based on their standard rather than your own, esp because it will never end- there will always be something they have an opinion on, but what matters is how you feel about yourself and your journey.

 

[wecandoitifwetry]

So, a serious question for you: do you actually want to be a doctor? You've spent a few paragraphs outlining your parents' expectations, but you didn't say what your goals are and what you want to do. I'm curious why that is.

Hi Janet, thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't talk about this because it wasn't quite what the post was about, and I was already getting pretty long-winded. :/ But yes, I really want to be a doctor! It was my idea, not theirs (My dad actually always used to say I would be a great lawyer, since I do a lot of writing, but I've stuck with medicine). I've put a good deal of thought towards other professions, too, including the public health path, since I want to work with underserved populations. But at the end of the day I want to provide the services that doctors do--helping people understand what might be going wrong in their bodies, and having the steps, resources, and knowledge to help them to become healthy, whatever that means to them (and on a secondary level, puzzling out a diagnosis, possible treatment pathways, etc. appeals to me as well).

 

[wecandoitifwetry]

Thank you for your reply, Wrenches.

I would look into leaving the nest and exploring life for your own enrichment and well-being.

I agree with this. Trying to work out housing options out-of state right now. I feel like I need to spread my wings a bit. 🙂

It honestly sounds like they did this more for themselves than you.

As I said, unfortunately, it's hard to express the full detail and scope of offline relationships on an online forum. That's really not the kind of people that they are. My dad would eat broken glass if it would benefit me, same with my mom. But now I guess I'm kind of realizing that now that I've put it in words...I don't know to what extent he knows that he's had this effect on me. I've never talked to him about it. He doesn't know that I was depressed, either. I never knew how to bring it up.

 

[wecandoitifwetry]

I went through a similar situation, not necessarily with grades, but just about everything else. My advice is to stop trying to please your parents- you dont have to go all soft metal grunge on them, and definitely go at your own pace but I think you need to detangle your parent’s expectations of yourself from your own. Its hard to Live your life based on their standard rather than your own, esp because it will never end- there will always be something they have an opinion on, but what matters is how you feel about yourself and your journey.

Thank you. 🙂

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Hi Janet, thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't talk about this because it wasn't quite what the post was about, and I was already getting pretty long-winded. :/ But yes, I really want to be a doctor! It was my idea, not theirs (My dad actually always used to say I would be a great lawyer, since I do a lot of writing, but I've stuck with medicine). I've put a good deal of thought towards other professions, too, including the public health path, since I want to work with underserved populations. But at the end of the day I want to provide the services that doctors do--helping people understand what might be going wrong in their bodies, and having the steps, resources, and knowledge to help them to become healthy, whatever that means to them (and on a secondary level, puzzling out a diagnosis, possible treatment pathways, etc. appeals to me as well).

I’m very happy to hear that this is what you want. I didn’t see you share your current GPAs, but if you’ve been having 3.7+ semesters after your sophomore year, you should be in good shape.

Keep doing the best you can for you and try not to let your dad (or anyone else for that matter) get in your head. You cannot control how your dad is going to respond to your A-, but you can control how you respond to him. Seek a neutral party for help with this, if necessary.

You’re going to be on your own soon, and frankly, it sounds like that’s going to be a healthy transition. I hope that, when you’ve been accepted to medical school, you can sit down with your parents and have an adult conversation about their freezing you out over your (still pretty good!) grades and how much that hurt you. Hopefully they will hear you and try to make things right with you.

 

[wecandoitifwetry]

I’m very happy to hear that this is what you want. I didn’t see you share your current GPAs, but if you’ve been having 3.7+ semesters after your sophomore year, you should be in good shape.

Keep doing the best you can for you and try not to let your dad (or anyone else for that matter) get in your head. You cannot control how your dad is going to respond to your A-, but you can control how you respond to him. Seek a neutral party for help with this, if necessary.

You’re going to be on your own soon, and frankly, it sounds like that’s going to be a healthy transition. I hope that, when you’ve been accepted to medical school, you can sit down with your parents and have an adult conversation about their freezing you out over your (still pretty good!) grades and how much that hurt you. Hopefully they will hear you and try to make things right with you.

Thank you Janet! You have been very empathetic. I actually feel much better now, which I wasn't quite sure I would after posting this. I'm going to think of the A-'s as a positive, no matter how any future conversations about it go down.

