Anyone get any pain fellowship interviews yet?

[VentdependenT]

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Rush has started interviews.

They typically offer 2 spots to folks from the graduating CA-3 class inhouse. Leaving 2 spots open for the outside pool.

 

[paingal]

i am in the same boat, 20 applications, only 3 interviews. just curious, when did you hear from northwestern? they won't even acknowledge that the received my application.

heard from them via email about 1 week ago

most places haven't even acknowledged that they've received my application - I think I'm going to start contacting everyone just to follow up

 

[axm397]

Northwestern via email

U of Michigan via email

MD Anderson via email

Spaulding via email

So - so far: UCLA(PM&R), UPenn, Northwestern, U of Michigan, MD Anderson, Spaulding, and Oregon.

 

[painkiller1]

Thanks again FLK1 for sharing your experience regarding responding to less desired position offers. I am in a similar situation now. I have not even heard from all of the programs that I have applied to, but I am pretty sure that I have already interviewed at the program that will be my top choice; I don't expect to hear from them for at least another month or longer. I was just offered a spot at another program, which I figure I am going to have to turn down.

My question to you is when you turned down your first offer and were waiting to hear from your first choice program, where you going soley on faith or were you pretty sure (based on your interview) that your first choice was going to eventually offer you a spot? In other words, was it purely faith or something a little more concrete?

Thanks.

 

[ampaphb]

Thanks again FLK1 for sharing your experience regarding responding to less desired position offers. I am in a similar situation now. I have not even heard from all of the programs that I have applied to, but I am pretty sure that I have already interviewed at the program that will be my top choice; I don't expect to hear from them for at least another month or longer. I was just offered a spot at another program, which I figure I am going to have to turn down.

My question to you is when you turned down your first offer and were waiting to hear from your first choice program, where you going soley on faith or were you pretty sure (based on your interview) that your first choice was going to eventually offer you a spot? In other words, was it purely faith or something a little more concrete?

Thanks.

Boy, that is a real act of faith I would not do.

Personally, I would call my first choice program, explain the facts, and see if they might be able to give you an answer, rather than just relying on your impression that they are going to offer you that spot.

You can see why I felt so strongly about a match, and why I feel the response of the AAP, AAPM&R, et al are so inadequate. Otherwise you are put in the position you face today.

As a resident, I was firmly in axm's camp on the be careful who you screw over theory of accepting your second choice, but the more I think about it now, they have no problem stringing you along until it is good for them, or alternatively, just want to get it over, and as a result, make their decisions ridiculously early. In either event, you have no power.

Two good friends of mine accepted fellowships early in the season last year (one in California, one in Georgia), but ultimately decided they wanted something different, and so chose to switch to other fellowship programs (Houston and PA, respectively). There was a little hubub, but at the end of the day, they both are incredibly happy with the places they ended up, and THAT is, IMHO, all that really matters.

 

[FLK 1]

My question to you is when you turned down your first offer and were waiting to hear from your first choice program, where you going soley on faith or were you pretty sure (based on your interview) that your first choice was going to eventually offer you a spot? In other words, was it purely faith or something a little more concrete?

Thanks.

I’d say it was somewhere in between. I’d had a favorable interview, and felt that I’d made a good impression when rotating there, but was very aware of the strong applicant pool. I think they ended up interviewing about 12 people per spot. More than anything, my decision was based on a very strong desire to be at one particular program because I’d been there and liked the way they do things. Signing an early contract with anyone else was something I just couldn’t do, because I didn’t want to have to back out of it later. And no program director will let you stall for seven weeks.

In this competitive environment, no one can be faulted for accepting their first offer…especially if you are not dead-set on one specific program. If you don’t have a good reason to think that you will be selected over the hundred other candidates, and your decision to turn down an offer is based solely on your desire to go to another specific program, then there’s a good chance you’ll be disappointed. What I did may not be the right decision for everyone, but it was for me.

 

[axm397]

Agree with amphaphb that you should call your 1st choice program and tell them you have an offer - to try to gauge where you stand with them. I've seen many ppl get offers from their top choice program by expressing interest and telling them that they have another offer.

I also think that if you put in a "good faith" effort to do the right thing and have a good relationship with the fellowship directors, you can get out of verbal agreements. However, it's the person who has an attitude that he/she is "entitled" to the best position and doesn't care who he/she has to **** to get there is the one who leaves a bad impression and will be talked about for years to come and may even have issues when it comes to future employment. I've seen residents who took a position at program A outside of the match who then try to go on to find a position at another program without telling program A - if you are discrete, it's fine - but many PDs - mine included - would get VERY upset if they found out. Same thing with fellowship - if you already took a position at a fellowship program and you are still shopping around, it may get back to the original fellowship director. I've been to meetings with fellowship directors and antics of certain applicants were discussed and many fellowship directors and even the program coordinators knew the few applicants who stood out for trying to do some sneaky stuff.

I'm not that naive that I don't know how competitive it is out there and how the fellowship directors definitely have the advantage. i also know that there's some dirty stuff that people pull. I don't think the process will be improved in the near future - especially until the dust settles after all the ACGME requirement related changes. So I think ppl should do what they feel comfortable with - my comfort level may be different from other people - I just like to form personal relationships with people and screwing people over never seem to help make friends. it's that saying "don't **** in your backyard" - if you can foresee future interactions with fellowship directors and those associated with fellowships, then you probably shouldn't do anything you may regret later. If you are going to move out of that backyard and go play in another backyard (neurosurg, ortho, etc.) then perhaps, you can **** in your present backyard and get away with it. You're just making it difficult for future grads from your program - but then again, that doesn't necessarily effect you, so who cares, right?

 

[paingal]

my current program is not being very flexible in allowing me to interview for fellowhsip spots. How many interviews are a decent number to hopefully secure a spot?? I'm struggling, and although I hate to turn down ANY interviews, it looks like I'm going to have to...

 

[Ligament]

my current program is not being very flexible in allowing me to interview for fellowhsip spots. How many interviews are a decent number to hopefully secure a spot?? I'm struggling, and although I hate to turn down ANY interviews, it looks like I'm going to have to...

I'd strongly suggest that you bring this up with your department chairman and if he/she wont let you go on the interviews you need then go to the dean. This is becoming a very competitive specialty. To pass up on interviews is a big no no.

 

[ampaphb]

I'd strongly suggest that you bring this up with your department chairman and if he/she wont let you go on the interviews you need then go to the dean. This is becoming a very competitive specialty. To pass up on interviews is a big no no.

No program is obliged to let you off to interview - if it is important to you, use your vacation time

 

[ampaphb]

I also think that if you put in a "good faith" effort to do the right thing and have a good relationship with the fellowship directors, you can get out of verbal agreements. However, it's the person who has an attitude that he/she is "entitled" to the best position and doesn't care who he/she has to **** to get there is the one who leaves a bad impression and will be talked about for years to come and may even have issues when it comes to future employment. I've seen residents who took a position at program A outside of the match who then try to go on to find a position at another program without telling program A - if you are discrete, it's fine - but many PDs - mine included - would get VERY upset if they found out. Same thing with fellowship - if you already took a position at a fellowship program and you are still shopping around, it may get back to the original fellowship director. I've been to meetings with fellowship directors and antics of certain applicants were discussed and many fellowship directors and even the program coordinators knew the few applicants who stood out for trying to do some sneaky stuff.

I'm not that naive that I don't know how competitive it is out there and how the fellowship directors definitely have the advantage. i also know that there's some dirty stuff that people pull. I don't think the process will be improved in the near future - especially until the dust settles after all the ACGME requirement related changes. So I think ppl should do what they feel comfortable with - my comfort level may be different from other people - I just like to form personal relationships with people and screwing people over never seem to help make friends. it's that saying "don't **** in your backyard" - if you can foresee future interactions with fellowship directors and those associated with fellowships, then you probably shouldn't do anything you may regret later. If you are going to move out of that backyard and go play in another backyard (neurosurg, ortho, etc.) then perhaps, you can **** in your present backyard and get away with it. You're just making it difficult for future grads from your program - but then again, that doesn't necessarily effect you, so who cares, right?

While axm and I agree on some things, putting your personal future and happiness second to any other priority seems silly to me. You owe the field nothing. you owe your program nothing. you owe your fellow residents nothing. Why? Cause if you don't get the fellowship you were hoping for, none of those other parties will do anything for you, other than offer condolences that you now get to practice inpatient rehab

Loyalty is a luxury, and you will note the only people who preach it are the ones in positions where their futures are secured. Fellowship directors will screw you the first chance they get if a better applicant comes along. Until there is a pain-wide level playing field, accept the best offer you get, and then decide what's best for YOU.

 

[Disciple]

You owe the field nothing. you owe your program nothing. you owe your fellow residents nothing. Why? Cause if you don't get the fellowship you were hoping for, none of those other parties will do anything for you, other than offer condolences that you now get to practice inpatient rehab.

Sorry, I just got this picture in my head of a rejection letter that reads "We regret to inform you that you will likely be practicing in a high volume/call inpatient..."

Copy your post to the PM&R board.

I just want to see some of the responses.

 

[DigableCat]

Fellowship directors will screw you the first chance they get if a better applicant comes along.

I have never heard of a fellowship program offering a spot and then rescinding it because a better applicant comes along.