 

[Goro]

I want to preface this by saying that I'm really not trying to sound like a jerk or privileged or whatever in this post...I really just want to vent. Or get advice? Or both? Will delete later.


A

You have to be able to draw boundaries, especially with toxic behavior. Getting on your case for not having perfect grades is toxic, period. At some point, if you can't tune them out, then you'll have to point out that you're the one trying to get into med school, not them. And your grades are a reflection on their parenting, either.

 

[crepuscular.ray]

I won't quote your post because it seems like you don't want this info to stay up. It seems like your parents want the best for you, but they're using a proxy for your success that isn't realistic, which ends up hurting you. I've been in a similar situation, as someone whose parents came from very little and excelled through education. My parents bribed me with money to get good grades starting from middle school, and I cried the first time I got a B+ in highschool. Going through college and losing a parent, I realized that they were just trying to give me the best opportunities they could. Moving away from home was the best thing I could have done, because it helped me become independent and find my own definition of success.

 

[emergentmd]

I am 1st Gen immigrant, so I know the unrealistic pressure but it typically comes from a good place.

But the bottom line is you are an adult and able to make your own decisions.

If you really want to break this cycle, you can't expect them to change.

If they are paying for your school, books, living expenses then unfortunately they have the right to do what they are doing. I am not saying it is right. But I see too many adults want the parents money but also want to make all of the decisions in life. It doesn't work that way.

I know an adult that borrowed 6 figures form their parents and when they parents questioned his spending said, "I am an adult and can do what I want with my Money" HUH?

If they are not supporting you in any way, then have a tough talk. Tell them you are an adult, financially supporting yourself, and thus able to make your own decisions.

Its sometimes hard to break the money chains but if you truly want independence, this sometimes is required. You can't always have the best of both worlds. I am a laid back parent and truly just want my kids to be happy. But if I am spending $25K-50K/yr and they are majoring in Russian studies, they may be unhappy to hear that I do not approve and will not fund their Russian Studies PHD.

Again, I think your parents are crazy as described but I don't see what they are doing is wrong if they are paying for your expenses/schooling.

 

[Spiceupyourlife]

I feel you. First gen college student/graduated and first gen immigrant on my maternal side. My mom takes pride in being a "tiger mom." So, I get it. I'll try to keep it short. At the end of the day, you have to be able to be happy with what YOU have accomplished and be proud of YOU. Of course you want it from your parents, but when it's toxic energy, you have to focus on the positives you know to be true about yourself. If you feed into what they say and you're out here busting your butt in and outside the classroom, you'll never feel good about yourself and then you'll start believing the negatives. So keep your head up! You're doing great.

P.S. GO YOU FOR GETTING THAT A-. WE LIKE THOSE, TOO! PROUD OF YOU

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I am an immigrant parent and I feel sorry for the position you are in. Seems like given your success in HS they expected same in college and were disappointed. Hang in there and they will get it over. Explain to them that you are trying your level best and going to medical school was your choice and you will get there. Your dad is probably right about A-s in junior year are not good enough since your GPA is close to 3.0 but come up with a plan and explain to him. GL!

 

[HopeP]

OP I can relate situation somewhat as other side of aisle, parent. If you happened to be my son, I apologize for my actions that causes you such a pain. Learning never ends. I thank you from bottom of my heart to speak up, which is not just helping kids, but many of us grown ups here as well. Sometimes another grown up sibling can help to bridge the communication gap as immigrant parents from non-medical field are highly likely lack knowledge (that is not a defense for a parent action/behavior, rather how you bring them to that level of information gradually, kinda parenting in other direction)

 

[wecandoitifwetry]

I’m very happy to hear that this is what you want. I didn’t see you share your current GPAs, but if you’ve been having 3.7+ semesters after your sophomore year, you should be in good shape.

Also, my overall GPA is around a 3.6 at the moment, just trying to keep it there.

 

[WrenchesToMD]

As I said, unfortunately, it's hard to express the full detail and scope of offline relationships on an online forum. That's really not the kind of people that they are. My dad would eat broken glass if it would benefit me, same with my mom. But now I guess I'm kind of realizing that now that I've put it in words...I don't know to what extent he knows that he's had this effect on me. I've never talked to him about it. He doesn't know that I was depressed, either. I never knew how to bring it up.

I completely understand and agree that it's challenging to convey the whole scenario when you only have words to convey the message. From reading your other posts, it seems like you're doing a lot of great things for yourself. I think your GPA is still in great shape, for both MD and DO.