I reckon that would be bad business practice, not to mention F-ed up. Besides, I'd figure the quality(and number) of their applicant pool for the subsequent year would drop considerably, once word got out.

Even the most well known residency programs have problems filling at times.

 

[powermd]

I have never heard of a fellowship program offering a spot and then rescinding it because a better applicant comes along.

I reckon that would be bad business practice, not to mention F-ed up. Besides, I'd figure the quality(and number) of their applicant pool for the subsequent year would drop considerably, once word got out.

Even the most well known residency programs have problems filling at times.

There's a story that circulates around Columbia that we had an applicant a few years ago who was offered a spot at SLR. He signed the contract, and let go all his other offers. Later on SLR rescinded the spot and gave it to an internal applicant, thus leaving this guy totally screwed. I don't know if it's true, or if there were other complicating circumstances, but I didn't apply to SLR.

 

[Calilove]

Univ. of Virginia, Univ. of Maryland, Case Western, Univ of Cincinnati, Loyola, U of Chicago, Rush, MD Anderson, Univ. Texas Galveston...
Will probable end up cancelling a few due to scheduling conflicts.

 

[powermd]

That would be a mistake if you want to stay in New York City for your pain fellowship. 😎

Correctomundo. More important, I don't want to sign on for a fellowship, and have the program renege on ME.

 

[Dr. Ice]

As I go on fellowship interviews for the PM&R pain/spine, Im finding them to be some of the weirdest experiences I have ever had. I recently went on one that lasted about an hour and a half. It included 3 interviews with three different attendings in the practice, a quick tour of the place and that was it. On the other hand, Ive been on other interviews which have been 2 and 3 days long and you leave the place not having any idea what the hell the whole thing was about. It just seems so sketch to me. I have gone on 4 interviews now, and I still have no idea what to expect and no idea what the directors are looking for. Has anyone else had similar experiences, or is it just me?? Maybe should wear another suit or get some different ties!

 

[ampaphb]

As I go on fellowship interviews for the PM&R pain/spine, Im finding them to be some of the weirdest experiences I have ever had. I recently went on one that lasted about an hour and a half. It included 3 interviews with three different attendings in the practice, a quick tour of the place and that was it. On the other hand, Ive been on other interviews which have been 2 and 3 days long and you leave the place not having any idea what the hell the whole thing was about. It just seems so sketch to me. I have gone on 4 interviews now, and I still have no idea what to expect and no idea what the directors are looking for. Has anyone else had similar experiences, or is it just me?? Maybe should wear another suit or get some different ties!

Sounds to me EXACTLY like the real world, rather than the protected environment of academia - welcome to it

 

[texan]

Anyone have info on the following?


Univ. of Colorado PM&R Pain

 

[mid|ine]

I was offered an interview at OHSU and spoke with one of the fellows. Sounds like there are A LOT of interventions they don't do , even basic stuff,not to mention stims/pumps/ect... A friend interviewed there and felt the same way.

 

[foxtrot]

I was offered an interview at OHSU and spoke with one of the fellows. Sounds like there are A LOT of intervention, even basic stuff, they don't do, not to mention stims/pumps/ect... A friend interviewed there and felt the same way.

I also interviewed at OHSU and it seemed like they did not do a whole lot of procedures there and they took quite a bit of acute pain call also. The fellows seemed happy but it seemed like it was more medical managment rather than interventional.

 

[powermd]

OHSU has a high volume pain clinic somewhere off site that they do not send fellows to. I asked about this, and Sibell said there would be a legal problem with maintaining adequate supervision of fellows while keeping the pace of production high. Other programs do this successfully, and the fellows love it. I don't see why OHSU can't. Like others have commented, I was not impressed by the volume here. I couldn't get a straight answer out of the fellows or attendings on how many procedures they do per day at the VA. Not a good sign. They do seem to do a good variety of procedures, even if the numbers aren't high. The acute pain call (which you spend a quarter of your time doing) did not impress me. It might make sense if you really want to do significant anesthesia acute pain work when you're finished. Still, I'm not sure the volume of catheters you place was all that high. I do know the patient lists can be quite lengthy.

 

[clubdeac]

So just curious. I've interviewed at about 8 places so far and have only gotten a few rejections and no offers. Should I be freaking out?!?!?😕

 

[TheAssMan]

Anyone have info on the following?

Virginia Mason in Seattle
Oregon Health Sciences Univ.
Univ. of Colorado PM&R Pain
Spaulding Pain
Northwestern PM&R Pain
Univ of Michigan PM&R/Anesthesiology Pain
Cornell/MSK Pain
Beth Israel NYC

Any info is appreciated.

Cornell MSK/Pain info:

http://analgesia.home.att.net/timbo.html