I don't know if you've mentioned taking some time for yourself to explore life, find your passions, and look more into whether becoming a physician is what you truly want, but take your time. Many wise ADCOM members always remind us that medical schools aren't going anywhere, and you certainly won't be "too old" if you wait some time.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I’ll have to disagree with you there. Nothing in life is black and white. My parents did this and I’m glad they did because of my current success. (There is a reason why so many of us immigrants are so successful.) It’s all about how you do it. You can be vigilant with your kids without doing bad things like calling them names if they get an A-. But you better believe I’m going to be doing the same thing if I believe my kids are performing less than what they are capable of.

Nice to here from a successful immigrant child who appreciates parents 🙂

 

[Goro]

I’ll have to disagree with you there. Nothing in life is black and white. My parents did this and I’m glad they did because of my current success. (There is a reason why so many of us immigrants are so successful.) It’s all about how you do it. You can be vigilant with your kids without doing bad things like calling them names if they get an A-. But you better believe I’m going to be doing the same thing if I believe my kids are performing less than what they are capable of.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I see the results of Tiger Parenting. Their kids are successful, AND miserable.

These are one who most likely to burn out or get depressed because they don't live up to unrealistic expectations. They view their grades as affirmations of their personhood, and live in constant dread of disappointing their parents.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

I am pretty glad that my parents aren't too overbearing. One time I responded to a call where a daughter called 911 saying that her mom committed suicide and her dad was also about to. The daughter said that this happened after she didn't do well on some test for a class needed for med school. Of course the parents were lying and I have never been more satisfied watching a cop just absolutely yell at someone with full anger. I always felt so bad for her. Do you honestly think that this type of pressure and bull**** will make your kid magically get better grades? Hire them a tutor or something jfc.

 

[Goro]

The one thing that tiger parents don’t care about is interest. I think that’s wrong. If I saw my kid was good at something other than school and wanted to pursue it (like for example if they were brilliant at art or music) I wouldn’t care as much about grades. But until I see something like that... grades is what they get. My life became easier later on because of this attitude early on. Having a 4.0 meant I had a full college scholarship, which meant paying for med school was easier, which meant no huge financial burden as a resident, which meant more financial freedom as an attending.

But to me, I’d rather be successful and miserable than unsuccessful and happy. (Successful and happy is best, but sometimes you have to choose....) You can deal with the happiness deficit later, as I did, with hobbies and friends and therapy. Fixing lack of success later in life is very hard.

One can still be successful and happy without having one's parent's try to fulfill their lives through yours.

And as a parent, I can tell you that sometimes one has to let their kids fail on their own.

 

[Spiceupyourlife]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I see the results of Tiger Parenting. Their kids are successful, AND miserable.

These are one who most likely to burn out or get depressed because they don't live up to unrealistic expectations. They view their grades as affirmations of their personhood, and live in constant dread of disappointing their parents.

Story of my life. Thank God for therapy and personal growth.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

One can still be successful and happy without having one's parent's try to fulfill their lives through yours.

And as a parent, I can tell you that sometimes one has to let their kids fail on their own.

I don’t disagree. That wasn’t the case with my parents. They are both physicians. They didn’t need to fulfill anything through me. They just wanted me to succeed. Which I did.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Not all parents are same. I participate as a parent and it's assumed by most that I am an overbearing parent and controlling my kid. I have successful career and my spouse is a speciality chief at a big hospital chain, so we are not trying to fulfill anything thru our child. We didn't ask our son to go to medical school. I would like to know about education system myself and help my son achieve his goals. In middle and HS schools parents participation is expected in events like speech and debate, Robotics etc as judges and that's how I got involved. One of the things I as a judge always looked was to see if the kids did the work or parents did. Some question why I am involved why I am still involved since he is an adult. I see this whole medical school admission process as a complex system and lot of conflicting information. Yes, his school has an excellent premed office but he hears conflicting and sometimes dangerous information (like it's worth doing one week service under gunmen protection in a 3rd world country) so I come here to ask questions and give my input, but I also like to debate with strangers 🙂

I do see some parents setting undue expectations and being very tough on kids and one kid I know died and it's suspected that kid committed suicide due to parental pressures. Good number of kids have transition (from HS to college) issues either due to going to an easier HS or loose focus in first year due to sudden freedom in college and that causes severe disappointment to parents and some don't react (well, but most parents will come around and help the kids. However most immigrant parents go to any extent to help their kids succeed.